Game Thread: April 5, 2008
by Ryan on Apr 5, 2008 3:16 PM EDT
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PrintCleveland Indians at Oakland Athletics, Apr 5, 2008 4:05 PM EDT
Gametime: 4:05 PM (No TV)
Victor should be back in the lineup today.
This headline on indians.com was amusing:
Getting Marte at-bats a challengeWith Blake at third and first jammed, opportunity is limited
Getting Marte sufficient at-bats to gauge his progress at the big league level will be a challenge for manager Eric Wedge this season. With Casey Blake entrenched at third, Marte has been and will be doing a lot of sitting."He'll pick up Casey from time to time at third base," Wedge said of Marte's outlook. "When we give Casey a day off, we'll play Andy over there."
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I love that Casey Blake is "entrenched" at third. Alex Rodriguez and David Wright should be "entrenched at third." Casey Blake should not.
What use would that be, though?
It wouldn't tell us anything about him, and even if he does well Blake will still play more.
Gutz for MVP
Yeah, but on the off-chance he powers a PH 3-run HR or something Wedge might, might be tempted to give him a start a couple days later. It wouldn't be the best thinking, but any line of thinking that gets Marte ABs is fine with me.
It's not his fault. I strongly dislike the hatred of Casey Blake here on LGT. I think it's misplaced and a little ignorant. I know we're all frustrated with Eric Wedge (maybe some of us with Shapiro for not forcing his hand). I know Blake is a league-average player at best. But he's still extremely valuable in the right role. If he's being used in the wrong role, it's not his fault.
So then it isn't ignorant to hate what he is doing. We know he doesn't belong there. A lot of us are fine with him being on the team, but we are not ignorant regarding it.
Tribe fan from far, far away
He's league average! We get instant league-average production at 3B, 1B, RF, and (maybe) LF. Defense might be questionable at some of those spots, but hey. I'm not gonna blame him for that.
But if he played better we wouldn't have a problem. I mean, it can't be that tough hitting 50 home runs.
Gutz for MVP
That's what I expect out of Carrol, too. He hasn't hit a single HR so far. What's he been doing with all that time on the bench, anyway?
And if Jamie Carroll suddenly starting playing every day and sucking, I would start to hate him too.
by supermarioelia on Apr 5, 2008 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions
He's doing exactly what I expect of him. And you're right I shouldn't be mad at him for being himself, I really do blame Wedge.
by supermarioelia on Apr 5, 2008 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions
That's fine, and I don't mind ragging on Blake in jest. I just kinda have a shorter fuse about this, it's all. Since it's apparently obvious at this point - I have an irrational like of our average 3B-man.
I just want to get this Marte stuff over with. Either he's good or he's not. This just keeps prolonging the process.
by supermarioelia on Apr 5, 2008 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions
That really doesn't end well...of course you could blame him for shaky defense. What I mean is that correctly used in the super-utility role, shaky defense at a few positions is fine given the benefits of flexibility, not needing to make roster moves, late game position shifts, etc.
Ok, I'm going to be serious now.
Do we really need a super sub for LF, RF, and 1B?
We have PLENTY of outfield depth, and V-Mart/Garko at first. So, really, his only use is at third.
Gutz for MVP
Possible exception in right, at least until Choo is healthy. I agree with you in principle, though.
by fleerdon on Apr 5, 2008 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm getting something, but not a picture. Right now it's like a baseball card of Grady.
Il faut d'abord durer.
Haha that just showed up on the screen for me. Up until then the visuals were working.
by supermarioelia on Apr 5, 2008 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Same here
One day I'll get over to watch the Tribe play
by new zealand tribe fan on Apr 5, 2008 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Damnit. I thought you and I were going to be able the select viewers today.
by supermarioelia on Apr 5, 2008 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Ok, I'm gonna watch the Tigers game and keep you updated while you update the Tribe game.
Sound good?
Gutz for MVP
C'mon I think we can all agree that Hammy and Underwood have the depth perception of a cyclops.
by supermarioelia on Apr 5, 2008 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions
It had the length. It was a fair/foul issue. You seriously don't get excited by a shot down the line, maybe start a cheer sometimes, only to have one go foul?
I'm very hesitant to give Hammy the benefit of the doubt with any home run call. Sorry but I just can't haha.
by supermarioelia on Apr 5, 2008 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Why are you in such a pissy mood today? We are all listening on the radio, we cannot see anything. When Hammy gets worked up only for us to realize it was foul, it gets us quite excited only to disappoint.
Tribe fan from far, far away
I'm not in a pissy mood - I'm saying you can't expect Hammy to psychically know what's going to happen. Disliking Hammy for that doesn't make much sense.
