It is what it is. If he wants to yell and scream after a strikeout, I guess that's what gets him...

It is what it is. If he wants to yell and scream after a strikeout, I guess that's what gets him going. It's May baseball.

The home run was in a much bigger situation. I didn't dance and scream. If a hitter did something like that, it would be bush.

It's kind of interesting how a pitcher gets away with it.

Dave Dellucci

about 1 year ago Jay Comment 167 comments 0 recs |

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Of course this had to come on the last game between the two teams. This could have become interesting.

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on May 8, 2008 10:40 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

The “personal celebration” is a negative twist in team sports. This would include the football TD or sack dance and the various gestures in basketball. Animated gesturing by a pitcher or hitter communicate the wrong message. These are team sports and, unlike golf or tennis, it is desprectful to your own teammates when you imply that your effort stands above theirs. On the other hand, group celebrations seem fine.

by elsandito on May 8, 2008 10:49 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Well us old guys remember when Jim Brown usta flip the football to the official after scoring one of his 126 TDs. The spike thing started with Ronnie Reagan – every thing bad starts with him – in that Knute Rochne travesty. But Sandy, you and I are a coupla old men, we remember when all athletes respected one another and had some class- that’s seems like it was during another eon.

"the most vehement Yankee-hating guy I know" - Jay

by mauichuck on May 9, 2008 7:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It was an age when most people were satisfied with whatever drama the game itself produced. And, admittedly, there were plenty of games that didn’t produce a heck of a lot of drama. Now that sports have become so lucrative, any additional drama that keeps people interested is welcome by all of the parties that benefit from this windfall. The fans enjoy the intrigue (unless it’s your qb that is laying there while some guy does his sack dance). I’m in favor of whatever keeps the fans coming back.

by elsandito on May 9, 2008 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Of all the personal celebrations in sports, for me the sack dance is the worst. You did your job. Go back to the huddle and high five your teammates there.

Free Andy Marte!

Pronk Needs You

by woodsmeister on May 9, 2008 8:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed. The sack is a huge, dramatic play, and just taking down the QB ought to be satisfying enough.

by Jay on May 9, 2008 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The only appropriate “celebratory” response to a sack is the in-the-moment yell in the guy’s face you just threw down move. That I can stand by. Dances? Unless you’re a sissy running back in the end zone, there should be no dances in football.

by APV on May 9, 2008 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I crack up when I see a guy do the sack dance and his team is down 20 pts. I tell myself, do ya have to let the world know what a clown you are?

by elsandito on May 9, 2008 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

My dad always says that his HS coach told them, “If you do something well, walk away like you expected to be that good.”

by fleerdon on May 9, 2008 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don’t know … I find it worse when someone down 35-7 makes the first down signal, or when a DB celebrates a tackle after the WR gets 8 on 2nd and 10.

The Disabled List just called ... it was trying to unload Joe Borowski. I offered a bagel but balked at giving up a ham sandwich. It wanted to keep Westbrook.

by westbrook on May 9, 2008 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Those two are at the top of my list, but #1 is when a DB makes a tackle after the ballcarrier gets the first down. 2nd and 6, tight end catches a pass across the middle for a 9-yard gain. Cornerback comes across and trips him up by the ankles, gets up, and does a little shimmy.

You know Selig? Ombudsman.

by rolub on May 9, 2008 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

yea that too. I don’t even notice those any more – probably block the idiots out.

The Disabled List just called ... it was trying to unload Joe Borowski. I offered a bagel but balked at giving up a ham sandwich. It wanted to keep Westbrook.

by westbrook on May 9, 2008 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Dellucci is totally old school. I love it.

Remember when Barfield and Jason Phillips had a collision last year? Phillips yelled out after Barfield and Dellucci got right up in Phillips’ grill. Totally had Barfield’s back!

NBR (No Borowski Run): Refers to that run which puts the Indians up by 4 over an opponent, thereby drastically reducing the chances of Joe Borowski pitching in a game.

by crazymoloh on May 8, 2008 10:49 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

That was great.

BBTN just showed Dellucci’s reaction to his home run on Tuesday. It could not have been more restrained and professional. As low-key as you’re imagining it was, having just read that, it was even a little more low-key. Huge contrast.

by Jay on May 8, 2008 10:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i remember that. just fantastic. i don’t know why more clevelanders aren’t in love with dellucci. dude has a beard and everything.

by Brick. on May 8, 2008 11:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Old school, baby!

NBR (No Borowski Run): Refers to that run which puts the Indians up by 4 over an opponent, thereby drastically reducing the chances of Joe Borowski pitching in a game.

by crazymoloh on May 9, 2008 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

A new entry for the D-bag of the year contest. Be warned, Pedroia.

“That’s who I am,” Chamberlain said. “Everybody knows that.”

by macasson on May 8, 2008 11:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Deal with it.

by Brick. on May 8, 2008 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It really is a pity they won’t met again during the regular season.

by macasson on May 8, 2008 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

O’Doyle Rules!!!

by APV on May 9, 2008 12:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

fer now i have to study

what are you doing at this hour? studying . . . or . . . drinking?

by macasson on May 9, 2008 12:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

waking up….6 am my time…got to get busy measuring bones

by APV on May 9, 2008 1:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I admire the work ethic. I’ll be in Germany – Swabian Albs – to work on a project later in the summer, though I hope there won’t be too many 6am wake-up calls.

by macasson on May 9, 2008 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think it indicates Dellucci got into Chamberlain’s thick head.

