Baseball Prospectus writeup on Lee

"I’d venture to say that half the pitchers in the majors today would struggle to put up those numbers if they got four starts in the [low Class A] Midwest League ... Lee's stretch of pitching is unmatched in at least 50 years, and quite possibly ever ..."

about 1 year ago haymister 19 comments 0 recs |

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IN UR FACE, PECOTA!

by Toxicadam on Apr 25, 2008 2:48 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Hard to believe Pedro or Gibson, or even Gooden in that fantastic 85 year never had that kind of a stretch. Heck even the Orel shutout streak I would have thought would have something close. But, nope.

As Stark likes to point out, that is why we watch baseball, you are almost assured to see something that rarely, or in this case never, happens.

by talonk on Apr 25, 2008 3:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

This upset him greatly, and he vowed never to pitch so poorly again.

by Brick. on Apr 25, 2008 3:14 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

MOST excellent line

by Denver Tribe Fan on Apr 25, 2008 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

After Jay’s post about how Sabathia had the worst 4 starts in a row for a indian pitcher, I was wondering where Lee would show up on the best 4 starts in a row for a indian pitcher. I had no idea that it would be the best 4 starts in a row of the last 50 years for any team.

by oxforddave on Apr 25, 2008 3:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Amazing how a 0.28 ERA shuts down all fan blog talk about your bad attitude.

by Denver Tribe Fan on Apr 25, 2008 3:44 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

It truly is. It’s also amazing how people keep expecting the wheels to come off (me included) but they don’t seem to – he just keeps getting better and better….

D*MN you Steve Phillips and your best lefty in the AL prognostications! I hate it when some evidence comes out that you might be less than completely incorrect!

So when’s the run on Lee jerseys and can we supplant the CC (non)extension talks with sleepy kitty extensions?

(Shall I be contrar and say we should trade high?)

Still the local "Barfield Bounces Back Believer" but also a developing a Gutz mancrush. Free Marte, Free BenFran, Free Laffy - 'nuff said.

by mjmarble on Apr 25, 2008 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I can love his play. And I can his performance without feeling the same affinity for him that I feel for Victor, Hafner, Grady. I’m almost in Chuck’s black-and-white territory when I say that Cliff Lee tipping his cap to the crowd burned a very deep bridge for me.

by tabler84 on Apr 25, 2008 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I didn’t like it, but there are a lot of ways to read it if you’re so inclined. There is that old saying, never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity. It was a dumb thing to do, and perhaps it showed poor character. But people do grow from experiences, and one decision in a moment of stress should not entirely define a man.

by Jay on Apr 25, 2008 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

especially when he’s pitching so well….

by ken from alexandria on Apr 25, 2008 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I really think it’s easy to overrate the cap tip. The athlete and the fan have a bizarre relationship and, frankly, I don’t mind him tipping his cap. To me, it’s probably a reasonable response to some guy in the second row yelling a homosexual slur at him.

I’m very much in the Bill Russell camp here: “You owe the public the same thing it owes you: nothing.” All of these gestures of “disrespect” between athletes and fans that get made into stories seem ridiculous to me. Why shouldn’t this kind of thing happen occasionally when strangers yell at you at your job every day? And if it’s as goofy as a mock hat tip, well, that’s funny.

People do things every bit as disrespectful as him tipping his cap millions of times a day while driving or standing in lines or whatever. I don’t know if even stupidity is fair. It’s just human; maybe a particular brand of human (sarcastic, doesn’t process emotions well on impact, whatever) but human nonetheless.

by afh4 on Apr 25, 2008 7:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don’t hold it against Lee at all, and I don’t really understand why some people do.

by gahnki on Apr 25, 2008 10:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I’m with you on that one

You have no idea the physical toll that three vasectomies have on a person

by jakesinger777 on Apr 25, 2008 11:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don’t intend to get into an existential debate about what players “owe” the public, but I’d say it’s something more than nothing.

No one - and I mean no one - hates the painful process of the autograph more than I do. I will never judge a player on their willingness to scribble their name. And I roll my eyes at fans who have one short moment with a player, and then judge a player’s life worth based on that fleeting moment.

That said, part of your job as a paid athlete is to provide the fans something more than nothing.

by tabler84 on Apr 26, 2008 12:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

My feeling on the cap tip borders on irrational, so don’t assume I’m proud of it. It’s just a visceral reaction.

It would have been mitigated, I suspect, had he subsequently gone on to say the “right things” and act in a classy manner.

But I am a fan of redemption. He’ll never be my favorite Triber, but as long as keeps his head down and works hard, I’ll be happy.

Remember, I’m the guy who roots - every single play - for Jamal Lewis to suffer a career-ending injury. I’m not terribly rational about some things. I’m working on it.

by tabler84 on Apr 26, 2008 12:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Agree with the basic idea above this, re: owing something more than nothing.

I don’t want to be an apologist or a relativist, but frankly, “staying classy” comes more naturally to some people than to others, particularly when it comes to “saying the right things,” and particularly on camera. The way someone’s personality comes across on-camera is often not reflective of their character at all.

by Jay on Apr 26, 2008 6:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Pattt- Boyo – why be concerned about your irrational reactions to sports? Being a fan allows – nay compels you to be irrational. That’s what there for. Scream at a guy for doing his job poorly outside of a stadium and you’ll probably end up in the pokey – I know I have. Wanna smack the baseball cap offa 6’9", 260-pound, sports playing jerk – go ahead, sounds perfectly reasonable to me. Go on and irrationally violently hate some guy you’ve never met. That’s perfectly fine in my world. Just don’t do it outside the stadium.

As to the tip of the hate thing – I love it. I guess this crotchety thing includes being a contrarian too – forgive me, I’m new at this. Here’s my take on Cliff Lee, based on purely unsubstantiated possibly apocryphal anecdotes. Rage is what fuels Mr. Lee (we all better get used to calling him Mr. Lee if he keeps on pitching like a hurling Roy Hobbs). It’s that I’m-gonna-show-you attitude that fires Mr. Lee. Frankly the hat tip was probably the mildest form of response to a braying bunch of ass-holes. My guess is that what Cliff really wanted to do was go up into the stands ala Ty Cobb, reach under one of the three chins on one of those pot-bellied, round-shoulder morons that were berating him and choke the God damned life outta "em. But being brought up in the Benton Missionary Baptist Church preclude Cliff from acting on his baser instincts. So instead of righteously killing somebody – or even giving them the finger – Cliff did the Southern gentlemanly thing and tip his cap – mockingly for sure – but at least there wasn’t any mayhem.

"the most vehement Yankee-hating guy I know" - Jay

by mauichuck on Apr 26, 2008 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs