Let's Go Tribe!: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:



Around SBN: Monday Night Heartache, Take Two: Bills fall to Browns Bar-right-arrows



Mets interested in Marte?

It's just a speculative article, but suggests that at least one team might be interested in Marte. Interesting since there is a possibility that Barfield is making a case for keeping him instead. Here is the link (I don't know how to do embedded links on this site):
http://www.metstoday.com/spring-training-08/2008/a-rh-hitter-to-consider/

0 recs | Comment 37 comments

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Display:

Re: Mets interested in Marte?
There have been a lot of recent posts about the idea of giving Barf the 2B job on the basis of a decent spring, while shifting Drubz to SS and Jhonny to 3B (which trading Marte could naturally lead to).  If the FO were even remotely interested in this as a move, don't people think Wedge would at least be working Jhonny out at 3B during ST?

by Denver Tribe Fan on Mar 14, 2008 4:03 PM EDT   0 recs

Re: Mets interested in Marte?
and the answer is "yes". I don't see them doing anything exciting like that (or rash). I think trading Marte is likely not going to net us much value at this point and simply seeing what we have in him is probably the best thing to do for now. But, the other side of me says we've seen what we have in him since he's joined this organization and its more likely that he'll produce like he has since joining us than before joining us.

by hans on Mar 14, 2008 4:08 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Mets interested in Marte?
Actually, some guy named "Joe" thinks it might be cool for the Mets to obtain Marte who would then morph into Kevin Mitchell. Not exactly a clear sign of interest from Omar Minaya.  
For the Indians, trading Marte now would be a classic example of "buying high, selling low." They would receive nothing of consequence for him.
Consider: Barfield, 25, has had the best part of two full seasons to run up a career OPS of .677. A few weeks of spring training do not persuade me that he is now a new, improved version of his former self.
Marte, 24, has had 278 major league at-bats scattered over three seasons. Maybe he'll never be worth much, but it's unlikely his value will diminish significantly from where it stands today. The Tribe should keep him and play him.

by Rochester on Mar 14, 2008 4:57 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Mets interested in Marte?
Ship Marte's ass to the Met's, but on the condition that they also take Jason Michaels.

I'm tired of watching Marte take garbage hacks and pop up trying to pull an outside pitch. Fire him! If he turns into the next Brandon Phillips, so be it. We need to face the reality that some talents aren't suited to the Indians organization. Mind you, this isn't entirely his fault. Competing in a pennant race and waiting for a rookie get his 'sea legs' don't exactly go hand in hand. For every Asdrubal who flashes brilliance during a brief call up, there's a Marte who puts too much pressure on himself to succeed.

I don't like using spring numbers as a barometer of anything, but this is one time where the approach is showing up in the outcomes. Barfield's lowered hands seem to be giving him that extra millisecond to react and judge pitches. He's working counts. Thankfully, his numbers also look good. Marte still has the same garbage swing for the fences approach he has always had. He isn't striking out like a fiend only because he's opping up garbe pitches early in the count.

by crazymoloh on Mar 14, 2008 4:46 PM EDT   0 recs

Re: Mets interested in Marte?
p.s: Not advocating Barfield be given he 2B job. Make him demonstrate that he can stick with this approach AND make it work over a longer period of time. If things look up, consider calling him up in the summer and shipping Carroll somewhere, or something.  

by crazymoloh on Mar 14, 2008 4:48 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I think Marte being traded away doesn't
automatically mean that Barfield will make the team or be the starting 2B - remember that we do have Blake, and while he's not the "ideal" candidate to start at 3B, he did do it last year, and pretty well for the most part, so I think Marte not making the team/getting traded doesn't guarantee that Barfield will be the one to take his spot.

