Remember that Yankees game last year?

I think we all need to be reminded it's not the end of the world.

2 months ago Turkmenbashi Comment 10 comments 0 recs |

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Good Lord, what I painful memory. John Sterling's call is still ringing in my ears.

I didn't listen to last night's game or post in the game thread, because I was too invested in (and then giddy over) the Kansas win in the NCAA Men's BB Tournament - I finally managed to win my office pool. So, from that distance, last night doesn't seem THAT bad, just JoBo being JoBo.

We all know what we have in JoBo as our closer. He will raise our "Casey Blake"-pressure whenever he takes the mound, but he will get saves - just not pretty ones.

The one issue for concern is that there was a difference last year between "non-save situation Jobo" and "save situation JoBo." The a-rod GS was the former. Hunter's last night was the later.

"It's hard to win when you don't score." Cliff Lee, 9/28/05.

by Harry Doyle on Apr 8, 2008 10:43 AM EDT 0 recs

The one issue for concern is that there was a difference last year between "non-save situation Jobo" and "save situation JoBo."
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Seriously, what is the difference? I don't understand this distinction. The job is the same either way - get three outs and keep the lead. The non-save situation should be easier and should, if anything, yield a higher success rate.

I see no difference between last night and Joe's spectacular blow-ups last year. And I can accept them, even appreciate them as works of art, as long as his overall performance is effective.

by SuddenSam on Apr 8, 2008 12:12 PM EDT up 0 recs

I wasn't arguing that there sshould be a difference. All I was saying is that last year, their was a difference.

The real concern should be if "non-save JoBo" will be making appearances in save situations this year.

"It's hard to win when you don't score." Cliff Lee, 9/28/05.

by Harry Doyle on Apr 8, 2008 12:14 PM EDT up 0 recs

I guess I just see it as a distinction without a difference. The save is a flawed, possibly even meaningless stat, so why should it matter if the save is in play?

by SuddenSam on Apr 8, 2008 12:36 PM EDT up 0 recs

You know how in basketball, if you get fouled taking a shot, it only counts as a field goal attempt if you make the field goal anyway?

I think we should flip it in baseball, and award a blown save even if you're up by too much to make it an official save situation.

by dgcambridge on Apr 8, 2008 12:46 PM EDT up 0 recs

I think what SuddenSam is getting at is that the "save situation" is a totally arbitrary dividing line to draw, between three and four runs, and that's just one of many reasons why this observation was always cute but never astute.

I think you can look at blowouts and say, that clearly was a different scenario that would give many players a different mentality. You want to separate tie games and one-run games from others, I can see that, too, because the margin for error is so slim. But separating three-run leads from four-runs leads? Meaningless as far as I can tell.

The Save is not part of the game, it's only part of the official scorebook.

by Jay on Apr 8, 2008 2:06 PM EDT up 0 recs

I agree. A blown save in the bottom of the 9th inning = a loss anyway you slice it. I was not advocating that we should look at JoBo's performance differently in save v. non-save situations - I was just pointing out that others had in the past, and now this poor performance had come out in a save situation.

When a closer is put in a situation where he can lose (whether he created it or not), it's fair to expect that he will work to shut the other team down.

The problem with the JoBo is that he is not a shut them down closer, and he never will be one. The best we get from him is his mentality (that Jersey toughness) that supposedly allows him not to get stressed even though he's in a stressful situation.

So he's not burdened by stress. That keeps him from pitching worse, but it doesn't make him pitch better. Last night, his best wasn't good enough.

"It's hard to win when you don't score." Cliff Lee, 9/28/05.

by Harry Doyle on Apr 8, 2008 2:33 PM EDT up 0 recs

The Save is not part of the game, it's only part of the official scorebook.

It is part of the game, however, in the way Wedge uses Borowski. From a strategic baseball point of view, I don't understand why Joe pitches with a three run lead, but Betancourt stays in if it's four.

But numerous comments from players last year, especially in the playoffs, suggested that one of the things they like about Wedge is his consistency, that they "know where they stand" and what their roles are. This included the decision to pitch Byrd on the 4th day, to use Shoppach, etc.

Not being a player on this team, I can't say how much that means, other than good morale seems to be a strength of this team. Anyway, as long as Wedge takes this approach, the save situation will be an important in-game factor.

by SuddenSam on Apr 8, 2008 4:12 PM EDT up 0 recs

I understand it, but I think players can be comfortable with less rigid roles as long as they are still well defined, and that's a nuance missed by many managers (baseball and otherwise).

Getting back to the main point, it's clear that Saves have entered the dugout (manager's decisions), but that still doesn't mean they affect the game on the field directly once the manager has made his move.

by Jay on Apr 8, 2008 7:56 PM EDT up 0 recs

That's been going through my mind all morning. I also remember that April 2007 had several other outrageous defeats, so we should expect some more of these losses in the near future.

I also recall that the Tribe had a horrendous travel schedule with "home" games in Milwaukee. (I'm not happy that the Tribe had to travel to the West Coast without an off day during the first week of the season).

Spidey

by Spidey on Apr 8, 2008 11:05 AM EDT 0 recs