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25-man roster, Spring thoughts

Barring any unexpected twists in the final week of Spring Training, the Indians roster is likely set.  Here is the team which will likely be in the clubhouse next week, with a few comments on Spring performances.

Star-divide

Starting Pitchers:
CC - inconsistent this Spring, but I don't think too many of us are worried about the big guy
Fausto - Fausto's also had a less than stellar Spring, but again, I won't worry till April
Westbrook - 14IP, 5H, 0R, 4BB, 16Ks...wow
Byrd - His performance has actually been better than his numbers suggest as he's been victimized by his final inning a couple of times this Spring
Lee - Cliff was clearly the best of the three #5 candidates.  He kept the ball in the park and K'ed 10 guys in more than 13 innings.  
Missing out:
Sowers and Laffey will both have the chance to earn their way back onto the Cleveland roster while forming 40% of a pretty nice AAA rotation.

Bullpen:
JoBo - no health problems...
Betancourt - picking up where he left off
Raffy P - mixed bag, but that slider is still nice
Jensen Lewis - some concern about his velocity this Spring...something to keep an eye on
Masa - seems to be settling in pretty nicely
Breslow - he's no Aaron Fultz...uhh....
J. Julio - Julio seems to have nailed this spot.  If he can keep the ball in the yard and not walk guys (he's done 1 out of 2 this Spring) he should be fine...strikeouts shouldn't be a problem
Missing out:
Mastny and Mujica are in a similar situation as Sowers and Laffey.  They should get much more regular action in Buffalo, anyway.  And it appears Elarton will be around at least through June...

The Offense
Sizemore - on the cusp of being even better
Gutierrez - we haven't talked much about him, but he's had a stellar Spring...this could be the long-awaited coming out year for Gutz
Michaels - another unheralded great Spring, making it difficult to argue against him
Dellucci - not a good Spring, and this lingering forearm injury put him in doubt.  He's safe for now, but I don't think the FO is guaranteeing him a spot this season
Blake - Blake's had a quietly bad Spring...hopefully this will encourage the coaching staff to give Marte more time in the early season
Garko - also a quiet Spring, but I'm predicting a big season from Garko
Cabrera - picking up where he left off (.295/.360/.500)
Peralta - opposite field hits this Spring...good sign
Marte - wasn't it nice last season when we just forgot he existed?  At the plate he's had a good Spring, though...
Martinez - el Capitan only walked twice in 52 plate appearances this Spring.  Of course he only K'ed three times.
Hafner - Pronk, is that you?
Shoppach - Kelly had a great Spring...although 12Ks in 40 plate appearances is probably a sign of things to come
Carroll - Got off to a real slow start, but has picked things up of late...
Missing Out...
Francisco.  In reality, barring injury or meltdown he probably never had a chance to make the team given the organizational philosophy of depth, depth, depth.  The good news is his numbers in April will begin count even more than his numbers in March.  If he's hitting .400 on June 1st and he's not in Cleveland, it should mean the Cleveland outfielders are all healthy and hitting the snot out of the ball.  Barfield also never had a chance, and has had something of a positive Spring, but is clearly a work in progress at the plate.  The good news is he seems to be working on it.

1 recs | Comment 19 comments

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Re: 25-man roster, Spring thoughts
Get Brian Sabean on the phone. Tell him that for the price of Lincecum, he can have Mills, Barfield, Laffey and Francisco.

by crazymoloh on Mar 25, 2008 7:55 PM EDT   0 recs

Re: 25-man roster, Spring thoughts
Yes, I realize this will never happen. But if there was a way to get Lincecum without giving up Victor/Hafner/Asdrubal/Peralta/Gutierrez/Sizemore/Carmona/Miller/C.C, I'd say do it. Do it, now!

by crazymoloh on Mar 25, 2008 7:56 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: 25-man roster, Spring thoughts
Not having seen him pitch, I can't comment on what Linecum's upside is, but I have to wonder:  he's 5' 11", 168.  He has not pitched a lot of innings at any level in the minors or majors.  He did a nice job last year, although he's still the #3 starter for the Giants, who are pretty bad.   You have to wonder how durable he'll be at that size and with that limited a track record.

