Detroit Tigers @ Cleveland Indians GameThread, Jun 1, 2007 7:05 PM EDT

When’s someone going to start a development academy in Japan? Is that legal?

by afh4 on Apr 17, 2008 10:10 PM EDT 0 recs

Its called the Japanese league?

NBR (No Borowski Run): Refers to that run which puts the Indians up by 4 over an opponent, thereby drastically reducing the chances of Joe Borowski pitching in a game.

by crazymoloh on Apr 17, 2008 10:12 PM EDT up 0 recs

Yeah but if you can keep them out of that you can sign them before they’re 30 years old.

by afh4 on Apr 17, 2008 10:13 PM EDT up 0 recs

That was a deathball if I’ve ever seen one.

by aufrank on Apr 17, 2008 10:11 PM EDT 0 recs

If.

by Jay on Apr 17, 2008 10:12 PM EDT up 0 recs

hey, I saw it just fine over the radio over the internet.

by aufrank on Apr 17, 2008 10:14 PM EDT up 0 recs

Wow, VERY impressive inning by Masa.

Love to see that guy settle in here.

"Mixed emotions. Rather see him hit PEDroia [with that pitch]. I don’t care if he is in the dugout"

by Gradysmanldy on Apr 17, 2008 10:13 PM EDT 0 recs

if the 9th spot comes up does marte get the at bat?

by mpstable on Apr 17, 2008 10:14 PM EDT 0 recs

Fausto has a 1.96? Did I just hear that right?

by afh4 on Apr 17, 2008 10:14 PM EDT 0 recs

he only had one poor start, and it was only poor because it was inefficient.

"Mixed emotions. Rather see him hit PEDroia [with that pitch]. I don’t care if he is in the dugout"

by Gradysmanldy on Apr 17, 2008 10:15 PM EDT up 0 recs

horribly, grotesquely walkariffiicly inefficient.

"Mixed emotions. Rather see him hit PEDroia [with that pitch]. I don’t care if he is in the dugout"

by Gradysmanldy on Apr 17, 2008 10:16 PM EDT up 0 recs

Yeah, I more or less realized that. It’s just that he’s sort of snuck by, like he did tonight, and I’m not sure the results truly match the performance. Well, obviously I guess. Nobody’s performance matches a 1.96.

by afh4 on Apr 17, 2008 10:16 PM EDT up 0 recs

I’m developing a man-crush on fausto.

Can we call him the crooked grill, to go with crooked cap?

"Mixed emotions. Rather see him hit PEDroia [with that pitch]. I don’t care if he is in the dugout"

by Gradysmanldy on Apr 17, 2008 10:21 PM EDT up 0 recs

Red Sox fan IM:

“I see Grady got hit, did that start it in Cleveland?”

my response:

“No, Bobby Seay hit him. Bobby Seay is not accurate enough to hit anyone on purpose, so the ump let it slide”

"Mixed emotions. Rather see him hit PEDroia [with that pitch]. I don’t care if he is in the dugout"

by Gradysmanldy on Apr 17, 2008 10:14 PM EDT 0 recs

Franklin looks instantly better in his approach.

by afh4 on Apr 17, 2008 10:15 PM EDT 0 recs

I haven’t been monitoring LGT tonight, so apologies for repeating what others have said. I wanted to say two things in particular. First, Wedge has had a far better night tonight than on Wednesday. He put Carroll in the line up, which was a great idea. And, he pulled pitchers at the right moments (for a change)—got Carmona out when he was still in great shape and recognized that Lewis wasn’t going to be able to pitch the 8th effectively.

Second, Carroll has earned more ab’s. He seems like one of those sparkplug types, and plays good defense. I say he should play again tomorrow, maybe at 2nd to give Peralta a much deserved chance to consider his approach at the plate.

Oh, and Carmona is the ace.

by peter m on Apr 17, 2008 10:16 PM EDT 0 recs

The idea that managers’ performances can be judged in “good nights” and “bad nights” is killing me.

by afh4 on Apr 17, 2008 10:17 PM EDT up 0 recs

So managers have no effect? I don’t agree. They get paid to decide who plays and who pitches when. Wedge did a nice job tonight and a poor job last night. If you think it’s just about the players, then I guess we should just save money on managers’ salaries (but I don’t think the pitchers will pull themselves at the right moment!!).

by peter m on Apr 17, 2008 10:19 PM EDT up 0 recs

But they aren’t psychic.

by Julie on Apr 17, 2008 10:20 PM EDT up 0 recs

No, but they should be able to see when a pitcher has nothing (CC last night, Jensen Lewis tonight). That’s my point about the difference between the two games.

by peter m on Apr 17, 2008 10:21 PM EDT up 0 recs

But you said he had a good night by putting Carroll in the lineup. If Carroll gets a hit, the manager did a good job, but if he doesn’t the manager is an idiot?

by Julie on Apr 17, 2008 10:24 PM EDT up 0 recs

No. Putting Carroll in made sense. Asdrubal has been awful for a long stretch and Caroll played well in Anaheim and showed some energy last night. So, I’m saying Wedge read the situation and made a good call. It’s even better that Carroll has played well tonight, but the point is that Wedge didn’t just run the same line up out there again and tried something to create a spark (batting the guy 2nd too).

by peter m on Apr 17, 2008 10:27 PM EDT up 0 recs

If Asdrubal had gotten a hit, Wedge would be an idiot.

