4/10 - Minor Lines
We've had a little over a week of action in Class AAA Buffalo and Class AA Akron. Not that this is any great feat, but Tribe hitters seem to a lot hotter in minors than they are in the majors. Pitchers? Not so much. Here are this week's minor lines.....
The Good.............
1) Andy Gonzalez is doing his best Barry Bonds impression in Buffalo. Let's see how long that lasts.
2) Brad Snyder and small sample sizes seem to agree. For now!
3) Wes Hodges, Michael Aubrey and Matt Whitney look to have packed their whuppin' sticks for the trip from Florida to Akron. Good to see.
4) The Beau Weglarz entity is rockin' the walks in Kinston (8 between the two of them).
The Bad..........
1) Ben Francisco hasn't gotten hot yet, but is walking at a decent clip.
2) Wyatt Toreagas still can't do much of anything with the bat.
3) Potential bullpen reinforcements - Mujica, Mastny and Slocum - have had a rought time so far.
The Ugly.......
1) Laffey and Lofgren have gotten tagged in a couple of their outings. Both are sporting WHIPs over 2.00.
2) J-Rod has one hit in 21 ABs, but has posted decent BB/K numbers (3:4).
HITTERS

PITCHERS
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What about Armando "Babe Ruth Sample Size King" Camacaro? A 1694 OPS in 8 at-bats, oh boy. Of course, the fact that he's older than I am makes him not a prospect, but don't tell Seattle that, maybe we can trade him for Felix Hernandez or something.
by zempf on Apr 10, 2008 4:38 PM EDT 0 recs
Wonder if Beau Mills makes it up to Akron if tears the cover off the ball for a month or two. Between Whitney, Hodges and Aubrey, there isn't much room at 1B/3B in Akron.
by crazymoloh on Apr 10, 2008 5:24 PM EDT 0 recs
Honestly, with all due affection for Whitney and Aubrey, they would have to be making convincing prospects themselves for the organization to let them hold Beau Mills back. When a very young prospect is dominating the competition, you almost have to promote him, because not only is he not developing against that level, he may get into bad habits if he faces unchallenging competition for too long.
by Jay on
Apr 10, 2008 6:33 PM EDT
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Yeah. Plus, I'd imagine Whitney would garner some interest on the trade market. Heck, he'd better than what the Giants are running out there right now.
by crazymoloh on
Apr 10, 2008 6:43 PM EDT
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Gonzalez is having the most success, but he also has more in front of him - Blake's $6M contract, and an untested Andy Marte. Although I heard a rumor about him playing 7 different positions in spring training, so maybe he gets a shot elsewhere, while we wait on Marte?
by maledicta on Apr 10, 2008 7:00 PM EDT 0 recs
Dude, don't fall for it. Andy Gonzalez is only going to break your heart.
by Jay on
Apr 10, 2008 7:05 PM EDT
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I'm not quite ready to sell all my Bear Stearns stock-holdings for him, but why? Defense is lousy, 26 is up there for a prospect, anything else?
by maledicta on
Apr 10, 2008 7:20 PM EDT
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What's the over/under for when a batter gets on base off of Jeff Stevens?
p.s: Wes Hodges is definitely the top non-Adam Miller prospect that I'm going to follow this year. Maybe he can pull a Droobs and get called up to replace Blarte.
by crazymoloh on Apr 10, 2008 7:28 PM EDT 0 recs
Blarte -- wow, that name really suggests a vaguely ugly clumsiness.
I dig Hodges, but do you really find him more interesting to follow than the new Bash Brothers, Mills and Weglarz?
by Jay on
Apr 10, 2008 10:43 PM EDT
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Only because there's atleast a slim chance that he gets called up this season.
by crazymoloh on
Apr 11, 2008 2:24 AM EDT
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Not a position player, but here's to Sean Smith...Today: 6 innings, 1 hit, 1BB, 5K
Age 24. Decent full season at AAA at 23. That's prospect status. Let the rise from obscurity continue.
by xrickx on Apr 10, 2008 8:00 PM EDT 0 recs
I was pretty dubious with the way your system ranked him, but it would be exciting if he could keep this up.
