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Around SBN: Interview With UMD Athletic Director, Dr. Debbie Yow

Game Thread: March 23, 2008

CLE: Carmona
DET: Who knows?

Bonderman was scheduled to start, but is pitching in a B game because Leyland didn't want to showcase him to the Indians before it was absolutely necessary.

In other Tigers news, Granderson is hurt, and Miguel Cabrera is on the verge of signing an eight year contract north of $150 million. Blah.

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Re: Game Thread: March 23, 2008
Inge is playing center, otherwise it's pretty much the regular lineup.
Sizemore-Shapiro 2008. The Official Red Bull of Let's Go Tribe Game Threads.

by Gradyforpresident on Mar 23, 2008 1:08 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Game Thread: March 23, 2008
Quick 1-2-3 inning. Hafner strikes out to end it.
Sizemore-Shapiro 2008. The Official Red Bull of Let's Go Tribe Game Threads.

by Gradyforpresident on Mar 23, 2008 1:11 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Game Thread: March 23, 2008
Wondering if we'll see 2007 Hafner in 2008.

by crazymoloh on Mar 23, 2008 1:13 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Game Thread: March 23, 2008
I am worried.
Sizemore-Shapiro 2008. The Official Red Bull of Let's Go Tribe Game Threads.

by Gradyforpresident on Mar 23, 2008 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Game Thread: March 23, 2008
Sheffeld wacks a two-run HR off Fausto after Jhonny lets an easy ground ball go through his legs.
Sizemore-Shapiro 2008. The Official Red Bull of Let's Go Tribe Game Threads.

by Gradyforpresident on Mar 23, 2008 1:19 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Game Thread: March 23, 2008
Repeat after me: it's only Spring Trianing, it's only Spring Training............
"the most vehement Yankee-hating guy I know" - Jay

by mauichuck on Mar 23, 2008 1:52 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Game Thread: March 23, 2008
Jhonny with a bases clearing triple the other way, ties it up at 2-2 after walks to Victor and Pronk.
Sizemore-Shapiro 2008. The Official Red Bull of Let's Go Tribe Game Threads.

by Gradyforpresident on Mar 23, 2008 2:03 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Game Thread: March 23, 2008
happy easter easter for those who celebrate it.

by Brick. on Mar 23, 2008 2:21 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Game Thread: March 23, 2008
okay, i now concede marte is worthless.

by Brick. on Mar 23, 2008 2:23 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Game Thread: March 23, 2008
Yup. He sucks donkey balls. I hate watching his ABs. Its like watching Aaron Boone flashbacks.

by crazymoloh on Mar 23, 2008 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Game Thread: March 23, 2008
his hitting hasn't bothered me near as much as his D this spring.

by Brick. on Mar 23, 2008 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Game Thread: March 23, 2008
Here's to hoping that Wes Hodges tears it up in AA and AAA this year.

by crazymoloh on Mar 23, 2008 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Game Thread: March 23, 2008
I don't quite understand how a scout could watch Marte's hitting mechanics (and approach) and see ANY promise in him.

by crazymoloh on Mar 23, 2008 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Game Thread: March 23, 2008
well, that's why they're scouts and we aren't.  plus they're not fans of his team that have built up frustration in the guy overephasising every failure we see as vindication of our fears.

by Brick. on Mar 23, 2008 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Game Thread: March 23, 2008
It's true that I have the benefit of not actually watching him.

But again ... Marte has never done jack in his first 50-80 plate appearances at any level ... and yet after those first 50-80, he has succeeded at every level.

Why would Spring Training be any different?

by Jay on Mar 23, 2008 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Game Thread: March 23, 2008
I'm not one of those who is a big believer in the adage, "he's a slow starter."  There may be some credence to it but I think that if you're a professional ballplayer you need to come to play from day one.

