Progressive Field Ranked Best Stadium in MLB by SI
Results of a survey by SI. Probably totally irrelevant, since it was an unscientific poll of a team's own fans.
3 months ago
Turkmenbashi
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So who do they feature in the accompanying photo? Those two cazzi cafones with their faces painted like Chief Wahoo. Make us all look a little da pazzi.
"the most vehement Yankee-hating guy I know" - Jay
by mauichuck on Apr 30, 2008 2:54 PM EDT 0 recs
Man I don’t want to get on this again, but what is everybody’s beef with those guys? Do you all hate the Bone Lady, too?
Burn on, big river, burn on...
by Turkmenbashi on
Apr 30, 2008 4:20 PM EDT
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My issue with them is that they bring negative attention to an issue I like to avoid.
by supermarioelia on
Apr 30, 2008 4:52 PM EDT
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I’ve been to I’d say 15 ballparks, probably. And the Jake is my number one, obvious team bias aside. All around. I think that’s an important distiction the article makes. Camden would be second for me, Miller and Safeco tied for 3rd. The old ones are neato and all, but i think the charm can’t carry them past their defficiencies aftter a game or three. I would NOT want season tickets at wrigley as an example.
by Brick. on Apr 30, 2008 3:55 PM EDT 0 recs
Generally I would agree, but I have to say that in my most recent trip to Progressive (i.e. last Saturday), I was severly disappointed with the food. Hot dogs are up to $4.25. An order of waffle fries costs $4.50 and nets you literally 10 luke warm fries. The pretzels are doughy and undercooked (not the first time this has happened) and they don’t have cheese. Worst of all, there are no onions anymore! WTF?
That said, it’s really not that big of a deal. Strange as it sounds, I don’t care so much about the quality as I do the prices. I don’t mind eating a crappy hot dog unless it costs $5. Nobody needs bull like sushi at a ballpark, but I gotta say I love that Nationals Ballpark has Ben’s halfsmokes available at every stand.
Burn on, big river, burn on...
by Turkmenbashi on
Apr 30, 2008 4:24 PM EDT
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quality… of beer…. influences my ratings greatly. Seattle is the tops by far that i’ve seen in that area. having great lakes at the jake is huge for that. and i don’t mind paying a lot for it. i tend to eat before or after games, so i can’t speak to the food really. i think the ticket prices are very reasonable in general.
by Brick. on
Apr 30, 2008 4:28 PM EDT
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I love A T & T Park. Great park and Anchor Steam. At most parks, I can find good beer, but it usually takes some time. There, they have Anchor Steam or Sierra Nevada at about every stand.
by ClarkM on
May 1, 2008 12:31 AM EDT
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One interesting thing in those ratings I noticed. After the Cardinals, the ratings for Fan IQ had the Red Sox #2, Yankees #3 and White Sox #4. I don’t know…..
by peter m on Apr 30, 2008 4:01 PM EDT 0 recs
keep in mind that the fans rated themselves in a sense. other than the cardials, the other 3 all think they are brilliant.
by Brick. on
Apr 30, 2008 4:07 PM EDT
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Maybe i’m jaded from living in St. Louis, but I can’t see them as having the #1 IQ. The older folks are definately great.
But the new ones? no way! I’ve seen two many waves get started during tense moments. For instance, during one game last year the fans started a wave when the other team had bases loaded and two outs when the Cards were down 1 run in the 7th.
by tyler083 on Apr 30, 2008 4:09 PM EDT 0 recs
Yeah, but I think that kind of thing is consistent in any ballpark with booming attendance.
If the baseball IQ is up at the Jake - IF - it’s mostly because attendance is down.
by Jay on
Apr 30, 2008 6:51 PM EDT
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Nice, I live in St. Louis as well. I have been here about a year and the one thing I have learned is that Cardinals’ fans are way into being Cardinals’ fans. They talk about themselves a lot and what great fans they are. Them rating themselves number one doesn’t surprise me.
Busch Stadium is pretty nice, but super expensive and there is not much else in the immediate area.
by ClarkM on
May 1, 2008 12:25 AM EDT
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Indeed. If ever make a comment to a friend, I get ridiculed. I think the have some amazing fans, but some of the new “there for the party” people get on my nerves. But as Jay said, that’s something you’ll find at a lot of places.
