Indians Making One Last Run at Signing CC

According to an unnamed major league exec, the Indians are making a last ditch effort to sign CC before trading him.

This comes from the Yankees beat writer for the Newark Star Ledger. While he won't name his source, you can assume it is someone in the Yankees organization who we can expect would have been interested in CC, so that puts this just a hair above useless speculation.

5 months ago Harry Doyle Comment 57 comments 0 recs |

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As a matter of due diligence, it makes sense for the Indians to put an offer on the table before they
trade him. In the unlikely event, that CC would blink at the prospect of being traded, the Indians would
sign CC to a contract that was more attractive to them that the return in a trade.

by palcal on Jun 26, 2008 8:45 PM EDT 0 recs

Perhaps, or it’s just wave being dispatched by the Indians’ front office to create the illusion that they want to keep him, thus telling suitors to step up or forget it. If resigned, C.C. obviously slots in up front. I imagine Cleveland would sign a free agent starter if C.C. departs.

But:
1)Lee’s signed for 2009 for $5.75M (with a club option for 2010).
2) Laffey will be back.
3) Carmona as well.
4)Sowers can handle the fifth spot.
5) Huff and Miller will be 6th and 7th. Westbrook will potentially be an option late in the season, but that’s not safe to depend on.

Since Lee has rebounded and will be part of the rotation next season, the Indians don’t have to spend to replace Paul Byrd. If Westbrook’s $11M will be covered, at least in part, by insurance, I can see the Indians having the money, as they’ve said all along, to sign C.C. And with Jake Westbrook out, I think they have even more incentive.

by xrickx on Jun 26, 2008 8:54 PM EDT 0 recs

C.C. obviously slots in up front

I’m sorry, but no he doesn’t. Lee’s at least as good as CC.

"the most vehement Yankee-hating guy I know" - Jay

by mauichuck on Jun 27, 2008 6:52 AM EDT up 0 recs

I fail to see how.

by mjschaefer on Jun 27, 2008 8:24 AM EDT up 0 recs

Then you haven’t been watching these two guys pitch. CC’s got better stuff – but just by a hair. Lee knows how to pitch better than CC.

"the most vehement Yankee-hating guy I know" - Jay

by mauichuck on Jun 27, 2008 11:05 AM EDT up 0 recs

...Lee knows how to pitch better than CC [now]

by Brick. on Jun 27, 2008 11:24 AM EDT up 0 recs

what are you talking about. CC has been waaay better over the last 5 years, over the last 3 years, over the last 2 years, over the last 1.5 years. CC has been better over the last month. (37Ks in 38 Innings, 2.84 ERA and 1.00 WHIP vs. 36 Ks in 41 Innings, 3.82 ERA and 1.33 WHIP). CC is the better pitcher now, over the short term and over the long term. Objectively and subjectively. The only thing Cliff has over CC is a outrageous start to the season.

by DaytonDogg on Jun 27, 2008 1:00 PM EDT up 0 recs

What I’m talking about is the future. I think that Lee’s future is at least as bright – pitching wise – as CCs. We’ll talk in a year or two.

"the most vehement Yankee-hating guy I know" - Jay

by mauichuck on Jun 27, 2008 1:18 PM EDT up 0 recs

lee is nearly 2 full years older than CC. so your assumption here is pretty ridiculous, considering CC has been better and younger this whole time.

by Gradyforpresident on Jun 27, 2008 1:41 PM EDT up 0 recs

And almost 120 lbs. lighter. Like I said, we’ll talk in a coupla years.

"the most vehement Yankee-hating guy I know" - Jay

by mauichuck on Jun 27, 2008 2:23 PM EDT up 0 recs

Best reasoning ever.

Sabathia is not a health risk. I don’t know how many times I have to say that.

