Game Thread: March 20, 2008
Oh, c'mon people! It's Indians baseball, and this one's on TV!
Basketball is NOT more interesting than this.
As I write Byrd just hit B.J. Upton in the elbow and he's out of the game.
Also - the new Rays unis are ugly. And the logo. And the name change itself.
This had better be 300 characters. I don't want to have to copy over that text like usual.
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Re: Game Thread: March 20, 2008
Re: Game Thread: March 20, 2008
by Gradyforpresident on Mar 20, 2008 1:22 PM EDT reply actions
Re: Game Thread: March 20, 2008
Re: Game Thread: March 20, 2008
Re: Game Thread: March 20, 2008
Re: Game Thread: March 20, 2008
by Seattle Tribe Fan on Mar 20, 2008 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Re: Game Thread: March 20, 2008
Re: Game Thread: March 20, 2008
p.s: Andy Gonzalez just put the swing on a ball similar to what Marte flied out on.
THAT is Marte's biggest problem!
When he does try to go the other way (not often enough in my opinion,) he hits weak grounders to the 1B or he hits weak pop-ups; he can't seem to drive the ball with any authority the other way. That's why he hasn't developed into the player we were expecting - his difficulty going the other way with any consistent authority.
Just my 2 cents. :-)
Re: THAT is Marte's biggest problem!
That's true!
That's certainly true; I know I read a few reports questioning how good Marte would really be when he was coming up, and especially after he was traded from Atlanta to Boston to Cleveland. I too was skeptical, even when he was with Atlanta - probably because his numbers didn't "pop out" at me (especially his BA and his HR power being good, but not great,) though I probably didn't take his age into total account at the time, but I was still leery of him for some reason.
It's unfortunate though that he can't seem to master the skill of using the whole field consistently. Even if he had to cut back on the power by cutting back on his stroke to go the other way, I'd rather see that and have him hit a solid single or double to RF or CF than see him chop an outside pitch to SS or miss it entirely for a strikeout.
I think many of the Marte supporters thought he would learn that over time, but he hasn't to this point, and at this point, I have serious concerns he ever will, being essentially a pull-hitter and being almost an all-or-nothing hitter, except, in his case, it's not HR or nothing (he does walk,) but his hits will essentially all come to LF or left-center field, but little to no production from CF to RF. If he doesn't pull the ball, he likely will not produce, and that's why he might hit .250 at best at the ML level (and probably more like .230, though his OBP and SLG percentages will be borderline acceptable or even decent due to the fact he'll hit some HRs on occasion and draw a decent number of walks, but for the hype he received, I think most were expecting him to be more of a complete hitter than that, enough to hit .270 or better.)
Just my 2 cents. :-)
Re: Game Thread: March 20, 2008
Re: Game Thread: March 20, 2008
by Turkmenbashi on Mar 20, 2008 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Re: Game Thread: March 20, 2008
by Turkmenbashi on Mar 20, 2008 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Re: Game Thread: March 20, 2008
I go to a few college games every year (mostly Loyola Chicago, although now that I work at Northwestern I've gone to a few NU mens and womens games this year) but I find college basketball on TV one of the dullest experiences imaginable.
I really enjoy NBA games on TV, but college basketball (like hockey) just doesn't translate from live to TV.
Re: Game Thread: March 20, 2008
Re: Game Thread: March 20, 2008
Re: Game Thread: March 20, 2008
It's awesome to have Big 10 football right here in Evanston, even though NU clearly doesn't belong in the Big 10. The basketball teams are a joke. The men's soccer and women's swimming teams are pretty good, but other than that the athletic department here pretty much exists to be a punching bag for the rest of the conference.
Re: Game Thread: March 20, 2008
Re: Game Thread: March 20, 2008
Re: Game Thread: March 20, 2008
Re: Game Thread: March 20, 2008
Re: Game Thread: March 20, 2008
by Gradyforpresident on Mar 20, 2008 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Re: Game Thread: March 20, 2008
Re: Game Thread: March 20, 2008
The rest of the years I just have to take a non-descript day off to drink and watch the tourney.
by NickFantana on Mar 21, 2008 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions
Re: Game Thread: March 20, 2008
Re: Game Thread: March 20, 2008
As to the others, I've been running the office brackets for a numbers of years now. I love March Madness becasue I love to tabulate the results. Please I do enjoy the college game more than the pros, although I will watch the pro playoffs as much as I do March Madness.
Just a sport junkie I guess ... my wife's a saint for putting up with me :D
Re: Game Thread: March 20, 2008
I'll watch just about anything that involves guys wearing numbers and running around - but just for awhile.
Re: Game Thread: March 20, 2008
Re: Game Thread: March 20, 2008
Re: Game Thread: March 20, 2008
by Bogalusa Bomber on Mar 20, 2008 11:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Re: Game Thread: March 20, 2008
Re: Game Thread: March 20, 2008
Re: Game Thread: March 20, 2008
Re: Game Thread: March 20, 2008
by supermarioelia on Mar 20, 2008 11:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Re: Game Thread: March 20, 2008
Re: Game Thread: March 20, 2008
Most likely, though, since the lefties have options, Fultz will make it (ugh) and then I'd guess Julio (unless one of the others really does something great or he stinks it up).
Re: Game Thread: March 20, 2008
Re: Game Thread: March 20, 2008
Re: Game Thread: March 20, 2008
Re: Game Thread: March 20, 2008
Now, the numbers: 3 ER, 24.2 IP, 1.09 ERA, 17 singles and 5 doubles, zero HR and 3B, 2 HBP, 7 BB, 24 K. He wasn't just good, he totally dominated. He was even better over that short stretch than either Betancourt or Perez was in 2007 -- granted it was far fewer innings, but it was still total dominance.
I stress this because it's the part of the story that people tend to forget. They tried him as the closer not because they didn't have any good candidates, as with Mastny, but because he looked like he really might be a dominant young closer, like Papelbon or Gagne.
Re: Game Thread: March 20, 2008
Anyway, the point isn't really to rehash the Carmona thing but to consider how to handle Laffey. If Lee makes the team, which he will do unless he is consistently bad (still a possibility), does keeping Fultz and Mastny/Julio make more sense than keeping Laffey (in a bullpen role) and one of those three relievers? They'd still have quite a bit of depth at AAA (Sowers, Miller, Slocum?, and one of the AA starters from last year). And, Laffey could develop the way Westbrook did in a middle relief role.
Re: Game Thread: March 20, 2008
is this make stuff up to support my claim day?
i have never seen any evidence of this. he seems more level headed than most of our pitchers, including CC.
Re: Game Thread: March 20, 2008
Re: Game Thread: March 20, 2008
Just for the record, here are Carl Willis' comments on CC and Fausto from an interview last year:
"Pitching coach Carl Willis thinks so, even though the issues that kept both pitchers from reaching their potential have been emotional rather than physical.
''The biggest difference in C.C. now is that he has the ability to control his emotions and slow the game down,'' Willis said Tuesday. ''Now he can throw any pitch in any count at any time in the game. Before, he would become overemotional and tend to overthrow.''
It took a while for Sabathia to become a fully formed major-league pitcher. He began in 2001 when he was 20 and encountered a new set of obstacles every year. He would conquer one problem only to discover another the next season.
Carmona went through an acutely painful stretch of games last year as a rookie, when he was thrust into the closer role after little more than a month as a setup man. Carmona blew three saves and a tie, losing five games in the span of a week.
It was back to the drawing board for Carmona's handlers. He was dispatched to the less stressful environment of Triple-A, getting back his old job as a starter, which maybe he was born to be. Thankfully for the Indians, taking up residence in Baseball Hell for a week did not scar Carmona for life. Willis, in fact, thinks it had the opposite effect.
''Fausto went through a wide a set of experiences in a short time,'' the pitching coach said. ''It (becoming overemotional) is something we definitely have to be aware of, because he's a young pitcher. But I feel good about having Victor (Martinez) behind the plate. He does a great job of slowing Fausto down. And I think once he gets through the first inning, he'll be fine.''
Carmona also thinks he'll be fine.
''I learned from experience last year, when everything went so fast,'' he said through his translator, first base coach Luis Rivera. ''If I get into a situation, I talk to myself into slowing things down.''
Re: Game Thread: March 20, 2008
Re: Game Thread: March 20, 2008
by ken from alexandria on Mar 23, 2008 9:06 AM EDT up reply actions
Re: Game Thread: March 20, 2008
My vague recollection of direct quotes is that the Indians never thought Carmona would be particularly phased by those four games. He let his mechanics get out of whack, and they sent him down to Buffalo because he could focus better on getting his mechanics in order while switching back from the bullpen to the rotation, all things more easily done in the minors.
That does not mean Carmona is particularly emotional or was even in need of a less stressful environment, and nobody from the Indians has said those things. Ocker seems to be reaching to tie two things together that aren't really the same thing.
Re: Game Thread: March 20, 2008
Re: Game Thread: March 20, 2008
by ken from alexandria on Mar 23, 2008 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Re: Game Thread: March 20, 2008
I think Carmona's a great young pitcher and he's really handled himself well in some very tough situations. But, like a lot of young pitchers, as Willis says, he has had to learn to maintain an even keel. And, as Pluto says, not everyone has the right make-up to be a closer (he mentions not just Carmona, but also Shuey, Danys Baez, and even Betancourt, among others, as players who have struggled in that role, not because of any physical limitations.
Re: Game Thread: March 20, 2008
carmona, at the time, gave plenty of evidence that they ought give him a go at closer in a lost season. the indians well knew his makeup and knew if that was something he could or should handle. which he did - by going back and becoming a good starter again in a matter of weeks - brushing off the blown saves and the demotion. and again coming back the following year - bounced around again, to become a top 3 starter in baseball. THAT is evidence that he was emotionally up to the task - not the trite blatherings of a beat writer that thinks carmona falls into an archetype that makes sense to him.
Re: Game Thread: March 20, 2008
Also not sure why you're so angry at those sportswriters. Ocker is not much, but Terry Pluto is very astute and anything but trite. We're all being amateur sportswriters in a way, so let's give the good "professional" ones some credit!!
Re: Game Thread: March 20, 2008
i don't think either are true.
and i don't hate sportswriters, but their opinions are evidnece of nothing - in particular about the above two points.
and carmona didn't handle closing, but i contend he could and if not it wouldn't be due to his emotions.
Re: Game Thread: March 20, 2008
Lots of direct quotes from Indians personnel portray Carmona as a pretty cool character, a guy who laughs things off, a guy they had no doubt would bounce back from that handful of games.
I suggest you check out some video of his start in the ALDS, and take a close look. I don't think you'll find much evidence of a guy who "can't handle" stressful assignments or is particularly emotional.
Re: Game Thread: March 20, 2008
Re: Game Thread: March 20, 2008
who's doing that?
I'll stick to what I saw with my eyes (and will continue to note that others who were watching saw the same thing).
okay, well, i saw the opposite, and so did my uncle jim and aunt betty. so i guess we'll never know.

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