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Early season thoughts

I know it's definitely too early to worry.  That's not what this is about.  But I want to see how everybody else is thinking about the season so far.

Early on I watched the Tigers lose and figured each of those losses gave us a step up in a 2 team race.  Now the Indians have been less than brilliant, albeit with 2 of 3 series's on the road to start, while a team like Kansas City looks pretty good early.

Am I wrong to keep looking at this as a 2 man race?  Are the Indians a flawed team?  Is it possible our division is as weak as the AL West?  Do I need to take off the glasses that obscure the records of the Royals, White Sox and Twins?

For now I'm still content measuring our post-season odds as our record vs the Tigers record.

What does everybody else think?  It's a long season, but are you still checking the Tigers box score right after the Indians or do you take in every game and hope the Indians rise to the top of the standings soon?

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The Indians haven't really settled in yet -- basically playing .500 ball and off to the slow starts they've typically had under Eric Wedge. The record itself is not worrisome (especially with 6 road games) -- the Red Sox, Yankees, and other "good" teams are playing similarly erratic baseball.

What DOES concern me is the way they've played. My biggest concerns, as I've said before, are a. that Hafner is not hitting the ball solidly and doesn't look like the Hafner of old; b. that the infield defense has been shaky, which has cost them some runs (and arguably some games); and c. that the bullpen looks unsettled (none of the guys they're counting on has looked solid, with the partial exception of Raffie Perez.)

Last year they won because their pitching was really outstanding, their infield defense improved over 06 (especially once Cabrera took over) and because they hit pretty well, even without Hafner. I don't think they can repeat last year with declines in all of these areas.

I think they'll hit better than they have (although I really worry about Hafner). I think the starting pitching will be fine (CC will get better, Lee has looked better, Fausto looks strong, and Westbrook looks set for a big year) -- Byrd is a problem, but remember we started out last year with Jeremy Sowers in the rotation, and he was horrible, but we had the depth to replace him (ironically, Sowers may BE the replacement this year!!). The relief pitching is more of a concern (again, remember 06). They need at least a couple of the key guys out there to join Perez and be consistent. The infield defense is a problem -- Blake and Peralta have reverted to form; they may need Marte to play and play well for that to change (I don't see them moving Cabrera to short and calling up Barfield unless Blake continues to be bad and Marte takes his place and is ALSO bad).

I haven't said anything about the corner outfielders. They've been horrible, but I don't think that the team's real problem is there (although it'd take some pressure off Hafner if someone would start to hit out there!).

Right now, I think they're playing like a .500 team, largely because of their strong starting pitching. If they can fix two of the three problems I think are central, they'll contend. If they don't, we're back to 2006.

by peter m on Apr 11, 2008 3:21 PM EDT   0 recs

Oh, and I forgot about the other teams. I think the White Sox are a .500 team. The Royals are likely to fade; they're very young and I don't think they have the starting pitching to really contend. The Tigers had better start to right the ship of they'll be in big trouble. It's hard to come back from a really terrible start and they have zero depth, so are very vulnerable to injuries or players who have a bad year. The Twins may be a sleeper -- if their starting pitching holds up and Liriano returns, they may actually be dangerous.

by peter m on Apr 11, 2008 3:25 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Hello peter m,

I share most of those concerns and think your analysis is pretty spot-on, outside of one exception - "Blake and Peralta have reverted to form;" - I agree Blake has looked poor at the plate, and also in the field to a lesser extent.

In regards to Peralta, I don't think there's a problem with him offensively, and I don't think there is a big problem defensively either - I don't recall any noticeable errors by Peralta that would suggest a problem.

Therefore, I don't think including Peralta in that group with Blake is accurate; Peralta has been one of our best hitters, with maybe Martinez being the only one who has matched or outdone him (Grady would be third-best in my opinion,) and defensively, I really haven't had much problem with Peralta; I'm more concerned about Blake's defense at 3B and Shoppach's defense behind the plate (though a few of those balls that got past him were almost uncatchable, though one or two of them looked like they could have been handled better.)

I think those are the biggest concerns on defense, and offensively, Blake, Gutierrez, and Dellucci/Michaels are bigger concerns in my opinion than Peralta is.

Just my 2 cents - no offense.

The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.

by indiansfan on Apr 11, 2008 11:46 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I think the team to worry about is the White Sox. They have arguably the best bullpen in the division and they have a 1-9 that can bash out a lot of homeruns. If they can stay injury free, they are going to be right there at the end.

-- --

I wrote in a post the other day. The last game in the Angels series has eased any of my concerns. We were getting drubbed by a playoff team (6-0) and we clawed our way back into the game. Just like what the 07 team.

That was the hallmark of last years team ... and it's still carried over into this year. i think we'll be fine. We just need some tweaking, so we can be firing on all cylinders come August.

by Toxicadam on Apr 11, 2008 3:24 PM EDT   0 recs

It's a long season. The main indicator I'm looking at at the start of the year is the rotation. Can Carmona duplicate? Is Westy's improvement for real? Can Cliff return to form?

So far I'm pretty encouraged, and if everyone stays healthy this could be the best Tribe rotation in a long time, and that in itself is a good way to return to postseason play. Particularly if Lee maintains his return to form, and bumps Byrd to the #5 spot where he definitely belongs.

Otherwise a lot of players look like they're still getting in gear, physically and mentally. I've said it before that Wedge's teams for whatever reason often don't come out of ST hitting the ground running, and while last year is an exception, this year is a return to form. Hopefully they'll wake up soon - I'm not worried about the long haul yet.

by mcrose on Apr 11, 2008 3:32 PM EDT   0 recs

Obvious Worries

1) Byrd: I don't have any problem with the FO's decision to pick up Byrd's option. Actually, I thought it was a good move, so long as the Indians viewed Byrd's option as a sunk cost and didn't feel the NEED to play him. After all, he'd just had a decent year and we still didn't know what we'd get out of Lee/Sowers/Laffey. With his prior admitted use of HGH (via. a dentist's prescription), I'm now starting to wonder if he's suffering for want of PED. If he is, and Lee continues to look good, I think the Indians can count on one of (Sowers/Laffey/Miller) to replace Byrd's HGH-less production.

2) Borowski: My worry has more to do with how many bad outings he's allowed before the FO/Wedge decides to send him the way of Fultz. Given our bullpen depth (both majors and minors), this isn't keeping me up at night.

Less Obvious Worries

1) Derek Shelton: The offense really has been sputtering for a full half season. Production was pathetic in the second half of '07. We were bailed out by amazing second half performances from Carmona, Sabathia and Westbrook. They were #1, #3 and #7 in second half ERA respectively! Is it time the Tribe starting thinking about getting some fresh blood in at hitting coach?

2) Conservative Promotions: Carmona, Lewis, Laffey and Perez weren't really expected to contribute in any meaningful way in 2007. But they were called up out of necessity and rose to the challenge. Granted, for every Carmona, there's Marte, but I worry that the Indians will be overly cautious with calling up their young talent unless their hand is forced. What if Hodges or Francisco are hotter than 20 suns, but the Indians are getting reliable, but less than mediocre production from Dellichaels or Blarte?

by crazymoloh on Apr 11, 2008 4:08 PM EDT   0 recs

p.s: We're gonna win the Central.

by crazymoloh on Apr 11, 2008 4:10 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I think it's still a two team race. The Royals are definitely moving in the right direction, but they'll need a LOT to go right to keep the pace that I think the Indians and the Tigers will set. The White Sox are potentially not a terrible team, but I'd bet they probably will end being one sooner than later. That's a ship without a captain and without a plan. The Twins are a mess, too.

I think that what the other three teams in the division are more likely to do than actually compete seriously for the division title is be good enough to make those games not a joke, and bring the records of the Tribe and Tigers down enough that the wild card might be tough to come by. Again.