Now that I live within walking distance, I hope to make it down more often, maybe get to see Mr. Barton.
by tyler083 on
May 1, 2008 12:33 PM EDT
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I haven’t been to that many parks, but surprised that the Rangers’ park did so poorly. I was there in ‘95 and it seemed pretty nice to me.
by elsandito on Apr 30, 2008 4:19 PM EDT 0 recs
Where the @#$% can you get chicken and waffles in the park?
You know Selig? Ombudsman.
by rolub on Apr 30, 2008 4:28 PM EDT 0 recs
not sure that you can anymore, but it used to be out in cf if i recall correctly. that being said, i haven’t been to the jake in a year or two.
by dwight on
Apr 30, 2008 5:11 PM EDT
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From an aesthetic, affordability and food perspective … PNC blows away any other park I have been to (and I have been to 7 now). It’s just a shame that the product that have on the field is so awful, it probably drags their overall score down.
I love my Indians and the Jake .. but PNC park blows it away.
by Toxicadam on Apr 30, 2008 4:53 PM EDT 0 recs
i hear that a lot, but haven’t found other reason to go to the burgh to find out. what are the difference makers?
by Brick. on
Apr 30, 2008 4:58 PM EDT
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Well, I gave you two biggies .. price and food. The park itself is beautiful and very vibrant .. and the backdrop of the Pittsburgh skyline over the right field fence is very cool.
They have a cool setup right outside the park (pregame) with vendors, restaurants bars and other activities (carnival type games). Really adds to the atmosphere as you are walking up to the game after you cross the bridge (an old bridge for cars now designated for foot traffic only).
I was also very surprised at how clean the city was.
by Toxicadam on
Apr 30, 2008 5:13 PM EDT
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from what i’ve seen in pictures and tv aesthetically, i don’t think the two are different enough to be classified as ‘blowing away’ any number of parks, jacobs included. big yellow bridge. wow! not buying it. need to see the building and the views in person, though.
i jumbled the affordability and food in as one, which was my mistake. thought you meant the food was cheap.
never heard about that area outside. sounds interesting. is it FOR the stadium or is it just an entertainment area that has devloped around it that’s there all year and gets used all year?
by Brick. on
Apr 30, 2008 5:22 PM EDT
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I have lived in Pittsburgh for the past five years and PNC is a great place to watch a game except for the team you have to watch. the view is one of a kind, especially if you are in the upper deck right behind the third base dugout. great view of the skyline and the mighty allegheny river and all it’s bridges. i think that any ballpark built near water is cool, that’s why i like the giants park as well. kind of cool that you can walk up to the left field fence and watch without paying.
still love the jake the best, though. naming my soon-to-be first born son after it. well, that’s my reason. my wife says something about it being a biblical name.
by fivekmd on
May 1, 2008 10:23 AM EDT
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i’ve got to go, no doubt. i need another excuse to go to pittsburgh though. it’s not every day you desctribe the coolest seats in the stadium the ones in the upper deck at third base. got a buddy who’s a pittsburgh fan and came to the jake this year with me for his first trip there. he siad the two reminded him of each other.
by Brick. on
May 1, 2008 10:41 AM EDT
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PNC is also now offering all you can eat seats in the left field stands (i think) for $35. i believe the food options are limited to hotdogs, hamburgers, pop, ice cream, popcorn, so none of the extravagant items. i don’t think those seats are worth that much otherwise, so you must be willing to eat a good amount of food, but i good idea for a guy with young kids i guess.
by fivekmd on
May 1, 2008 10:26 AM EDT
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Oh, I should also mention that I have been at PNC park twice and both times had ideal situations (great weather, good ballgames and good seats). I’ve been to the Jake about 30 times. So, its kind of unfair to compare the two. I’m sure if I went to PNC park more often I would see the warts and shortcomings.
But, of the 7 stadiums I have been to (Cincy, Detroit (old and new), Boston, SD, Tampa and Toronto). It was my favorite.
by Toxicadam on
May 1, 2008 10:39 AM EDT
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it’s amazing what the weather on the day you go does to an experience. i’ve only been to comerica when it was snowing the first or second year, so i really don’t know what it’s like i bet.
by Brick. on
May 1, 2008 10:42 AM EDT
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I found PNC really overrated, to be honest. I found the layout difficult, traffic and parking was problematic, the food was terrible, and the seats were poorly aligned with the ballpark structure, resulting in seats where large horizontal bars were exactly in your eye level. (I suppose this is not true of dudes, who are taller, but whatever.) It was overall a pretty miserable experience. It’s not a dump by any stretch of the imagination, but it wasn’t as awesome as I’d been led to believe.