I really like Laffey and Francisco, and Mills is a recent high draft choice.  Barfield also has an upside which shouldn't be ignored.  I imagine that they'd want several players to get Linecum, so do you really want to trade your depth for a guy who is till largely untested?

by peter m on Mar 25, 2008 9:05 PM EDT   0 recs

Re: 25-man roster, Spring thoughts
Don't worry. No chance it happens (unfortunately).

by Joe. on Mar 25, 2008 10:12 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: 25-man roster, Spring thoughts
You seriously wouldn't make that trade?

by crazymoloh on Mar 25, 2008 11:14 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

While there isn't as much talk about Lincecum's mechanics as there was when we drafted him back in 2005, it's still a bit of a concern!

Hello crazymoloh,

You may recall that we drafted Lincecum in the 42nd round of the 2005 Draft. However, the Indians were not willing to meet the reportedly high signing demands of Lincecum, who had some major concerns regarding his mechanics at that time.

To some extent, they have been cleaned up, but they're still not as clean as one would like. Combine that with what peter m said about his size, and I can see why one would not want to trade all that for a young pitcher who has good upside, but only has 24 ML starts under his belt to this point (i.e. the league hasn't seen enough to adapt to him yet, or small sample size,) plus his BB/9 IP rate is a bit high, and has been pretty much throughout his professional career, mostly because of his "unusual" mechanics.

I can understand why you'd want to trade for him, but I think there's enough concerns about his mechanics and durability (due to his smaller size,) plus the fact he's only been around the NL once so far, that I can see why one would hesitate to give up a large package like that for him. Besides that, if Miller stays healthy (a sizable "if," for sure,) he probably could put up comparable numbers to Lincecum and be just as dominant, and we don't need to give up a large package for him. :-)

Just my 2 cents - no offense.

The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.

by indiansfan on Mar 26, 2008 8:13 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Hmmm......

A) You said: "To some extent, they have been cleaned up, but they're still not as clean as one would like."

Huzzah? What are you talking about? I haven't seen anything about the Giants trying to 'clean up' his mechanics. He is pitching with the same pitching motion he has always had.

B) We're clearly giving up a bounty with no question marks at all, right? Mills is the only person the Indians are giving up who has a high ceiling. Moreover, his high ceiling might come crashing down the more we get a look at him. Yeah, Lincecum ain't perfect, but his limited track record is better than everyone else's who we're giving up.

by crazymoloh on Mar 26, 2008 11:14 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I think it was while he was at the University of Washington during his junior year that his mechanics were improved a bit!

Hello crazymoloh,

Sorry for not being more specific - I think Lincecum's mechanics improved during his final season at the University of Washington, before the Giants drafted him with the 10th pick in the 2006 Draft. Lincecum's BB/9 IP during his sophomore year at Washington was 6.12 BB/9 IP, whereas it was only 4.52 BB/9 IP during his junior year.

From what I've read and heard, his mechanics are better than they were than when the Indians drafted him; there was considerably more concern about Lincecum's mechanics when the Indians drafted him than when the Giants did. They're still a bit of a concern though, especially with his relatively small frame, when it comes to how healthy he'll remain and whether he'll remain effective in the long-term.

That's why I'd be hesitant to give up the package you're suggesting. Yes, Lincecum had a very solid first year, but between the NL seeing him only one time and questions about how durable he'll remain, I'd be leery of making that trade if I was the Indians. Besides that, if Miller stays healthy (and that's a sizable "if" in its own right,) you'd probably have a comparable pitcher already in the farm system who you wouldn't have to give up any talent for. And Miller is "knocking on the door," so if he does stay healthy, he'd likely be contributing as early as this year, so it's not like we have to wait for him or have no data on guessing how dominant he can be, based on his track record in the Minors.

Preferably, it might be more advantageous to see how this year plays out - in regards to Miller, Lincecum, and Mills. We'll see if Lincecum can dominate at that high level again, as well as see if he can be a little more consistent in the strike zone (after all, he'll be facing DHs and solid #8 hitters over here who know the strike zone better than most pitchers do.) We'll also see if Miller can become that dominant pitcher we think he can become. In addition, we'll also see if Mills becomes that power-hitter we'd like to have, one who might arrive quicker than Weglarz likely will, based on their respective baseball backgrounds.

Plus, while the pitching staff would be quite good IF Lincecum can carry over what he did over there over here this season, you do take away some depth in both the OF and the middle IF, which could come into play if Dellucci/Michaels or Gutierrez falters or gets hurt, and/or if Cabrera falters or gets hurt. Especially in the OF, you don't have many "ready-to-go" options in the system if you trade away Francisco (Choo is not a sure bet to stay healthy at this point, and guys like Brown, Crowe, and Snyder will need at least a half-season to be ready, maybe even most of the season,) and Carroll probably would be better off as a utility infielder than as an everyday starter, but even if he does become the starter, who becomes the backup - Barfield? It could work, but Barfield doesn't have the experience Carroll has, and Barfield hasn't moved around the INF like Carroll has either. And, you have even less "ready-to-go" INF depth in the system than you do "ready-to-go" OF depth (you'd likely have to go with someone like an Aaron Herr or Andy Gonzalez as your primary backup or utility infielder; Josh Rodriguez and other internal options with potential likely wouldn't be ready by that point.)