While perhaps taking another IF would be more likely, I wouldn't totally rule out the fact that if Marte were traded and Blake is inserted at 3B, perhaps Ben Francisco would have a greater chance of making this ballclub out of ST (and especially if Michaels were included as part of the deal) - after all, Blake would no longer be an option for the OF if he's playing everyday at 3B.  While we'd have the matter of Choo coming back and being out of options (I'm not sure if Francisco still has an option left or not,) Choo likely won't be available until May or June - the OF picture will likely shake itself out by then (Francisco or Gutierrez - is Gutz out of options or not? Not sure - being sent back to AAA Buffalo or Michaels or Dellucci being traded, etc.,) so I could see Francisco being part of the OF picture to start the season if Marte is traded and Blake replaces him at 3B, and being that Blake replaced Marte quite admirably last year, I could see the Indians going to him again if they feel Marte won't contribute as expected here.  Plus, you do have Carroll to back up Blake at 3B if need be - it may not be the "ideal" approach in terms of having enough IF depth, but I think it's a reasonable possibility, since Blake's insertion at 3B essentially takes him away from being an OFer, and thereby, would have the Indians add another OFer to the roster (i.e. Francisco.)

Just my 2 cents.  :-)

May the Tribe be great in 2008! :-)

by indiansfan on Mar 14, 2008 5:08 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: I think Marte being traded away doesn't
indiansfan,

Sometimes its not entirely clear to me whether you are responding to my post or strawmen. Blake is out starting 3B. Has there been any doubt about the going into the season?

Also, I thought I just said that Barfield wasn't a good candidate to be either the starting 2B or infield backup.

by crazymoloh on Mar 14, 2008 5:14 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Sorry about not seeing your second post!
Hello crazymoloh,

Sorry - I did not see your second post when I posted (I think you made it before I had completed my second post - and that was because I walked away from my computer to take care of something before I finished that post); on that point with Barfield, we agree.

Regarding my first point about Blake and Marte, in actuality, I should have just made that a separate post down lower in the thread and not a direct reply to you, as I think the idea of having Marte be our starting 3B was brought up in this thread, but not by you.  I don't think everyone is thrilled with the idea of having Blake being our starting 3B - that's why the idea/thread for trading for Crede or Inge came up, even though Blake, as of right now, is our starting 3B.

Sorry for any confusion - I think I tried to put it all in one post to save on time (something that is in very short supply for me lately,) but I wasn't specifically replying directly to you about Marte - I was providing that for the whole thread.  I should have been more clear about that or put it lower in the thread.  

Again, sorry for the confusion.

May the Tribe be great in 2008! :-)

by indiansfan on Mar 15, 2008 5:44 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Mets interested in Marte?
I have trouble believing the Indians will trade Marte straight-up for anything short of a significant prospect.  I won't rule out the possibility of Barfield making the team over Marte, but it is significantly problematic.

For one thing, where's our depth at 3B if we let Marte go?  We can't stash him in the minors like Francisco, nor are there others in the minors to step in.  For all the talk about Peralta at 3B, he hasn't played the position since 2004, when he played it part-time in Buffalo and reportedly not all that well.  Carroll isn't much of an answer either.  We'd rather stash "a Marte" in the minors, but we literally don't have that "option."  He's our only real depth at 3B, and he must be kept in the majors.

For another thing, does anybody really think we'd be better off with Barfield on the bench than Marte?  Exactly how does that help us -- and for that matter, exactly how does that help Barfield re-discover an adequate stroke and approach at the plate?  I'm sure Barfield would rather be in Cleveland, but he wouldn't be much help there, and he's better off long-term starting in Buffalo.

by Jay on Mar 14, 2008 4:50 PM EDT   0 recs

Re: Mets interested in Marte?
I agree that Barfield would be no better off as a reserve than Marte but the problem is that many people wanted Marte to START.  So if he can't, somebody has to play third and that opens a spot for Barfield at 2b ... potentially.

by westbrook on Mar 14, 2008 4:58 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Mets interested in Marte?
Yeah, but why is opening up a spot for Barfield even considered a good thing?

All of this gets back to people treating players like pegs and the field like a pegboard.  Peralta "seems like" a 3B-shaped peg -- allegedly -- and Barfield "seems like" a 2B-shaped peg -- also allegedly -- and AstroCab really and truly is a SS-shaped peg.

Here's the thing, though.

