Cliff Lee As Closer?

by oxforddave on May 19, 2008 11:57 AM EDT

Right now it appears that the tribe's six best pitchers are starters ( in no particular order: Laffey, Sabathia, Lee, Westbrook, Byrd, Carmona). Suppose the Indians make the post season, with these 6 still thriving. The typical thing to do in the post-season is go with your 4 best and make the 5th a long man, or leave him off the roster. But, as of now, the 5th and 6th best starters are better than *any* of the tribe's relievers, and probably by quite a big margin. So making the worst of these two into long relievers, seems a horrible waste.

Seemingly a better option would be to make two of them into high leverage guys in the post season. But which two? History tells us that Carmona is a bad idea. Westbrook and Laffey don't strike out enough, and Byrd gives up way to many homers. That leaves Sabathia and Lee. To me, CC is suspect under pressure, tending to overthrow the ball. Could, would, or should the tribe make Lee the closer in the playoffs?

Thinking about this, one thing is certain. Adam Miller will be on this team as a reliever later this year.

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I would rather have a groundballer like Laffey, TBH.

by Toxicadam on May 19, 2008 12:04 PM EDT 0 recs

or Fausto. I bet if he were to go back there he’d be lights out. But it would be a terrible waste to have a great pitcher who throws 200+ innings and use him for 80 innings.

by odradek on May 19, 2008 12:08 PM EDT up 0 recs

I don’t think he’s suggesting using one of the starter as the closer now. Just during the playoffs, where there’s unlikely to be 80 innings of closing available.

by Fiddlesticks on May 19, 2008 12:13 PM EDT up 0 recs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3-eavMSBnk

You’re getting a little ahead of yourself.

I tried to make Paul Reuschel my Avatar, but he didn't fit into the box.

by emd2k3 on May 19, 2008 12:13 PM EDT 0 recs

Yeah, I know. The original title was going to be “Way to premature playoff question”. I find hypotheticals interesting.

by oxforddave on May 19, 2008 12:32 PM EDT up 0 recs

I think you mean this one:

You have no idea the physical toll that three vasectomies have on a person

by jakesinger777 on May 19, 2008 1:06 PM EDT up 0 recs

The issues with this team are not on the mound.

by Roger Dorn on May 19, 2008 12:27 PM EDT 0 recs

But they are in the bullpen. For WPA
Starters +5.8
Relievers -2.5
Batters -3.3

Again, this is for the playoffs. Who here wants to see Laffey shunted to a non-existent role in the playoffs?

by oxforddave on May 19, 2008 12:31 PM EDT up 0 recs

Man, I would love it if our batters could just get to 0 WPA. Seeing that number in print is just heartbreaking.

Anyway, I think you are underestimating the value of experience. Putting a young guy in a pressure situation where he has little experience seems like a very bad idea to me.

by gahnki on May 19, 2008 4:47 PM EDT up 0 recs

Ahh…I got Laffey and Lee confused. I thought you were suggesting we put Laffey as close in this post hence the young comment.

I still don’t think Lee should be the closer. While it’s enticing to think about 1,2,3 ninth innings I believe that he would be much more valuable as a starter. Although, if he regresses then the possibility of being a closer in the playoffs is interesting.

by gahnki on May 19, 2008 6:51 PM EDT up 0 recs

So we’d be better off not sending anyone to the plate, right?

by supermarioelia on May 20, 2008 12:36 AM EDT up 0 recs

Yes.

by gahnki on May 22, 2008 5:26 PM EDT up 0 recs

one thing is certain:
Westbrook and Laffey would be better suited for starts than 1 inning of work. Make CC the long man…. can’t be pressured there.

Give Marte a Chance.

by westbrook on May 19, 2008 12:51 PM EDT 0 recs

Westbrook actually has more experience than the other starters (except maybe Carmona) as a reliever, not that I’d advocate changing his role.

I’m not sure about Miller as an “impact” reliever—his K/BB ratio isn’t great so far. Plus, they have Bauer who has been closing effectively (despite control issues). I think you’ll see Bauer first (maybe even soon) if the bullpen continues to flounder around.

The real problem is the hitting—even over the weaker pitching weekend, you’d figure they would win at least one game if they scored at major league average levels.

by peter m on May 19, 2008 1:10 PM EDT 0 recs

It’s bad karma to talk about making changes for the playoffs in May, even hypothetically. As fans of Cleveland sports teams, we should all know better than to invite bad karma – more than enough of it will show up anyway, without our invitation.

Free Andy Marte!

Pronk Needs You

by woodsmeister on May 19, 2008 2:00 PM EDT 0 recs

Hah! Never mind those LOLCats you were making mocking the Tigers.

I’m with you. It’s best not to use a Cleveland sports team to test the (non-)existence of karma.

by CBusSteve on May 19, 2008 2:32 PM EDT up 0 recs

Yeah – in retrospect that was fun, but perhaps a bad idea.

Free Andy Marte!

Pronk Needs You

by woodsmeister on May 19, 2008 2:37 PM EDT up 0 recs

Bad karma is to Cleveland Indians as Stadium mustard is to hot dog.

by odradek on May 19, 2008 6:53 PM EDT up 0 recs

Overrated?

by gahnki on May 19, 2008 6:56 PM EDT up 0 recs

Perhaps. But ubiquitous.

by odradek on May 19, 2008 7:29 PM EDT up 0 recs

WHAT?!

Jay, if this doesn’t warrant a ban, I’m not sure what does.