I was trying to think of other demonstrative closers. Of the great closers I can think of-Rivera, Sutter, Lee Smith, Gossage, Trevor Hoffman, Kent Tekulve, Dan Quisenberry, etc.-I don’t remember any of them doing that sort of stuff.

by odradek on May 9, 2008 12:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Eckersley dude – you know that whole upper-cut/fist pump thing. That’s why I loved it when Gibson shoved it up his ass.

"the most vehement Yankee-hating guy I know" - Jay

by mauichuck on May 9, 2008 7:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, you’re right. I put that out of mind.

by odradek on May 9, 2008 9:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I loved Manny’s shot off him too.

by dgcambridge on May 9, 2008 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I’m sure pimplebutt will have a say before the year is out.

by cclemens31 on May 9, 2008 1:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i personally like the kind of leader dellucci is. not as pie in your face as some guys, but he plays his cards when it matters most.

by Brick. on May 8, 2008 11:03 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I love when professional athletes come off as rational and low-key.

I also love Dellucci as opposed to Dellichaels.

Il faut d'abord durer.

by CU Adam on May 8, 2008 11:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

DD has cemented himself as a favorite and a regular. So freaking solid.

Oh, and to Joba, DUDE. You have pitched 37 big league innings. I know you’re the most over-hyped thing since Jeter (I literally gagged when I heard Susan Waldman describe a swing as “Jeterian”), but it’s a little early for you to say “Everybody knows” about you.

Don’t worry, though; now, everyone does know. That you’re a douchebag.

by tabler84 on May 8, 2008 11:32 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

How can you possibly keep your food down while listening to Waldman? She’s put female sports announcing back at least 20 years.

She’s an embarrassment to baseball, an embarrassment to your profession and an embarrassment to the Yankee organization – as if you could possibly embarrass that bunch of morons.

"the most vehement Yankee-hating guy I know" - Jay

by mauichuck on May 9, 2008 7:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You know, females in “traditionally male” broadcasting is a strange thing. Waldman is cripplingly bad; it’s not just that she’s annoying - she is, but so are most men - it’s that she has a very weak grasp of the game itself. She’s also utterly clueless when she takes 15 minutes to read the out-of-town scoreboard. I mean, do I need her to interrupt a 2-on, 2-out situation to tell me it’s 1-1, bottom of the second in Pittsburgh?

The problem is that there are undoubtedly scores of over-qualified women, and yet Waldman tarnishes her gender’s image. I’m not saying it’s fair; it’s not, really, but your post sums up what a lot of fans think.

And there are many examples of same. Katie Couric was nicely suited to morning news; she is simply incapable of handling a role of a leading journalist and anchor. When she started at CBS, they wanted her on 60 Minutes. My wife could not even watch her pieces; they had the journalistic depth of a parking lot puddle and her reading cadence smacked of a college student—sophomore year. So what happens? Some people conclude that women ought not have that “traditionally male” role in broadcasting.

Of course, it’s wrong, and if physical appearance weren’t such a deciding factor, Christiane Amanpour would have landed Couric’s job. And we’d all be talking about what a solid journalist she is.

by tabler84 on May 9, 2008 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Christiane Amanpour is tops, and she ain’t bad looking (not that it matters).

I think that ESPN has made great strides in employing women commentators in male-dominated roles, with mixed results.

I think Doris Burke does a very fine job on ESPN, doing the NBA games. She was excellent last night in the Spurs-Hornets game. When I first heard her doing NBA games, it was a bit off-putting (solely due to the uniqueness of having a woman fill a job a that I had really only heard men do) but now I just enjoy her actual commentary. I haven’t reached that point (yet?) with Pam Ward for the college football games on ESPN – I just find her tremendously boring.

by macasson on May 9, 2008 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Rachel Nichols is THE WORST! I have no problem with female sportscasters at all…I probably prefer them. But Rachel Nichols on ESPN…I Hate! Anyone whose broadcast style feels like a spoof of the dailyshow spoofing real news loses in my book.

by APV on May 9, 2008 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, the analysts and sideline reporters are a mixed bag, to say the least. Shelly Smith is the anti-Rachel Nichols, though we could just as easily play this game with the male analysts, etc. It’s seems like a much more significant barrier to have women doing play-by-play (Ward) and analysis (Burke) of live games – and it was so conspicuous at first. I can only imagine the kind of feedback ESPN must’ve received and commend their initiative. But I digress . . .

(Luckily I previewed this message and caught the typo ‘play-by-lay’, instead of ‘play-by-play’!)

by macasson on May 9, 2008 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

agree strongly. the absolute worst.

by dgcambridge on May 9, 2008 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Her delivery is pretty weak, but I think her reporting is pretty good.

by Jay on May 9, 2008 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

“pretty weak?!!?”

It’s like a South Park version of the news. I just can’t get over it. There are certainly a lot of male reporters, ex-athletes especially, with no business near a camera. But Nichols’s style drives me bonkers. I just HATE IT.

by APV on May 9, 2008 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, her delivery drives me crazy. We’ll see how it plays here.

by dgcambridge on May 9, 2008 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don’t think looks cost Amanpour that gig, it was the accent.

Women seemed to be blocked from more serious journalism career paths that would be high-profile enough to put her in play for the anchor’s job. Have you actually watched the TODAY show? It’s not exactly boot-camp for what used to be the top pure-journalism job on television, and Couric’s “serious interviews” were never all that impressive. She was highly successful and famous in that role, and that’s what got her this new gig, but it didn’t make her right for the new gig. It isn’t clear to me that Matt Lauer would do much better — although, it would be hard for any professional broadcast, man or woman, to do much worse.