Il faut d'abord durer.

by CU Adam on Apr 11, 2008 4:50 PM EDT   0 recs

I don't really see the Sox as better than the Twins. They have hitting, as you say, but their starting pitching is really suspect. The Twins have some good players (Morneau, Mauer, Cuddyer); their bullpen is usually solid. Their big weakness is in the infield, I think. Their starting pitching might turn out to be better than Chicago's: Hernandez has looked good, and Bonser and Baker have had some success in the past. If Liriano makes it back, they might be solid. I doubt they'll challenge, but I think they'll be better than people expect. They always seem to be tough, somehow.

by peter m on Apr 11, 2008 5:10 PM EDT   0 recs

morneau = not that good

Sizemore-Shapiro 2008. The Official Red Bull of Let's Go Tribe Game Threads.

by Gradyforpresident on Apr 11, 2008 7:51 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Name two AL first basemen better than him.

Burn on, big river, burn on...

by Turkmenbashi on Apr 11, 2008 11:32 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

It's not exactly the golden age anymore for AL 1B.

But anyway ... Pena, Youkilis, maybe Konerko and definitely Thome, Frank Thomas, Mark Teixeira outside of this particular 18-month stint in the NL, and Carlos Guillen.

by Jay on Apr 11, 2008 11:43 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Hm, Teixeira is in the NL, Thomas and Thome are DH's only. I'd take Morneau over Youkilis every day of the week. Konerko is tough, but given that he will decline before improving, I'd say no to him too. I love Pena, but that still is only 1 that I'd rather have than Morneau... it is close though, they both are young guys with one great season and a few just ok seasons.Guillen? Maybe, still getting used to him being a first baseman.

By most accounts Morneau is good in the field too, but I didn't look it up to see what the fielding "stats" say about that.

Anyway, Morneau= very good 1B

by DaytonDogg on Apr 13, 2008 1:57 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

2007 AL 1B VORP
1. Pena-68.5
2. Youkilis-31.1
4. Morneau-28.8
5. Garko-27.8
6. Kotchman-26.2
8. Konerko-25.4

2006 AL 1B VORP
1. Morneau-52
2. Konerko-47.7
8. Youkilis-19.6

2005 AL 1B VORP
3. Konerko-46.1
15. Pena-8
25. Morneau-.1

In valuing Morneau, one needs to ask how much stock do they take in his '06 season. If one thinks it is a career year, never to be approached again, due to his BA being 50 points higher than his career average, then he is lumped into the same group as Youkilis, Konerko, Kotchman, Garko, and Pena. If you think he is capable of replicating that season than maybe he is a notch above. The AL First Baseman are an interesting group, no real standouts, so while there may not be two that are clearly better, how many first baseman is Morneau clearly better than?

by ClarkM on Apr 13, 2008 11:07 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

A few notes on the comparisons, then I'll move on to the main point. Thome's being a DH is circumstantial, not definitive – and for that matter . The fact you'd take Morneau over Youkilis "every day of the week" only means you'd be wrong, slightly, seven days out of seven. They are pretty close to a dead heat as hitters, and Youkilis is the clear stand-out on defense. Without resorting to the "stats" that you fear, I'll just point out that his even being at 1B is just circumstantial; he was a solid 3B when the Red Sox were compelled to take Lowell in order to get Beckett. Two years later, Youkilis has a Gold Glove and has played more than 200 straight games at 3B without making an error – which is the all-time record, by the way.

But the real problem here is that Turk's whole question leads us to a fraud of analysis. It is often useful (or at least interesting) to rank within leagues, but all it does in this case is exclude all the best comparisons. First base does not have the same caliber of big-bashers that it had 5-10 years ago, and more to the point, all the big bashers at 1B are in the NL now. Here's some of the VORP leaders for 2007:

13. Pena
73. Youkilis
82. Morneau
86. Garko
97. Kotchman
99. Konerko

Those are only those who are currently AL 1B, and the main thing it shows us is the weakness of that position. In how many seasons do one league's first basemen only get one spot out of the top 72? Not many, I'll bet.

