Let's Go Tribe!: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:



Around SBN: Read our new Phoenix Coyotes blog! Bar-right-arrows



A Study of Playoff Roster Turnover: Part I

My wife is a wonderful person.  I came home from work on Friday to find her taping the Indians-Mets game for me even though I hadn't even thought to ask her to do so.  The poor woman knows she's about to become a baseball widow and she's still willingly contributing to my habit.

Anyway, I was watching last night and was listening to Mark Shapiro talk to Ravech and Kruk and they were talking about just bringing in Carroll and Kobayashi and not making a splash more akin to those guys in Detroit.  Mark was eloquent in his talking with Karl and the fat man about how it's rare to be able to return a team intact after a deep run into the playoffs.  And it got me thinking about former division champs and how much turnover one might expect following a division championship and whether there is a rough percentage of playoff roster turnover from year to year on teams the proceed from division champ to pennant winner/world series champ.  So I decided to take a look at an example from our own past, the case of turnover from playoff roster to playoff roster for the 96 and 97 Indians, where we went from division winner to pennant winner.

So let's start by taking a look at who we went to battle with in the 1996 playoffs.  

1996 Indians (playoff roster vs. Baltimore in ALDS)
C       Sandy Alomar
1B      Julio Franco
2B     Jeff Kent
3B     Jim Thome
SS     Omar Vizquel
LF      Albert Belle
CF     Kenny Lofton
RF      Manny Ramirez
DH     Kevin Seitzer

OF      Brian Giles
IF      Jose Vizcaino
IF/OF    Casey Candaele
IF    Nigel Wilson
C       Tony Pena

SP      Orel Hershiser
SP      Charles Nagy
SP      Jack McDowell
SP      Chad Ogea
SP      Dennis Martinez

CL      Jose Mesa
RP     Paul Assenmacher
RP      Eric Plunk
RP      Julian Tavarez
RP      Alan Embree
RP      Paul Shuey

Long story short, as everyone knows, we won the division, but fell short of the pennant to Baltimore, which almost sounds funny as I type it when I think of the shambles that that once proud franchise has fallen into.  

So some changes were in order, but not totally owing to a desire by the front office. Belle was a free agent, and even if the guy was an adjective compound noun, it's safe to say that we would not have sought to dump him.  Dennis Martinez was only 2 years away from retirement and was the only guy on the 25-man playoff roster to not appear in the series vs. Baltimore, so perhaps it wasn't a huge surprise to see him part ways with us.  

So a huge hole in left field, and a smaller hole in the rotation.  For Shapiro, that would be a small shopping list and one that likely wouldn't result in a ton of roster turnover.

Who else did we lose off of the 96 division winners?  Let's have an abbreviated look at the subtraction list (off of the major league roster)

Subtractions (Starters in Bold)
Lost as Free Agents
Belle, Martinez, Pena, Nigel Wilson
Again, a limited list lost off the playoff roster with Belle the only major loss, and we had an in house replacement for Pena (Einar Diaz) and Wilson, well, does it matter? Really?

What is worth noting is that we had Giles who could have potentially stepped into Belle's spot in the field.  Clearly, wholesale changes weren't required to field a very good team.

Hart did make some big changes though.  Let's peruse his trades in between the 96 and 97 playoff rosters and his list of signed free agents.

Trades:
Alan Embree and Kenny Lofton to Atlanta for Marquis Grisson and David Justice
Jeff Kent, Julian Tavarez and Jose Vizcaino to San Francisco for Matt Williams

Signed as Free Agents
Mike Jackson, Pat Borders, Kevin Mitchell, Tony Fernandez, Robby Thompson

Not everyone worked out, but some certainly did and the 1997 playoff roster eventually looked like this:

1997 Indians (playoff roster vs. some team from NY, Baltimore and Florida)
C       Sandy Alomar
1B      Jim Thome
2B     Tony Fernandez
3B     Matt Williams
SS     Omar Vizquel
LF      Brian Giles
CF     Marquis Grissom
RF      Manny Ramirez
DH     David Justice

OF      Jeff Branson
IF      Kevin Seitzer
IF/OF    Bip Roberts
IF    Casey Candaele (?)
C       Einar Diaz or Pat Borders (?)

SP      Orel Hershiser
SP      Charles Nagy
SP      Brian Anderson
SP      Chad Ogea
SP      Jaret Wright

CL      Jose Mesa
RP     Paul Assenmacher
RP      Eric Plunk
RP      Mike Jackson
RP      Alvin Morman
RP      Jeff Juden

My two question marks here are on Candaele and Diaz as they didn't appear in the playoffs, however, I am certain that Tony Pena did not return so my calculations would still be correct concerning the backup catcher on the playoff roster.  If someone can confirm Candaele, I'd be much obliged.

Bottom line, if you calculate the turnover from one playoff roster to the next, you find that in this instance, a 48%(!) change led to the team going deeper into the playoffs and falling just short of the WS ring, 52% if Candaele wasn't on the 97 playoff roster.  

