Let's Go Tribe!: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:



Around SBN: Race to the BCS: rankings, in-game scores & blogs Bar-right-arrows



Fausto's mechanics

Maybe others here know more about Chris O'Leary, or have opinions of his work.  But I found this link about his analysis of the mechanics of 20 top young pitchers, as identified in a recent SI piece.

http://www.chrisoleary.com/projects/Baseball/Pitching/RethinkingPitching/Essays/BaseballsTop20YoungP itchers2008.html

Since predicting Fausto's future is a cottage industry here and elsewhere, I thought I'd pass along O'Leary's take:

"2. Fausto Carmona: Carmona's a gangly guy whose mechanics are a bit hard to read as a result (which always makes me cautious). I like the hip/shoulder separation. However, he's showing the ball to Center Field (which is bad for the elbow), his PAS elbow is a little high, and his timing is a bit suspect. Notice how his GS foot is about to plant but his PAS arm isn't vertical. My gut won't let me be very positive about such a flailing, gangly guy. Yes, Bob Gibson flailed around, but after he release the ball."

0 recs | Comment 35 comments

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Display:

Re: Fausto's mechanics
For the rest of us lunkheads, GS=Glove side and PAS = Pitching Arm side.  Other than that I have no idea what this guy means by "timing" and how accurate this dude's "gut" is.

Frankly I'm getting bored with all of the minutia analysis - let's get the goddamn season started already!

"the most vehement Yankee-hating guy I know" - Jay

by mauichuck on Mar 19, 2008 3:30 PM EDT   0 recs

Re: Fausto's mechanics
Seriously, where's the confidence intervals and track record?  What a douchebag.

by Jay on Mar 19, 2008 3:50 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Fausto's mechanics
Yeah, you wouldn't wanna back this stuff up with facts for godsakes.  Whattya think this is - a science?
"the most vehement Yankee-hating guy I know" - Jay

by mauichuck on Mar 19, 2008 3:54 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Fausto's mechanics
I'll be launching my phrenology podcast after work.  Stay tuned.

by Seattle Tribe Fan on Mar 19, 2008 4:13 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Fausto's mechanics
Where can I sign up for your newsletter?  That Dynomizer Dr. Abrams sold me just isn't doing the trick anymore.

by InfiniteMonkeyTypists on Mar 20, 2008 10:34 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Fausto's mechanics
Chuck,

Total non sequiter here, but what's your specialty?

Sportsman of the year, 1991

by BostonWahoo on Mar 19, 2008 4:32 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Fausto's mechanics
Can we answer that for you?  My guess is cynicism.

by Thommy on Mar 19, 2008 4:35 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Fausto's mechanics
I like your answer better, but I think I'd perfer skepticism.
"the most vehement Yankee-hating guy I know" - Jay

by mauichuck on Mar 19, 2008 4:40 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Fausto's mechanics
Better said - Michael Shermer is a friend of mine.

by Thommy on Mar 20, 2008 12:41 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Fausto's mechanics
I gave up medicine long before I had to choose a specialty.  Was headed on the track to do Thoracic Surgery, but my string snapped and I went back to doing Chemical Engineering.  

My "specialty" now is taking apart chemical munitions and destroying the chemical agent, usually one of the nerve agents, Vx or GB.  But sometimes it's mustard agent, either HD or HT.  

"the most vehement Yankee-hating guy I know" - Jay

by mauichuck on Mar 19, 2008 4:39 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Fausto's mechanics
I didn't know that Chuck.  When I first moved to Maryland I interview at Edgewood CBC.  That whole job would've been about taking apart and disposing of chemical weapons.
-Erik

by drerikbrady on Mar 19, 2008 4:42 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Fausto's mechanics
You're gonna love this.  I know the guy at Battelle that runs the CBC, in fact we were classmates in college.  I'm assuming you mean the Chemical and Biologic Center at Edgewood.
"the most vehement Yankee-hating guy I know" - Jay

by mauichuck on Mar 19, 2008 5:00 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Fausto's mechanics
Yeah, I interviewed with them back in 2002, I'm thinking it was June or so.  I like them, but just wasn't sure that it was the direction that I wanted to go, so I took the gig at NIH instead.
-Erik

by drerikbrady on Mar 19, 2008 9:21 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Fausto's mechanics
Your "string" snapped?  Which string would that be Chuck?  Your G string?

Cue anyone who has met Chuck retching...