Let’s not pretend either that men’s looks haven’t been a significant factor in getting these gigs for decades. Not everybody is considered to have a face/personality combination that works for that role. There should be no outrage or surprised, because other than her fame and success hosting a variety show, she wasn’t really all that qualified.

by Jay on May 9, 2008 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I dig Lara Logan’s reporting (first and foremost) and her looks for CBS…

by APV on May 9, 2008 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ha! I have two thoughts about Lara Logan:

1) In the top 5 most beautiful women on the planet, and
2) In the top 1 worst reporters on the planet

by tabler84 on May 9, 2008 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

really (on #2)...

Admitedly, I don’t watch much network news these days. But I remember a lot of really good reports from her over the past few years. Reports which, unlike just about everything else I hear on network news, I left saying, “huh…I didn’t know that…”

by APV on May 9, 2008 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I know we’re way off course in this discussion, but whatever…

You’re bang on with the observation that accent - nationality - is a big issue when choosing your lead anchor. Americans just like Americans—c’mon, man, ain’t we patriotic? And we could really go down a long road of discussion here, but I’ll just say that news is changing (thank god) and appointment viewing will continue to shrink. Anchors are not the same category anymore, and I’m happy to see that.

But if Amanpour were American, I promise you the physical appearance would be an impediment to her getting a network lead job. Men’s looks are certainly considered, but women are held to different standards in that department.

As a side and humorous note, a recent website offered a guessing game—look at the picture and guess, “porn star or Fox News anchor?” It was pretty tough.

by tabler84 on May 9, 2008 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

peter jennings was always my favorite.

response from mario in 5…4…3…2…

by emil minty on May 9, 2008 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Peter Jennings was not the only Canadian to have been a highly successful news anchor/reporter in the US. John Roberts, from CNN, and Peter Kent (used to be on NBC) are a couple of other examples. As an aside, Lorne Greene, ex-Bonanza star, was a news anchor on Canadian TV before he moved to Hollywood. Yes, accents matter, but Americans don’t always know from where the accent they’re listening to comes.

One thing left out so far in the discussion of female sports reporters is that the fact that they are relatively “rare” makes them more visible—we notice them (and their strengths and weaknesses) more because they’re unusual. People also have a tendency to pigeon-hole them as “female” sports reporters (we don’t identify the gender of male sports reporters routinely) which leads at least some people to see them through that lens.

by peter m on May 9, 2008 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

maybe this is just me, but I don’t think of Rachel Nichols as female…I think of her as cartoonish (in a non-gendered way).

by APV on May 9, 2008 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

the poorly dyed ‘red’ hair is, indeed, non-human

by macasson on May 9, 2008 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hard to say, as Couric is one of the only examples to date, but my gut reaction is that a woman with Amanpour’s package of skills and looks could get the job.

by Jay on May 9, 2008 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed. And I like her accent too.

"the most vehement Yankee-hating guy I know" - Jay

by mauichuck on May 9, 2008 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

HIRE DELLUCCI!

The Disabled List just called ... it was trying to unload Joe Borowski. I offered a bagel but balked at giving up a ham sandwich. It wanted to keep Westbrook.

by westbrook on May 8, 2008 11:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Also!

Don’t really feel like announcing this anywhere else, but … please note …

the FanShots are now on the left column, and just a couple inches below the FanPosts. They are as high up on the page as the system presently allows them to be placed, and hopefully this will inspire more confidence that if you post them, they’ll get read. I read everything, and I think hundreds of others basically read everything, too.

by Jay on May 8, 2008 11:42 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Just an idea, but if there was someway for you to have the number of new comments bolded for fanshots like they are for fanposts, I think that would really help.

You have no idea the physical toll that three vasectomies have on a person

by jakesinger777 on May 9, 2008 12:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Seconded.

by supermarioelia on May 9, 2008 8:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I’ve been meaning to put in a request for that, obviously it’s the sensible thing to do.

by Jay on May 9, 2008 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i read every post

Sizemore-Shapiro 2008. The Official Red Bull of Let's Go Tribe Game Threads.

by Gradyforpresident on May 9, 2008 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I also read everything. Speaking of which, just a day or two ago you were worried about non-game thread participation Jay. Are your fears allayed after this recent bonanza?

by NickFantana on May 9, 2008 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think having a weekday “pre-game” post up in the A.M. would be a great addition to LGT. It would be a place for people to post their thoughts on the night before and a general place to shoot the sh-t about other OT items of the day while people are at work.

by Toxicadam on May 9, 2008 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

That idea is so good it makes me want to punch a cop.

by NickFantana on May 9, 2008 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

That generally happens in the Game Recap threads.

by Jay on May 9, 2008 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Haha I was just going to say that keeping up with comments has become a fulltime job.

by supermarioelia on May 9, 2008 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Why didn’t Dellucci just do something like this at the beginning of the season so we could have avoided all that, “why do we even have Dellucci?...” stuff

by APV on May 9, 2008 12:01 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Susan Waldmyn, your thoughts?

“Oh my goodness gracious!!”

Yeah, I love Dellucci’s comments as well. If Joba keeps this up, a Yankee hitter will get one in the ear sooner or later, and he may have a comment for Joba.

Girardi was quoted as saying that it was basically ok since he wasn’t looking at DD when he did it. I wonder if he would’ve felt the same way if a pitcher had done that after striking him out when he was playing.

by TribeJay on May 9, 2008 12:12 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

If having your player spike a guy in spring training is any indication, he would have had a problem.