Disclaimer: this post doesn't mean what you think it means.
by AngG on
Apr 30, 2008 10:47 PM EDT
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I don’t like going to baseball games period. Too much music and waaaayyyy too many sound effects. Food prices are ridiculous, parking can be expensive, people are douchebags, and it’s much easier to actually concentrate on what’s happening without a 5 year old screaming in your ear. And the wave makes me want to kill someone. I hate that tradition soo soo much.
*this excludes playoff baseball as that is always awesome.
by gahnki on Apr 30, 2008 5:00 PM EDT 0 recs
The Jake.
The sound effects are flat out ridiculous. I hate that frickin’ “clap your hands” crap that is played every five seconds.
Going to games is not about baseball but pure entertainment. I understand that the casual fan enjoys it more that way but I certainly don’t.
by gahnki on
Apr 30, 2008 5:47 PM EDT
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man. i guess i just drink too much to notice that stuff. it’s just background noise to me.
by Brick. on
Apr 30, 2008 5:52 PM EDT
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Too much music and waaaayyyy too many sound effects.
It’s funny: I loathe screamy angsty “goon rock,” yet in a sports context (say, during the pop-up book styled montage that runs before the games), I find myself nodding my head and tapping my foot to it. Go figure.
Food prices are ridiculous, parking can be expensive, people are douchebags
Sadly, these are the biggest strikes against almost any public event you can go to, never mind ball games, yet I still get a real contact high out of simply being down there at the park and soaking up the atmosphere, so I am still willing to take some of the cons with the pros (unlike rock concerts, which I now almost completely avoid for most of the same reasons).
As far as the “douchebags” in particular are concerned, I generally only run into them when I’m stuck in the upper decks with the pinstriped/chowder-eating faithful, or when some loudmouth behind me has had a couple of beers too many.
And the wave makes me want to kill someone. I hate that tradition soo soo much.
That is pretty played to death, agreed.
--
Right now, I'll take .500 and run. I'm a cheap happy.
by vbc3 on
Apr 30, 2008 5:52 PM EDT
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I usually get stuck around a racist as well. I was by one who insisted on using the N word every time someone stood in his way.
by gahnki on
May 1, 2008 10:36 AM EDT
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usually get stuck around a racist and 5 year old screaming in your ear
you have some terrible luck man. i can’t say either of those things has happened to me in hundreds of at-the-park games. even in US Cellular.
by Brick. on
May 1, 2008 10:44 AM EDT
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Even with all that I end up going to the Jake 2-4 times a year just because I feel it’s an obligation as a fan.
by gahnki on
May 1, 2008 5:31 PM EDT
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I agree with the #1 ranking, but what is so great about watching David Ortiz?
The Disabled List just called ... it was trying to unload Joe Borowski. I offered a bagel but balked at giving up a ham sandwich. It wanted to keep Westbrook.
by westbrook on Apr 30, 2008 5:56 PM EDT 0 recs
More incredible is that Hafner ranked #5 for the Indians.
by Jay on
Apr 30, 2008 6:52 PM EDT
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Safeco
Being a Cleveland fan living in Seattle, i have to say that I think Safeco is a pretty great place to see a game. I’d rate it #3 behind Fenway, and the Jake (I refuse to call it anything else). Of course I’m biased, but I think the atmosphere of a ballpark is what makes these three stadiums better than others. Personally, I think PNC is a better stadium than both structurally, but it doesn’t have the same atmosphere as Safeco and the Jake. However, if I had to rate my favorite ballparks based on pure fun and making me feel like a kid again, it would be Fenway, Wrigley, The Jake, and Safeco.
by Conso on Apr 30, 2008 6:00 PM EDT 0 recs
No offense, but the only list Fenway tops for me is “Major League Ballparks I Most Want To See Burned To The Ground.” :-)
--
Right now, I'll take .500 and run. I'm a cheap happy.
by vbc3 on
Apr 30, 2008 6:09 PM EDT
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none taken. However, I love the time machine effect in Fenway. You can just feel yourself being transported back in time. There is nothing like a ballpark where today’s players play in the same structure as Babe Ruth, Bob Feller, Yaz, DiMaggio, etc did.
by Conso on
Apr 30, 2008 6:13 PM EDT
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I’ll bring the matches. If you are going to the ballpark to watch a baseball game, Fenway is the worst on my list. Unless you shell out $75, you are sitting in obstructed view seats or straining your neck to watch the game. A Bennie for a glorified bleacher seat (Green Monster seats)? Please!