  1. The first allegedly.
  2. The second allegedly.
  3. Putting the right pegs in the right holes doesn't win ballgames, even if it "feels right."

See also:  The constant push to move Sizemore down in the lineup, which is simultaneously a natural impulse and an asinine idea.

by Jay on Mar 14, 2008 5:15 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Mets interested in Marte?
I knew all along that the Sizemore move-down was asinine, but anyways...

I have no problem with Asdrubal playing 2b, but if we need a 3b, the top guy has to be Peralta ... which opens up a spot at short, which opens up a spot at second.

How much worse of a 3b can Peralta be than Blake?

by westbrook on Mar 14, 2008 7:27 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Mets interested in Marte?
If the Indians are expecting a significant prospect, that isn't going to happen. Trading him only makes sense if there is simultaneously a way to acquire depth at 3B. But I think if the Mets find a way to satisfy this basic requirement - giving the Indians a ML-caliber, 3B option - they should consider it. The funny part about that is that Marte is exactly that. So yeah, this is quite the pipe dream. Maybe the Indians can exchange their failed former top prospect with another organization for another failed former top prospect?

Also, adding Barfield to the roster is a terrible idea. Unless Asdrubal gets hit by a truck, I don't see why anyone would consider it.

  1. Barfield needs to show us that his adjustments will result in quality numbers over a period greater than 35 PAs.

  2. He only plays plays one position. A flaw that befalls our other backup infielder. Unless there's a need to backup our first backup, I don't see this being a good idea.

by crazymoloh on Mar 14, 2008 5:04 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Perhaps RHP Mike Pelfrey?
Hello everyone,

There is serious debate over whether Pelfrey will ever become that top-of-the-rotation or at least very good mid-rotation starter, as he's been torched often at AAA and has had some serious problems at the ML level, supposedly from his command being out-of-whack at times and his stuff being too hittable.

I don't know - would the Mets consider a Marte for Pelfrey trade - two prospects that haven't lived up to their billing?  What if Michaels were included in the deal with Marte - would they give up Pelfrey?

I know Pelfrey is no "sure thing," but being that Marte is no "sure thing" either, that probably would be the best type of prospect you could get for Marte without it being a very young, unknown prospect - getting a prospect who was highly regarded, but hasn't lived up to expectations - someone like Pelfrey.

Just a thought and my 2 cents.  :-)

May the Tribe be great in 2008! :-)

by indiansfan on Mar 14, 2008 5:12 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Perhaps RHP Mike Pelfrey?
I'd do Marte for Carlos Quentin. Because, you know, we need more outfielder! :)

by crazymoloh on Mar 14, 2008 5:16 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Good idea, except he's now with the White
Sox, so that "high price in same division" theory comes into play, not to mention we're virtually bursting at the seams with OFers (not that that's a bad thing - depth is good!)  :-)

I thought Pelfrey could be a possibility, just because he hasn't lived up to lofty expectations either, just like Marte - trade one underachieving prospect for another underachieving prospect.

Just my 2 cents.  :-)

May the Tribe be great in 2008! :-)

by indiansfan on Mar 15, 2008 5:46 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Mets interested in Marte?
Maybe the Indians can exchange their failed former top prospect with another organization for another failed former top prospect?

Well, I imagine Corey Smith is available.

by Jay on Mar 14, 2008 5:16 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Mets interested in Marte?
We've had an odd progression of 3B prospects in the organization. Corey Smith, Matt Whitney and now Marte. The curse of Travis Fryman?

by crazymoloh on Mar 14, 2008 5:18 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Mets interested in Marte?
Remember that Thome guy?

Beau Mills could more than make up for it, no matter what happens to Marte.  As could Hodges.  We're pretty well stacked at 3B, potentially.

by jhon on Mar 14, 2008 5:30 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Mets interested in Marte?
Matt Whitney could more than make up for it, no matter what happens to Corey Smith. As could Marte. We're pretty well stacked at 3B, potentially.

p.s: Why are people under the impression Beau Mills will stick at 3rd base, let alone turn into a middle of the order hitter?

by crazymoloh on Mar 14, 2008 5:47 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Mets interested in Marte?
That doesn't sound like me at all.  