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on May 9, 2008 12:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

short memory?

i remember your boy sabathia had a similar reaction after a big strikeout last week in cleveland.

face it. guys like joba, sabathia, k-rod, zambrano, and papelbon are cut from the same cloth emotionally. none of us have ever been in the spotlight like they have—how do we dare to try to dictate how athletes react in different situations when we couldn’t possibly imagine the adrenaline that courses through the body in ball games.

by tombradylikesdudes on May 9, 2008 1:27 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

True he did, however that came at the bottom of the 6th with a runner on 2nd to lead off the inning in a close 0-1 ballgame. That’s quite a bit different than screaming in victory after you’ve struck out the last batter to end an inning with no one on and the game fairly out of reach. If that’s the criteria for acting like that, he’d better get used to looking foolish because striking out the last batter at the end of the eighth just isn’t a big deal.

by cclemens31 on May 9, 2008 2:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hey, when Joba wins the Cy, he can do whatever he wants.

by baergagaga on May 9, 2008 5:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Let’s wait to see how we feel when CC is wearing pinstripes and pumping his fist after facing one of our own. I don’t foresee the kind of berth we give him now.

by elsandito on May 9, 2008 8:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wow, we’re getting lecture on class by a guy who calls himself tombradylikesdudes? Ya gotta love the Internet!

"the most vehement Yankee-hating guy I know" - Jay

by mauichuck on May 9, 2008 7:59 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

cclemens pretty much nails it. if Dellucci had runners on 2nd and 3rd and was struck out, no doubt that would be a time to show emotion. But doing it at that point is just a reflection on his youth and fragile mental state.

It’s akin to a wide receiver celebrating a 15 yard catch on 2nd and 20.

by Toxicadam on May 9, 2008 8:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Nah.

Disclaimer: this post doesn't mean what you think it means.

by AngG on May 9, 2008 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don’t have that much a problem with individual celebrations when called for – walkoff homerun, strikeout with the bases loaded in the ninth, etc. For example, the Torii Hunter walk-off grand slam off Borowski earlier in the season – no problem with that at all. But like others have said, the celebrations for “ordinary” plays is extremely annoying. Papelbon gets a three-run save and goes nuts. Milton Bradley hits a home run in the third inning and stares at it. I certainly understand why Dellucci said what he said.

by Ryan on May 9, 2008 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

cc a few weeks ago and typical joba are over the top. fausto striking out a-rod in the alds and merery fist pumping and running off the field seems more the right speed to me.

by Brick. on May 9, 2008 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

when Fausto struck out A-Rod in that game, sacrificing a live animal would have seemed the right speed to me

by APV on May 9, 2008 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Was it that hard to strike out A-Rod? I was at the game, and I always considered it a foregone conclusion.

by oxforddave on May 9, 2008 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wow. I was so stressed for that AB I barely enjoyed it, and I was there too. I was terrified that this was when A-Rod dropped the “choke” label and destroyed the Indians.

Il faut d'abord durer.

by CU Adam on May 9, 2008 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don’t think it was a foregone conclusion, although Carmona was incredibly good that night.

Strike (foul)
Ball
Strike (swinging)
Ball—Abreu steals 2B
Foul
Ball
Foul
Foul
Strike (swinging)

So it was 2-2 once Abreu stole 2B, and he fouled off three more pitches and worked a full count. I did feel Carmona had a slight upper hand the whole time, but it was the toughest out of the evening for any hitter.

by Jay on May 9, 2008 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It was the most stressed I’ve ever been about anything. Which is sort of sad, in a way, but I suppose also means I’ve had a fairly decent life (being a Cleveland sports fan notwithstanding).

Il faut d'abord durer.

by CU Adam on May 9, 2008 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Regardless of all that…by the time it got to be 2-2 with Abreu on second, every pitch I was calling on the powers of Odin just to avoid soiling myself

by APV on May 9, 2008 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I was pretty drained already when that AB occurred. But it also felt like one of those games where you know the tribe is going to win. After leaving all of the runners on base; it was grim. But then Justin gifted the tribe a run, and you knew they were going to win. My brother was at the game in 97 when Alomar hit the tying HR off of Rivera. He said it was dead quiet before that, but after it went out; the game was essentially over; you knew they were going to win. Just the opposite of game 5 against the redsox, where even though it was close most of the game, you knew they were going to lose.

by oxforddave on May 9, 2008 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don’t know…it was never certain for me. That was the best sports game I’ve watched going back to at least 2000. I was just a teenager for all those ‘90s series, but that game was awesome. Just awesome.

by APV on May 9, 2008 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I was invited to sit in a luxury box for that game and in the box directly to my right was George Steinbrenner. Not only did the fans know the game was over, but so did Georgie who left the second the ball landed.

by Roger Dorn on May 9, 2008 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I had tickets to that game but my then-girlfriend was coming to visit that evening – driving from Missouri, I think – so I waited for her to arrive before heading to the game. Long story short, she had car problems, didn’t make it to town until extra innings, and I missed the game. I did have a great time, though, just watching the game with my dad and have to agree with oxforddave that you knew they’d win after the HR.

And, the leverage I won from missing that game to wait for her was tremendous. “Honey, I love the Indians and turned down playoff tickets to what turned out to be the greatest game ever just to wait for you.” Boom.

by macasson on May 9, 2008 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yep. Jonathan Papelbon hangs out at the Grammatica School of DBag.

by tabler84 on May 9, 2008 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

FYI, everybody, I have banned this guy strictly based on his username — which, sadly, is no worse than I’ve come to expect out of a Yankees fan anyway. (I actually find it a little meta-funny, but I doubt it’s meant that way, and that still wouldn’t make it appropriate.) My note to him says that he can come back under a different name.

