Mariners fire Bavasi; 29 GMs weep
It was good while it lasted, trade-wise.
about 1 year ago
Fiddlesticks
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They didn’t want him to have the money? Or they fined him so much he lost his job?
I kid, I kid.
by Voltaire on Jun 16, 2008 3:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Idiotic typo fixed.
"A good body with a dull brain is as cheap as life itself."
by Fiddlesticks on Jun 16, 2008 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is crazy. He made some excellent moves. He wasn’t in over his head at all.
by KevinV on Jun 16, 2008 3:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
You are deeply confused.
He made a few nice moves, and a half-dozen outright disasters.
by Jay on Jun 16, 2008 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
“He wasn’t in over his head at all”.
This should have told you he was being sarcastic.
by Toxicadam on Jun 16, 2008 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
While my friends in the Pacific Northwest rejoice, I sit in my dark corner weeping. Oh, Bavasi. Our time together was so magical.
Hard truth: Your eyes lie.
by AngG on Jun 16, 2008 3:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
If I recall correctly we traded him both Broussard and Perez?
by mjschaefer on Jun 16, 2008 3:47 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I was actually thinking about doing a fanpost of these trades. They have to rank up there among the best for Shapiro. Even if Asdrubal falls from the face of the earth and Choo only turns out ot be a marginal player … it’s still a great deal for Shapiro. Anything from here on out is gravy.
by Toxicadam on Jun 16, 2008 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Perez for Asdrubal might be the best trade Shapiro has ever made, including the Colon deal.
It was literally a case where we got something for nothing. In Seattle, Perez had a total of 102 PA with a line of .195/.304/.241 as a DH.
At best, we gave up nothing and got a star defensive SS in return. At worst, we gave up nothing and recieved an organizational player in return.
by Cap'n Snegiryov on Jun 16, 2008 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I still can’t believe that trade actually happened.
Hard truth: Your eyes lie.
by AngG on Jun 16, 2008 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh, I know.
Bavasi was something else. He really had a unique concept of “value”. That’s what I’ll miss the most about him.
by Cap'n Snegiryov on Jun 16, 2008 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can’t agree with the Colon deal – as my brother pointed out, it is likely that Grady, Lee, and Phillips are all All-Stars this year. Whoops.
by joeee on Jun 17, 2008 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
As of 2006, I’d say the Hafner deal was better. At least we gave up talent to the Expos.
Now with Lee and Hafner trading places on the awesome scale I’d say differently.
Steel Nick
by nickjs21 on Jun 17, 2008 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that was the name of my band in college.
by Brick. on Jun 17, 2008 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The guy who just corrected his own grammar with the word “superfluous” thinks you’re a nerd.
Steel Nick
by nickjs21 on Jun 17, 2008 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think you need the comma! You could even argue for additional commas after Now and scale in the second sentence. Nerds are we all.
by peter m on Jun 17, 2008 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am also pro-comma. Not one after Now, but after scale could go either way, and the comma that’s currently in that sentence seems fine to me. But perhaps we’re holding ourselves to AP style now, and I never could get the hang of the AP’s aversion to commas.
Hard truth: Your eyes lie.
by AngG on Jun 17, 2008 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I used to lean pro-comma. I now lean anti-comma. I go case-by-case.
by Jay on Jun 17, 2008 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am less pro-comma than I once was.
Hard truth: Your eyes lie.
by AngG on Jun 17, 2008 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My experience is that most writers use commas where they ought not to, and fail to use them where they should. But I’ve also found that, when I’m having that debate with myself, the sentence is usually too long.
Let’s go, Tribe.
by fleerdon on Jun 17, 2008 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Depends who you consider to be a writer, I guess.
by Jay on Jun 17, 2008 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
(And God forbid any of our real professional writer readers should weigh in on this. Cowards. I know you’re reading this.)
by Jay on Jun 17, 2008 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
what do you consider to be a professional writer?
by Gradyforpresident on Jun 17, 2008 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m a poet; does that count? (It never seems to. sniffle)
by Julie on Jun 17, 2008 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Professional’s do what they do for money. Amateurs do not. Simple, no?
"the most vehement Yankee-hating guy I know" - Jay
by mauichuck on Jun 17, 2008 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i used to be a paid writer. what does that make me now?
by Gradyforpresident on Jun 17, 2008 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
A washed up writer.
"the most vehement Yankee-hating guy I know" - Jay
by mauichuck on Jun 17, 2008 8:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Count me as a washed up writer as well.
Proud supporter of the Cleveland.
by fwembt on Jun 18, 2008 9:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
See Fitzgerald, F. Scott or Salinger, J.D.
"the most vehement Yankee-hating guy I know" - Jay
by mauichuck on Jun 18, 2008 7:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
if i had written what was widely acclaimed as one of the greatest pieces of american literature ever, i could stand to be washed up at my young age.
by Gradyforpresident on Jun 18, 2008 8:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is wildly unfair to both of these writers.
by afh4 on Jun 19, 2008 12:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And being wildly unfair is something new to this site?