You have to hand it to SI for not baking the numbers for Fenway to get into the top 5.
Yankees and Red Sox - MLB's Axis of Evil
(And ESPN is right in the middle)
by Spidey on
Apr 30, 2008 10:31 PM EDT
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Wow! Aren’t we being just a little hypercritical? They play major league baseball at these parks, right? What the hell else do you need? I’ve never – ever been to any baseball park and not enjoyed it enormously! Been to Wrigley – great park, you can almost feel Hack Wilson’s presence there. One a the boys mentioned some sausage joint near-by that sounds pretty good. Fenway – take the train in and grab a fish sandwich at the Quincy Market and avoid any of the "Irish" pubs, cuz you know Irish and cuisine don’t belong in the same thought. St. Louis – went with a buddy a mine from Walnut Grove – great park and great food. The fans there are terrific. Philly? Loved goin’ to the game in Philly – ate at Scannicchio’s on Broad St. before the game. It’s BYOB and you can get some sausage and figs with a huge plate of pasta for about twenty bucks. The Philly fans are a little more sarcastic than even Tribe fans but I enjoyed it – got my picture take with Greg Luzinsky – he’s got some kinda grill deal there at the stadium.
Went to a Nationals game with a bunch of the boyz from LGT – once at the old RFK venue and once at the new park. Had a great time both times – beers was a little pricey but the chow wasn’t bad. Plus some snappy patter from the LGT resident wits.
See it’s got nothin’ to do with the park – you can always find a work-around for whatever bugs you. Bad/expensive food? Eat before ya go. Beers too expensive? Have a couple-six before the game and nurse one or two cheap beers – if ya got a buzz goin’ before the game starts ya won’t even notice the taste of the swill ya just paid six bucks for. Loud obnoxious fans – go with some buds – ya can always drown ‘em out or break balls til they STFU.
Nope, nothin’ can ruin a trip to the ballpark – wherever ya go – cuz in the end a day at the ballpark beats a day workin’ anytime.
"the most vehement Yankee-hating guy I know" - Jay
by mauichuck on
Apr 30, 2008 11:45 PM EDT
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Chuck, you make me proud to be an American.
Burn on, big river, burn on...
by Turkmenbashi on
May 1, 2008 9:31 AM EDT
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i don’t know. i went to a handful of (non-indians) games at riverfront in july/august that weren’t all that enjoyable.
by Brick. on
May 1, 2008 10:09 AM EDT
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See, that was cuz you was in Cincinnati – that doesn’t count.
"the most vehement Yankee-hating guy I know" - Jay
by mauichuck on
May 1, 2008 11:48 AM EDT
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Are you going to the Tribe games in July? I am trying to plan a trip up there for the Sat game (I live in Portland/Vancouver area now)? How tough can it be to get tickets? Do I have to buy ahead of time? Or is it ok to walkup?
by talonk on
May 1, 2008 10:40 AM EDT
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I have never been to the Jake, the Prog. I however have been to Petco Park and can say that I think that is one of the best in the bigs. Not only do you have one of the nicest cities, but one of the newest, innovative parks now residing downtown. So yeah, that gets my vote. Others I have been to pale in comparison but then again I have been to Montreal, (whatever that place was called), Shea Stadium, held together by some 60 years of orange paint, and the old Jack Murphy errr Qualcomm.
by lesterjl on Apr 30, 2008 6:30 PM EDT 0 recs
One caveat, I have been to Municipal stadium before.. Never forget, nickel beer night!!
by lesterjl on
Apr 30, 2008 6:31 PM EDT
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This topic is raised at least once a year.
I don’t get to see many games anymore in person …. family man and all now.
But I have been to the following parks:
Old Municipal Stadium – only positive about that park, tickets were cheap and you could always move to the front rows early in the game.
The Jake/Prog – unfortunately, only have been able to see one game there, but what a game, Game 5 of the 95 Series. Awesome, awesome experience.