I agree in some ways with his basic premise, C.C. does show a lot of emotion, although he mostly seems to just yell a lot - I think deliberately avoiding gestures like fist-pumps. This is a guy who broke in surrounded by all-class professionals, guys like Travis Fryman and Ellis Burks - not the celebrity faux-class of a Derek Jeter or Roger Clemens. (Jeter likewise learned his class act from Mattingly, but with Mattingly, it wasn’t just an act, and what few players have come up under Jeter look like bad third-generation photocopies.)

Sabathia lets his emotions go in all situations, too. Justin didn’t have much trouble containing his on-field emotion when he gave up the home run, he only “had to be me” when it was (comically) in-your-face time. As in, “Ha! Now you are only batting .500/.500/2.000 against me! I am the king of three-run holds and May baseball!”

And that last point is perhaps the most salient, and it was summed up well by our old buddy Eduardo Perez last night. Paraphrasing, he said, it wasn’t an emotional situation - nobody was on base, there were two outs, and the tying run wasn’t even on deck - and it wasn’t even closing out the game. Basically, you’re celebrating a Hold, and not even a tough Hold.

And like Dellucci said … it’s May baseball.

Now, I don’t think any of this is the end of the world, and I can see Andrew’s points below. But I do think that baseball’s etiquette, sadly anachronistic, is one of the things that elevates and separates baseball from other sports, and I do enjoy rooting for my team more when my players act like Dellucci and not like Justin. Hell, it’s one of the things I appreciate about LeBron—winning or losing, his only statements to the opposition are on the court.

People forget, two nights after the Bug Game, Joba came in with an 8-3 lead and retired the first five batters. Then, with two outs in the eight, up five runs, he gave up walk, line-drive single, double to deep left. That was his first time facing the Indians after the Bug Game, and it was not much of a pressure situation. Tuesday’s walk-walk-HR was his second time after the Bug Game, his third straight appearance yielding runs to the Indians.

Justin’s career ERA against the Indians is now 4.66, compared with 0.83 for everybody else. No other team has scored more than once off him, or scored more than one run, while the Indians have scored five runs in three different games. And you can take the Bug Game out of that, and it doesn’t look much different. But that isn’t the worst part. The worst part is knowing that he was lucky to only give up one run in the Bug Game—that aside from the wild pitches, he gave up two walks and hit a guy, and that two of the three outs he got were gifted to him in the form of a sac-bunt smash-hit right at an infielder.

And when it was over, he watched Fausto go up to the same mound — face and neck just as covered in bugs, almost as young and inexperienced — and go two-pitch groundout (Damon), four-pitch strikeout (Jeter), infield single (Abreu). And the capper, after Abreu steals second, putting the winning run in scoring position, Fausto, still covered in bugs, wins a nine-pitch battle and strikes out the MVP swinging. And oh yes, that was Fausto’s eighth scoreless inning out of nine that night.

So Justin knows — the bugs were an unfair factor, but the bugs didn’t stop Fausto from continuing to shut down Jeter, Damon, Abreu and A-Rod. And the next night, there were no bugs, and he gets beat by Peralta, Lofton and Nixon.

My point? It’s never going to be the same for him against the Indians. That’s what the fist-pump was about, ultimately, and that’s good news for us. Justin can go ahead and stay un-classy, because it’s not just him—it’s us.

by Jay on May 9, 2008 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions 20 recs

can we nominate Jay for POTW?

by Brick. on May 9, 2008 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wow, man. Awesome. Promote this to the front page of SBN.

by Toxicadam on May 9, 2008 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Everytime I read Justin in place of Joba I giggle

by Roger Dorn on May 9, 2008 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Woah! Crazy green post!

by Voltaire on May 9, 2008 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

is that from 5 recs?

by Brick. on May 9, 2008 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think so. Motivation to rec posts! But wait! Let’s do it in a pattern! Quick, create a morse code message in the next game thread!

by Voltaire on May 9, 2008 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i’ve been rec’ing a lot more comments lately, for what it’s worth.

by Brick. on May 9, 2008 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

FYI, the green only becomes visible when you re-load the page … a comment’s green-ness does not auto-update.

by Jay on May 9, 2008 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It’s minty green! For freshness!

Free Andy Marte!

Pronk Needs You

by woodsmeister on May 9, 2008 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

My nominee for post of the week.

If I had not already swallowed my coffee, that comment would have had me cleaning off my screen.

by 94neverout on May 9, 2008 8:30 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

sorry, that was supposed to go under Mauichuck’s reply

by 94neverout on May 9, 2008 8:30 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I have two questions. I don’t know where to post them.

Has anyone ever analyzed CC’s numbers in just the games that are nationally televised and/or hold significant importance? I want to make the case that CC’s youth is still showing, but I don’t know that there is actually a case until I look at the numbers. I don’t know how to find those numbers now, retroactively.

As much as I hate David Wells, it seems to me, that guy still has some value to some team. He has already said he would never pitch in Cleveland, nor would I want him to. However, why wouldn’t a team sign him and trade him for a nice future player? Is he really done? Or, is he such a DB that nobody cares to put up with him? hmmmm… I might have answered my own question there.

by 94neverout on May 9, 2008 8:49 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Meh.