-Erik

by drerikbrady on Mar 19, 2008 4:43 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Fausto's mechanics
Obviously, it's the string that keeps his head on straight.
"It's hard to win when you don't score." Cliff Lee, 9/28/05.

by Harry Doyle on Mar 19, 2008 5:06 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Fausto's mechanics
i've never met chuck.  i am retching.

by Brick. on Mar 19, 2008 5:14 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Fausto's mechanics
My first thought was altogether more unpleasant

(apologies for lowering the tone....)

http://www.on-the-bench.blogspot.com - an irreverant take on EPL football (that's soccer!)

by Luis (Tribe Fan in London) on Mar 20, 2008 11:39 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Fausto's mechanics
Wow, thats a whole different can of worms than I expected.
Sportsman of the year, 1991

by BostonWahoo on Mar 19, 2008 4:58 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Fausto's mechanics
My gf's favorite movie is The Rock.  No joke.  Have you ever encountered the elegant but deadly "string-of-pearls" configuration?  Ever had to stab yourself in the thorax with a 2 ga. needle pushing epi?
Sportsman of the year, 1991

by BostonWahoo on Mar 19, 2008 5:21 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Fausto's mechanics
What's your next question...

... Ever been in a Turkish prison?

... Ever seen a grown man naked?

"It's hard to win when you don't score." Cliff Lee, 9/28/05.

by Harry Doyle on Mar 19, 2008 6:02 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Fausto's mechanics
Here's the truth.  I've been up to my ankles in Vx, with rubber boots on and inside a sealed plastic suit of cours.  The stuff looks like used motor oil - same viscosity and color.  Fortunately I don't know what it smells like.  It's doesn't bubble.  It doesn't make your skin fasiculate.  It's pretty boring stuff.  It does have the same BTU value of kerosene if that helps.
"the most vehement Yankee-hating guy I know" - Jay

by mauichuck on Mar 19, 2008 6:47 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Fausto's mechanics
If I'm ever up to my ankles in Vx, I hope to also be in rubber boots and a sealed plastic suit, otherwise, I doubt your insights on its properties will be of much use during the very short remainder of my life.

I hope you earn a hefty amount of hazard pay for a gig like that.

"It's hard to win when you don't score." Cliff Lee, 9/28/05.

by Harry Doyle on Mar 19, 2008 6:52 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Fausto's mechanics
How do you think I can afford to live in Maui?
"the most vehement Yankee-hating guy I know" - Jay

by mauichuck on Mar 19, 2008 7:28 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Fausto's mechanics
Here's the real Rock.  We had enough chem agent there to kill everybody on the planet.  Now it's all gone.  
"the most vehement Yankee-hating guy I know" - Jay

by mauichuck on Mar 19, 2008 7:41 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Fausto's mechanics
If I don't see an R squared, I ignore it.

by Bogalusa Bomber on Mar 19, 2008 4:21 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Fausto's mechanics
My son found this guy's website on developing young pitchers and signed up for his newsletter - which is 8 pages of why everyone else is doing it wrong with pitching mechanics and why you should pay him for his analysis.

He's big on keeping the elbow of the throwing hand below the shoulder during delivery because he says it reduces the risk of shoulder injuries.

Meanwhile, every other coach, trainer, and orthopedic surgeon I've heard speak on this wants kids to keep the pitching hand high (with the elbow, of course, following) fingers on top of the ball and palm facing the outfield (what this guy calls showing the ball to CF).  The idea here is to reduce the bend in  the elbow as you throw and limit stress to the ligaments and growth plates around it.

I'll risk the unsubstantiated shoulder injury over the likely elbow injury when it comes to my kids pitching.   My oldest son drops his elbow all the time, and it's a habit we're working very hard to break.  

His pitching coach was in the White Sox organization but never made it to the ML, he coached Bobbie Brownlie, a 14 year old team that made it to the final four of the national championship, and a couple of the Kean University pitchers who won the Division 3 national championship last year.  I'll take that guy's view on the subject over this yahoo.

I don't trust his insights when it comes to kids, and I don't see what the point of this analysis is when it comes to grown ups.

"It's hard to win when you don't score." Cliff Lee, 9/28/05.

by Harry Doyle on Mar 19, 2008 5:02 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

+1!
May the Tribe be great in 2008! :-)

by indiansfan on Mar 19, 2008 6:18 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Fausto's mechanics
No.  His name is Bill Lehman.  He was drafted White Sox in the early 70's but never made it to the big league club.  

