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Inge or Crede?

As I see it, third base is the biggest concern for the tribe in 08. Blake's defense is horrible and he is not getting any younger. Marte could be good defensively, but I've seen alot of balls eat him up, and he is never going to hit.

The white sox may be looking to dump Crede, and the tigers may want to trade Inge. Both of these guys would be huge upgrades defensively (especially Inge), and the tribe may have 3 groundball starting pitchers. Both haven't hit much recently (and will never hit for average), but they both have power. Is there anyway the tribe can get one of these guys? I think they can be had cheaply, and possibly even cheaper as the season progresses (and one or both of them is stuck on the bench). Probably the best thing to do is wait, hope 3B isn't a disaster, and be ready to act.  

I know teams don't like to deal with division rivals. Have teams ever used another team as an intermediary to get around this (e.g. the tigers trade Inge to the pirates, who turn around and deal him to the tribe)? Poor defense was a big reason for the poor 06, I'd hate to see it again in 08.  

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Re: Inge or Crede?
Poor defense was the reasons for a poor 2006? I'm guessing horrible luck (+88 run diff) and a gawd awful bullpen had nothing to do with it?

by crazymoloh on Mar 14, 2008 11:31 AM EDT   0 recs

Re: Inge or Crede?
He said it was a reason, not the reason.

Our infield defense was atrocious at all four positions, especially in the first half, and that absolutely cost us dearly.  Not only did we give up more runs as a direct result, but our starters left games significantly earlier, putting extra strain on the bullpen.  There's a good argument that the infield defense basically delivered the death blow to a bullpen that was already scuffling.

The bullpen appears at first glance to be the biggest problem with the 2006 squad, but the bullpen did not have a spillover effect on the infield defense, while the infield defense most definitely had a spillover effect on the bullpen.

I'm stressing the infield because our outfield defense generally was very good and in fact had no weak spots, while the infield defense was below-average to awful at all four positions.  Victor also had his problems that season, but the effect was miniscule compared to the other four.

by Jay on Mar 14, 2008 11:48 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Inge or Crede?
So is LGT switching over to the new SB Nation platform like McCovey Chronicles?

by crazymoloh on Mar 14, 2008 12:01 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Inge or Crede?
Yes, but I expect it will be a few more months.  That is the third site to be moved and we tentatively are 8th in line, that is, we're now 5th.  We have high priority because of our heavy Comments traffic, but they have some purely logistical reasons to move the other seven sites first.  I expect it'll be at least another couple of months before we switch.

The new format has been extremely well received overall.  It doesn't address every possible complaint, but it is a big improvement.  "Reply to This" really is much nicer to use, and I think the inclusion of (tastefully tiny) avatars is nice, too.  The flag/recommend feature is nice, again, not overdone, and I know everyone will be relieved to have FanShots, which are basically mini-Diaries for posting a link or picture.

It's good stuff, I'm looking forward to it.

by Jay on Mar 14, 2008 12:17 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Inge or Crede?
Actually, it may be a little sooner than that.

by Jay on Mar 14, 2008 12:44 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Inge or Crede?
I have no interest in Crede, especially at the extortionate price the White Sox would ask for him from a division rival.

While I have always loved Brandon Inge as a player (I'm a sucker for a flashy infield glove, esp. at 3B), he's due ~$19MM over the next 3 seasons and he doesn't hit. Pass.

Looks to me like we're going to get through another year with Blake at 3B, with the FO hoping that Marte forces their hand at some point. And if he doesn't, we'll still have options in 2009 -- bring back Blake as an FA, try Marte (again), move Peralta to 3B, or hand the job to a kid like Hodges or Mills. Point being, we absolutely don't need to panic and overpay for a "name" like Crede or Inge.

by mrich on Mar 14, 2008 11:37 AM EDT   0 recs

Re: Inge or Crede?
Yeah Inge's contract is big, but that is one of the reasons he may be able to be acquired for minuscule talent. Also Inge may be on the wrong side of 30, but he is much closer to the right side than Blake is. He also costs pretty much the same as Blake for this year.