Fenway – me being a history type buff, this was an enjoyable experience for me. Yeah the seats suck, but a good portion of the fans were knowledgeable and respectful (of course this was in 99, before the championships). Saw a doubleheader against the Tribe in the heat of the pennant race. Fun fun day.
Yankee stadium – another historical place. Unfortunately, I relied on my buddy to score us some tickets and we missed the first inning, so I was unable to walk around the stadium, especially to Monument Park. Still awesome to be in that stadium, even if it was the Yankees.
Turner Field (Braves) – pretty blah all around, nothing too exciting
Coors Field (Rockies) – Very cool stadium to see a game in. Can walk around the concourse and see the game as you walk. Decent food too.
Dodger Stadium – still a classic after all these years. Traffic bites, but I just like this park.
PacBell/AT&T Park (Giants) – I love this stadium. Great views, great beer choices. The smell of garlic fries all around. Some of the fans are clueless, sipping their wine, not knowing what is going on, but still a fine stadium. 1000% better than ….
Candlestick Park (Giants) – What a dump. Slightly better than Municipal, but not by much. Plus, this is the only stadium that in the middle of July, you would have to dress in many layers and bring a blanket to stay warm because of the onshore flow in the afternoons. Bitter cold winds.
Chase Field/BOB (D’backs) – a pretty decent place all around. Nothing great, nothing spectacular … although the pool in right center is a neat “trick”, especially when full of ASU babes.
Angel Stadium/Edison Field/The Big A – been to a few games over the years in many differnt configurations. Still a good place to see a game. Traffic is much better than Dodger stadium (at least around the stadium, the freeways are always horrid). Rally Monkey stuff pretty much is grating. But a fun place to see a game. Kind of a mix between old stadium and modern styles with the recent renovations.
McAfee/The Coliseum (A’s) – another stadium ruined by football configuration. But I always liked going here for some strange reason. Could take BART to the stadium, (no worries about parking, except at the BART station). Some of the fans are boorish (most are Raider fans as well). But I could always get seats right behind the Tribe bullpen for pretty cheap ($20). Wish I could have seen a game here before Al Davis ruined it.
And am planning a trip up to Safeco this year in July. Will add it to my list.
Only other stadium I have to see before I die is Wrigley. Would love to see some of the newer ones as well, but I don’t see too many Midwest/East Coast trips in the future, so we’ll see.
by talonk on May 1, 2008 11:08 AM EDT 0 recs
On the knowledgeable fans at Fenway—that’s the only place I’ve ever sat where people in the upper rows of the bleachers throw open mustard packs down the stands to see whose coats they can stain. That shows great knowledge of baseball and demonstrates extreme command of their pitches, I guess.
by peter m on
May 1, 2008 11:57 AM EDT
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Well Pete why didn’t you go up and tell ‘em to cut it out? I find that when you confront drunken cosa fastidiosa they usually slither away. It’s only when they can do their idiocy anonomously that they continue. Failing that tell ‘em if they drop a packet of mustard on you they’ll be wearing the ass for a hat. That usually works.
"the most vehement Yankee-hating guy I know" - Jay
by mauichuck on
May 1, 2008 12:05 PM EDT
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You got it. That’s what we did. Just like Wedge with that 2nd base ump!
by peter m on
May 1, 2008 1:05 PM EDT
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I did say this was in 99 before they finally won it all right?
The guys I sat next to in the center field bleachers were pretty cool with me. That may have changed over the last 10 years … but I had a good experience.
by talonk on
May 1, 2008 12:32 PM EDT
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Darren Rovell made a blog post yesterday, bringing up some good points about the validity of such a list determined by fans themselves.
I felt compelled to email him regarding the point about the Indians attendance, and to my surprise, 40 minutes later I get a call at work from “Darren at CNBC”. He was shocked to hear about the gameday pricing for Indians tickets.
Here’s the email I sent him:
Darren,I completely agree that the categories should not be weighted equally, or weighted at all. For example, how can fans determine FanIQ? If you ask Hank Steinbrenner how much he knows about baseball, he’ll probably tell you he knows a lot… others (probably Brian Cashman, although he’d never admit it) would disagree.