He tells a great story about being the last guy sent down during Spring Training every year, and another about giving up home runs to Carl Yazstremski.  

He works in North-Central NJ, mostly with kids from around this area from around age 9 up to college.  He's really good at working with kids, teaching them mechanics and strategy for pitching.

"It's hard to win when you don't score." Cliff Lee, 9/28/05.

by Harry Doyle on Mar 20, 2008 12:15 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Fausto's mechanics
I get pretty annoyed when people talk about how certain pitchers don't have perfect mechanics. A lot of Fausto's movement in his fastball is derived from his distinctive mechanics. If Fausto had perfect mechanics, he might end up throwing a 98 mph straight 4-seamer that would get rocked a la Jason Davis. A lot of major leaguers have quirky motions and there is a reason for that: it helps them disguise their delivery and makes it more difficult for the batter to pick up the ball right out of their hand.

by Roger Dorn on Mar 19, 2008 6:44 PM EDT   0 recs

Re: Fausto's mechanics
It's worse than that.  Pitching with any kind of "correct" motion is still more or less bound to cause injuries sooner rather than later.  It's probably accurate to say almost all pitchers are somewhat injured all the time.

by Jay on Mar 19, 2008 7:52 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Fausto's mechanics
It's a good point. This is all personal for me. I was an effective pitcher in high school until my coach convinced me to shorten up my delivery in order to have more fluid mechanics and decrease the chance of injury. It ultimately flattened out my fastball to the point of me being moved to the bullpen. Using this same delivery, I tore my rotator cuff and my baseball career was over, which adds to your point about all pitchers getting hurt.

by Roger Dorn on Mar 19, 2008 8:26 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Fausto's mechanics
From a pretty unscientific point of view, I'd agree with this.  I think long-term effective pitching consists of large parts dealing with pain and being able to walk to line between being hurt and being injured, similar to endurance sports.  I know a ton of people training for marathons or triathlons or whatever who are "injured;" I always to want to say, "Of course your legs hurt, you're running 60 miles a week. Now shut up and go run."  

Which isn't to say that pitching injuries aren't very real, but when a guy is whipping his arm around like that a hundred times every couple days (plus all the off-mound work), it doesn't matter how good your mechanics are, your arm is going to freaking hurt.

Il faut d'abord durer.

by CU Adam on Mar 20, 2008 10:36 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Fausto's mechanics
I definitely recall reading about Mark Prior's "perfect mechanics" and that was why he was a great draft choice (better than Mauer) and had more potential than Kerry Wood.

And we all know how that turned out - Onion link

by steincat on Mar 20, 2008 10:56 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Constantly updated Indians news, lots of in-depth analysis, live in-game discussions -- and more fanatical and thoughtful Indians fans than every other web site combined.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Topps1978-332f_small
Just how important is the draft?
Yw9dg4yi_small
Open Cliff Lee Just Won the Cy Young Award Thread

Recent FanPosts

Small
Free Agent Starters
3444ant_black_small
Depth Starters
Brick_small
40-Man Decisions - Who ya Got?
Small
Indians fans interested in Closer & 3rd Baseman?
47b8dd28b3127cceb64839d9746800000026102bauwjrq3za_small
It Must Be The Offseason.
Small
A Pronk Sighting
3444ant_black_small
Short-Term Depth: Infield
3444ant_black_small
Short-term Depth: Outfield

Post_icon New FanPost All FanPosts Carrot-mini

AL CENTRAL AFTER JULY 9

W L PCT GB
Cleveland 44 28 .611 -
Minnesota 38 34 .528 6
Kansas City 35 35 .500 8
Chicago 36 36 .500 8
Detroit 28 44 .389 16

FanShots

Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.

Recommended FanShots

BBWAA awards AL MVP to Travelocity Gnome
O/T: Christmas Ale has arrived! Christmas Ale has arrived!

Recent FanShots

O/T "A valuable substitute for vegetables"
Tazawa Junichi
Cliff Lee gets the Dugout Treatment
2009 Marcels
BBWAA do not screw up NL MVP, give it to Pujols
OMGICBWGHAFN - Matt Whitney
Lugo for Robertson or Willis?
Indians pursuing Hoffman, other closers
Yanks make CC an offer; can he refuse?

Post_icon New FanShot All FanShots Carrot-mini


Site Meter