The indians haven't had a decent third basemen since Matt Williams (Fryman hit OK 1 year, but his defense was poor). I've got hope for Mills or Hodges, but that is just hope, and it is at least 2 years away. This team is contending now, and a stop-gap would be most useful.

by oxforddave on Mar 14, 2008 12:28 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Inge or Crede?
Not that it's anything definitive, but Fryman did win a Gold Glove.  He was a significantly above-average hitter for two seasons, and he was injured for much of the other three.  Very good player, just not a very healthy one.

by Jay on Mar 14, 2008 12:46 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Inge or Crede?
"I have no interest in Crede, especially at the extortionate price the White Sox would ask for him from a division rival."

from what I have read from http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/ the Giants kept offering guys they were about (or did) release, or Dave Roberts, and the Sox want top level talent. Add that  to being a Divisional rival and who knows what they would ask for.

by vaugheyj on Mar 14, 2008 1:27 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Inge or Crede?
Pass.

Blake was actually good for 708 RZR last season (3rd in AL). Inge was good for a 712 RZR. They were about equal defensively.

by gte619n on Mar 14, 2008 11:41 AM EDT   0 recs

Re: Inge or Crede?
Check the OOZ plays.

by Jay on Mar 14, 2008 11:50 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Inge or Crede?
Yeah, Blake is pretty bad to his left. Add in Peralta not having the greatest range to his right and you have a nice little hole.

by hans on Mar 14, 2008 4:59 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Inge or Crede?
Inge looks like the poster child for the old phrase "wrong side of 30."  It's not clear he's a better bet to perform in 2008 than Marte, let alone Blake.

by Jay on Mar 14, 2008 11:50 AM EDT   0 recs

Re: Inge or Crede?
I was about to post the exact same thing. I'd be willing to bet that Marte will outhit Inge this year at a fraction of the price. Plus if we traded for him, we'd be helping out our closest division rival by taking his contract off their hands plus giving them whatever talent we'd have to give back.

by zempf on Mar 14, 2008 12:31 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Inge or Crede?
I am no great fan of Casey, but prefer him over either of those two options.

by JulioBernazard on Mar 14, 2008 11:57 AM EDT   0 recs

Re: Inge or Crede?
Completely O/T:

How about your Cavs?  Lose to the Nets - without Jason Kidd and follow that up with a loss to the Wizards - the Wizards for godsakes - and without Gilbert Arenas to boot.  And you expect them to do something in the play-offs?  Good luck with that.  You didn't know that I've got inside help - Danny Ferry - with the Cavs rapid decline, did you?

Meanwhile a team lead by a true character guy - Tracy MacGrady - has won 21 straight and already has more wins than the Cavs will put up for the whole season.

Yep, LeJerk's gonna be demanding a trade this summer while he's playing basketball in China.  Can't wait.

"the most vehement Yankee-hating guy I know" - Jay

by mauichuck on Mar 15, 2008 1:49 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Inge or Crede?
Disappointing losses, to be sure. Oddly, we match up better against BOS than NJN (we're now 0-3 against the Nets).

Z will be back. I'm happy Sacha looks un-lost. Need WallyWorld to wake up.

There's time for this club to jell, Chuck. Plenty of time.

by JulioBernazard on Mar 15, 2008 7:58 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Inge or Crede?
I don't know who you are, Julio Bernazard, but I've got one thing to say: stay classy.  

Here you have someone dropping by to rip on your (our) team after every disappointing loss, (and by the way - who the hell does that?  I've got friends who are fans of various other teams in every sport, across the country, and none act like that.  This is like the dorks on the sportsline message boards) and you take it in stride.  I'm being straight up: I'm impressed.

by dgcambridge on Mar 15, 2008 10:23 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Inge or Crede?
Dave relax - it's just a ball bust between Julio and me - you're not involved.

Here's an idea you might embrace: being an Indian's fan does not obligate me to be a Cavs fan too.  Kinda like being a native Northern Ohioan and a star athlete on one of their professional sports team does not require you to root for the local baseball club.  

"the most vehement Yankee-hating guy I know" - Jay

by mauichuck on Mar 15, 2008 10:38 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Inge or Crede?
I'm not asking you to be a Cavs fan.  I'm spooning with that idea right now.

Hey, if a White Sox or Twins fan came on here and started busting on the Tribe after every loss (which hasn't happened to my knowledge), or a Steelers fan regarding the Browns, I'd chase them around a little too - until I became bored with it. I think we're in the home stretch.

by dgcambridge on Mar 15, 2008 11:02 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Inge or Crede?
Me too.  

Julio and I have been fencing with one another about the Cavs for the last few months - we've got a bet on the Cavs final record.  Right now it looks like I'll owe him a beer or six.   Sometimes he jabs me - like when the Cavs win - and sometimes I jab him.  But understand this: I'm one of the most rabid Indians fans you know and an unappologetic Clevelandophile.  People who know me will tell you that me busting on a Cleveland team - any Cleveland team - is entirely out of character.  But that's how much Mr. James and his entoutage piss me off.