Forgot about Branyan.  In a way he "made it", but his career has been restrained because of a common aversion to strikeouts.

I don't know what will become of Beau, but there's a lot I like.  He was a high first round pick at a good age (20). Notice that he's still in ML camp?  He already looks like a Major leaguer:  his build, his swing, his patience.  He could rise very, very fast.

He has the "light-tower" power.  He's big and athletic.  I don't have a read on his glove, but if he ends up hitting like Braun we can sort that out later.  He can't possibly be worse than Corey Smith, who was anomalously terrible.  

Beau's great.  You'll see.  

The book's not even out on Whitney yet, and I never believed he was ever Mills' equal as a prospect even before the injury.  

by jhon on Mar 14, 2008 6:06 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Mets interested in Marte?
I can't wait for the 5 paragraph analysis of a Marte - Corey Smith swap that's about to come...

by jhon on Mar 14, 2008 5:31 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Mets interested in Marte?
In addition to Jhonny's defensive abilities at third, moving him to that position has to decrease his value offensively.  

Compare his career OPS of .761 to the career OPS other third basemen around the AL last season.

A-rod .967
Glaus .858
Chavez .833
Lowell .812
Mora .795
Beltre .786
Fields .785
Blake .776

Jhonny comes out only slightly better than Figgins, career OPS is .754, in 9th place.

At SS, Jhonny is 5th behind Jeter (.850), Tejada (.821), Guillen (.808), and Young (.795)

The question then becomes whether having Barf at second and AstroCab at SS makes up for Jhonny as a lower than average third baseman and Blake in the OF.

On the other hand, we can hope that Marte or Shelton read the speculation cited above and discover the flaw in Andy's swing that's been keeping him down since he joined the tribe.  (If it's really that simple, Derek hasn't been doing his job.)

"It's hard to win when you don't score." Cliff Lee, 9/28/05.

by Harry Doyle on Mar 14, 2008 5:53 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Mets interested in Marte?
The results vary year by year, but generally third basemen produce more or less right at the league average -- and so does Peralta.  So he's a reasonable choice for 3B, and certainly a better choice than whoever else we have after Blake, i.e., nobody.

But that presupposes that we have a more reasonable option for second base than Marte is for third base.  I don't believe that's true.  After all of this, Marte is still 14 months younger than Barfield and was a better hitter at every age and every level in the minors.  Barfield hangs his hat solely on a single major league season with a 741 OPS, and that ain't that much when it comes right down to it.

Look at it another way ... in his only extended exposure to AL pitching, Barfield put up 594 OPS in 444 PA.  Marte's AL career, brief and scattered and poor as it has been, is better:  667 OPS in 238 PA.

Barfield may turn out to be the better hitter, but we sure as hell don't know that yet by a long stretch.  Marte, once again, has just never gotten a real shot.

by Jay on Mar 14, 2008 10:17 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Mets interested in Marte?
shouldn't the diary title be "Mets Blogger Interested in Marte" ?

by Brick. on Mar 14, 2008 5:31 PM EDT   0 recs

Re: Mets interested in Marte?
It was - in another universe.

by CaptainPenny on Mar 14, 2008 5:34 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Mets interested in Marte?
Yes, but that blogger has discovered the flaw in Marte's swing (see my comment above), so he must know what he's talking about.
"It's hard to win when you don't score." Cliff Lee, 9/28/05.

by Harry Doyle on Mar 14, 2008 5:56 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Mets interested in Marte?
Mike Pelfrey attended Wichita State...as did Casey Blake and Eric Wedge....get er done....

by volapuk on Mar 14, 2008 5:42 PM EDT   0 recs

Good point - I don't think I knew that!
Hello volapuk,

Thanks for the info!  Certainly, having "connections" doesn't hurt!  :-)

May the Tribe be great in 2008! :-)

by indiansfan on Mar 15, 2008 5:50 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Mets interested in Marte?
Sorry, I'm not done with Marte.  I hope we keep him around a bit longer.  I still think there's time.

