Game Thread: May 13, 2008
by Ryan on May 13, 2008 7:03 PM EDT
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PrintOakland Athletics at Cleveland Indians, May 13, 2008 7:05 PM EDT
Oakland at Cleveland, 7:05 (STO)
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Had a feeling it was long, but after posting in the Asdrubal thread, I think the new sig has to go. Concur?
Summary: HIRE KLIFF, HIRE LAFFEY, HIRE CC, HIRE WESTBROOK, HIRE FAUSTO. FIRE BYRD. HIRE BRESLOW, HIRE JENSEN, HIRE PEREZ. FIRE BETANCOURT IN NON-SAVE SITUATIONS. FIRE MASA IN 1-RUN GAMES. HIRE V-MART, HIRE SHOPPACH. HIRE GARKO. HIRE UNASSISTED TRIPLE PLAYS, BUG-EYED INFIELDERS AND FAT SHORTSTOP BATS (NOT GLOVES). HIRE LOOCH, HIRE BENFRAN, HIRE GUTZ. FIRE TYNER. fire wedge.
FIRE PROON. HIRE PRONK.
FIRE BLAKE. FREE MARTE.
(yes, 2 men were left out ... for obvious and opposite reasons)
FREE MARTE
Sizemore-Shapiro 2008. The Official Red Bull of Let's Go Tribe Game Threads.
by Gradyforpresident on May 13, 2008 7:12 PM EDT reply actions
This is the subhead for the current lead story on mlb.com:
After dropping three games to the Twins, the Sox turn to reigning AL Cy Young winner Josh Beckett.
This franchise has a history with the player-manager. I nominate Victor Martinez for player-hitting coach.
run!
Sizemore-Shapiro 2008. The Official Red Bull of Let's Go Tribe Game Threads.
by Gradyforpresident on May 13, 2008 7:24 PM EDT reply actions
Normally I think Underwood is reading too much into things, but hopefully this team was at least a little embarrassed when Wedge called them out last night.
Steel Nick
What did he say? I must have missed that..
You have no idea the physical toll that three vasectomies have on a person
by jakesinger777 on May 13, 2008 7:25 PM EDT up reply actions
“Now maybe I’m reading too much into this.” and then pointed out that Hafner slammed his fist into his open palm after rounding first. As if to suggest he’s relieved over getting something going early.
Writing it does make it seem silly. I just like that we’re on the board early.
Steel Nick
“Our approach was as poor if not the poorest I’ve seen here all year,” Wedge said. “No excuses for it. No excuses. We were giving away at-bats all night long.”
LINK
by Fiddlesticks on May 13, 2008 7:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Whoops. Didn’t even think that maybe someone didn’t see it. It was my favorite quote from yesterday’s sports world other than “Lebron James, with no regard for human life…”
Steel Nick
i thought that line was fucking hilarious
Sizemore-Shapiro 2008. The Official Red Bull of Let's Go Tribe Game Threads.
by Gradyforpresident on May 13, 2008 7:43 PM EDT up reply actions
I like this one:
“It was a triple play,” Wedge said matter-of-factly, as if such a thing happens every night. “I’m not going to talk about it. We didn’t win the game.”
by Fiddlesticks on May 13, 2008 7:44 PM EDT up reply actions
just catching up.
stomp, stomp, hiss.
nice ab by grady.
come on hafner, do something here.
FINALLY.
fine, let Blake play 1B and FIRE GARKO
victor is hurt????
Sizemore-Shapiro 2008. The Official Red Bull of Let's Go Tribe Game Threads.
by Gradyforpresident on May 13, 2008 7:33 PM EDT reply actions
frank thomas looked friggin ridiculous “sliding” into home. like when a cartoon character starts running but the legs just churn and he goes nowhere
anybody else hear about the indians trying to get Rockies 3rd baseman garrett atkins for Laffey and Barfield? heard on STO who heard it from Buster Olney
There's always next year...and the next year...and the next year...
by HireRockyColavito on May 13, 2008 7:58 PM EDT reply actions
yep from Drennan. apparently olney wrote about it somewhere, dont know where
There's always next year...and the next year...and the next year...
by HireRockyColavito on May 13, 2008 7:59 PM EDT up reply actions
ESPN’s Buster Olney makes a point to say that this trade idea is pure speculation rather than anything he’s heard.
Steel Nick
i know its a rumor, but an interesting rumor
There's always next year...and the next year...and the next year...
by HireRockyColavito on May 13, 2008 8:05 PM EDT up reply actions
its a speculative rumor
There's always next year...and the next year...and the next year...
by HireRockyColavito on May 13, 2008 8:08 PM EDT up reply actions
No. It isn’t. Buster Olney flat out admits just pulling this one out of thin air. It’s no more a rumor than if you or I said “The Indians should trade Adam Miller to Toronto for Alex Rios.” That doesn’t become a rumor because someone opined on it.
Steel Nick
at least it opened up a rousing discussion
There's always next year...and the next year...and the next year...
by HireRockyColavito on May 13, 2008 8:15 PM EDT up reply actions
not so… according to STO he has 37 homers at home and 37 homers away. he does have some more RBIs at coors though
There's always next year...and the next year...and the next year...
by HireRockyColavito on May 13, 2008 8:02 PM EDT up reply actions
again, just a rumor, but something to think about
There's always next year...and the next year...and the next year...
by HireRockyColavito on May 13, 2008 8:06 PM EDT up reply actions
let me summarize: for the right price, hell yea. but that price, in my opinion, doesn’t include aaron laffey. atkins can’t be had for free. but with byrd and sabathia leaving after this year, i think laffey will be needed in 2009.
then you have the issue of atkins being arb eligible and a free agent after 2010, so he’ll be making be making in the neighborhood of $15M the next two years. and then there’d be the disposal of andy marte.
and atkins isn’t a good third baseman. basically, he’s the kind of guy you love to develop yourself, but who it pain you to acquire by other means.
it goes a little deeper than that. consider 2005-2007: (AVG/OBP/SLG/OPS)
Home: .345/.407/.541/.948
Away: .275/.346/.446/.792
thats still better than the larger part of our lineup now
There's always next year...and the next year...and the next year...
by HireRockyColavito on May 13, 2008 8:08 PM EDT up reply actions
... in the NL …
Sizemore-Shapiro 2008. The Official Red Bull of Let's Go Tribe Game Threads.
by Gradyforpresident on May 13, 2008 8:08 PM EDT up reply actions
fuck that shit. i wouldn’t trade laffey straight up for atkins.
Sizemore-Shapiro 2008. The Official Red Bull of Let's Go Tribe Game Threads.
by Gradyforpresident on May 13, 2008 8:01 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I guess the point would be to insure less playing time for Marte.
by SuddenSam on May 13, 2008 8:02 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Seriously. This game (and thread) is barely disturbing my crossword puzzling.
by Fiddlesticks on May 13, 2008 8:03 PM EDT up reply actions
You guys do know that CC has been pretty darn good his last four starts, right?
by Fiddlesticks on May 13, 2008 8:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Let’s make it 3 straight nine-inning SHO efforts. Pretend we’re the October version of the 2005 White Sox.
Steel Nick
We really have become the Twins. Any minute now Ron Gardenhire is going to remove his Eric Wedge mask and reveal his true identity, followed quickly by Johan Santana removing his Cliff Lee mask.
by Joe Charboneau on May 13, 2008 8:25 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
And Jason Tyner will remove his Jason Tyner mask
by SuddenSam on May 13, 2008 8:27 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Actually Tyner should feel comfortable in this 1920’s offense.
We should start taking trains to west coast trips.
Steel Nick
We’re not in the PCL, we just play like it.
by Fiddlesticks on May 13, 2008 8:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Hey, a hit!
"Albert Belle blooped the ball over the fence." -- Atlanta Braves manager Bobby Cox after Game 5 of the 1995 World Series
No. But, that’s what he’s hitting now. I wouldn’t bat him second until he shows he can make contact with some regularity.
Easy Grady! That was close
"Albert Belle blooped the ball over the fence." -- Atlanta Braves manager Bobby Cox after Game 5 of the 1995 World Series
It’s solid. Nothing helps a struggling offense than having less outs to work with.
Steel Nick
by nickjs21 on May 13, 2008 8:30 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Eh that last pitch was outside
"Albert Belle blooped the ball over the fence." -- Atlanta Braves manager Bobby Cox after Game 5 of the 1995 World Series
Overlooked by that awful outcome was the comment preceding it by Underwood.
“I don’t have the data to back this up”-which you know means it’s going to be fun-“but it seems to me more home runs are hit on full counts than any other count.”
I have to find this out.
Steel Nick
Wait, he said that? Seriously? During which at bat? I have to go back and listen.
I mean, you can’t look it up yourself or just ask someone to?
I’ll bet having men on base when these happen results in an increased amount of total runs, too.
Dunno if I’d stake my reputation on that, though.
--
Right now, I'll take .500 and run. I'm a cheap happy.
For the record:
87 home runs this year on full counts.
100 on 2-2 counts.
175 on first pitch.
That’s just this year however, per STO.
Steel Nick
Did STO post that on screen following Underwood’s BS? Did he admit he was an idiot? I’m salivating here.
“Redbird,” who I believe is their producer, looked it up for him and had it ready for Underwood to read on air within about 6 minutes of Underwood saying it.
Steel Nick
I have to go back and see this. Did he also say, “Wow, turns out I’m an idiot who has little intuition for this game”?
by tabler84 on May 13, 2008 8:46 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
UPDATE: Yep, Underwood said exactly that.
I mean, Christ, he doesn’t even seem remotely interested in finding out. He just felt comfortable enough making a stupid claim. Even Manning seemed dumbfounded, which is really saying something.
There’s a fair amount of ego involved to just throw a fact out that you admit may or may not be true.
Steel Nick
Does Byrd pitch the 8th? He’s in the mid-80s (number of pitches, that is). Wedge usually pulls him pretty early, probably with reason.
Don’t you know that this is a Cleveland sports franchise? Anything is possible.
Disappointed by the Indians since 1995.
by FaustosSinkingFastball on May 13, 2008 8:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Ah yes, a title.
Disappointed by the Indians since 1995.
by FaustosSinkingFastball on May 13, 2008 8:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m usually the loudest PULL BYRD shouter, but I’d keep him in there at least to start the 8th.
Give Marte a Chance.
You mean you don’t have confidence in our bullpen? Blasphemy.
Disappointed by the Indians since 1995.
by FaustosSinkingFastball on May 13, 2008 8:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Going back to Underwood’s comment, I have to point out something that seems obvious to me. Maybe the analysts here can take a whack at it.
Very few at-bats actually make it to a full count. Every single batter sees a first pitch. Logically, the most home runs HAVE to come on the first pitch, right? Just because there are so many more opportunities?
I would agree and I’m thinking hitters usually have more defensive approaches with two strikes
It's the Arizona talking, really.
Underwood: “Not surprising that Grady’s one for three, considering his career average against Oakland coming in was .328.”
I mean, I could compile a list long enough to get a Single A announcer canned.
My hatred for Alan Embree is exceeded only by my hatred for our hitting this season.
Disappointed by the Indians since 1995.
by FaustosSinkingFastball on May 13, 2008 9:00 PM EDT reply actions
You sounded like Edward G. Robinson right there.
--
Right now, I'll take .500 and run. I'm a cheap happy.
Defense, Defense, Defense
Had to chime in. I’m lovin’ the D all home stand, their making me eat my post from last week.
I know this is the right call from a matchup standpoint. But they’ll probably pinch-hit a lefty anyway. In a 1-0 I just think maybe we should have the thought of extra innings in the back of our mind.
But still the right call.
Steel Nick
By the way, the dugout suite being in view of the camera shot is the worst oversight by ballpark designers IMO. Nothing makes my blood irrationally boil more than some asshole waving on his cellphone behind home plate.
What is he saying to the person on the other line? “I’m still there? Really? You still see me waving! I’m fucking waving! This is awesome!” And the person on the other line is actually responding positively to this?
Steel Nick
by nickjs21 on May 13, 2008 9:11 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
At the ballpark, and everywhere else on earth.
by Fiddlesticks on May 13, 2008 9:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Dude! I TOTALLY SEE YOU! It’s like you’re here, except you’re on my TV & you look like an asshole!
Despite all of my best intentions, I have not, in fact, grown up to be a debaser.
by zempf on May 13, 2008 9:17 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
You know, a brilliant pitcher’s duel between CC Sabathia and Roy Halladay, or even between Cliff Lee and Shawn Marcum, can be thrilling stuff. But a brilliant pitcher’s duel between Paul Byrd and Justin Duchscherer just feels like a long, slow parade of crummy hitters.
by Fiddlesticks on May 13, 2008 9:12 PM EDT reply actions 4 recs
He has occasionally been less afraid of offending others.
Steel Nick
by nickjs21 on May 13, 2008 9:16 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I wonder what the Progressive Field scoreboard was showing that inspired them to play the Godfather theme.
Steel Nick
The Indians are to good hitting what Kathy Griffin is to comedy.
Disappointed by the Indians since 1995.
by FaustosSinkingFastball on May 13, 2008 9:18 PM EDT reply actions
We should just become a fan community enamored with outs. These games would be just awesome.
Steel Nick
I suppose…if you live in a dungeon, you might as well become a masochist.
Disappointed by the Indians since 1995.
by FaustosSinkingFastball on May 13, 2008 9:20 PM EDT up reply actions
I wish I could watch Hafner hit a sharp single which advances Martinez to third without thinking, “yeah, so now what?” But I can’t.
Bunting time here.