Again, in this championship-contending season, I'm not sure the Indians want to make any significant changes that would upset their depth, since they value depth so highly, and that depth was a major reason why they were able to outperform the Tigers and win the AL Central last season, which is another reason why I don't think they'd make that trade.

Granted, the price for Lincecum may rise in the meantime, but I have a feeling the Giants might want even more than what you're suggesting for Lincecum right now, since they don't have to trade him and they are rebuilding (or at least, are in a "rebuilding" phase after losing Bonds,) and at this point, I wouldn't be comfortable giving up that large a package for that relatively small sample size where the NL has only seen him one time for the most part, combined with the question that there may be some durability and injury concerns with him in the future based on his mechanics and his relatively small stature.

It's certainly an interesting trade idea, and it does have some merit, but it's not without some risk and loss of depth, and that's why I think the Indians wouldn't consider that trade this season. During the next offseason, perhaps, especially if/when Sabathia leaves, Byrd leaves, and after there is more objective data on Lincecum's ability to produce at the ML level after NL teams have seen him more than once or twice.

Just my 2 cents - no offense. :-)

The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.

by indiansfan on Mar 26, 2008 8:13 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Goodness gracious.

Formerly known as "tribefan stuck in boston"

by BostonWahoo on Mar 27, 2008 9:01 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I have absolute confidence that Shapiro would do this deal, and I'm almost equally confident that Sabean wouldn't do this.

by ClarkM on Mar 27, 2008 9:52 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: 25-man roster, Spring thoughts
Re: Elarton, yeah, today's piece was the first I saw mention of this ...

Elarton has an out clause in his contract. If he is not on the Indians' big league roster by June 30, he can look for work elsewhere.

Sure seems like he'll end up on the roster this year.  I feel good about that.  I've been curious to see if he can retro-invent himself as a reliever, and he reportedly was a strong leader in the 2005 clubhouse.  Of course I don't want to put endless stock in that, but it's a fine quality to have in your #8 reliever.

by Jay on Mar 25, 2008 11:32 PM EDT   0 recs

I like the thought of having Elarton hanging around Buffalo with the likes of Sowers, Laffey, Miller et al. Not that Elarton was ever a great pitcher, but he was once a top prospect and he has spent a lot of time in different major league environments. I think that kind of experience is valuable.

by APV on Mar 26, 2008 8:44 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Love the 'tar, Jay. Can Chuck's be Ernest Borgnine?

by fleerdon on Mar 26, 2008 11:47 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I think its pretty much official... Julio was added to the 40 man and Elarton was sent to AAA. PD Link.
Barfield was also sent down.

Seems like the only order of business is to send Mastny to Buffalo. The PD acted as if there is still some doubt and that Mastny could somehow make the club over Breslow, but I don't see how that happens.

Of course, the first comment over at cleveland.com was "2nd place here we come".

See, this is what happens when I don't have LGT for an entire hour or so.

by DaytonDogg on Mar 26, 2008 2:00 AM EDT   0 recs

I'm pretty sure they want Breslow to make the team, but they may want to see him pitch a bit more than just one outing late in a game (when I think some of the hitters were late-inning scrubs). So, they'll probably keep Mastny dangling for a few more days. I'm also assuming they haven't optioned Francisco yet just to reward him for having a good spring. Or, are they waiting to see about Dellucci's injury?

by peter m on Mar 26, 2008 10:06 AM EDT   0 recs

i imagine both are "just in case something happens" kind a things.

by Brick. on Mar 26, 2008 10:31 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

don't make a move before you have to.

Sizemore-Shapiro 2008. The Official Red Bull of Let's Go Tribe Game Threads.

by Gradyforpresident on Mar 26, 2008 10:50 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Right. And in Mastny's case, if something happens in the next week to open up a spot -- not just to Breslow, but to anyone -- they might avoid using up an option on him for the entire season. So you just don't do things carelessly, or, like you said, before you have to.

by Jay on Mar 26, 2008 11:50 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

the just optioned him

by Brick. on Mar 26, 2008 11:55 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

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