In Part II of this posting, I hope to look at other squads who have followed this trend, i.e., got to a certain level of the playoffs one year, made some changes (or not) and returned and went deeper into the playoffs to see if there is any trend.  Part III (comparing our own 2007 and 208 squads) could be looked at on opening day, but would definitely be more relevant if I would come back and do it once we make the playoff and set the roster for 2008.

0 recs | Comment 9 comments

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Display:

Re: A Study of Playoff Roster Turnover: Part I
Thanks for doing this, it's pretty neat to see the shake-ups Hart made all laid out on paper.

One question for you though.  Are you contending that the 1997 team was better than the 1996 team?  Or better constructed for the playoffs?

I ask because the 1996 team was superior to the 1997 team during the regular season, and by a pretty healthy margin.

1996 - Record: 99-62; Pythag: 96-65
1997 - Record: 86-75; Pythag: 85-76

Once again, I don't think you were saying the '97 team was better (certainly don't want to put words in your mouth), but you do seem to think that the changes were responsible for a deeper push into playoffs.

by Pronktastic on Mar 8, 2008 3:29 PM EST   0 recs

Re: A Study of Playoff Roster Turnover: Part I
And by the way, does your wife have a sister?

by Pronktastic on Mar 8, 2008 3:29 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: A Study of Playoff Roster Turnover: Part I
Yes, but she's older, married and has two kids.  Tough luck buddy.
-Erik

by drerikbrady on Mar 8, 2008 5:11 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: A Study of Playoff Roster Turnover: Part I
I'm certainly not contending that the 97 team was "better" than the 96 team.  I'm just looking at the end result.  Whether any of this "analysis" amounts to anything is questionable at best.  But I did think it would be neat to take a look at the general trends in playoff roster turnover and see if there is anything worth noticing.

The hypothesis I started out with was that fewer changes would equal Championship!  I've already blown that hypothesis all to hell.  When I started looking at the differences between 96 and 97 though, I was floored by how much the makeup of the team had changed.  I don't expect to find nearly as much turnover on other clubs.  It could ultimately turn out that this example has most turnover between playoff teams of all.  Time will tell I suppose.

-Erik

by drerikbrady on Mar 8, 2008 5:11 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: A Study of Playoff Roster Turnover: Part I
Thanks, didn't think you were.  Looking forward to see the rest of your results.

by Pronktastic on Mar 8, 2008 5:31 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: A Study of Playoff Roster Turnover: Part I
The Burnitz for Kevin Seitzer trade seemed completely pointless to me even at the time--and I was, like, 13.  

by jhon on Mar 8, 2008 6:47 PM EST   0 recs

Re: A Study of Playoff Roster Turnover: Part I
It might be interesting to see what the average turn-over rate was for all teams.  I'll bet it's around 33%.
"the most vehement Yankee-hating guy I know" - Jay

by mauichuck on Mar 9, 2008 9:15 AM EDT   0 recs

Re: A Study of Playoff Roster Turnover: Part I
Yeah, I'm not sure that it will mean anything, but that's my plan, to take a look at teams that took the next step in the playoffs and see how much turnover they had.

 

-Erik

by drerikbrady on Mar 9, 2008 1:08 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Constantly updated Indians news, lots of in-depth analysis, live in-game discussions -- and more fanatical and thoughtful Indians fans than every other web site combined.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

3444ant_black_small
Top prospects

Recent FanPosts

3444ant_black_small
Post Thanksgiving, holiday shopping over-reaction thread
Dortmunder_l_small
Is it the economy?
Colbertcolbertcolbert_small
Indians sign RHP Greg Aquino
6bf2b36c-d841-4636-82e6-71e2b6de8763_small
Fausto... looks better than this.
Small
Take 5 seconds to vote for one of our own!
Hans_small
Adam Dunn anyone?
Topps1978-332f_small
Just how important is the draft?
Small
Free Agent Starters
Yw9dg4yi_small
Open Cliff Lee Just Won the Cy Young Award Thread

Post_icon New FanPost All FanPosts Carrot-mini

AL CENTRAL AFTER JULY 9

W L PCT GB
Cleveland 44 28 .611 -
Minnesota 38 34 .528 6
Kansas City 35 35 .500 8
Chicago 36 36 .500 8
Detroit 28 44 .389 16

FanShots

Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.

Recommended FanShots

BBWAA awards AL MVP to Travelocity Gnome

Recent FanShots

SI.com piece on Cot's
MLB.com top 50 prospects: Adam Miller makes #41
Indians pass on infielders?
Keith Law savages the Tigers farm system, and hey, does this Video FanShot thing actually work?
Fans' Scouting Report - Results
Pittsburgh signs Indians
Somehow, there are actually more closers available than teams chasing...
Alex Ramirez wins Japanese League MVP
Nice Pitching Line
Indians Interested In Hudson

Post_icon New FanShot All FanShots Carrot-mini


Site Meter