"the most vehement Yankee-hating guy I know" - Jay
by mauichuck on Jun 19, 2008 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Isn’t spellcheck a wonderful device? I should use it more often myslef.
"the most vehement Yankee-hating guy I know" - Jay
by mauichuck on Jun 19, 2008 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I get money at times, but I have another job.
So, no.
by Julie on Jun 17, 2008 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah. I’ve been paid for my writing before, but not in the sense of not having a day job. (And, if I’m being honest, I don’t think I’d want writing to be my day job anyway.)
Hard truth: Your eyes lie.
by AngG on Jun 17, 2008 7:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Figuring out that sentences shouldn’t be 4 lines long really helped cure me of my commaphilia.
Hard truth: Your eyes lie.
by AngG on Jun 17, 2008 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What is your opinion on the semicolon? I use it a lot, but I’m not sure that I should.
by jhon on Jun 17, 2008 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i used to be all about the semi-colon.
by Gradyforpresident on Jun 17, 2008 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you use it when joining two independent clauses; it is easy to screw up.
by joeee on Jun 17, 2008 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you’re using one more than once a page, you’re usually using too many semi-colons.
Hard truth: Your eyes lie.
by AngG on Jun 17, 2008 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i will disagree vehemently with this common sense. just because it’s usually misused doesn’t mean using it is wrong. also see above about how i used to love semi-colons.
by Gradyforpresident on Jun 17, 2008 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We could check Elements of Style or something, but you shouldn’t overuse special punctuation. The goal is to be clear, not distracting as hell.
by joeee on Jun 17, 2008 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Personally, I try to avoid using too many semicolons not because of the punctuation itself, but to keep myself from being too repetitive with my sentence structure.
Hard truth: Your eyes lie.
by AngG on Jun 17, 2008 7:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that’s the same reason i rarely use capital letters.
by Brick. on Jun 17, 2008 7:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There is something slightly pompous about the semi-colon.
by Jay on Jun 18, 2008 12:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Really? I find the semi-colon to be more of the white trash cousin of the colon.
Proud supporter of the Cleveland.
by fwembt on Jun 18, 2008 9:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Colon had to go to semi-colon’s house for Christmas this year. It was sick. The house smelled like pee and cigarettes, semi-colon’s girlfriend’s baby wouldn’t stop crying, and the meatballs and beef tips made Colon nauseated.
by joeee on Jun 18, 2008 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
mmm tips.
semi-colon has a sweet ATV though
by jhon on Jun 18, 2008 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
See Bartolo shouldda gone to Momma’s instead.
"the most vehement Yankee-hating guy I know" - Jay
by mauichuck on Jun 18, 2008 7:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I heard that semi-colon’s girlfriend’s baby isn’t even semi-colon’s.
Proud supporter of the Cleveland.
by fwembt on Jun 19, 2008 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Totally unsuplerfluwhatever. Introductory dependent clause, right? You’d also be in the clear with commas after “Now” and “scale.”
had about six consecutive typos; gave up
by fleerdon on Jun 17, 2008 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Okay! Everybody be careful with asterisks!
Man, can’t the SBN people just trust us to learn the three HTML tags we need to post here? Sheesh.
by fleerdon on Jun 17, 2008 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
People on the Internet never use asterisks for anything other than indicating things are bold, right?
Hard truth: Your eyes lie.
by AngG on Jun 17, 2008 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Clearly you haven’t read your Posnanski.
"the most vehement Yankee-hating guy I know" - Jay
by mauichuck on Jun 17, 2008 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow, I can’t, believe we; had so much conver!sation about this…..
Steel Nick
by nickjs21 on Jun 17, 2008 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don’t forget the Gregorio Rosario fleecing
by Roger Dorn on Jun 16, 2008 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is the week! Time to live up to the hype!
by dgcambridge on Jun 16, 2008 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
DG – email me about when/where to meet up tomorrow. I posted my email in the Coors thread, but it’s off the front page now.
ap.steigerwald (at) gmail (dot) com
Il faut d'abord durer.
by CU Adam on Jun 16, 2008 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I will. No response from kova or DTF that I saw. She may still be upset about fight over Garko.
by dgcambridge on Jun 16, 2008 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And the Chris Antonetti calls have already commenced.
by xrickx on Jun 16, 2008 5:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I wonder if we could trade Antonetti for some offense. It’d probably be hard to get equal value back though.
by Pronk33 on Jun 16, 2008 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think I would consider any player on their roster an upgrade on offense besides Ichiro. I’m doubting that Bavasi has left much in their system either. I’d take J.J. Putz and Felix Hernadez for Antonetti though… maybe.
by Ryan Kelsey on Jun 16, 2008 9:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ha, I was going to type Ichiro in there. I figured what’s the point if he’s just going to go on the DL from punching himself in the face before every home series.
by Pronk33 on Jun 16, 2008 9:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought I was the only one who did that.
by Julie on Jun 17, 2008 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
USSMariner already has a couple of posts related to courting Antonetti
by APV on Jun 17, 2008 8:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They make a good case. I’m tempted to send a resume.