"the most vehement Yankee-hating guy I know" - Jay

by mauichuck on Mar 15, 2008 11:12 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Inge or Crede?
am i making this up, or do you have this notion that lebron is a megalomaniac who hates cleveland?  going to new york doesnt mean more exposure for him, either.  the yankees hat is him being trendy - not cleverly rebellious.  

if lebron and his play don't please you, what does?

by sandwich on Mar 16, 2008 3:45 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Inge or Crede?
Funny, you telling Dave to relax, when you're the one who apparently has to froth at the mouth over every Cavs loss.

Thing is, I understand what's going on here, and that it's playful, but Dave still makes a good point.  If it's really just between you and Julio, maybe you should get a private room.  For anyone who doesn't know the whole context, these little spats do look pretty trolly.

One other note, while nobody is obligated to be a Cavs fan here, it is just common sense that 90% of the readers and posters will be Cavs and Browns fans, so that ought to be respected.

by Jay on Mar 16, 2008 11:40 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Inge or Crede?
I thought it was moderately amusing but clearly I passed that point months ago.  I guess I'm the only one that's amused.  Maybe we'll do the coda at the end of the Cavs season - in April.
"the most vehement Yankee-hating guy I know" - Jay

by mauichuck on Mar 16, 2008 12:38 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Inge or Crede?
I personally still find it modestly amusing, to tell you the truth, but for those who have tired of it, I have to admit they have a pretty good point.

by Jay on Mar 16, 2008 8:02 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Inge or Crede?
It wouldn't be quite as fun if it wasn't "in public," but I'm willing to shut it down, except for the following occasions:

  • Cavs win #42 (assuring that I'll win the bet)
  • End of regular season (final beer total computation)
  • Cavs take the title

by JulioBernazard on Mar 17, 2008 8:53 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Inge or Crede?
Yeah, it's all in good fun. I respect the Chuckster for everything except his opinion on The Hat.

by JulioBernazard on Mar 16, 2008 11:29 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Inge or Crede?
By the way, your "character guy" kicked a city that really didn't need kicking last year:

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/bk/bkn/4591942.html

by JulioBernazard on Mar 15, 2008 8:03 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Inge or Crede?
Well he may not go to New Orleans, but he did go here  So maybe LeBron will go to New Orleans and Tracy won't - McGrady's already shown he's more of a man than James.

BTW, Tracy's doin' it after loosing a much better center than Z and playing in the West while James's team can't even beat the Eastern slugs - big difference.

"the most vehement Yankee-hating guy I know" - Jay

by mauichuck on Mar 15, 2008 8:11 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Inge or Crede?
To be fair though, Yao is the only guy who has gone down for Houston. The Cavs for some reason just can't stay healthy.

First it was the Sasha/Andy holdouts. Then the slew of injuries ... Sasha, Andy, Gibson, Z ....

Look I'm not as keen as I was before on the Cavs repeating their run to the conference finals, mainly due to the fact they are not going to get in synch with all the transition/injuries. But I still say it will take another's teams best shot to take 4 of 7 if LeBron's on his game. They may not win 50, but if they are over .500, they are a tough out for any other team (provided they are mostly healthy of course).

by talonk on Mar 16, 2008 12:20 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Inge or Crede?
That is indeed impressive on T.Mac's part. I didn't know that, and it raises my estimation of him.

The streak is an amazing accomplishment, and speaks to the team defense being played in HOU.

Yes, Yao is better than Z, but he turns the pill over a lot more than our favorite Lithuanian. Losing either guy is a big blow.

by JulioBernazard on Mar 16, 2008 10:37 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Inge or Crede?
ps Half the Rockets' wins during the streak have come against the East.

by JulioBernazard on Mar 16, 2008 11:28 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Inge or Crede?
"McGrady's already shown he's more of a man than James."

You're kidding, right?  Is there something I'm missing here?

by sandwich on Mar 16, 2008 11:29 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Inge or Crede?
He is just being provocative.  Don't sweat it, bro.

by jhon on Mar 17, 2008 11:35 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Inge or Crede?
I love pre-injury Crede ... but I feel he is too much of a risk for what the White Sox would want right now.

Now, if we could dump Casey (and another player) for Crede at mid-season when the White Sox are already 10 games out ... that would be great. Assuming that Crede can return to 2005 form.