Disappointed by the Indians since 1995.
by FaustosSinkingFastball on May 13, 2008 9:26 PM EDT reply actions
Now watch: the Garko gets a hit too and further prolongs our misery. Fire him.
--
Right now, I'll take .500 and run. I'm a cheap happy.
Im not sure, but I think so. Im not going to check or anything.
Disappointed by the Indians since 1995.
by FaustosSinkingFastball on May 13, 2008 9:30 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m watching on Game Cast tonight. Was strike 3 really that far off the plate?
by Denver Tribe Fan on May 13, 2008 9:36 PM EDT reply actions
For what it’s worth, Ozzie Guillen appears to have pioneered “OutBall” way before we did tonight.
Steel Nick
Kobayashi gets the save, too, cause it was a save situation when he came in, right?
Despite all of my best intentions, I have not, in fact, grown up to be a debaser.
No, I’m sticking to it. Raffy R has been bad, but he’s been bitten a bit by some fluky stuff. I have faith in him, and I think Wedge et al have no choice but to have faith in him.
Okay, you go ahead and stick to it.
Before saying anything further, let me stipulate up-front that (a) I never expected Betancourt to be able to repeat his 2007 groove, because that would be a ridiculous expectation even if he continued to be a really good reliever, and (b) I won’t be particularly quick to jump to any conclusions about “closer mentality,” let alone totally dumb stuff like comparing tie games to save situations, etc. So, with that said.
Rather like Cliff Lee in the opposite direction, there’s been some luck involved, but we have some pretty good methods for estimating the impact of luck. He’s got a FIP of 4.85, and an xFIP of 3.50 — but before you get excited about the 3.50 xFIP, remember that xFIP is considered pretty “experimental” at this point. Looking at HitTracker, we can see that two of his four home runs were in the “plenty” category — not really subject to “bad luck” — while only two were “just enough.”
Besides, 3.50 isn’t even as good as he was prior to 2007 — 3.26 ERA over 229 IP.
Anyway, looking at the two pitchers, here’s ERA, RA, FIP, xFIP:
Kobayashi — 2.08, 2.60, 3.81, 3.53
Betancourt — 6.89, 6.89, 4.85, 3.50
It is interesting that using every “filter,” they end up looking the same, but do you really think that’s a valid assumption?
Main thing I see here is, based just on these numbers, there certainly wouldn’t be anything crazy about giving Masa the job. Maybe it wouldn’t help Betancourt get himself straightened out, but it’s hard to see how it would hurt.
I was expecting a regression; hell, I kept waiting for the halo to fade in the second half of last year. It’s just not possible to expect a repeat of a career season.
I just feel it’s important to take a longer view with Raffy R in this role. It would be extremely helpful to have a closer who can handle any leverage, any time, but based on the way Wedge has talked lately, it’s going to be Borowski if Raffy R struggles (or perhaps even if he doesn’t).
Me neither. I’d love to see Masa get a chance and put Raffy B back in the set up role where he’s been so effective. If we’re not going to score runs this season it seems like we need a solid answer at the back end of the bullpen and we’d better figure it out soon.
by Denver Tribe Fan on May 13, 2008 9:49 PM EDT up reply actions
We’re going to remember this past week in September, when we’re up 3 games in the division, and no one can understand how we won games without scoring runs.
And we’ll be all, “Our pitchers were holding opponents to null sets, THAT’S how, take a suck of THAT!”
Side bet: Byrd finishes with a lower ERA than CC – bet?
"the most vehement Yankee-hating guy I know" - Jay
Oh god yes, and we don’t even have to start fresh. Start with current numbers. Done.
Here’s the bet: If I win, you buy me a bottle of Rosso di Montalcino. If you win, a case of beer on me. And we drink it together in Cleveland one of these days.
ok
Sizemore-Shapiro 2008. The Official Red Bull of Let's Go Tribe Game Threads.
by Gradyforpresident on May 13, 2008 9:45 PM EDT up reply actions
did you say rouse?
Sizemore-Shapiro 2008. The Official Red Bull of Let's Go Tribe Game Threads.
by Gradyforpresident on May 13, 2008 10:01 PM EDT up reply actions
USEFULLNESS ON BASEBALL TONIGHT ALERT:
They just did a very well-done and informative five minute breakdown of plate coverage on slides into home plate, highlighting Molina’s coverage when Peralta slid in New York (bad) and Martinez’s play tonight (good).
See, this is what BBTN should be doing. I can get highlights and bad opinions anywhere on the Internet. This is something that should be separating them.
Steel Nick
Been out at lunch, Go Tribe, nice thread read.
One day I'll get over to watch the Tribe play
by new zealand tribe fan on May 13, 2008 11:40 PM EDT reply actions
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