Dellucci’s reaction appeals to me as an Indians fan but at the same time I like this entire aspect of sports, including Justin’s role in it. If we didn’t have Joba, we’d have nobody to hate this week. And when CC gets a big K I don’t mind at all seeing him scream.

It’s just a constant cycle of “attack somebody else’s guy”, “defend you own guy.” It’s boring, and people who come down hard on one side, like Chuck, are crotchety. You want players to flip the ball to the ref? Football’s boring enough. We need Chad Johnson putting on a HOF jacket.

If you’re a defender and you hate it so much, stop him. Same with Joba; anyone with two cents knows DD won the matchup, big time. He can scream all he wants, he got owned.

by afh4 on May 9, 2008 9:11 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs

He can scream all he wants, he got owned.

In your face, tombradylikesdudes.

by NickFantana on May 9, 2008 9:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

And it will happen again to Chamberlain sometime. Get used to it. Borowski did.

by odradek on May 9, 2008 9:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Like I told royalsreview – if you’re gonna be a clown, be a funny clown. I find neither Johnson or Joba amusing – maybe you do. But if you don’t respect your opponents, how do you expect them to respect you?

"the most vehement Yankee-hating guy I know" - Jay

by mauichuck on May 9, 2008 9:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I just think it’s a different standard now than it once was. I doubt very many of the Indians, or anyone inside baseball, harbors “disrespect” for Joba because of what he did. Most of these guys live extremely disparate lives from not only the rest of society but also their teammates; whether that’s emphasized by the language barriers in baseball, the age gaps, the fact that the players are spending their free time running the tiny corporations that are themselves, or the fact that they spend the offseason thousands of miles apart.

That article on Wang in SI a couple of weeks ago said the most any of his teammates knew about him was that he liked watches and cars. And they win a lot of games with him pitching.

To put more succinctly, I don’t think any of the guys in baseball, or very few of them, give a rip about “respecting opponents” unless you’re talking about some kind of extreme show-up. They want to win, so they want guys that are good, and as long as your good nobody’s going to say “He can never be on my team-he once disrespected me.” They’re going to embrace you and watch you help the team. Ray Lewis.

All this man code stuff is, as I said, a little crotchety.

by afh4 on May 9, 2008 9:47 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs

You could leave open the possibility that Dellucci’s comments were meant to be taken at face value. “It’s kind of interesting,” may, in fact, mean “it’s kind of interesting.”

I’m getting weary of this “is what it is” crap, though. I heard a segment about that phrase on NPR after the Clemens vs. Congress thing flared up. A linguist said its primary virtue is that it’s impossible to argue with: “No, it isn’t what it isn’t!” If Dellucci meant “yeah, yeah,” why not say it?

Yeah-Yeah. I’m gonna go watch The Sandlot.

by fleerdon on May 9, 2008 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, I’m not sure Looch is even hard on one side of this issue. I guess I’m more arguing against the whole argument, which is one you can see at least once a week on PTI, Around the Horn, or First and Ten.

Followed directly by ‘he got JACKED UP.’

by afh4 on May 9, 2008 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

‘he got JACKED UP.’

i would genuinely go to jail for assaulting the person who came up with that if i had the chance to meet them.

by Brick. on May 9, 2008 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

That might be Tom Jackson – a John Adams grad.

"the most vehement Yankee-hating guy I know" - Jay

by mauichuck on May 9, 2008 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Please stop watching First and Ten.

I mean it.

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on May 9, 2008 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i love that i don’t know what First and Ten is.

by Brick. on May 9, 2008 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

If you are a fan of all the Cleveland teams/Ohio State, just be happy you don’t watch it. Skip Bayless has an irrational hatred for all things Cleveland/Buckeyes.

Besides, he’s a douche who is a fan of the Cowboys and Bulls (no clue which baseball team he follows). He is the worst guy on TV, hands down.

Luckily that show is on while I am work so I don’t get nauseated by it much.

by talonk on May 9, 2008 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Skip Bayless hurts me deep.

my helmet has, like, no pine tar on it.

by joeee on May 9, 2008 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

and around the horn

by dwight on May 9, 2008 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

For better or worse, ESPN is the soundtrack of my life. It plays while I brush my teeth, it plays while I fall asleep. And I don’t even like ESPN.

by afh4 on May 9, 2008 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i thought it was MTV …

Sizemore-Shapiro 2008. The Official Red Bull of Let's Go Tribe Game Threads.

by Gradyforpresident on May 9, 2008 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

VH1 dude. I’m a VH1 guy. And Bravo.

by afh4 on May 9, 2008 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I’m so glad I don’t have cable. I finally escaped from my former obsessive ESPN watching. I hated every minute of it, but I couldn’t stop.

Disclaimer: this post doesn't mean what you think it means.

by AngG on May 9, 2008 7:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Andrew, seriously, how are you so awesome?

Disclaimer: this post doesn't mean what you think it means.

by AngG on May 9, 2008 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

it’s the sunglasses. take ‘em off and he’s boring as hell. they give him his power.

by Brick. on May 9, 2008 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

See Andrew you just made a strong counter argument to an argument I never made. I word searched my post and nowhere does “man” or “manly” or even “gentleman” show up. It’s not a macho thing at all. It’s about sportsmanship and by extension civility. In fact some of the best examples of how to compete and how to treat your opponent occur in women’s athletics. That’s right, some of the best sportsmen I’ve seen are playing in the WNBA and Women’s College Softball. So don’t confuse the issue.

And to think that this is a recent development related to the current generation is wrong too. I chart the beginning of boorish athletes to Mohamed Ali and Joe Namath – guys who were playing when I was still a competitive athlete. The loud-mouth self agrandizing jock is a product of my generation and merely perfected by yours. To think that this is a recent phenomenon is wrong too.