Regarding attendance this year at Jacobs Field… uhhh, Progressive Park. One issue that I’ve discussed with friends and family members probably is a large factor. First, let’s get this out of the way: Cleveland’s economy, even a bit more so than the average, is not doing very well. That being said, it doesn’t help when 31 of 82 home games are labeled "Premium" games, which carry a price tag between 10% and 20% higher than "regular home" games. Premium games include the home opener, Boston and New York Yankees series, and all home Friday, Saturday, and Sunday games beginning June 13th through the rest of the season.
Adding to that, tickets purchased on the day of the game also carry a 10% to 16.67% premium than if you had bought them prior to that day. Let’s take a middle-of-the-road ticket, an upper box seat: You’re paying $25 on Friday, July 11th to see the Indians play the Tampa Bay Rays that night, but you can purchase a ticket for July 10th, Thursday’s game agains the same team for $20 on Wednesday, July 9th.
The point is this: For an economically struggling town, nobody’s going to buy tickets ahead of time for a weekend game in April, when it could be rainy and 42 degrees, and if the weather’s decent on game day but they discover that the ticket price is higher that day, they’ll either be disenchanted by the premium they pay or not go at all. There’s no incentive for the fan to purchase April tickets ahead of time, and there’s no incentive for them to wait until the day of the game.
Info regarding ticket prices for regular/premium games, and advanced/gameday pricing:
http://cleveland.indians.mlb.com/cle/ballpark/seating_pricing.jsp
Thanks.
You know Selig? Ombudsman.
by rolub on May 1, 2008 11:30 AM EDT 0 recs
they seem to do that premium crap just about everywhere now. don’t get me started on the ticket broker scam the cubs do. i just won’t buy tickets for cubs games anymore. if someone has a freebie for me, i’m happy to go watch some minor league baseball at the bar.
by Brick. on
May 1, 2008 11:37 AM EDT
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This is why I am so happy that the AAA team is moving to Columbus. With the goofy way ticket prices are going, there is no way I (and I include my wife and 2 kids) can afford to goto the Jake more than twice a year.
by Toxicadam on
May 1, 2008 12:00 PM EDT
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Sports played on a large field are better viewed on TV, I think. The zoom lens is totally underappreciated. I have friends that will drag me to games (for free), but I now refuse to go with them. I appreciate the ballpark amenities and I take in all the sights and chat with fans around me when I go, but I can’t stand sitting there knowing I am no longer able to have the CF view I can get at home on TV. There is so much more to see in the “game within the game” between pitcher and batter. You can tell the defensive alignment without seeing it by the way the pitcher is working the hitter. The close plays at the bases and the replays on TV are mostly lost when you sit further away from the action. Therefore, I cast my vote for STO living room action as the place from which to best watch.
by elsandito on May 1, 2008 2:53 PM EDT 0 recs
I actually like being at the park better because you have a view of the whole, not a focus on the detail. Baseball works better than many sports live because it’s slow enough for you to see what’s going on and to be able to follow the ball. Sitting in the upper deck behind home plate is in some ways the best way to appreciate baseball - the whole thing unfolds in front of you and you watch it all at once, although you’re right that you can’t see the strike zone, close plays, etc. But, I find TV baseball is too much like watching pieces of the game, rather than the game as a whole. Listening on the radio is often better, in my opinion - you can at least imagine the whole thing if the people calling the game are good (another issue altogther, obviously).
by peter m on
May 1, 2008 4:55 PM EDT
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The game is primary of course, but what I like best is the communal experience. Ya know that baseball fans, in general, are sommada best people on the planet. I like to go with family – my boy, by brothers or some udder guys that are like family to me – talk a little baseball, bust a few balls, have a beer or two, wolf down a dog – ya know go to a baseball game and commune with the baseball world.
It’s groovy dude, like a Dead concert.
"the most vehement Yankee-hating guy I know" - Jay
by mauichuck on
May 1, 2008 5:37 PM EDT
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I agree with elsandito. I enjoy seeing the whole game at my pace and with a better view of the pitcher-batter match up. DVR’s have really changed a lot as well.
I would never turn down playoff tickets because the atmosphere is amazing in those. But average games are more enjoyable at home, at least for me.
No Traffic
No Tickets
No Overpriced Food
No Annoying People
Just baseball.
by gahnki on
May 1, 2008 5:43 PM EDT
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Totally agree, I typically mute the TV and read what you guys are saying.
by elsandito on
May 1, 2008 5:59 PM EDT
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