Steel Nick
by nickjs21 on Jun 17, 2008 9:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No offense to the Mariners, but if Antonetti turned down the Cardinals, how likely do we think it is that he would go to Seattle? Obviously a bigger offer would do the trick, but it seems like the Tribe has a succession plan in place, and I don’t think Antonetti will want to leave his precious DiamondView behind.
by Roger Dorn on Jun 17, 2008 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What Roger said. Maybe cash will make a difference, but Seattle is a much worse situation than St. Louis was. Unless Antonetti wants to a situation where he has to rebuild an organization from the ground up.
by Ryan on Jun 17, 2008 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right, and the fall-out from the Cards offer seems to be the succession plan we’ve all heard rumours about.
by Voltaire on Jun 17, 2008 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I enjoy the thought that Kenny Williams is capable of fleecing Bavasi.
by Voltaire on Jun 16, 2008 9:12 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Weird timing—but I guess they had to let him follow through the draft, since no successor could have been prepared for it.
Let the firesale commence.
by jhon on Jun 16, 2008 10:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Huh? I doubt there are many — if any — GM’s who are so heavily involved in the draft that it couldn’t get done essentially the same without him.
by Jay on Jun 16, 2008 10:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have no idea how involved GM’s are in the draft (other than what I read in Moneyball), but certainly getting swept at home by the Nationals over the weekend made it as good of a time as any to (attempt to) stop the bleeding.
MLB2PDX!!! (someday...)
by The Cactus Leaguer on Jun 16, 2008 11:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, it’s not like firing the manager, when the fans immediately expect turnaround. Bavasi’s going to be on the hook with fans for this whole season. If you want a new GM, may as well give him a chance to work with the trade deadline and a full off-season.
by fleerdon on Jun 17, 2008 12:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They may not hire a new permanent GM until the offseason, but it seems pretty clear they wanted someone else — even an interim guy — to run their fire sale.
by Jay on Jun 17, 2008 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And understandably so- it’s going to be tough to trade Bedard at 70 cents on the dollar a few months after you traded for him at 120 cents on the dollar, even with a new GM.
by vegaswatch on Jun 17, 2008 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
a problem many many people are increasingly familiar with these days
by APV on Jun 17, 2008 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not if they get the right guy. The right guy says, sunk cost—we move on.
by Jay on Jun 17, 2008 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Totally unrelated.
3 run HR by Bowker off Rodney. Detroit down 6-4 suddenly.
by dgcambridge on Jun 17, 2008 12:32 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Tigers lose, Indians have 1 game lead over them.
Through 1st 2 interleague series, Indians and Mariners are only AL teams with losing IL records. Time to get busy against the Rockies and Giants.
by palcal on Jun 17, 2008 2:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kind of a weird comment here from the Seattle Times:
The biggest test, however, of whether the Lincoln Manifesto is just empty platitudes, or a fundamental change in the Mariners’ philosophy, will come from the hiring of Bavasi’s replacement.The man in charge of the search, team president Chuck Armstrong, is steeped in the old school, but that doesn’t mean he can’t adapt to 21st-century sensibilities …
“In my own mind, I’ve used statistical analysis the whole time I’ve been in the game,” he said. “I will also say Bill Bavasi, among the various GMs I’ve had here, has used it the most of anybody.”
Hmm. If Bavasi used statistical analysis more than any other GM the Mariners have had, that means either
A) No other Mariner GM has ever made a decision while looking at a number.
B) Non-stat savvy FO types are starting to become aware that they need to embrace statistical analysis, but are doing so in the wrong way. It doesn’t do a lick of good to know what a player’s RZR or OPS+ is if you can’t use that information in proper context. This is something I think Chuck rallied around for a while.
One more small tidbit from the article:
The Mariners, rightly or wrongly, are regarded as a team that is antithetical to the “Moneyball” philosophy, to use the common term for a sabermetric-friendly, statistically oriented method of analyzing player acquisitions.
This is the deadest of dead horses, but “Moneyball philosophy” does not mean sigining fat players who walk. It means exploiting market inefficiencies, whatever those inefficiencies may be. I just hate when “Moneyball” is used as a synonym for sabermetrics.
Steel Nick
by nickjs21 on Jun 18, 2008 7:15 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
It doesn’t seem to me that the bit you quoted really is mis-characterizing Moneyball as badly as you say.
by Jay on Jun 19, 2008 12:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And the other shoe has dropped. McClaren fired per ESPN.
by peter m on Jun 19, 2008 1:19 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
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