Or something.

by afh4 on Apr 17, 2008 10:30 PM EDT up 0 recs

I don’t understand the argument. Is it just fate, or do managers make decisions (and can we praise or criticize them for the decisions they make?)

by peter m on Apr 17, 2008 10:31 PM EDT up 0 recs

All managers essentially act the same.

Managers have far less control over player performance than a myriad of other factors.

Unless your manager is acting like an insane person, he probably has no more influence on the game than any other manager would, so he has no impact relative to other managers.

It’s not fate. It’s players. As long as a decision is defensible, I don’t really care. Quibbling over lineup changes for one day, etc, like it’s the manager “playing his cards right” is for the Steve Phillips of the world.

by afh4 on Apr 17, 2008 10:33 PM EDT up 0 recs

I think what some people are getting at is, maybe your sig should say something like “king of hindsight”.

by Jay on Apr 17, 2008 10:33 PM EDT up 0 recs

+1

"Mixed emotions. Rather see him hit PEDroia [with that pitch]. I don’t care if he is in the dugout"

by Gradysmanldy on Apr 17, 2008 10:35 PM EDT up 0 recs

Agreed. This is knee jerkiness to the max.

by supermarioelia on Apr 17, 2008 10:32 PM EDT up 0 recs

I don’t understand the venom, y’all. All I said was that Wedge made some good moves last night with which I agreed, and didn’t the night before. I was afraid he’d leave Lewis in, and he didn’t. Good move. I thought it was time to give Cabrera a rest, and he did. I thought it was time to try someone else in the 2-hole (and he did). Obviously, it’s better that the moves worked. But, I’d have been in support of these moves even if Carroll took the collar and Kobayashi walked the bases loaded. I also think it was wrong to leave CC in the game so long the night before, and I explained why in a discussion of this with Jay.

I guess you’d all be okay with Wedge letting Borowski tough it out after the Boston game and continue to attempt to close games? That wouldnt be “Insane” inasmuch as many managers do exactly that kind of thing. But, most Indians fans would be howling if that happened. So, when Wedge makes a decision that works, maybe he deserves a little praise?

by peter m on Apr 18, 2008 9:41 AM EDT up 0 recs

It’s tough to gain credibility on manager critiques when you praise things during big wins and criticize things during big losses. When that’s all you’re doing, there’s no distinction between you and a nation full of reflexive, uncritical manager-haters.

Let’s see you praise some things Wedge is doing during a loss. Let’s see you praise some things that don’t work out - like playing Carroll when he turns out to have a bad night - and criticize some tings that work out well even though you think they were a bad idea. A manager doesn’t have the luxury of knowing that Carroll is going to have a good night, and lots of smart moves don’t work out.

In blackjack, you can decline to split aces and still end up with 21, but it’s still an idiotic move. But with your style of critique, I imagine we’d be seeing a comment like, you know, it was a good idea to keep those eights together for that hand, seems like we haven’t seen a lot of face cards lately anyway.

by Jay on Apr 18, 2008 11:59 AM EDT up 0 recs

As long as we’re criticizing “styles of critique”, may I suggest you chill? I haven’t attacked anyone personally or called anyone names. Apparently I said some things you disagree with, which is fine. Presumably we can have a discussion without attacking one another?

I can assure you I’m not a manager-hater. I have my reservations about Wedge, but he’s obviously an effective manager in many ways. And, I don’t quite see why someone would object to my saying (during the bad game) that he should bench Cabrera, then praising him for doing just that, for example. That’s just being consistent, whether you agree with me or not.

If you want a criticism of something Wedge did during a good game, see my suggestion that he needs to rest Peralta (with which you apparently disagree?). And, while I disagree with having sent Francisco to AAA in favor of playing Dellucci, I have acknowledged, more than once at this point, that he’s playing pretty well and contributing.

You’re obviously free to agree or disagree with what I or anyone else says, but let’s keep in mind that we’re all Indians fans and we’re on the same side here.

by peter m on Apr 18, 2008 12:26 PM EDT up 0 recs

peter, you’re still pretty new here. When people make a steady stream of what are considered to be BS arguments, they’re going to get called out. You asked for someone to spell it out for you, so I did, and then you got defensive and accused me of not being chill. Don’t worry yourself, I’m very chill, this is just a walk in the park.

Nobody likes being criticized, that’s understandable, but we all face moments here where we are forced to confront our own biases and orthodoxies. You’ll get used to it more, and walk face-first smack into it less, as time goes on. If you’re honest with yourself, you might realize that you’d be bristling less if you didn’t know that there’s at least a grain of truth in the criticism.

by Jay on Apr 18, 2008 1:21 PM EDT up 0 recs

I don’t mind getting called out. I do mind being lectured. There’s a difference.

by peter m on Apr 18, 2008 1:58 PM EDT up 0 recs

Okay then.

by Jay on Apr 18, 2008 2:25 PM EDT up 0 recs

A grain of truth, Jay?

I thought we were FRIENDS.

by afh4 on Apr 19, 2008 2:37 PM EDT up 0 recs

No, Andrew. It was all a lie.

by Jay on Apr 19, 2008 2:51 PM EDT up 0 recs

If Carroll is at 2B, does Peralta reflect on his approach with him in the field? or does Droobs factor in here?

"Mixed emotions. Rather see him hit PEDroia [with that pitch]. I don’t care if he is in the dugout"

by Gradysmanldy on Apr 17, 2008 10:17 PM EDT up 0 recs

Asdrubal could also consider his approach, but he sat tonight. Jhonny had one nice hit, but has basically looked hopeless for several games. Guessing fastball every pitch and swinging at almost everything.

by peter m on Apr 17, 2008 10:20 PM EDT up 0 recs

Sorry. I mistyped. I meant short.

by peter m on Apr 17, 2008 10:22 PM EDT up 0 recs

It is incredible the way that a manager looks better during an 11-1 victory than he does during a 13-2 defeat. Clearly, you have stumbled onto an important insight here.

Jhonny had a rough couple of games but was probably the best hitter in the majors last week—he slugged 950 or something like that. So let’s not jhump to conclusions or rhush to hysterics on the guy.

by Jay on Apr 17, 2008 10:32 PM EDT up 0 recs

He also is trying to pull everything again and is scuffling at the moment. I don’t think it would hurt to give him a day off (maybe not in the first Twins game, since a lefty is pitching) to regroup. That’s not hysterics. I like Peralta as a hitter and think he’s a good player. But, he gets away from his strengths at times—I think he’s in one of those streaks now.

by peter m on Apr 18, 2008 9:50 AM EDT up 0 recs

I checked out the “rough couple of games” argument, out of curiosity. Jhonny P’s stats for the last 7 games: 4/25, 4BB, 8K, 0 RBI, OBP .300, SLG .280.

by peter m on Apr 18, 2008 11:20 AM EDT up 0 recs

Correction: 2 RBI

by peter m on Apr 18, 2008 11:30 AM EDT up 0 recs

Your argument would be stronger if you didn’t even mention RBI.

Any way you slice it, it’s still just a handful of games, so the variance is enormous and the numbers just don’t say much.

Last six games: .091/.231/.091
Last ten games: .289/.372/.579

I give up, is he amazing or terrible? The last ten games - 951 OPS - includes the last six games.

I picked through the logs, it does look like he struggled a little for those six games, but he was still getting some balls out of the infield, and it isn’t anything that strange for just six games. There might be a reason for it, but there doesn’t have to be.

by Jay on Apr 18, 2008 1:30 PM EDT up 0 recs

Forgot to mention, his six-game BABIP is .143. He had a small rash of strikeouts, but it still looks more like can’t -buy-a-hit than can’t-hit.

by Jay on Apr 18, 2008 1:32 PM EDT up 0 recs

I still say resting him and playing Carroll makes sense. They used to do this with Thome when he got pull-happy, and it often worked. And, resting regulars once in a while is a good thing anyway. The SSS argument is true enough, but applies equally to the week when he was going well. I’m not at all arguing that he should be replaced or anything—just that he has hit poorly during the homestand and that a day off might do him (and the team) some good.

by peter m on Apr 18, 2008 2:04 PM EDT up 0 recs

a hit to each field and a walk would be such a huge night for Gutz.

by aufrank on Apr 17, 2008 10:16 PM EDT 0 recs

Felix Fermin! There’s a name I haven’t heard in a while.

by Julie on Apr 17, 2008 10:16 PM EDT 0 recs

this guy bautista looks like he could be rafy perez’s right handed brother.
i bet CC still has at least 15 lbs on the 2 of them combined

by mpstable on Apr 17, 2008 10:17 PM EDT 0 recs

CC is built for comfort.

"Mixed emotions. Rather see him hit PEDroia [with that pitch]. I don’t care if he is in the dugout"

by Gradysmanldy on Apr 17, 2008 10:18 PM EDT up 0 recs

and built for speed

by aufrank on Apr 17, 2008 10:18 PM EDT up 0 recs

He’s got 15 runs on ‘em, too.

by Fiddlesticks on Apr 17, 2008 10:18 PM EDT up 0 recs

/rimshot.

"Mixed emotions. Rather see him hit PEDroia [with that pitch]. I don’t care if he is in the dugout"

by Gradysmanldy on Apr 17, 2008 10:19 PM EDT up 0 recs

This ump is squuezing this dude pretty hard.

by afh4 on Apr 17, 2008 10:18 PM EDT 0 recs

Even the outs look good tonight.

by afh4 on Apr 17, 2008 10:20 PM EDT 0 recs

I think Jaimie Carroll should be given pie rights after this game. He’s certainly got enough grit.

It's the Arizona talking, really.

by RD74 on Apr 17, 2008 10:22 PM EDT 0 recs

OMG RAFFY IS CLOSING!

by afh4 on Apr 17, 2008 10:24 PM EDT 0 recs

hopefully he can handle thestress

by c9kay32 on Apr 17, 2008 10:24 PM EDT up 0 recs

I guess he needs “work.”

by peter m on Apr 17, 2008 10:25 PM EDT up 0 recs

I can’t tell what kind of reaction that is. Surprise? Horror? Delight?

by aufrank on Apr 17, 2008 10:25 PM EDT up 0 recs

I’m just laughing at all our concern over who would close, and then the next time we see the designate (and the pre-designate in the 8th) it’s to get the final three outs in an 11-1 game.

by afh4 on Apr 17, 2008 10:28 PM EDT up 0 recs

I’m not entirely clear on the Byzantine rules, but I think this is a non-save situation. Which, of course, means that your closer (or closer-designate) will suck.

by Fiddlesticks on Apr 17, 2008 10:25 PM EDT up 0 recs

Well he didn’t suck … which I guess proves he’s not a closer?

by Jay on Apr 17, 2008 10:34 PM EDT up 0 recs

I like that you left open the possibility that this was a save situation.

by afh4 on Apr 17, 2008 10:35 PM EDT up 0 recs

Borowski could have closed this one out, but the tying run would have come to the plate.

by elsandito on Apr 17, 2008 10:26 PM EDT 1 recs

Speak to Voltaire—this is the best of all possible worlds?

by peter m on Apr 17, 2008 10:28 PM EDT up 0 recs

Orioles win - following Jenks’ blown save - 6-5 in the bottom of 10.

by mplswahoo on Apr 17, 2008 10:27 PM EDT 0 recs

what should i hate more: that i am scoreboard watching on 4/17, or that it is the white sox whose scores i care about?

by mpstable on Apr 17, 2008 10:28 PM EDT up 0 recs

It’s all relative, I suppose. But, seeing them blow a game after failing to hold a lead late is never a bad thing. And, since they happen to be in sole possession of first place for the moment, all the better . . . .

by mplswahoo on Apr 17, 2008 10:31 PM EDT up 0 recs

Wow, are you folks hearing this about Borowski’s comments? Apparently he was going to yank himself from the lineup after Boston game, even if he sat them down in order.

So I ask you, what’s more improbable:

a) Borowski was going to bow out, or
b) Borowski was going to end an inning 1-2-3.

?

by aufrank on Apr 17, 2008 10:28 PM EDT 0 recs

Was he going to yank himself before/after Miller uncorks his nasty?

"Mixed emotions. Rather see him hit PEDroia [with that pitch]. I don’t care if he is in the dugout"

by Gradysmanldy on Apr 17, 2008 10:29 PM EDT up 1 recs

I’ve been trying to think of some response to this that won’t get me banned; but now I can stop, as you, sir, have knocked it out of the park.

by Fiddlesticks on Apr 17, 2008 10:30 PM EDT up 0 recs

I like Borowski as a guy (from what I can tell) but it sounds like he might be trying to save a little bit of face.

by afh4 on Apr 17, 2008 10:29 PM EDT up 0 recs

Aw, don’t kick a guy when he’s down.

Sit on him.

by Julie on Apr 17, 2008 10:30 PM EDT up 0 recs

I really feel good seeing Raffy out there in the 9th. I know its not a save situation, but after seeing Papelbon here it makes me happy knowing we have a guy who is going to slam the door. (and is capable of going more than 3 outs)

"Mixed emotions. Rather see him hit PEDroia [with that pitch]. I don’t care if he is in the dugout"

by Gradysmanldy on Apr 17, 2008 10:28 PM EDT 0 recs