I can't believe pitchers still throw pitches out there to him.
by supermarioelia on Apr 5, 2008 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Is anyone able to watch via MLBTV? I'm getting the odd live shot and then nothing but crappy on screen graphics? Listening to the A's radio call.
Go Pronk
One day I'll get over to watch the Tribe play
by new zealand tribe fan on Apr 5, 2008 4:14 PM EDT reply actions
MLB.tv is interesting. I assume they can only show highlights, so you get to see the highlights right after.
I've got pictures now
One day I'll get over to watch the Tribe play
by new zealand tribe fan on Apr 5, 2008 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Willis looks good for the Tigers so far.
His off speed pitches have the Sox off balance.
Gutz for MVP
Anyone have a picture of the new uniforms Hamilton says the A's are wearing? I tried googling and came up empty.
Sounds like the Indians are making decent contact. They won't all be at defenders. The question is whether it's going to matter.
by fleerdon on Apr 5, 2008 4:37 PM EDT reply actions
Wow ... that was a bad decision by the A's CF... if that had gotten by him, Grady's at third.
Il faut d'abord durer.
Guys I might be making my first visit to Cleveland for some baseball games. I got a couple questions.
What are the best seats?
What else can I do in Cleveland during the day before the game?
There are some fantastic seats in the second or third deck behind home plate if you can get them. The mezzanine in right is always a good time, and the bleachers in left are a pretty essential experience, if only once. Be wary of the upper deck deep down the first and third baselines -- the sightlines are okay, but you practically scale the steps on all fours to get to them.
During the day, it depends on your preferences. If you're feeling cultural, it's hard to go wrong with any of the big museums. Cleveland does those right. If you're feeling ... not cultural ... I expect there are some people who can answer that question better than I.
by fleerdon on Apr 5, 2008 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm going to address Blake/Marte one last time, and then I'm just going to ignore it til it resolves itself.
I've said it before: For better or worse, the difference in production between Casey Blake and Andy Marte is highly unlikely to be the difference between winning or losing the division. Given that, I would rather watch Marte improve than Blake decline.
And whatever you may think about Andy's chances of significant improvement in 2008, Casey Blake's decline isn't really in question. He turns 35 in August, now four years removed from his career year. He's league average for his career, but I don't see much evidence that he's going to be league average this season -- at the plate, or, for that matter, in the field.
I don't see how the Indians can afford NOT to play Andy Marte. And I recoil at the notion -- admittedly not one necessarily espoused by anybody here -- that the Indians owe Casey Blake anything. They rescued him from AAA and kept him in the lineup when I imagine many other teams would not have. Sink or swim, he gets $6MM this season. I'd say the gratitude/loyalty ledger is pretty well zeroed out.
Probably the Indians know more about this than I do. Maybe they've got evidence that young players aren't built to succeed until the the immediate pressure to produce is off, a bit later in the season. Maybe something's up with Marte right now and he's just not ready at the moment. Maybe these are all wasted pixels.
Here's hoping.
by fleerdon on Apr 5, 2008 5:36 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
Haha, I had no idea you could rec comments. Just checked it out -- click Actions by the time/date stamp.
by fleerdon on Apr 5, 2008 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Not that I disagree with you, but there's no way Marte gets regular playing time if they aren't confident that he can field. Period. And with the way he looked in FL, I don't think that will happen. Marte looked like he was afraid of the ball and played everything off to his side. You can't do that in the major leagues. The only way Marte sees regular time in the first three months of the year is if Blake gets injured.
I just have this feeling that Blake is going to have a year where he hits .240 with 10-12 homers. As you said, he's 35 and not going to get better. He had a .697 OPS post-AS break last year, and he hasn't looked good for awhile. But he's not going get pulled until he fails for awhile.
However, I don't think Marte is a full-time major leauger either, not with his approach at the plate or in the field. But I would like to see if he could play for awhile and get some confidence.
If Pronk is allowed to forget how to hit breaking pitches, why isn't Marte allowed to forget how to field?
by supermarioelia on Apr 5, 2008 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions
We don't really know squat about Marte's approach at the plate because he hasn't had enough at bats to tell us whether he's capable of making any adjustments. The primary reason that he doesn't have a major league approach is that he hasn't had any chance to be a major leaguer.
Free Andy Marte!