Now, then, let's add in the NL guys, including Teixeira – who spent most of 2007 in the AL, by the way, and probably will be in the AL next season. And just for kicks, let's put in the DH guys with an asterisk, since perhaps half of them could play 1B.

4. Ortiz*
9. Pujols - 72.1
11. Fielder - 69.1
13. Pena - 68.5
22. Howard - 53.6
24. Teixeira - 53.3
26. Helton - 51.9
30. D Lee - 48.6
32. Thome*
42. Berkman - 42.1
50. A Gonzalez
58. D Young
66. Cust*
70. Thomas*
73. Youkilis - 31.1
75. Loney
76. Hafner*
77. Sheffield*
80. Stairs*
82. Morneau - 28.8
86. Garko
97. Kotchman
99. Konerko
101. Hatteberg - 25.1

So now we see it for what it really is – as a hitter, Morneau ranks #20 if we count the DH guys, and #13 if we look at just the 1B. (This is similar, by the way, the way that Crisp could be called one of the very best LF in the AL in 2005.)

Now let's look at the numbers a bit, which are Runs after all. There are a number of ways to describe it, but I see a lot of spread between the top group and the bottom group, some spread among the top guys and little spread among the lower guys. Morneau is 40 runs behind the top 3 and 20 runs behind the top 7 (excluding the DH guys). Morneau is right in the middle of the #11 to #17 guys, who are separated by a mere 6 runs. In fact, he's not quite 10 runs ahead of Adam LaRoche (#127 overall) and only 15 runs ahead of Kevin Millar (#22 1B, #165 overall).

Which means: Morneau was twice as close to the #22 as he was to the #7 guy. This is not unusual in baseball -- the distribution is always uneven, with much smaller differences found outside the top tier. And that ultimately is the real point. Morneau is not part of that top tier, and that means he's not that much better than an average 1B. He's good, young, better than just solid – and he's healthy. But even in 2006, he was not a top-tier performer by any standard – Pujols, Howard, Jeter, Hafner, Cabrera and Ortiz all out-produced him by more than 25 runs.

by Jay on Apr 13, 2008 1:22 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Yeah, what he said.

by ClarkM on Apr 13, 2008 1:40 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Jay --

I appreciate the analysis, but I think you'r answering questions that weren't asked. If the question is "name two AL first basemen better than Justin Morneau," you can't analyze the entire NL roster of first basemen and AL DHs that never play 1B. I'll give you that the AL is weak at 1B. That's why Morneau is one of the better picks. Aside from Konerko and maybe, maybe Youkilis, there isn't anyone better. I'm not convinced Pena's 2007 wasn't a fluke, but he's starting to prove otherwise in '08.

Burn on, big river, burn on...

by Turkmenbashi on Apr 14, 2008 9:23 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I appreciate the analysis, but I think you'r answering questions that weren't asked.

And yet one someone posted, "Morneau = not that good", you responded with "Name two AL first basemen better than him."

One of our responses was totally arbitrary, we agree on that much.

That's why Morneau is one of the better picks.

Oh, I get it, this an AL-only Fantasy League discussion? There is no limitation on players moving between the leagues. The difference in quality of competition is worth considering, but it doesn't make a good player an elite player.

by Jay on Apr 14, 2008 12:30 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

i'm guilty of starting this entire discussion with that flippant remark.

Sizemore-Shapiro 2008. The Official Red Bull of Let's Go Tribe Game Threads.

by Gradyforpresident on Apr 14, 2008 1:05 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Guilty? It's always nice to be able to set the record straight on an over-rated player.

A lot of this comes down to semantics, of course, but I don't care what adjective anybody wants to use.

As long as its understood that Morneau falls somewhere between the #15 and #25 best hitters among all big-league 1B and DH, then the record is straight.

by Jay on Apr 14, 2008 1:17 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Doesn't Ryan occasionally do a piece about how good our guys are relative to the rest of the league? It's fun stuff.

by fleerdon on Apr 14, 2008 1:34 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Honestly, that was how I was looking at it... sort of like a fantasy pick. Obviously I'd rather have Hafner, Ortiz, Thome, etc. on my team. But I was referring to AL only players who play only 1B. Morneau is clearly top three in that bunch. Arbitrary? Sure. But that's all I was getting at. not saying I disagree with your analysis at all... Morneau is overrated, but still a top choice from within the (arbitrarily) designated pool.