I like Lee a lot, but he will never be the front line starter that Sabathia is…

by mjschaefer on Jun 27, 2008 4:00 PM EDT up 0 recs

except that lee kind of is the front line starter sabathia is this year. so it’s not impossible – but he’d have to maintain this for a few years to be called a viable ace.

by Brick. on Jun 27, 2008 4:05 PM EDT up 0 recs

That was kind of my point. I think Lee is good. I think Sabathia is great.

by mjschaefer on Jun 27, 2008 5:44 PM EDT up 0 recs

agree. just wouldn’t use the word never. last year i would have. but man, it really seems like he’s got it in him.

by Brick. on Jun 27, 2008 6:05 PM EDT up 0 recs

You have no expert knowledge on whether CC is a health risk. That extra weight takes a toll on a pitcher’s lower body and back. Colon was ok until, suddenly, he had problems.

by elsandito on Jun 27, 2008 4:46 PM EDT up 0 recs

Yeah because a torn rotator cuff only happens to fat people?

by mjschaefer on Jun 27, 2008 5:44 PM EDT up 0 recs

Plenty of long distance runners die of heart attacks. How does this prove you have expert knowledge of CC’s health?

by elsandito on Jun 27, 2008 5:53 PM EDT up 0 recs

How does it prove that you do?

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on Jun 27, 2008 7:39 PM EDT up 0 recs

It doesn’t, I’m not the one here guaranteeing that CC is not a health risk if you read above.

by elsandito on Jun 27, 2008 8:36 PM EDT up 0 recs

I apologize for guaranteeing that a pitcher who has never made less than 28 starts, had no problems now for 7 years, should all the sudden wake up and have leg problems…

Yes, it is a crapshoot, yes I’m not an expert, yes this is stupidity. I personally think that Sabathia is 100% dedicated to his own health, even if it doesn’t look like he is with the extra weight. I would be shocked if his weight is the source of problems down the road.

All anyone ever did was blame his weight, when he wasn’t succeeding. Amazing how much shit a big guy takes…

by mjschaefer on Jun 27, 2008 9:18 PM EDT up 0 recs

No, but knee injuries happen a lot more frequently to 250lb+ males than to 180 males. I’ll see if I can scare up some data for you.

"the most vehement Yankee-hating guy I know" - Jay

by mauichuck on Jun 27, 2008 6:09 PM EDT up 0 recs

Weight alone is not much of a factor to correlate.

by Jay on Jun 27, 2008 8:15 PM EDT up 0 recs

Does CC have a greater risk of being hit than other starters? It seems like he gets drilled every start. Maybe this is because of his size, or the way he falls off the mound, or his location encouraging hits up the middle. That’s not conducive to health & prosperity.

by odradek on Jun 27, 2008 6:19 PM EDT up 0 recs

Very interesting thought. Thankfully no major problems.

by mjschaefer on Jun 27, 2008 9:20 PM EDT up 0 recs

Step away from the kool aid.

by Voltaire on Jun 27, 2008 3:22 PM EDT up 0 recs

Cleveland would sign a free agent starter if C.C. departs.

Since it came up, the list of 2009 FA pitchers is here. There doesn’t seem to be much there once you get past C.C., Ben Sheets, and second tier guys like Pettitte, Mussina, and Lowe.

by Pronk33 on Jun 27, 2008 11:07 AM EDT up 0 recs

I agree. They might renew Byrd, although he makes me increasingly nervious. Likely rotation next year, if CC goes, is Lee, Fausto, Laffey, Sowers and ? (assuming Westbrook won’t be able to pitch until later in the year, at the earliest). The identity of ? isn’t obvious - could be Byrd, could be Huff (pretty inexperienced, though). Who knows - could be one of the retreads in Buffalo (Halama, Reichart,etc. – I’m not serious about this, but you never know). I don’t think it’ll be Adam Miller, unless that surgeon was really special.

by peter m on Jun 27, 2008 11:17 AM EDT up 0 recs

Re: Miller

Has there been recent news on this? I haven’t read anything stating that he wouldn’t be ready for spring training.

You know Selig? Ombudsman.

by rolub on Jun 27, 2008 11:23 AM EDT up 0 recs

Me neither. But, I’m assuming that, if he’s ready, they’ll start him at AAA to see if his finger holds up, rather than putting him into the major league rotation right away.

by peter m on Jun 27, 2008 11:28 AM EDT up 0 recs

Recently read, but don’t remember where, that they expect him to throw late this year.

by odradek on Jun 27, 2008 1:10 PM EDT up 0 recs

I don’t see it being Byrd. Surely the FO sees the writing on the wall. Huff is certainly looking like he will be good enough, but with the Miller question marks, we would certainly need more depth. So we could see a mid-level FA, absolutely. But if you’re going to spend the money, wouldn’t you rather spend it on a hitter?