As for the defense, I can't confirm or deny it, except to say that the reports were that the Winter Haven infield was in pretty crummy shape. If you're right, then you're right: Marte can't field like Braun unless he wants to hit like Braun. But I think you're right on with your numbers for Blake. .240/.320/.360 wouldn't surprise me in the least. And that's part of my point: If Marte can put up a 750 to 800 OPS in 2008, that might well be an improvement over what we'd get from a full year of Casey.
by fleerdon on Apr 5, 2008 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Marte could just as easily put up .180/.200/.250 and field like your Great Aunt Vernie. Better the devil you know until you actually need to make a move.
"the most vehement Yankee-hating guy I know" - Jay
That's a situation I trust the Indians to deal with properly. The young guy on the outs with Wedge who could benefit from some regular ABs ... that's TBD.
And I'll have you know my Great Aunt Vernie's got a Rolen-esque backhand.
by fleerdon on Apr 5, 2008 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Good lord, Wedge. That's enough. Pull him while we still have a chance. Let a reliever come in with the bases empty for once in your life.
by fleerdon on Apr 5, 2008 5:38 PM EDT reply actions
Why anyone throws Hafner a fastball middle-in is beyond me. He said it himself to Hammy before the game. He's out in front of EVERY off-speed pitch...if he doesn't take it for a strike.
Unfortunately, he did this for four months last year, so it's uncertain if you can call that a slump. It might just be what he is now.
Forget a fastball middle-in. There's no excuse to throw him a fastball period.
by supermarioelia on Apr 5, 2008 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions
True enough. Flash it to him chin-high, maybe. I'd never serve up heat in the zone.
by fleerdon on Apr 5, 2008 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions
To be fair, that was probably them booing the strike call.
Actually, I'm not interested in being fair.
Detroit is not a loyal sports town.
Really, Michigan isn't really a sports state. I don't think they're as into sports as Cleveland.
Gutz for MVP
Clearly you haven't been to a Red Wings game for the last year. Huge difficulties selling tickets this year despite another President's Trophy for best regular season mark in the league.
by supermarioelia on Apr 5, 2008 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions
This http://blog.mlive.com/snapshots/2008/01/hockeytown_wests_attendance_on.html says that they're playing to 92% capacity. I wish the Indians were playing to 92% capacity.
"the most vehement Yankee-hating guy I know" - Jay
You're comparing them to the Tribe? Really? And the fact they have any tickets at all available is a far cry from years past.
by supermarioelia on Apr 5, 2008 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Just got here after watching a very satisfying basketball game played at the Q (hint, hint) So what's the score? Is CC pitching worth a crap? Hafner have any hits?
"the most vehement Yankee-hating guy I know" - Jay
Famous people who have (or could) shut down the Indians:
Free Andy Marte!
Casey entrenched the hell out of that pop-up.
by fleerdon on Apr 5, 2008 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Dye smacks a homer
Sox 5
Tigers 3
I'm officially removing myself as president of the Gutz for MVP campaign. He will have to earn it back.
To start with, he has no gyroball (but then again, I have yet to be convinced that Matsuzake did, either).
Free Andy Marte!
JEEZ does that guy below the radio booth need to shut up.
by fleerdon on Apr 5, 2008 6:12 PM EDT reply actions
CC getting the inner cities back into baseball? I wouldn't mind if he himself got back into baseball.
Any player thrown out at 3rd will forever be known to me as a Barfield. I can't remember the opponent who also did this last yaer...
by supermarioelia on Apr 5, 2008 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions
So you don't mean when Shop threw out someone at third to end the game? I think it was to end the game.
Tribe fan from far, far away
I meant specifically a dumb baserunner going from 2nd to 3rd on a grounder to the left side...Barf did it notably once, and there were two other last year from the opposition too...
by supermarioelia on Apr 5, 2008 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Sheffield did it at the Jake
I'm officially removing myself as president of the Gutz for MVP campaign. He will have to earn it back.
Good work. And I think the other one might be from KC.
by supermarioelia on Apr 5, 2008 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Gamecast is malfunctioning, it lists Jason Michaels as the three hole hitter. Can someone fix this?
God truly does hate cleveland sports.
Okay, Masa. Nice, low stress, 20 pitch, 2 hit inning.
by fleerdon on Apr 5, 2008 6:23 PM EDT reply actions
Let me get this right - Wedge is pinch hitting Dellucci for Hafner. Is that right?
"the most vehement Yankee-hating guy I know" - Jay
End of Inning (0 Runs, 0 Hits, 0 Errors)
I've seen enough - bye.
"the most vehement Yankee-hating guy I know" - Jay
Tigers LOSE!!
I'm officially removing myself as president of the Gutz for MVP campaign. He will have to earn it back.
Only team in the majors not to have a victory.