Burn on, big river, burn on...

by Turkmenbashi on Apr 14, 2008 2:15 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Um, okay, as long as we're clear that this is only a solid point to make for an AL-only fantasy draft.

Better thing to do in a fantasy draft would be to wait until the later rounds, realizing that lots of 1B eligibles will be nearly as productive as Morneau for a lot less money.

by Jay on Apr 14, 2008 3:34 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I guess I got myself deeper into this than I wanted. The main point that I should have made in response to the original “morneau = not good” comment is just that he’s not that bad either. There has really been a backlash against Morneau since he won the MVP. Now sure, he didn’t deserve it, but a) there has been more egregious MVP winners in the past and b) that doesn’t mean he isn’t still a damn fine player. I’d take him over Garko 8 days a week.

Burn on, big river, burn on...

by Turkmenbashi on Apr 17, 2008 5:19 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Who ever said he was bad, let alone “that bad?”

I don’t think the difference between Morneau and Garko is particularly great, such that in any given season, it’s 50/50 that they’ll be just about equally productive. There’s nothing in the numbers to back up an “eight days a week” statement; maybe 4-5 days a week.

I’m not sure you can name two MVP winners less deserving than Morneau, but I’d love to see you try. We’re talking about a first baseman (and defensively average at best that season) who wasn’t even in the top 10 in home runs, who barely cracked the top 20 in OBP – a guy who was 120 points behind the third-best OPS. His finishing 4th would have been embarrassing.

Go ahead, find me two worse.

by Jay on Apr 17, 2008 7:31 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

You could argue both Garvey in ‘74 and Baylor in ‘79 were worse than Morneau.

by ClarkM on Apr 18, 2008 10:02 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I never argued he was a deserving MVP, but perhaps I didn’t realize how undeserving.

You win. Last word. Can we stop now?

Burn on, big river, burn on...

by Turkmenbashi on Apr 21, 2008 9:39 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I think, for both little-picture reasons (the actual losses on the books) and big-picture reasons (what those losses may indicate about the club's quality), the Tigers are going to have some trouble getting to 90 wins.

At this point, I think the Indians are even-odds for 90 wins, the Tigers for 85, the White Sox for 80, the Royals and Twins for 75. The 90 wins is not an aggresive pick for the Indians, actually, as I'm not even really considering the fact that Carmona and Westbrook might well outperform PECOTA by a total of 4 wins.

by Jay on Apr 11, 2008 6:08 PM EDT   0 recs

The key for the W.Sox is gonna be Joe Crede, IMO. If he stays hot, watch out for them.

by westbrook on Apr 11, 2008 6:44 PM EDT   0 recs

Hasn't this been said for the last three seasons? Crede is such a tease...

by gte619n on Apr 14, 2008 9:31 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

CC??

Are we worried about CC yet?

A friend of mine asked today if a reigning Cy winner has ever been sent down. I know he was joking, but if Byrd is done, we do probably need a 4th starter who can keep us in games after Fausto, Jake and (fingers crossed) Lee. I'm excited to see Laffey and the other 3 youngins, whatever the circumstances.

LeCavs.com!
If you were good enough, maybe we'd name it after you.

by Matt in LA on Apr 11, 2008 11:46 PM EDT   0 recs

Hello Matt,

Yes, I'm getting more concerned about CC - he looks little like the Aug. 2005-2007 version, as he's missing badly on the plate and he's overthrowing at times, something he hasn't really been doing during that aforementioned streak (outside of the 2007 postseason.)

Without CC returning to or more to his 2007 form, it's going to be very difficult for us to win 90+ games and get back to the postseason (unless Adam Miller, Aaron Laffey, or someone else is "lights-out" for us in 2008, which is possible, but you'd hope they are closer to that level for 2009 when CC and Byrd will likely leave the rotation. Expecting them to do that in 2008 might be a bit much to ask, though not impossible.)

Case in point, CC needs to rebound in start #4, or there's going to be even more concerned people in my opinion. He faltered against a White Sox team that he has mostly handled throughout his career, and while he has struggled against Oakland, that's mostly been at McAfee Coliseum, NOT at Jacobs/Progressive Field. That's why this trend is a bit alarming in my opinion, not keeping his team in either of the Oakland games, and only keeping them in the Chicago game because the Indians' offense jumped on Buerhle early and often (something the offense hasn't been doing as much of in the early part of the 2008 season - let's hope the offense can take some more pressure off of our pitchers as well, as that too could help Sabathia and Byrd find a good groove.) Let's hope he turns it around in start #4.

Just my 2 cents. :-)

The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.

by indiansfan on Apr 12, 2008 12:00 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

CC will be traded before he gets sent down

The funny thing is that many of us did not want to trade him this year so he could help us to the World Series; we may soon be asking that he get traded in order to help us to the World Series

by palcal on Apr 12, 2008 12:58 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

How do we trade him when he's playing like this? And at what point is his value so tanked that we're better off keeping him for the picks?

Suppose we fast forward a few months, what would you want for him? I guess I'd vote for a 2nd or 3rd baseman, corner outfielder or young talent. I'd happily move Ben Fran, Marte, Barfield or whomever else is a borderline player in addition for a major league talent if we're in the middle of a pennant push.

LeCavs.com!
If you were good enough, maybe we'd name it after you.

by Matt in LA on Apr 12, 2008 1:41 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Hello Matt,

Keep in mind that the only way we're probably getting a "Major League talent" if we trade CC is if CC is willing to open exclusive negotiations with that team, MLB allows a window of opportunity to sign him, and that team signs him to a long-term contract. Otherwise, we probably wouldn't get a "Major League talent" because he'd only be guaranteed to be with that team for the rest of this season, which would significantly reduce the value he has. At best, we probably get a few decent to solid prospects for him because he only has the rest of this year on his current contract.

Chances are, as mentioned before in the offseason, the only way CC gets traded is if we're totally out of the race by June or July; the Indians will likely think that their best chance of making the postseason and winning the WS is with Sabathia on the roster, not with whatever we can get in return for him, even with Sabathia's poor start to 2008. Therefore, I highly doubt the Indians will entertain trading him while they're still in the race.

Just my 2 cents. :-)

The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.

by indiansfan on Apr 12, 2008 1:52 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

The Giants have started well enough to contend in the wide open NL West. Seems like they could potentially be in the market for a (close to) native son. Do they have anybody we could use? Who else could he negotiate with? The Bostons and Yankees of the world?

LeCavs.com!
If you were good enough, maybe we'd name it after you.

by Matt in LA on Apr 12, 2008 2:05 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

The Giants have no chance of competing this year. That lineup is miserable.

by ClarkM on Apr 12, 2008 2:22 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

The Giants have started well enough to contend in the wide open NL West.

Have you seen their lineup? I'm pretty comfortable calling them the worst team in baseball.

by Ryan on Apr 12, 2008 9:03 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

What he said, except in utrasound. I highly doubt the Giants even manage a .700 OPS this year. However, they will finally help answer that question - "How many runs would a team of nine Josh Barfields score?"

by crazymoloh on Apr 12, 2008 10:39 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Apart from their record, the Giants have sunk a ton of money into Zito (with little reward). I doubt they'd sink even more into a second pitcher, especially one who isn't consistent.

by peter m on Apr 12, 2008 11:42 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Never underestimate the weakness of an owner's restraint, or the capacity to rationalize of a desperate GM.

by Jay on Apr 12, 2008 2:16 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I wouldn't dare! But, tying up 35 to 40 million a year on two pitchers is pretty wild, even for the most reckless GM. That's Yankees territory.

by peter m on Apr 12, 2008 2:40 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Here's their everyday players, with career OPS+ in parentheses:

C Bengie Molina (87)
1B Rich Aurila (100)
2B Ray Durham (103)
SS Brian Bocock (N/A) - 36 MLB AB
3B Jose Castillo (75)
LF Fred Lewis (N/A) - 197 MLB AB
CF Aaron Rowand (105)
RF Randy Winn (101)

And every player with an OPS+ over 100 is 30 or older. There's one guy (Rowand) who will be an everyday player three years from now. And this isn't really because of injuries - aside from Vizquel, this is the lineup the Giants envisioned going into Spring Training.

