Game Thread: March 23, 2008
CLE: Carmona
DET: Who knows?
Bonderman was scheduled to start, but is pitching in a B game because Leyland didn't want to showcase him to the Indians before it was absolutely necessary.
In other Tigers news, Granderson is hurt, and Miguel Cabrera is on the verge of signing an eight year contract north of $150 million. Blah.
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Re: Game Thread: March 23, 2008
by Gradyforpresident on Mar 23, 2008 1:08 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Game Thread: March 23, 2008
by Gradyforpresident on Mar 23, 2008 1:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Game Thread: March 23, 2008
by crazymoloh on Mar 23, 2008 1:13 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Game Thread: March 23, 2008
by Gradyforpresident on Mar 23, 2008 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Game Thread: March 23, 2008
by Gradyforpresident on Mar 23, 2008 1:19 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Game Thread: March 23, 2008
by mauichuck on Mar 23, 2008 1:52 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Game Thread: March 23, 2008
by Gradyforpresident on Mar 23, 2008 2:03 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Game Thread: March 23, 2008
by Brick. on Mar 23, 2008 2:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Game Thread: March 23, 2008
by Brick. on Mar 23, 2008 2:23 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Game Thread: March 23, 2008
by crazymoloh on Mar 23, 2008 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Game Thread: March 23, 2008
by Brick. on Mar 23, 2008 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Game Thread: March 23, 2008
by crazymoloh on Mar 23, 2008 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Game Thread: March 23, 2008
by crazymoloh on Mar 23, 2008 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Game Thread: March 23, 2008
by Brick. on Mar 23, 2008 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Game Thread: March 23, 2008
But again ... Marte has never done jack in his first 50-80 plate appearances at any level ... and yet after those first 50-80, he has succeeded at every level.
Why would Spring Training be any different?
by Jay on Mar 23, 2008 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Game Thread: March 23, 2008
And Marte's defense is not that great. He makes some flashy plays now and then but I have seen him make numerous errors over the last 2 years where he hesitates. On a ball hit to him that is medium to slow he often hesitates as to charging the ball or waiting back. The result is that he gets caught on an in between bounce and the ball ends up playing him.
I'd rate his defense as average based on what I've seen of him; not awful but definitely not way above average as he's been touted. But then, I'm no ML scout so what do I know ...
by SpringTrainingFun on Mar 23, 2008 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Game Thread: March 23, 2008
You're so right.
Obviously, they should abolish Spring Training.
by Jay on Mar 24, 2008 8:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Game Thread: March 23, 2008
by SpringTrainingFun on Mar 25, 2008 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Game Thread: March 23, 2008
Do the offensive struggles correlate with defensive struggles? Yeah, I would assume that they often would. If "settling in" really is the issue -- and I'm not saying it is, I'm just saying it could be -- it would make sense for him to show it on defense, and clearly he has. How else to account for his five years of sterling defensive reviews in the minors, when every time we (briefly) get to watch him, he looks terrible?
I think the Marte haters have lost sight not only of just how little opportunity he's been given, but also just how much we have to gain by making a real ballplayer out of him. He must be considered a bit of a longshot to stick as a regular at this point, but as I wrote recently of Matt Whitney, at least he's a longshot with huge upside. And by "huge upside," I don't mean the traditional meaning of a high ceiling for the player's skills, I mean the team's ROI upside. Having a solid player fill a key position for 5-6 years -- and cheap -- is worth tens of millions to the club, which translates to a dozen or more marginal wins.
by Jay on Mar 25, 2008 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Game Thread: March 23, 2008
Bottom line: we're all rabid Tribe fans and we all want Marte to do well because as you correctly state, he would fill a key position on the cheap for several years.
It's baffling to me how he has been billed as a defensive wiz throughout his minor league career yet has been anything but that in his brief time in the majors and during ST. I saw him last ST and we had similar discussions regarding his defense. He hesitates on slow to medium grounders hit right at him, and the ball ends up playing him.
Obviously the Indians have to keep him on the roster to start the season. But I think we can all agree that this was the least favorable outcome (aside from his outright release or DFA) that the front office had hoped for.
Maybe someone gets hurt early in the season and Marte will get the chance that he has not received (according to some) to this point. Time will tell ...
by SpringTrainingFun on Mar 25, 2008 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Game Thread: March 23, 2008
by oxforddave on Mar 23, 2008 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Game Thread: March 23, 2008
If you want to reject the idea of "settling in," then do that. But don't pretend that Marte has had an opportunity to settle in, going up and down for 2.5 seasons, and mostly down. Since his first callup, he's played 94 games in the majors and about 250 in the minors.
You want to argue that he's deserved nothing better than that, that's fine, but you can't claim is that he's had a chance to "settle in." Here are Andy's seven callups:
June 05 - 42 PA
July 05 - 10 PA
Sept 05 - 14 PA
July 06 - 178 PA
April 07 - 41 PA
May 07 - 11 PA (return from rehab assignment)
Sept 07 - 8 PA
June 05 - 42 PA - 600 OPS
April 07 - 41 PA - 553 OPS
Obviously not good, but not remarkably bad for a couple of weeks, especially for a rookie.
July 06 - 178 PA - 708 OPS
Also not great, but a little better with a little more time to settle in. But let's break it down:
Pre August 16 - 41 PA - 303 OPS
Post August 15 - 137 PA - 829 OPS
So to sum up.
- Only one time has Andy Marte been called up to the majors and given more than 42 PA.
- That one time, once he got beyond the 42 PA, his OPS was over 800.
by Jay on Mar 24, 2008 8:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Game Thread: March 23, 2008
by oxforddave on Mar 24, 2008 9:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Game Thread: March 23, 2008
As further evidence of how thoughtless your comment is, Cabrera is an argument for my side of the argument, not yours. He struggled after the WBC but still got into 75 more games before being released. That's five more games than Marte has gotten into, despite the fact that Cabrera is a reliever rather than an everyday player.
by Jay on Mar 24, 2008 11:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Game Thread: March 23, 2008
by Brick. on Mar 23, 2008 2:34 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Game Thread: March 23, 2008
by Brick. on Mar 23, 2008 2:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Game Thread: March 23, 2008
Also, Marte completely botched a routine grounder with runners on 1st and 2nd. Announcers said it should have been an error. He tried to charge the short hop for a play at first rather than wait back and tag the bag. Wedge must be working on a "serenity now" mantra. I wonder if guys like Marte and he-who-shall-not-be-named just need to play for bad teams to take the pressure off.
by pdxtribefan on Mar 23, 2008 3:51 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Game Thread: March 23, 2008
Hafner's HR was absolutely crushed, obliterated. Ordonez never even flinched out in RF.
Betancourt looked good, Jensen Lewis did not. Carmona looked like he did last year, he just made that one mistake to Sheffield; the baserunner on for the HR and the other run that scored later were both the results of defensive letdowns.
by InfiniteMonkeyTypists on Mar 23, 2008 6:02 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Game Thread: March 23, 2008
by supermarioelia on Mar 24, 2008 11:23 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Game Thread: March 23, 2008
by zempf on Mar 24, 2008 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

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