Burn on, big river, burn on...

by Turkmenbashi on May 20, 2008 9:17 AM EDT up 0 recs

Stadium mustard is mana from the heavens

by APV on May 20, 2008 9:51 AM EDT up 0 recs

yeah, i have a real problem with this. i think eating less stadium mustard is making the world dumber.

by Brick. on May 20, 2008 10:48 AM EDT up 0 recs

I think he’s saying they go hand in hand.

Right?

I tried to make Paul Reuschel my Avatar, but he didn't fit into the box.

by emd2k3 on May 20, 2008 11:24 AM EDT up 0 recs

Seriously. I just ordered my parents to send me some for my Memorial Day cookout.

Burn on, big river, burn on...

by Turkmenbashi on May 20, 2008 11:50 AM EDT up 0 recs

When I visited my friends from school who live in DC, I brought 4 bottles of Stadium mustard as an example of my land’s rare and delicate gifts.

my helmet has, like, no pine tar on it.

by joeee on May 20, 2008 12:08 PM EDT up 1 recs

Okay, did you get Stadium Mustard brand or Bertman’s Ball Park?

I prefer Bertmans, so I might be run out of this blog on a rail.

http://sullicom.blogspot.com/2007/11/last-word-on-cleveland-mustard-maybe.html

I tried to make Paul Reuschel my Avatar, but he didn't fit into the box.

by emd2k3 on May 20, 2008 2:01 PM EDT up 0 recs

As far as I’m concerned, there is only Bertman’s.

Burn on, big river, burn on...

by Turkmenbashi on May 20, 2008 2:02 PM EDT up 0 recs

Ah, you caught me. It was, indeed, Ball Park. I just didn’t want to start a “soda versus pop” debate – (its all the same). Point is, brown mustard from Cleveland.

my helmet has, like, no pine tar on it.

by joeee on May 20, 2008 4:56 PM EDT up 0 recs

Ballpark = Bertman’s?!

Soda = pop?!

What is this world coming to?

Burn on, big river, burn on...

by Turkmenbashi on May 20, 2008 5:35 PM EDT up 0 recs

Stadium mustard is decent but i think it’s overrated.

by gahnki on May 20, 2008 4:23 PM EDT up 0 recs

troll.

by Brick. on May 20, 2008 4:31 PM EDT up 0 recs

Yea, I work for Heinz ketchup and actually run a blog centered on it.

You can check it out here if you want.

by gahnki on May 20, 2008 4:38 PM EDT up 0 recs

Compared to what? Canary-yellow mustard you get at Wrigley Field or Fenway?

by odradek on May 20, 2008 5:09 PM EDT up 0 recs

I suppose you think baseball is overrated too. And freedom.

It’s times like these I wish the House Unamerican Activities Committee still existed.

Burn on, big river, burn on...

by Turkmenbashi on May 20, 2008 5:36 PM EDT up 3 recs

And freedom.

awesome

by Brick. on May 20, 2008 5:48 PM EDT up 0 recs

Well, actually ballpark mustard is only revered in Cleveland so it would be more appropriate as a House of Uncleveland Activities Committee.

It’s seen as a nice condiment in other places around the country but the worship it receives in Cleveland is a tad ridiculous. And I believe that the original recipe was created in Europe. Not sure on that but I heard it somewhere.

by gahnki on May 20, 2008 7:22 PM EDT up 0 recs

With that kind of solid reporting and access to such solid sources, you should start your own blog. How about MLB Mustard Rumors?

"A good body with a dull brain is as cheap as life itself."

by Fiddlesticks on May 20, 2008 7:32 PM EDT up 0 recs

Damn. I really wanted that to link somewhere, like here:

MLB Mustard Rumors

by steincat on May 20, 2008 7:55 PM EDT up 0 recs

I like the way you think. Maybe I should link to some unknown mustard sites that only link back to myself.

And in every tag there will be Aaron Laffey’s name.

And soon I’ll be a millionaire.

by gahnki on May 20, 2008 8:28 PM EDT up 0 recs

And I believe that the original recipe was created in Europe. Not sure on that but I heard it somewhere.

Is this not true of all mustard condiments?

by odradek on May 21, 2008 12:38 PM EDT up 0 recs

I think so. But that’s why I laugh whenever someone says that it is all Cleveland.

by gahnki on May 21, 2008 4:22 PM EDT up 0 recs

Hey, what’s wrong with clinging to one of the few great things Cleveland still has going for it?

Burn on, big river, burn on...

by Turkmenbashi on May 22, 2008 11:08 AM EDT up 0 recs

I just don’t want to become arrogant about mustard.

by gahnki on May 22, 2008 5:26 PM EDT up 0 recs

So now that Lee is finally doing well in the rotation again, you want to move him to the bullpen for the postseason? I’m not sure if you would want to use a pitcher as a spot reliever like Leyland did with the Marlins or if you’re advocating a move for Sabathia or Lee into a full-time relief role like we did with Laffey last year. If Byrd isn’t good enough for relief (“too many homers”), why would you want him logging more innings than Lee as a playoff starter? I feel like I’m missing the point here.

by Pronk33 on May 19, 2008 3:48 PM EDT 0 recs

I honestly questioned the sincerity of this post. Now that I see it is sincere, I suddenly feel confused and out of touch. In my worldview, making your best pitcher (at present) pitch 2-4 innings per series vs. pitching 12-14 innings is…umm…an odd decision?

by Thommy on May 19, 2008 6:40 PM EDT 0 recs