I'm officially removing myself as president of the Gutz for MVP campaign. He will have to earn it back.
Raffy being pulled for Breslow mid-inning during the 5th game of the season...who saw this one coming?
I don't have mlb.tv yet - do we look as bad as the box score makes it seem like we look?
I'm not superstitious, I'm just a little stitious.
My main frustration here is trying to reconcile the team that stomped Mark Buerhle and Javier Vasquez with the team that can't hit Oakland's raft of mediocre pitching. And the growing fear that the pitching isn't going to be anywhere near as consistent as last year. Is there any good news right now?
jeez, i'm gone for two days and everything falls apart.
Sizemore-Shapiro 2008. The Official Red Bull of Let's Go Tribe Game Threads.
by Gradyforpresident on Apr 5, 2008 7:43 PM EDT reply actions
thanks. i could do shots of maker's mark for the rest of my life.
Sizemore-Shapiro 2008. The Official Red Bull of Let's Go Tribe Game Threads.
by Gradyforpresident on Apr 5, 2008 8:38 PM EDT up reply actions
and remember, I don't drink liquor.
Sizemore-Shapiro 2008. The Official Red Bull of Let's Go Tribe Game Threads.
by Gradyforpresident on Apr 5, 2008 8:38 PM EDT up reply actions
The 16,279 in attendance at McAfee Coliseum saw another lackluster (or more accurately, lacking) performance by the Indians in Oakland. Fortunately, the game was not televised, preventing more widespread damage to the reputations of the Indians and Sabathia.
The Indians have now lost 17 out of its last 23 games in Oakland, corresponding with Wedge's tenure. Sabathia's ERA in Oakland remains above 7 and he has won only 1 game (out of 8 starts) in his hometown, 5 years ago.
Today, the 100 win, reigning Cy Young winner was outpitched by Dana Eveland, with 64 innings and no wins as a starter to his credit.
Sabathia came out misfiring, giving up 3 runs on 3 hits and a HBP in the first inning, and taking 29 pitches to do it.
He settled down after that, giving up only 1 more run, with Mark Ellis breaking an 0-18 streak with a solo HR in the
5th. However, after walking 2 batters in the 6th, he had run his pitch count to 107, and had to be bailed out by Jensen Lewis after 5 1/3 innings, leaving his season ERA at 7.59. (Maybe the Indians will have a chance to resign him. I don't think an AL West team would go after him.)
Raffy R may have emptied the Circle of Trust in the 8th inning , giving up 2 runs on 4 hits and an SB to 5 batters.
Breslow faced 3 batters to end the A's afternoon with 6 runs.
The Indians have been no match for 2 nights in San Francisco, striking out 10 times Friday night, followed by another 10 on Saturday. Hafner led the way with 4 Ks over the 2 games, with numerous others contributing 3.
Cliff Lee, in his role as the #5 starter, has the job of stopping the 3-game losing streak, that the #1 ace was no match for when it was a game shorter. Lee is hoping that the 3rd night in San Francisco is the charm.
I wish it wasn't televised. Unfortunately it actually was shown on mlbtv.
by supermarioelia on Apr 5, 2008 10:05 PM EDT up reply actions
after some fiddling, I was able to bring up the archive of today's game on mlb.tv, although I can't bear to watch much of it.
the camera work on the inhouse feed wasn't as bad as I feared, despite all the cameras under canvas that I saw on the 1st base side.
no graphics and they patched in the Oakland radio broadcast, which allows you to hear old friend Ray Fosse
drunk post alert*********
Michaels as a 3 hitter? That has me very worried about our offense, especially when added to 3 straight games of belove average offensive production. Sizemore, Garko, Peralta. That is all we have as far as for sure above average production when Martinez is hurt. I'd like to think Gutz is close to being a sure thing as far as positive output day in and day out, but he isn't quite there yet. Cabrera is a HUGE question mark, and I don't think he can be counted on for much more than .320OBP/.690 OPS. Blake, as mentioned above, is on the decline. Dellucci/Michaels is a below average platoon, and that is about a big a waste of roster spots as you can think, but even BenFran wouldn't suddenly make us a great offense. The 1-9 thing is a nice philosophy, but the bottom line is we are not a playoff team without Martinez and Hafner producing at their career levels.
Sure, we survived a sub-Pronk performance last year, but that was because Carmona, Betancourt, and a few other bullpen guys pitched out of their mind. I think CC will come close to his 06 and 07 numbers, I'm not that worried about him, but its the offense that really scares me. Carmona will regress a little and the pen will be good, but not '07 amazingawesomegreatbonnerriffic.
Go Tribe.
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