Congrats to Barfield for landing some singles in spring training.  You'll excuse me if I'm not ready to toss out Marte because of it, especially when we have the perfectly fine city of Buffalo holding an every day position open for JB.  I'm glad to see that he's trying to see more pitches, but if his strikeouts sky-rocket, is it really an indicator of future success?

by dgcambridge on Mar 14, 2008 7:43 PM EDT   0 recs

Re: Mets interested in Marte?
More importantly, it is whether his walk rate trends  - significantly - upwards, not what his strikeouts do. His walk rate needs to quadruple, and then we can start saying we have something in Barfield. Until then, he's not worthy of being in Cleveland.
Sizemore-Shapiro 2008. The Official Red Bull of Let's Go Tribe Game Threads.

by Gradyforpresident on Mar 15, 2008 12:51 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Mets interested in Marte?
Yes!  That's the talking point right there.

by Jay on Mar 15, 2008 3:38 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Mets interested in Marte?
Absolutely.  My point was that even though his walk rate is off to a good start here, his K's are Snydereffic (now at 36 AB, 4 BB, 10 K).  We usually discount strikeouts, but I see at as Barfield might be trying to work deeper into counts to walk.  But there's a difference between developing plate discipline, and just taking more pitches.  Walking is a skill, it's not just a matter of desire.  I don't think we're seeing anything yet.

by dgcambridge on Mar 15, 2008 9:58 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Mets interested in Marte?
It'd be nice to think that Barf's Ks are a result of seeing more pitches, but he's still striking out in counts of 3-4 pitches. Some of his atbats look like he's showing some improvement, but he still has atbats that go by in the blink of an eye.

by supermarioelia on Mar 15, 2008 11:34 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Mets interested in Marte?
Not only should we not trade Marte, but he should be our starting third baseman

by Roger Dorn on Mar 15, 2008 4:34 PM EDT   0 recs

Re: Mets interested in Marte?
Wow ... it must mean a lot to a young third baseman to get an endorsement from an icon like Roger Dorn.

by Jay on Mar 16, 2008 11:35 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Mets interested in Marte?
It certainly has reassured me, the common fan, that Marte can handle it.

by Voltaire on Mar 16, 2008 12:27 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Constantly updated Indians news, lots of in-depth analysis, live in-game discussions -- and more fanatical and thoughtful Indians fans than every other web site combined.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Topps1978-332f_small
Just how important is the draft?
Yw9dg4yi_small
Open Cliff Lee Just Won the Cy Young Award Thread

Recent FanPosts

Small
Free Agent Starters
3444ant_black_small
Depth Starters
Brick_small
40-Man Decisions - Who ya Got?
Small
Indians fans interested in Closer & 3rd Baseman?
47b8dd28b3127cceb64839d9746800000026102bauwjrq3za_small
It Must Be The Offseason.
Small
A Pronk Sighting
3444ant_black_small
Short-Term Depth: Infield
3444ant_black_small
Short-term Depth: Outfield

Post_icon New FanPost All FanPosts Carrot-mini

AL CENTRAL AFTER JULY 9

W L PCT GB
Cleveland 44 28 .611 -
Minnesota 38 34 .528 6
Kansas City 35 35 .500 8
Chicago 36 36 .500 8
Detroit 28 44 .389 16

FanShots

Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.

Recommended FanShots

BBWAA awards AL MVP to Travelocity Gnome
O/T: Christmas Ale has arrived! Christmas Ale has arrived!

Recent FanShots

O/T "A valuable substitute for vegetables"
Tazawa Junichi
Cliff Lee gets the Dugout Treatment
2009 Marcels
BBWAA do not screw up NL MVP, give it to Pujols
OMGICBWGHAFN - Matt Whitney
Lugo for Robertson or Willis?
Indians pursuing Hoffman, other closers
Yanks make CC an offer; can he refuse?

Post_icon New FanShot All FanShots Carrot-mini


Site Meter