by ken from alexandria on
Apr 11, 2008 7:41 AM EDT
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Jeff Stevens Bandwagon Report
Not exact numbers, but if you include last year's playoff games, Stevens hasn't allowed a run in about 11 straight innings of work.
by Toxicadam on Apr 10, 2008 9:29 PM EDT 0 recs
Jeanmar Gomez Bandwagon alert. First start of the seasoon, 5 IP, 6 H, 1 R, O BB, 9 K, O HR. 19 yrs. old in High-A.
by ClarkM on Apr 11, 2008 12:58 AM EDT 0 recs
I'm curious to see when this guy catches on with people. Not if, when.
by Jay on
Apr 11, 2008 1:35 AM EDT
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Tony Lastoria has a very thorough report: http://indianstopprospects.blogspot.com/2008/01/jeanmar-gomez.html
by ken from alexandria on
Apr 11, 2008 10:27 AM EDT
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Thanks for the link. There is some good information in there, though there seems to be some discrepancy with the age. Also, I know a lot of people on here seem to like Tony, but I just don't respect him as a talent evaluator. Way too much of a cheerleader.
by ClarkM on
Apr 11, 2008 10:38 AM EDT
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I think as Tony has taken more on in research, interviews, visiting affiliates, he's become less the cheerleading fan and more of a reporter. However, his primary sources are the coaches, scouts and brass within the system, so his reports strongly reflect internal evaluations. Even if he were to remove his own opinion entirely, the overall tone would be hopeful first, critique to follow.
by mcrose on
Apr 11, 2008 11:30 AM EDT
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Tony has collected a huge volume of information from organization sources and visits, and in that sense he's like a mega-BA for the Indians, but it is true that you can tell he doesn't have the experience to weigh what he's being told with a refined perspective. I think people link to Tony a lot because he's posted by far the most info about certain players. I used his reports as a secondary source for the PTM piece.
The age discrepancy appears to come from his birthday being reported in some places as 2/10/88, but most sources (including official ones) report it as 10/2/88. That makes the difference between his being 19 or 20 during this season.
by Jay on
Apr 11, 2008 12:05 PM EDT
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Yeah, Lastoria's been excited about our young rotations on our A ball teams all spring. I like reading him too, a lot, but if anything he's half BA and half Indians PR for the guys. Nothing wrong with that, as long as peole recognize it.
by dgcambridge on
Apr 11, 2008 12:36 PM EDT
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Yeah, the other reason to link to Tony is that you get the photos and videos.
It's true that he's repeating what he's been told a lot of the time, but a careful reader can make something out of that, too. My only real problem with reading Tony is that I keep reaching for my blue pencil (compliment/complement confusion, for example).
by ken from alexandria on
Apr 11, 2008 3:54 PM EDT
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Well, that's true of 95% of blogs at the very least. I reach for the blue pencil on THT and even BP.
by Jay on
Apr 11, 2008 4:39 PM EDT
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To what we've already discussed, I'll add that unlike a member of a more traditional news media, Tony's access to the players and the organization is probably more dependent on friendly terms, so he probably doesn't have the luxury of saying everything that's on his mind.
by fleerdon on
Apr 12, 2008 5:21 PM EDT
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I think I should clarify that I don't think his stuff isn't worth reading, he provides information that just isn't availible anywhere else.
by ClarkM on
Apr 12, 2008 9:01 PM EDT
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Hello everyone,
I seen Gomez's line - he was even mentioned in the Minor League Games thread for 4-10-08, BEFORE I posted - thanks to "hybrid" for mentioning him.
Not to be overlooked (and perhaps you guys mentioned him while I was "away" yesterday,) 20-YO (and just turned 20-YO in January 2008) LHP Kelvin De La Cruz had a very dominating line of his own at Low-A Lake County on Wednesday, April 9:
5.0 IP/3 H/1 ER/1 BB/8 K
Overall in 2 starts so far:
10.0 IP/8 H/1 R/1 ER/3 BB/14 K, 1.67 GO/AO, .200 BAA
In 12 GS at Mahoning Valley last year:
54.1 IP/41 H/27 R/24 ER/5 HR/34 BB/53 K, 1.21 GO/AO, .216 BAA
While it's a SSS, it's nice to see De La Cruz harnessing that command, as his stuff is reportedly top-notch.
We've got an interesting "Latin American Quartet" building in the lower levels of the Minors with Gomez, Hector Rondon, Paolo Espino, and De La Cruz - I'm liking it! :-)
Add in guys like LHP Ryan Morris, RHP Christopher Archer, and RHP Mike Pontius, and I'm really liking our pitching depth in the lower Minors (and the upper-levels aren't bad either.)
Add in some good position player prospect depth throughout the system - the "Bash Brothers," Hodges, Drennen, Rivero, Cumberbatch, J-Rod, and even guys like Aubrey, Whitney, and Head (who made his '08 debut on Thursday,) and I think the farm system has some surprisingly good depth after basically filling out most of the Major League roster just a few years ago, and even with guys like Perez, Lewis, and Cabrera last season.
Another testament to Shapiro and company for their handling of the Indians' organization as a whole! :-)
Just my 2 cents.
The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.
by indiansfan on Apr 11, 2008 2:20 AM EDT 0 recs
... and Ryan Morris had a dominant second start as well. I think that will be the biggest story this year in the Tribe farm system - depth of quality young pitchers in A-ball, pretty much unheralded in any prospect preview.
by mcrose on
Apr 11, 2008 9:43 AM EDT
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I saw Gomez and Rondon make the PTM list, and lord knows this site is rabid when it comes to focusing on upcoming talent - Kelvin de la Cruz already has a nickname - but not sure even LGT has highlighted the amount of youthful depth (20 yrs and under) that's filling up the lower full season pitching staffs.
Even for this site its a little under the radar - that cohort contains no draft picks higher than 4th round, with a big emphasis on latin academy grads that usually don't register stateside until they appear in a boxscore.
by mcrose on
Apr 11, 2008 11:48 AM EDT
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It's funny, I regarded this as a key finding of the PTM piece, the amount of talent reaching High-A at a very young age. Gomez and Rondon make the main list, which is intended to be highly selective, but Espino and Archer also are mentioned as maybe-next-year guys. (Rosario is mostly mentioned for our amusement.)
by Jay on
Apr 11, 2008 12:01 PM EDT
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I just went back to reread it, and I see the Archer/Espino mention in the last category. I hadn't recalled a highlighting of the young pitching wave on first read, and. I think it depends what lens you're looking thru when you see players divide up over categories. To you, the youthful arms jumps out as a key finding - to me when I read it first, the emphasis didn't register as much.
From my own lens, when the minor league season ended last fall I was very interested in how aggressively the FO would place and promote the young arms. I had been surprised that Rondon, Gomez and later Espino had gotten the full-season nod last year over some of the college arms that we've traditionally seen at low-A. The fact that they held their own thru the season, joined by brief glimpses of De La Cruz, Frias, Chris Jones, Ryan Morris, Mike Pontius, Joey Mahalic and a couple others made me even more curious about the start of '08. None of these players really had enough experience to register in prospect rating systems, by virtue of lack of experience and absence of high draft slot.
When it became pretty clear that the youth emphasis on the pitching staffs would continue, I started looking at it as something I would follow pretty closely for myself, as a story, I guess - as a departure from previous protocol, and as a group of like-aged young guns that will be progressing and competing up the system, how they would fare, and if the (to me, welcome) shift in emphasis to youth and ceiling would pan out.
I know its early, but just from the first week of games, the results have been really good. In a couple months our farm system could be looking a lot better than anyone credited it for.
by mcrose on
Apr 11, 2008 1:01 PM EDT
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Hello mcrose,
"In a couple months our farm system could be looking a lot better than anyone credited it for."
As mentioned in my response below, I definitely agree with your last statement (probably, it will only take until the end of this year for most to notice our lower-level prospects and raise our organizational ranking accordingly, provided they continue to do well, but I mentioned "next year" just because some of them only update their organizational rankings annually.)