No the standard hasn’t changed, only the tolerance for boorish behavior’s changed. There’s a big difference.

"the most vehement Yankee-hating guy I know" - Jay

by mauichuck on May 9, 2008 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

When I see terms like “respecting the opposition”, I equate that to this “man code of competition.” Whether or not it’s about being manly or not is, you’re right, not the point. It’s a poor choice of words.

But to me, this issue of “respect” or “sportsmanship”, whether for the game or opponents, is what I can’t jibe with, on a ton of levels. There’s the fact that I think sports is entertainment and these guys make the game more interesting, there’s the fact that I don’t think the players really care, and, ultimately, there’s the fact that I think it’s dull and played.

I see the other side of it, I just get tired of watching the media machine churn this stuff out and fans perpetuate by calling players like Joba impetuous or whatever. For example, last night on BBTN they were covering the Richie Sexson-Rangers dustup and I literally could’ve quoted Eduardo Perez on the issue before he even spoke.

You’re right that it’s not a recent development for players to act like this (Y.A. Tittle once told Chuck Bednarik to S his D I hear) but it is a relatively recent development for this to be covered in the media the way it is.

The generational issue is interesting because I think it colors my opinion, a lot. I grew up worshipping at the altar of Albert Belle, Charles Barkley, and their ilk. They’re my favorite players ever and it’s largely because they threw people through windows not in spite of it. I don’t think a lot of people would admit that but I will. I don’t love that they’re asses but I love watching them annihilate opponents. Of course, I also love Peyton Manning. I don’t know.

However, I think we can probably all agree that Jay, per the usual, has summed up the argument pretty well.

by afh4 on May 9, 2008 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

I agree completely. I loved that Ali and Broadway Joe backed up the trash talk. Barkley is one of a kind, sort of a national treasure of outrageous statements. And this stuff makes everything more fun. Look at the time we are spending now discussing this instead of the same old dry crap.

by elsandito on May 9, 2008 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

What was even better was watching Frazier beat the crap outta Ali in that first fight, after he’d humiliated his one-time friend in public. Less satisfying was watching Namath slide into mediocrity.

"the most vehement Yankee-hating guy I know" - Jay

by mauichuck on May 9, 2008 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

To be fair, the Super Bowl trash talk was about the Jets and not himself winning. The Jets had a fine defense and Joe had a beast running back in Boozer. What I loved was that the media didn’t give NY any shot and Joe laughed it off.

by elsandito on May 9, 2008 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

“And when CC gets a big K I don’t mind at all seeing him scream.” As opposed to holding a three run lead with no one on base. Justin has put in about a quarter season of work and is a product of ESPN. Come back when you have done something litle boy.

Proud supporter of the Cleveland.

by fwembt on May 9, 2008 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Other than blow a save in the most critical appearance of your “career”.

"the most vehement Yankee-hating guy I know" - Jay

by mauichuck on May 9, 2008 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It’s a little weird for New Yorkers to pine after someone so unclutch.

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on May 9, 2008 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Loud noises!

by fleerdon on May 9, 2008 9:37 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

(I love lamp).

Il faut d'abord durer.

by CU Adam on May 9, 2008 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Joba’s reaction was annoying, but it wasn’t Valverd-ian. Now that’s some ridiculous celebrating!

by JonduncO on May 9, 2008 10:03 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I’m half with Andrew here. I’m not a fan of trying to strip the outward emotion out of sports. I like Chad Johnson’s show. I also liked Barry Sanders reactions, and Dellucci’s too- let them be who they are. What bothers me most about the events is that Dellucci probably would have been hammered for celebrating – it’s a strange double standard.

I don’t buy Andrew’s idea that athletes don’t notice and don’t care though. I think plenty have very strong feelings about their coworkers reactions/attitudes. I think there are plenty of guys who care about being shown up. They’re just smart with the media, that’s all. I don’t know, I’m sure there’s a range out there.

The moral of the story is that Dellucci is awesome. I think we should make a collection of all the “TELL ME AGAIN WHY DELUCI IS ON THIS TEAM?!?” comments.

by dgcambridge on May 9, 2008 11:48 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Maybe I more mean that it doesn’t affect team performance in any uniform way. For some teams, a guy pumping his fist too often is going to hurt them because Matt Stairs and Jeff Kent are going to be pissed that the code isn’t being followed. For another, it’s going to help because it reminded J.D. Drew that someone was actually playing baseball, somewhere. I struggle with the assertion that it is a negative thing.

by afh4 on May 9, 2008 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

To add fuel to the fire

by oxforddave on May 9, 2008 12:07 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Now that’s hacktastic reasoning.

The Indians have Chief Wahoo as a logo, therefore no free agent should sign with the Indians.

Sometimes after a home run, a player comes out for a curtain call, therefore what Joba did was OK.

by Ryan on May 9, 2008 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Typical of the hacks who apparently have no editors. I mean, seriously. Does any editor ever ask a writer to, you know, explain causation? Or link? Or relevance?

He’s right that the logo is racist, but that is wholly impertinent.

And regarding curtain calls, many pitchers get similar treatment when they exit a ballgame. A standing crowd, a tip of the cap. There’s not a sane person who would think that equates to showing up the opposition.

What Joba did was not the most egregious, but it doesn’t make it acceptable. Joba’s excuse is, “That’s who I am.” Okay, so every 8th-inning K to end an inning gets that absurd reaction—but we should know that it’s okay, that’s just Joba.