 

by Toxicadam on Mar 14, 2008 12:32 PM EDT   0 recs

Re: Inge or Crede?
I can actually think of a couple scenarios where we end up trading for Akinori Iwamura during midseason.  I like him better than Crede or Inge, and he may answer some of the issues you bring up about our current 3B situation.  I know he's not available now.  I'm fairly sanguine about 3B right now and wouldn't do anything.  Ask me again in a few months.

by Kenyafan on Mar 14, 2008 12:47 PM EDT   0 recs

Re: Inge or Crede?
With Evan Longoria at third, Iwamura's been playing second for the <del>Devil</del> Rays.  If Astrocab proves that last season was not a fluke, suddenly Josh Barfield becomes expendible, and would likely be very attractive to the <del>Devil</del> Rays.  If Marte doesn't pan out, AstroCab lives up to the hype, and the organization vetoes Jhonny mhoving to third, I could see Iwamura playing third and batting second for the Tribe after trading Barfield to the <del>Devil</del> Rays.
Free Andy Marte!

Pronk Needs You

by woodsmeister on Mar 14, 2008 1:47 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Inge or Crede?
Okay, so the site doesn't support any of the strikethrough tags.  Now I know.
Free Andy Marte!

Pronk Needs You

by woodsmeister on Mar 14, 2008 1:52 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Inge or Crede?
It's just as funny the way it is.

by JulioBernazard on Mar 15, 2008 7:58 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Inge or Crede?
Hey KF, where you been?  I gotta question for you: is there any relationship between diabetes (melitus) and glacoma?
"the most vehement Yankee-hating guy I know" - Jay

by mauichuck on Mar 15, 2008 12:29 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Blake may not be "great" defensively,
but did a solid to very solid job last year, and certainly better than what Marte has been showing in ST so far (SSS understood.)

Hello everyone,

I understand the concerns about Blake's defense, but I think I'd rather stick with him over Inge and Crede for the following reasons (not in any particular order):

  1. We already have Blake, and unless you're going to trade him away in this or a subsequent deal (unlikely,) you add the expensive payroll of either Inge or Crede.

  2. Blake has comparable or better power than Inge and only a little less power than Crede (and that's presuming he's healthy - see below,) and likely would hit for a better BA than Inge and comparable to Crede, so how much of a benefit offensively would we get?  Not much.  The defense may be improved a few notches, but is that really worth acquiring either of them for the price we'll likely have to pay for either of them?

  3. Being that they are division rivals, they are NOT going to give either of them cheaply to us.  As mentioned above, look at the price tag the White Sox were asking from the Giants, a team outside our division.  The price will likely be so high that any improvement we get defensively is going to be likely negated by the high price in prospects we're going to likely have to give up.  And like I said, offensively, I think the three of them (Blake/Inge/Crede) are pretty comparable for the most part (Blake can hit around 15-25 HRs a season, which is pretty much what Inge can do at best, but with a lower BA, and Crede probably won't do more than that in all likelihood, due to the questions about his back.)

  4. How healthy is Crede really?  I think he had a back problem if I remember correctly.  How will that affect his power stroke?  And like Blake, he too is prone to hot and cold periods offensively, so again, I don't think he'd be that much of an upgrade offensively.  And being that we'd have to pay a very high price to get him from the White Sox, I think that would essentially negate any defensive advantages we'd gain from having Crede instead of Blake as our 3B.  Conversely, Blake has been pretty healthy for the most part, and hopefully, that will continue.

I can understand the argument about worrying the 2008 season and not worrying about future seasons in paying a high price for either Crede or Inge, but how high of a price would you go to get either of them because I can't see either team giving either to us without us paying an above-average to very high price for either of them, and I think both have enough concerns - either health-wise, consistency-wise, or both - that make me think we should just stick with Blake at 3B and hope that he can come close to duplicating what he did defensively last season.  

I know that doesn't sound very comforting, but he had, by most accounts, a pretty solid defensive season last season, and I don't see him falling totally off the map defensively one season after having a pretty solid one.  He's not THAT bad at 3B yet, and certainly not as inconsistent as Marte has been in ST (SSS understood,) so if he can give us close to what he gave us last year defensively, the Indians will probably be fine.  

I can understand the reasons for acquiring Inge/Crede, but at the high price it would likely take to get either of them from a division rival, I too would pass.

Just my 2 cents - no offense.  :-)

May the Tribe be great in 2008! :-)

by indiansfan on Mar 14, 2008 5:40 PM EDT   0 recs

Re: Inge or Crede?
Man a lot of people here sure love defense! Inge and Crede suck. balls. No thanks.

by Joe on Mar 17, 2008 11:03 AM EDT   0 recs

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