Just my 2 cents. :-)
The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.
by indiansfan on
Apr 11, 2008 5:04 PM EDT
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Thinking about this later, I realized that it probably seems different to me than to you or anyone else.
PTM by design errs on the side of exclusion, and in particular under-reports on low-minors prospects, preferring to take a wait-and-see approach unless the player has already done something concrete fairly remarkable. It was very, very unusual for the PTM criteria to "let in" four teenagers straight out of Low-A, while also spotting 2-3 more possibly around the corner.
Relative to PTM's tendencies, that's a lot of emphasis on very young prospects, but it might not seem that way compared to other prospect lists. In a similar vein, the mid-2006 list featured several relievers, who also are supposed to be under-reported by design.
by Jay on
Apr 11, 2008 5:46 PM EDT
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Hello Jay,
I think you did a very good job highlighting the young talent that is developing in the Indians' system, both pitching and hitting-wise, especially emphasing the very young talent that is appearing in High-A (Gomez, Rondon, Weglarz, Mills, Rivero, etc.)
Many of the national publications aren't aware of the quality depth (more than just some "names" that are mostly college draftees who are doing very well at lower levels like we would have had a few years ago; nowadays, we have mostly younger than league average who are putting up solid to great numbers at those levels, but most prospect evaluators haven't figured that out yet. They still think our system doesn't have "quality" or "blue-chip" depth, yet there are quite a few prospects in our system who project to have high ceilings at this point.) Many also seem to think that our farm system is quite poor because Miller/Lofgren/Crowe (who they consider to be our "top prospects," all had relatively poor years in 2007,) but don't seem to realize there is a considerable amount of projectable young talent at the lower-levels, most of which had solid to good years in 2007.
If those lower-level prospects keep progressing though, chances are, the national media will find out about them in another year or so. I think they're still a bit "shell-shocked" over Carmona's dominance, probably asking themselves, "How did we miss him?" :-)
Just my 2 cents.
The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.
by indiansfan on
Apr 11, 2008 5:01 PM EDT
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But what the people want to know is how well Cirilo Cumberbatch is doing.
Free Andy Marte!
by woodsmeister on Apr 11, 2008 11:04 AM EDT 0 recs
Why isn't Crowe playing? Hurt again?
Is Crowe the only fast guy in the upper part of the system? Power is good and all, but Garko and Marte aren't helping the pathetic team speed. I guess the only place to increase in speed is LF, as two traditional speed spots (SS and 2B) are held down by slow players for their positions.
by oxforddave on Apr 11, 2008 1:20 PM EDT 0 recs
Crowe was placed on the DL with back stiffness and Stephen Head was recalled from EST to take his spot on Akron's roster.
by Fundamentals on
Apr 11, 2008 1:24 PM EDT
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I don't even know why I bother to comment on Crowe anymore.
by oxforddave on
Apr 11, 2008 1:25 PM EDT
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What on earth makes you think Asdrubal is slow? The Indians aren't making him steal because they don't want him to focus on 10 million things at once. Remember, this is a kid who hasn't really had a legit season in AAA. He has a lot of learning to do.
by crazymoloh on
Apr 11, 2008 1:38 PM EDT
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I agree he's not slow (in the field); he seems to have good range and gets to a lot of balls (unlike the rest of the infield). But, he doesn't look to me like a guy who's ever gonna be a base-stealer of any significance. And, base stealing shouldn't be the issue. It should be taking extra bases and going from 1st to 3rd/2nd to home on a single. He looks okay to me on that, even if he does lead with his head!
by peter m on
Apr 11, 2008 3:33 PM EDT
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Joe Morgan says steals are awesome. That should tell you all you need to know. Speed kills, just ask Juan Pierre
by gte619n on
Apr 11, 2008 3:54 PM EDT
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Stolen bases are a good thing, I'm not sure where you heard otherwise. It is true that stolen bases are often overrated, and stolen base percentage is often neglected, but that doesn't mean that they aren't good.
by ClarkM on
Apr 12, 2008 9:05 PM EDT
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There are hardly any "base-stealers of any significance" at any position. Last season only 19 players stole more than 30, and only six stole more than 41. The 19 over-30 guys included just two middle infielders.