Well, how would Joba like every hitter who gets a basehit to hold their arms to the heaven, screaming, “HOOOOOO!” on the way to first base? I think we’d see a fastball to the back. Maybe actual tears. I mean, the Yankees are still broken up about the midges.

by tabler84 on May 9, 2008 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Mattingly didn’t believe in curtain calls. I already had my moment rounding the bases, he said. i don’t want to show up the pitcher.

by odradek on May 10, 2008 3:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

This is embarrassing.

Il faut d'abord durer.

by CU Adam on May 9, 2008 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Around here, homers by the home team generally lead to a bow at the top of the dugout, while the victimized pitcher is still very much on the mound.

Exactly. Around here, being New York. If curtain calls were a stat, they’d lead the majors and it wouldn’t be close. They are so enamored with themselves.

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on May 9, 2008 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Just one more reason why everybody else hates New York teams. Their fans have no perspective of life outside the bubble.

Free Andy Marte!

Pronk Needs You

by woodsmeister on May 9, 2008 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It’s ‘95 and we’re driving east from Dallas to Shreveport with a guy from Philly and one from NYNY. We got a little lost and I think we were tooling around Tyler. The guy from NY is laughing as he’s looking around at the open spaces, fences and cattle. I’m looking at him like he’s lost it and he tells me all this open prairie is hilarious. We are talking about someone who used to work on Wall St.

by elsandito on May 9, 2008 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I demand my amusement.

Seriously?

by macasson on May 9, 2008 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

And this guy is paid to write that. Unbelievable.

by supermarioelia on May 9, 2008 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

the guy does have a killer, ‘70s style, pedophile moustache, though…..

by APV on May 9, 2008 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

And tell me, what’s wrong with that?

"the most vehement Yankee-hating guy I know" - Jay

by mauichuck on May 9, 2008 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

oh, that’s fantastic

by Brick. on May 9, 2008 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

wow I just read that. what a total dbag.

Sizemore-Shapiro 2008. The Official Red Bull of Let's Go Tribe Game Threads.

by Gradyforpresident on May 9, 2008 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Probably the only appropriate response to such a douchebaggy article is to vote in their poll again and again and again until Hate It wins.

by NickFantana on May 9, 2008 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

don’t know what happened to this the first time I posted it, but I’ll try again…

We have to do something about these results:

The Disabled List just called ... it was trying to unload Joe Borowski. I offered a bagel but balked at giving up a ham sandwich. It wanted to keep Westbrook.

by westbrook on May 9, 2008 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I like how they split the anti-vote there. Sneaky

Disclaimer: this post doesn't mean what you think it means.

by AngG on May 9, 2008 7:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

A muscular-necked, flame-throwing, emotional-by-nature fiery competitor. Why do we even bother coming to bat? We should just watch his warm-up pitches with disinterested shame and then take the field again.

by fleerdon on May 9, 2008 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

This is the most tedious, boring, and pointless thing in all of sports – this kind of stuff.

So what did I do? I read the entire thread, that’s what.

by Voltaire on May 9, 2008 12:25 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Well V then you just don’t get it. Sports almost by definition are pointless. Don’t you get the zen of it?

"the most vehement Yankee-hating guy I know" - Jay

by mauichuck on May 9, 2008 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wasn’t Joba seen crying in the dugout after giving up the home run to Looch?

serious mistake = crying
routine success = showing up the opposition

These two events point to an athelete who believes his own hype and is shocked when reality comes barging in…or flies over the fence.

by Seattle Tribe Fan on May 9, 2008 12:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I don’t know where to put this but I figure enough people are reading this. Where did the division standings and team record go? Gone?

by Voltaire on May 9, 2008 12:40 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I’d been wondering the same thing . . . as well as the day’s game, pitching match-up, weather, etc. Had been b/n the Fanposts and Fanshots, no?

by macasson on May 9, 2008 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

huh, i thought it was just me.

by Brick. on May 9, 2008 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I put back the standings and “current series” sections. Do we really need team record?

by Jay on May 9, 2008 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

by Brick. on May 9, 2008 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

perfect. thanks.

by macasson on May 9, 2008 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Awesome. Thanks.

by Voltaire on May 9, 2008 10:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don’t know where to put this but I figure enough people are reading this. Where did the division standings and team record go? Gone?

by Voltaire on May 9, 2008 12:41 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Another non-sequitor type question; is anyone else not able to “Z” to new comments in Fanshots unless they’re posted while you have the thread open? This just started for me today.

Il faut d'abord durer.

by CU Adam on May 9, 2008 12:53 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

No, they still work as advertised for me.

by Voltaire on May 9, 2008 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

NEW GAME THREAD

by emil minty on May 9, 2008 3:42 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

In 1919, at the age of 31, Walter Johnson pitched 290.1 innings without giving up a home run. Different era, and all. But even the Big Train gave up 97 home runs over the course of his 21-year career. So who is Junior Chamberlain to get bent out of shape for giving up a homer?

by odradek on May 10, 2008 3:19 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Big Train was The Man – they’ll never be another one like him.

"the most vehement Yankee-hating guy I know" - Jay

by mauichuck on May 10, 2008 8:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I deleted the whole 60 Minutes conversation. I’m fine with a bit of off-topic stuff, but it was getting too political.

by Ryan on May 10, 2008 1:31 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

No problem—sorry about that. I tried to clarify that my comments were solely focused on her reporting skills, but I suppose politics is an inevitable byproduct.

by tabler84 on May 11, 2008 9:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs