Shapiro on giving Marte some goddam at-bats
Q: Mark, is there a chance of, like you're plugging in that young guy, I mean, for the heck of it, Andy Marte? I mean, the guys who are playing now, obviously haven't done a whole lot. With Casey's flexibility, it wouldn't necessarily be you have to bench Casey, you can move other people around in the outfield. Could you see more of Andy?Shapiro: You know, I ...Q: He's only gotten eleven at-bats!Shapiro: ... I think that one's probably more for Eric, you know, what he's doing with the existing guys on the team, but I do think he's expressed some openness to playing some different guys and trying to see if someone can pick up our offense that's in-house here as well.Q: Mark, is there a lot of discussion on Andy Marte between you and Eric? It just seems like it's a roster spot where he only plays sporadically, and you're not gonna see a whole lot I don't think out of a guy that plays sporadically in that position.Shapiro: Yeah, I mean I think at such time as we feel that we've got a better use for the roster spot, that becomes something for us to discuss, but, you know it's still an area where we still need to, you know, to watch him play a little more. We've seen some positive things, we have a long-term need at that position as well. But, I think what we're waiting for is for him to get the opportunity this year, a chance to play, or, you know, our hands to be forced at some point. But we're hopeful that we'll get the opportunity to play him and give him a chance.
10 days ago
Jay
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But we’re hopeful that we’ll get the opportunity to play him and give him a chance.
I would think that Casey Blake has provided that opportunity by hitting .202/.286/.340.
by Ryan on
May 6, 2008 12:29 AM EDT
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Don’t shortchange Casey, he’s also got 5 errors.
Despite all of my best intentions, I have not, in fact, grown up to be a debaser.
by zempf on
May 6, 2008 9:42 AM EDT
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And he got his 5 errors in…...six chances.
by NickFantana on
May 6, 2008 11:20 AM EDT
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Yeah, I think that’s probably a question in an area I’d defer to Casey - I mean, to Eric, insofar as it touches on how we’re using his - Casey’s - roster spot, you know, and as Casey’s performance continues, we’ll continue to keep an eye on the situation. It’s a matter of, well, of utilizing our in-house options, and one element of that could certainly be Andy under the right circumstances. Really, you look at it as, well, I think there are two general points at play here, one of those being, is this a guy who we feel is prepared, performance-wise, to take a regular place in Eric’s line-up - I mean, in terms of character and demeanor, Andy is 100 percent the guy we traded for, and we still feel very strongly about him on that front—but can he take the positive aspects of his performance so far and extend those in the context of playing every day?
What’s the other point?
You know, I could answer that, but it might be a better question for Chris.
by fleerdon on
May 6, 2008 9:44 AM EDT
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what the hell mark. you are the GM. you are wedge’s boss. make the freaking call if wedge won’t play him. i don’t care if that shows up the manager. you are RUNNING THE TEAM.
i’m just not in a good mood
Sizemore-Shapiro 2008. The Official Red Bull of Let's Go Tribe Game Threads.
by Gradyforpresident on
May 6, 2008 12:38 AM EDT
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Two separate conclusions can be drawn from this.
1) Wedge is pushing Shapiro around with regards to Marte.
2) Shapiro has little faith in Marte also.
I think it is probably much more 2) than 1).
by oxforddave on
May 6, 2008 9:23 AM EDT
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I’m beginning to think it’s #2 more and more everyday. I think neither has faith in Marte (right or wrong) and don’t think that he represents an upgrade, regardless of how poorly Blake has played.
by The DiaTriber on
May 6, 2008 9:54 AM EDT
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i just listened to that audio – man i love shapiro. he is direct, honest, and doesnt have inane sport-vocab.
my helmet has, like, no pine tar on it.
by joeee on
May 6, 2008 2:41 AM EDT
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I didn’t listen to the audio, but that transcript makes me want to punch a wall with how he dances around the issue. Shap was just knocked down a few pegs in my book.
by supermarioelia on
May 6, 2008 8:08 AM EDT
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i agree mario
Sizemore-Shapiro 2008. The Official Red Bull of Let's Go Tribe Game Threads.
by Gradyforpresident on
May 6, 2008 11:28 AM EDT
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hm, i dont know. i sort of interpret shap’s comments and recent actions to mean that casey is pretty much over. i could be inventing, i suppose.
my helmet has, like, no pine tar on it.
by joeee on
May 6, 2008 12:04 PM EDT
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Oh and speaking of Marte, has this guy ever written anything useful about the Tribe? Between preseason and now this, he’s really starting to grind my gears.
by supermarioelia on
May 6, 2008 9:25 AM EDT
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I’ve been avoiding Fanhouse and Deadspin for literally months now, but stupid me decides yesterday to look for juicy gossip about Marvin Harrison. That’ll teach me.
by supermarioelia on
May 6, 2008 9:41 AM EDT
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Is there anything false or misleading in this piece?
by oxforddave on
May 6, 2008 9:56 AM EDT
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The way he explains it makes it sound as if Wilson Betemit was the top prospect in baseball when the Braves traded him. That’s misleading because its not true. He doesn’t mention the Braves prospects that have done well, Wainwright and Odalis Perez (don’t laugh, he was pretty good for the Dodgers), and instead just mentions Meyer and Marte.
by ClarkM on
May 6, 2008 10:09 AM EDT
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Just the usual lack of nuance and knowledge of how the situation has evolved. No mention that Marte was injured early in 2007, lost his big-league job for no other reason and hasn’t been given any opportunity to get it back.
Marte’s “fall from grace” has all happened within the past year. He struggled at times in 2006 but rebounded. He was viewed with cautious optimism entering 2007, and he was handed a major-league starting job that he more or less had earned in 1.5 precocious seasons at Triple-A and a decent three-month audition in Cleveland.
The article suggests that Marte is not being used now because he was disappointing in the minors. That is more or less factual, but it’s more truthful to say that they Indians shoved a young player away in a closet, and he failed to respond to being treated that way.
Shapiro insists that the Indians never make decisions based on a few weeks or even a few months of data, they’re looking at a track record over many years. He also likes to say that the players make most of the decisions for them. I don’t think either of these concepts can be said to have been reasonably applied to Marte, or for that matter to Blake.
by Jay on
May 6, 2008 10:13 AM EDT
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Is it just me, or have we been more critical of Shap over the past few months than ever before? I know losing will tend to bring this out, but I don’t remember this undertone of questioning being present during our struggles last summer.
by supermarioelia on
May 6, 2008 10:18 AM EDT
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i am feeling just angry – ANGRY I SAY – over this issue. it’s starting to agitate me as much as the primary race
Sizemore-Shapiro 2008. The Official Red Bull of Let's Go Tribe Game Threads.
by Gradyforpresident on
May 6, 2008 11:31 AM EDT
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Is it beneficial to let Marte sit on the bench before trying to sneak him through waivers? Does minimizing his plate appearances / time in the field make him less appealing to some other team?
I would say there’s a chance that is true, but it only takes one team claiming him to ruin that plan…..methinks our front office is smarter than that.
by Ohiokie on
May 6, 2008 9:39 AM EDT
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I don’t think having him sit makes him less attractive. It only invites the supposition that he’s mostly in the wrong place. When a formerly highly prospect and costly rated trade piece rots on a bench, people assume the manager doesn’t like him.
by Jay on
May 6, 2008 9:56 AM EDT
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I think it does. Especially when he has Casey Blake in front of him. When you have someone performing as badly as Casey and Marter still isn’t getting playing time then teams start to wonder what the Indians are seeing in Marte.
by gahnki on
May 6, 2008 5:01 PM EDT
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I agree with Mario re: dancing around the issue. I understand the need for it, but you could take his statements however you want to take them. Some examples:
... I do think he’s expressed some openness to playing some different guys and trying to see if someone can pick up our offense that’s in-house here as well.
A. Eric and I had a talk about this, and while I’m not going to tell you that I ordered him to play Marte, I did make him admit that he’d been fairly stubborn and irrational about using Marte, and he said he’d work on it.
B. Hey, he’s been using Jamey Carroll more than the bare minimum, and he’s going to work in Francisco as more than just a platoon guy, so obviously he’s open to this kind of thing in general. If he doesn’t want to use Marte, he obviously has reasons for it that don’t apply to those other guys.
Yeah, I mean I think at such time as we feel that we’ve got a better use for the roster spot, that becomes something for us to discuss …
A. At some point, I’ll have to step in and ask Wedge why he’s failed to make use of this roster spot.
B. We’re prepared to jettison this guy anytime we really need to free up a roster spot.
... but, you know it’s still an area where we still need to, you know, to watch him play a little more. We’ve seen some positive things, we have a long-term need at that position as well.
A. We need to watch him play a little more, ergo, he needs to play more. What we’ve seen so far has been positive, and bottom line, we need him in 2009, so it would benefit us to get him going in 2008.
B. We haven’t seen enough of him at this level to change our mediocre impression of the player, and we may not get that chance. Not everything we’ve seen has been positive, and in his overall performance and attitude, Marte has put us in a box not just for 2008, but for 2009 and possibly beyond.
But, I think what we’re waiting for is for him to get the opportunity this year, a chance to play, or, you know, our hands to be forced at some point.
A. I’m waiting for Wedge to play the guy, because why would we give up on him without giving him a chance—over Casey Blake? With any luck, Blake will get injured, and then Wedge will have to play him.
B. He hasn’t had an opportunity because our priority is trying to put his best team on the field and get them going, which in Eric’s judgment so far has meant giving Blake as much work as possible to get in a groove, but that probably won’t last forever. At some point, we may have to dump him to create a roster spot, and we’re prepared to do that even without giving him a longer look.
But we’re hopeful that we’ll get the opportunity to play him and give him a chance.
A. We really want to give him a chance.
B. Getting an opportunity to play him and give him a chance is pretty damned low on our list of strategic priorities; we ‘re just “hoping” for it because we’re not going to make it happen of our own volition.
by Jay on
May 6, 2008 9:54 AM EDT
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Agreed. I, the Marte unbeliever, like having him on the roster. If Blake gets injured, or continues to digress even more, the tribe needs an option. It is unfortunate for the tribe that they cannot keep him in Buffalo, but that is the way it is. We are a month in, things can change fast.
by oxforddave on
May 6, 2008 10:02 AM EDT
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OH GOD PLEASE BE A!!! PICK A!!!!!
The thing that I couldn’t really draw from his comments was the timeframe on when these discussions with Wedge took place. My first reaction was that they were probably a summary of a month’s worth of conversations, which gave me no hope at all that things will change. But if these are semi-new revelations from the past few days…well then we might have turned a corner.
by supermarioelia on
May 6, 2008 10:22 AM EDT
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I just feel going into this season they assumed that there would be injuries (either to Blake, Garko or one of the outfielders and Blake fills in out there) and this would free up the 3b spot for Marte to slide in. He would get a nice window of solid playtime and they could decide on his fate from there.
I don’t think they anticipated:
Blake doing so poorly
the team struggling like it is (second worst in the AL?).
virtually no injuries among the position players (aside from Victor)
Shapiro has always talked about assessing his team after every 40 games. Well, that’s only a few weeks away. We should see something different by then.
by Toxicadam on
May 6, 2008 10:35 AM EDT
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That’s wierd.
should say: Blake doing so poorly, the team struggling offensively and virtually no injuries
by Toxicadam on
May 6, 2008 10:44 AM EDT
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Great work on this. I love Shap, but this is pretty disgusting.
The last line is beyond absurd to me. If you’re in charge, you don’t “hope you get the opportunity” to play somebody. You decide to play him or sit him. Even in euphamism-drenched sports talk, Shap is spewing garbage here.
by tabler84 on
May 7, 2008 11:53 AM EDT
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Yeah, that part is what got me, too. He is giving Wedge some cover by talking in these terms, but it’s just nonsense.
by Jay on
May 7, 2008 12:55 PM EDT
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You would have thought one of our able-bodied area “reporters” would have asked the question, “Doesn’t Marte have the ‘opportunity’ to play now?”
by APV on
May 7, 2008 1:13 PM EDT
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I am actually surprised that the two questions above were even asked; for Cleveland sports writers, that is pretty aggressive.
by Jay on
May 7, 2008 1:32 PM EDT
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which is why we all thought it was you
Sizemore-Shapiro 2008. The Official Red Bull of Let's Go Tribe Game Threads.
by Gradyforpresident on
May 7, 2008 2:30 PM EDT
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i thought for sure this was satire by jay and was laughing along till i got down to the link. then i was sad.
by Brick. on
May 6, 2008 10:33 AM EDT
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that makes two of us.
You know Selig? Ombudsman.
by rolub on
May 6, 2008 10:34 AM EDT
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four
Sizemore-Shapiro 2008. The Official Red Bull of Let's Go Tribe Game Threads.
by Gradyforpresident on
May 6, 2008 11:35 AM EDT
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Understand that Shapiro would need to choose his words carefully so as to avoid undermining Wedge or any of the players. Sometimes the questioner doesn’t understand that the interviewee has nothing to gain and everything to lose by answering a question frankly. The one feeling that comes across strongly is that Shapiro is willing to communicate to the world that he would not impose himself on Eric’s day to day management of the team. And it’s good to have a GM that understands his role and the division of labor in any healthy org. So, it seems to be a sophisiticated way of telling the questioner to pose the question to the man who has the authority in these matters, Wedge.
by elsandito on
May 6, 2008 10:45 AM EDT
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good point about shapiro and not stepping on toes (at least in public).
was pluto the questioner? i think so. let’s hope he continues to pester wedge on the same issue.
by macasson on
May 6, 2008 1:19 PM EDT
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Casey Blake. I can’t hate the guy and he has been a valuable contributor, but the loyalty to him is a major problem. Not only does Marte only have 11 at-bats, but he has been asked to show bunt in I feel like over half of them. You are never going to hit when you are wasting strikes on bunt attempts.
Marte has the potential for something this team sorely lacks right now, power. We have good OBP guys but with Hafner down, the slugging is really lacking on this team.
by Roger Dorn on
May 6, 2008 11:31 AM EDT
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And he’s still turned a few of those into decent atbats. I’m getting pretty tired of pissing into the wind here. It’s starting to make quite the mess.
by supermarioelia on
May 6, 2008 11:39 AM EDT
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Marte won’t see any regular playing time until he’s learned most of the Victor handshaking celebrations. Wedge has repeatedly asked Vic to simplify and just use a knuckle bump, but Vic won’t budge on this. The younger players such as Marte have struggled to perform during practice sessions.
by elsandito on
May 6, 2008 11:40 AM EDT
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see, now this makes about the most sense.
Sizemore-Shapiro 2008. The Official Red Bull of Let's Go Tribe Game Threads.
by Gradyforpresident on
May 6, 2008 11:55 AM EDT
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But, I think what we’re waiting for is for him to get the opportunity this year, a chance to play, or, you know, our hands to be forced at some point. But we’re hopeful that we’ll get the opportunity to play him and give him a chance.What the no-profanity-except-in-game-threads is that supposed to mean? Has Marte been given a double-secret 50-game suspension by the league? Has he been transported into another dimension, leaving just a hologram behind on the bench? Has he chewed his own foot off and they’re waiting for it to grow back? The plain fact is that Marte has an “opportunity to play” every mother-scratching night and there is absolutely nothing preventing Wedge from writing his name on the lineup card. When the organization’s chief operating officer suggests that they need to wait for an “opportunity” to present itself, this is blame-shifting-with the blame falling on fate, or God, or nobody-of the worst, most odious sort.
[end of rant]
by Fiddlesticks on
May 6, 2008 12:02 PM EDT
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shap seems to defer to the people around him – scouts, coaches, wedge, et cetera. might it be out of character for him to say, outright, “i’m directly overriding wedge here. just so you know: marte is hitting in the 7 spot for the next 40 games.” again, this might be a delusion, i just think that marte is closer than some of us think.
my helmet has, like, no pine tar on it.
by joeee on
May 6, 2008 12:07 PM EDT
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When the organization’s chief operating officer suggests that they need to wait for an "opportunity" to present itself,
Not only waiting, but hoping, which can only be interpreted as hoping for an injury.
by SuddenSam on
May 6, 2008 1:26 PM EDT
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I think the “no profanity rule” should be lifted for anything referencing Marte. As a matter of fact, maybe we need just the opposite, where every post regarding Marte must also have some profanity.
by William Gerard Nahorodny on
May 6, 2008 12:05 PM EDT
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I am picturing the conclusion of this story right now. Marte finally gets a fair chance to play, fails miserably and we all feel like idiots.
Obviously not the point of all this clamoring. It’s the opportunity, Wedgie, that’s all.
by Roger Dorn on
May 6, 2008 12:13 PM EDT
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I didn’t hear a HARUMPH outta THAT guy.
YOU BETTER WATCH YOUR ASS.
by gte619n on
May 6, 2008 5:26 PM EDT
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Reality is, this is all about some internal “culture” issue, which, in general, Shapiro must agree with. But I think his statements indicate that, while he won’t publicly admit to even a slight difference of opinion, Shapiro understands that this is a need for the organization both in the long and short term. And I think we should believe that behind closed doors Shapiro has let Wedge know that Marte should get more time—like now. “What he’s doing with existing guys on the team,” very subtly reinforces the notion that, while he may not insist on Wedge making lineup changes, that roster moves are likewise ultimately Shapiro’s domain. In this light, cutting Michaels, not Marte, at this point surely says something, especially when there’s just no denying how badly Blake has played at third. I am hoping it’s somewhat of a warning shot, perhaps not just directed at the players, but at Wedge as well. And yet all within their institutional/cultural defined roles.
by William Gerard Nahorodny on
May 6, 2008 12:25 PM EDT
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I expect someone to get on the following photoshop project ASAP:


by APV on
May 6, 2008 12:40 PM EDT
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damn…my pictures didn’t seem to work (at least for me). Feel free to insert your own Casey Blake and/or Mark Shapiro picture of your choice.
by APV on
May 6, 2008 12:48 PM EDT
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Could you have come up with a more goofy, less fearsome shot of Marte if you tried?
by Jay on
May 6, 2008 6:21 PM EDT
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Despite all of my best intentions, I have not, in fact, grown up to be a debaser.
by zempf on
May 6, 2008 1:51 PM EDT
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not a bad start, but I’m not sure it conveys what I had in mind. It just kind of looks like Marte’s radioactive (perhaps appropriate?....) or is guest starring in an episode of Scooby Doo and has become frightened (perhaps appropriate?...)
by APV on
May 6, 2008 2:09 PM EDT
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Or it’s something like zombie Marte. BRAAAAAAAAAAINS… BRAAAAAAAAAAAINS… PLAYING TIIIIIIIIME…
Despite all of my best intentions, I have not, in fact, grown up to be a debaser.
by zempf on
May 6, 2008 4:45 PM EDT
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How about this one?