Add in a bad farm system and zero major-league depth, and you're one pitching injury from the 2003 Tigers.

by Ryan on Apr 14, 2008 12:27 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

So you're saying, if Zito gets injured, then they might be as good as the 2003 Tigers?

by Jay on Apr 14, 2008 12:54 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Hello Matt,

No offense, but I wouldn't say SF is really in that race - they're still in last place in that division, and the D'Backs are off to a 9-2 start, with the Padres at 6-4. (The early Wild Card leader is the Brewers at 7-4.) I think most would expect the Dodgers and Rockies (4-6 and 4-7 respectively) to turn it around, moreso than the Giants likely will.

If the Giants are within some striking distance of the NL West in late June-early July, then maybe they'll be in the market as a buyer, but chances are, they will likely be a seller rather than a buyer, though I don't know how many tradeable assets they have on that roster - Rowand, maybe? I doubt they can unload Zito, and I'm not sure if Vizquel's injuries will scare teams off from trading for him, though they might be able to pick up a prospect for him if someone is looking to add to their SS defense and add a contact, #2 hitter to their lineup.

Unfortunately, the Giants' farm system doesn't have a tremendous amount of notable prospects in that system (though they're making a few strides, but most of those with potential are in the lower levels of their system, so they would be for 3-4 years down the road, not someone who would likely help us in 2009 or even 2010.) Unless you could gain Cain or Lincecum, they really don't have much notable young talent, and while anything is possible, I wouldn't think they'd want to trade either of those two if they are planning on rebuilding (which some might say they are not doing with signings like Rowand, but arguably, they should be rebuilding, since they probably won't factor into the NL West race for a few years, at least.)

Just my 2 cents - no offense. :-)

The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.

by indiansfan on Apr 12, 2008 10:30 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

FIRE ERIC WEDGE

Not serious of course . . . just reviving Steve Buffum's (of the B-List) strategy from last year as a superstitious way to get the team rolling.

Then again, his recent lineups have been ridiculous bordering on downright irresponsible. If he doesn't want to watch Frank tank in RF, then Michael's ineptitude is, if nothing else, the perfect excuse to give Marte the final trial he needs to be given, placing K-sey in right, at least freakin' more than once every 10 games.

by DocNo on Apr 12, 2008 6:31 AM EDT   0 recs

Yes, DocNo. There's no way Dellucci and Michaels should be on the same field at the same time.

by peter m on Apr 12, 2008 11:44 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

The many concerns, valid and exaggerated, we have with this team pale in comparison to those in Detroit. And it's not improving rapidly: this afternoon, the Tigers are being Meg Ryan'd through five innings by Gavin Floyd.

by Fiddlesticks on Apr 12, 2008 2:15 PM EDT   0 recs

Meg Ryan is still in charge through seven innings, but Floyd is at 98 pitches and may not return for the eighth. White Sox lead 2-1; they have only 2 hits off Verlander (one is a homer by Orlando Cabrera.)

by Fiddlesticks on Apr 12, 2008 2:41 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Meg Ryan'd ? . . . please enlighten me.

by DocNo on Apr 12, 2008 3:23 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

upon reflection, I would guess a one-hit wonder? But this is Meg Ryan, actress, or am I missing something else? (I haven't lived in the U.S. for a long time . . . can miss references sometimes).

by DocNo on Apr 12, 2008 3:27 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

It's a reference to a post from an earlier game thread. It means "no-hitter," but I can't explain why without being banned.

by Fiddlesticks on Apr 12, 2008 3:59 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

The Tribe needs to peak around August-September. Just like last year, they are poised to come back from a slow start and gradually turn up the juice (no pun intended) thus reaching their pinnacle out about 45-60 days after the All Star break. They are a good enough team to play sub par (their standards) in May-June to win games during those two months, and then pull away from the opposition after the AS break. Does nobody remember this? That is the Tribe's signature move. Even playing .500 ball into June, Id be unconcerned, frustrated but unconcerned about the playoff picture. That's just me though, a Tribe fan for 20 years.

by lesterjl on Apr 14, 2008 2:17 AM EDT   0 recs

True enough, but they need to show signs they're addressing their problems. Sunday was encouraging: good games from Sizemore and Hafner, an early lead (a narrow one, mind you), a good start from Lee, and no defensive lapses to speak of. If they get good starts (c'mon CC and Fausto!) and play like they did yesterday, then they will have time to sort out the bullpen rotation and get on the kind of roll you describe. But, in the majority of games this year, Sizemore and Hafner have NOT produced (note how few runs Grady has scored -- partly because he hasn't been on base in several games), the defense has been shaky, and they have had too many non-quality starts. They can't kick the ball around for two months and have inconsistent pitching, then expect miraculously to turn it all around in June.

by peter m on Apr 14, 2008 10:55 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

"note how few runs Grady has scored -- partly because he hasn't been on base in several games"

Interesting theory, except that it isn't backed by the facts, unless your definition of several is one. Grady has been on base at least once in every game except one (The April 3rd 2-1 loss to the ChiSox).

by ClarkM on Apr 14, 2008 4:45 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

You're right. I'm not giving Grady credit for being on base as much as he has. It still seems to me, though, that he's not leading off games as brilliantly as he did for much of last year. We haven't scored much early in games, haven't had leads, and that puts pressure on the pitching. That's what gave me the impression (a wrong one, evidently), that Grady had not been on base as much this week.

by peter m on Apr 14, 2008 5:23 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

One more thought on this. Grady has walked five times this season (in 48 official at bats). If you assume he again has around 600 at bats, that projects out to around 63 walks on the season (decent, but well down from last year, when he was over 100). So far this year he's compensated by getting more hits, which is fine, but I hope he maintains his ability to draw walks as he did last year. I don't want him to be passive at the plate, but he's a better player when he's selective.

by peter m on Apr 14, 2008 5:31 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Well, try out the walk rate formula, which is (BB - IBB) / PA, which for Grady in 2007 is .123. At that same rate, Grady should have 7 walks by now, and he actually has 4.

On the one hand, this shows that you're right that the rate is less, but on the other hand ... the difference is 3. It's not remotely significant based on 12 games. It's like saying he's on pace for 13 triples, 0 doubles, 40 SB and 0 CS. All true, but not anything to get worked up about, in either direction.

by Jay on Apr 14, 2008 5:48 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I'm not worked up about it since, you're right, it's early in the season. Just joining in the universal pastime of looking for emerging tendencies. Still, if we're looking for things that have contributed to the team's early lack of success, while Grady has NOT been the problem, he hasn't contributed as much as he has in past years (as you say -- not very good power numbers thus far, either). I have every confidence that will change and the team will win more games as it does.

by peter m on Apr 14, 2008 5:55 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Well, it is true that he's only reached base to start the game 2 games out of 12 so far, and he actually hasn't had as much opportunity to lead off innings as usual, though again, we're talking about a handful of at-bats. Truth is, Grady has not ever done his best work leading off innings anyway.

by Jay on Apr 14, 2008 5:56 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

My thoughts?

The season is saved. I watched "Major League" for this first time in '08 last night.

Burn on, big river, burn on...

by Turkmenbashi on Apr 14, 2008 9:18 AM EDT   0 recs

Thank you. What took so long??

LeCavs!
If you were good enough, maybe we'd name it after you.

by Matt in LA on Apr 17, 2008 12:50 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

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