And Marte's defense is not that great.  He makes some flashy plays now and then but I have seen him make numerous errors over the last 2 years where he hesitates.  On a ball hit to him that is medium to slow he often hesitates as to charging the ball or waiting back.  The result is that he gets caught on an in between bounce and the ball ends up playing him.  

I'd rate his defense as average based on what I've seen of him; not awful but definitely not way above average as he's been touted.  But then, I'm no ML scout so what do I know ...

by SpringTrainingFun on Mar 23, 2008 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Game Thread: March 23, 2008
I think that if you're a professional ballplayer you need to come to play from day one.

You're so right.

Obviously, they should abolish Spring Training.

by Jay on Mar 24, 2008 8:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Game Thread: March 23, 2008
Yeah Jay, you're probably on to something regarding spring training.  Has your research of Marte's first 50-80 at bats also shown that he also makes a bunch of errors and misplays a few balls that also easily be errors in his first 15 games of whatever season he starts ?  Brilliant stuff ...

by SpringTrainingFun on Mar 25, 2008 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Game Thread: March 23, 2008
Heh, let me start by saying, good luck trying to hurt my feelings on this.  Marte already has greatly underperformed not just my hopes but my expectations as well; that crow has been digesting for most of a year already.  All I've got left is the fact that he hasn't gotten a meaningful opportunity in the majors, but at least I can say that that is not a matter of opinion -- it is cold, hard fact.

Do the offensive struggles correlate with defensive struggles?  Yeah, I would assume that they often would.  If "settling in" really is the issue -- and I'm not saying it is, I'm just saying it could be -- it would make sense for him to show it on defense, and clearly he has.  How else to account for his five years of sterling defensive reviews in the minors, when every time we (briefly) get to watch him, he looks terrible?

I think the Marte haters have lost sight not only of just how little opportunity he's been given, but also just how much we have to gain by making a real ballplayer out of him.  He must be considered a bit of a longshot to stick as a regular at this point, but as I wrote recently of Matt Whitney, at least he's a longshot with huge upside.  And by "huge upside," I don't mean the traditional meaning of a high ceiling for the player's skills, I mean the team's ROI upside.  Having a solid player fill a key position for 5-6 years -- and cheap -- is worth tens of millions to the club, which translates to a dozen or more marginal wins.

by Jay on Mar 25, 2008 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Game Thread: March 23, 2008
One good zing is as good as another.  :) If you thought I was trying to "hurt your feelings" then I did a poor job of communicating.  You can take criticism as well as dole it out, and that's what makes this such a great forum.

Bottom line:  we're all rabid Tribe fans and we all want Marte to do well because as you correctly state, he would fill a key position on the cheap for several years.

It's baffling to me how he has been billed as a defensive wiz throughout his minor league career yet has been anything but that in his brief time in the majors and during ST.  I saw him last ST and we had similar discussions regarding his defense.  He hesitates on slow to medium grounders hit right at him, and the ball ends up playing him.

Obviously the Indians have to keep him on the roster to start the season.  But I think we can all agree that this was the least favorable outcome (aside from his outright release or DFA) that the front office had hoped for.

Maybe someone gets hurt early in the season and Marte will get the chance that he has not received (according to some) to this point.  Time will tell ...

by SpringTrainingFun on Mar 25, 2008 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Game Thread: March 23, 2008
Marte had 66 PA in the majors with the Braves. After that he has hit approximately .210/.275/.380 in the majors with the tribe. I don't call that success.

 

by oxforddave on Mar 23, 2008 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Game Thread: March 23, 2008
Geez, Dave, why would you even bother being this obtuse?

If you want to reject the idea of "settling in," then do that.  But don't pretend that Marte has had an opportunity to settle in, going up and down for 2.5 seasons, and mostly down.  Since his first callup, he's played 94 games in the majors and about 250 in the minors.

You want to argue that he's deserved nothing better than that, that's fine, but you can't claim is that he's had a chance to "settle in."  Here are Andy's seven callups:

June 05 - 42 PA
July 05 - 10 PA
Sept 05 - 14 PA
July 06 - 178 PA
April 07 - 41 PA
May 07 - 11 PA (return from rehab assignment)
Sept 07 - 8 PA

June 05 - 42 PA - 600 OPS
April 07 - 41 PA - 553 OPS

Obviously not good, but not remarkably bad for a couple of weeks, especially for a rookie.

July 06 - 178 PA - 708 OPS

Also not great, but a little better with a little more time to settle in.  But let's break it down:

Pre August 16 - 41 PA - 303 OPS
Post August 15 - 137 PA - 829 OPS

So to sum up.

  1. Only one time has Andy Marte been called up to the majors and given more than 42 PA.
  2. That one time, once he got beyond the 42 PA, his OPS was over 800.

And that is all I'm saying here.

by Jay on Mar 24, 2008 8:39 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Game Thread: March 23, 2008
Wow, that is some serious data crunching. I mis-understood, I didn't know that the 50-80 PA had to be continuous. I didn't realize that Marte must have to reset to ML pitching after seeing AAA pitching. I also hope that Fernando Cabrera gets over the WBC one day.

by oxforddave on Mar 24, 2008 9:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Game Thread: March 23, 2008
You call a guy up six times over two years, give him 10 to 40 PA each time, and what have you got?  Nothing.  A whole bunch of pitifully small samples that don't tell you a damned thing.  Obviously.

As further evidence of how thoughtless your comment is, Cabrera is an argument for my side of the argument, not yours.  He struggled after the WBC but still got into 75 more games before being released.  That's five more games than Marte has gotten into, despite the fact that Cabrera is a reliever rather than an everyday player.

by Jay on Mar 24, 2008 11:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Game Thread: March 23, 2008
i missed his previous ab's today, but pronk's eye seems just fine......... and as i type that, his POWER!

by Brick. on Mar 23, 2008 2:34 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Game Thread: March 23, 2008
so, you remember that sienfeld episode when george 'felt it move'.  i'm secure enough to admit the same when watching fausto pitch.

by Brick. on Mar 23, 2008 2:39 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Game Thread: March 23, 2008
Anybody getting today's game on TV?  Tigers announcers said the Pronk smash was as hard as a person can hit a ball - cleared the 40 foot scoreboard in right center.

Also, Marte completely botched a routine grounder with runners on 1st and 2nd.  Announcers said it should have been an error.  He tried to charge the short hop for a play at first rather than wait back and tag the bag.  Wedge must be working on a "serenity now" mantra. I wonder if guys like Marte and he-who-shall-not-be-named just need to play for bad teams to take the pressure off.

by pdxtribefan on Mar 23, 2008 3:51 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Game Thread: March 23, 2008
Marte misplayed a couple of balls, one for an error and another, the one pdxtribefan referred to, that would have been a nifty play if he had made it.  He handled a lot of chances today, Fausto was getting plenty of groundballs to the left side.

Hafner's HR was absolutely crushed, obliterated.  Ordonez never even flinched out in RF.

Betancourt looked good, Jensen Lewis did not.  Carmona looked like he did last year, he just made that one mistake to Sheffield; the baserunner on for the HR and the other run that scored later were both the results of defensive letdowns.

by InfiniteMonkeyTypists on Mar 23, 2008 6:02 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Game Thread: March 23, 2008
Can anyone explain why the Jays were able to buy out Reed Johnson's $3.275 million one-year contract for $546,000? Is it because he was still arbitration-eligible when he signed the contract in January?

by supermarioelia on Mar 24, 2008 11:23 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Game Thread: March 23, 2008
I believe he was on a non-guaranteed contract, so they only have to pay him a prorated portion of that since spring training or the beginning of the year or something to that effect. It probably had language in it like "If you are on the 25-man roster come April 1, this contract becomes fully guaranteed" since I think all major league contracts are guaranteed.

by zempf on Mar 24, 2008 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

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