Among middle infielders, only four had more than 20, and only 11 (including those four) had more than 10. The 25th highest total, which might be considered an appropriate mean for the starters at two positions, was 4.
AbaCab stole 25 bases in 105 games in the minors last season. I'm sure he can be an above-average base-stealer in the majors at some point, but I'm also pretty sure the Indians are having him worry about every other part of his game rather than that. An intelligent guess would be that he's average speed or a bit better among shortstops, and well above average speed among second basemen. But that's just a guess.
by Jay on
Apr 11, 2008 4:51 PM EDT
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Started using it occasionally last week, I think. Something needs to break the deadlock, as nothing has really settled in. AbaCab has a lot going for it as a nickname.
by Jay on
Apr 14, 2008 3:32 PM EDT
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I was always a proponent of AsCab ... but I thought I might have mentioned AbaCab in a gamethread (I think I had a Genesis album on earlier in the day) last week. Didn't think I came up with the original but was just checking.
by talonk on
Apr 14, 2008 3:43 PM EDT
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Jay, I appeal to you. This is the same deal as Fausto.
Asdrubal Cabrera needs no nickname. His name is Asdrubal.
End of story. Please?
by Voltaire on
Apr 14, 2008 4:31 PM EDT
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Dean, yes, I think I did pick it up from you.
Volt, I'm really sorry, but the name Asdrubal while as unusual as Fausto is not as cool. Asdrubal is hard to say, plus it leads to certain dumbkoffs calling him "ass-dribble," i.e., people who have never been made aware that they are not funny and have never been funny.
AbaCab is easy to say, spell and type. It conforms to the over-done "A-Rod" style while giving it a breezy twist. It is the name of a popular record that, while light and poppy, also has some real substance and flair, and that was influential and enormously successful, plus, Earth Wind & Fire makes a cameo.
AsCab is flat, and some people hate it. AstroCab is fun, but some found it confusing – I made it up, and even I admit it isn't a runaway success. Buzz never really caught hold. AbaCab has many of the strengths of those names and few of the weaknesses. While not quite as fun as AstroCab, it may be more memorable for being less confusing, and it's composed entirely of letters that are really in his name, in the right order.
I'm not saying it's perfect, but at least it's easy to type.
by Jay on
Apr 14, 2008 5:00 PM EDT
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*sigh* I suppose so. But I'll keep yelling "az-droo-ball!" from the bleachers for as long as I can.
by Voltaire on
Apr 14, 2008 10:03 PM EDT
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I’ve got to admit, it makes me think of ABBA. Something’s wrong with me.
by dgcambridge on
Apr 15, 2008 11:15 AM EDT
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Since I am such a groupie, I went back and looked at all of Stevens' pitching appearances ... and he has only let up 1 run in the past 27 innings. (This includes playoffs, Fall ball, World Cup, Spring Training and AA season)
by Toxicadam on Apr 12, 2008 2:50 PM EDT 0 recs
Sadly, there's no stat that shows how many strikeouts were attributable to the batters' paralyzing fear.
by fleerdon on
Apr 12, 2008 5:22 PM EDT
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Even sadder, he got lit up last night. One of us jinxed him.
by ken from alexandria on
Apr 12, 2008 9:44 PM EDT
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He didn’t get lit up. He just poached a win. That’s some big league talent there.
by dgcambridge on
Apr 15, 2008 11:18 AM EDT
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Doh! Why didn’t I see that! Jeff (the Vulture) Stevens.
by ken from alexandria on
Apr 15, 2008 3:29 PM EDT
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JD Martin is quietly having some success out of the Akron bullpen. He picked up his second win today and in three appearances this season has given up just 2 runs (both in his first appearance) and 3 hits, walking 2 and striking out 4 in 7.2 IP. 2.8 GO/AO and .136 OPBA.
Is it too much to hope for a breakthrough from him, working in relief? Last year, also at Akron, he pitched exclusively as a starter, I think.
by macasson on Apr 13, 2008 8:01 PM EDT 0 recs