by dgcambridge on Jun 27, 2008 1:27 PM EDT up 0 recs

it’s probably going to be someone like freddy garcia.

by Brick. on Jun 27, 2008 1:51 PM EDT up 0 recs

This “leak” is designed to become the buzz around Indian fandom circles. Many fans need to be appeased for the failure to retain CC. So, in an effort to appear willing to outbid NY for CC’s services, the FO puts one last offer on the table. This type of last ditch offer playlet has been used before as other high priced FAs left Cleveland. The FO needs to be able to posture to the fans “hey, we did everything we were in a position to do given our ability financially to do it”. Shapiro already knows he’s only setting the bar for NY. The interesting thing about this leak of an offer is that it comes before the trade deadline. CC’s failure to take the offer opens the door for a trade.

by elsandito on Jun 26, 2008 9:57 PM EDT 0 recs

As a cynic, I think that’s overly cynical. I’m sure there’s some cover-your-ass posturing here, but it’s also prudent to make another serious effort to sign CC. The Indians sweeten their offer and maybe he reconsiders his position.

by odradek on Jun 26, 2008 10:29 PM EDT up 0 recs

Let me put it lightly.— the Indians front office could give a flying [insert other word here] what you, me, or any other fan thinks about their effort to resign C.C. If they think it’s the right thing to do, they’ll meet his asking price. Manny Ramirez turned down a 5 year, $100M offer, then an $8 year/$160M offer that included some deferred cash that Moorad, Manny’s agent, was not fond of. That’s not posturing.

by xrickx on Jun 26, 2008 10:33 PM EDT up 1 recs

Signing CC is not a failure but any means. Signing any player – any player – to the kind of long-term uber-high dollar contract that CC will demand is a bad, bad idea for a team with Cleveland’s limited resources. The best strategy is to let him go. We’ll find a replacement, if we haven’t all ready with Lee.

"the most vehement Yankee-hating guy I know" - Jay

by mauichuck on Jun 27, 2008 6:56 AM EDT up 0 recs

Shouldda said “not signing CC”. It’s early.

"the most vehement Yankee-hating guy I know" - Jay

by mauichuck on Jun 27, 2008 6:58 AM EDT up 0 recs

Hell I’m just jazzed up to see who we get

by joeee on Jun 27, 2008 8:04 AM EDT up 0 recs

As someone mentioned in another thread. This is exactly what Oakland has done (with the exception of Chavez) and it seems to be working out pretty good for them.

by hans on Jun 27, 2008 9:45 AM EDT up 0 recs

Totally agree.

What was the last high-dollar, long-term pitching contract to come even remotely close to working out? Derek Lowe? Mike Mussina? I can’t think of anyone else…

by Peter Bendix on Jun 27, 2008 10:03 AM EDT up 0 recs

Randy Johnson’s first deal with the D’backs, Maddux’s last deal with the Braves, Pedro’s deal with Boston.

Those are obviously exceptions to the rule, however. Maybe the rule should state, you should only sign a pitcher to a mega-deal if you really believe he’s going to the Hall of Fame, because otherwise, it ain’t going to work out.

by Jay on Jun 27, 2008 1:31 PM EDT up 0 recs

Cool. Now we can start arguing about whether CC’s going to the HOF!

by peter m on Jun 27, 2008 2:04 PM EDT up 0 recs

You’re right about Maddux and Pedro; Johnson’s deal was for “only” four years, which I think the Indians would be willing to agree to with CC.

I’m hoping we offer him 3 years and $80 mil or something…

by Peter Bendix on Jun 27, 2008 2:50 PM EDT up 0 recs

I’m hoping we offer him oogatz.

"the most vehement Yankee-hating guy I know" - Jay

by mauichuck on Jun 27, 2008 2:56 PM EDT up 0 recs

Rational people do not walk away from large sums of money.

by elsandito on Jun 26, 2008 11:24 PM EDT 0 recs

But when you’ve already made $40M by your 28th birthday, you begin rationalizing in a new light.

by xrickx on Jun 26, 2008 11:38 PM EDT up 0 recs

For your sake, I hope you speak from experience.

by elsandito on Jun 27, 2008 8:23 AM EDT up 0 recs

I think rational people evaluate their risks and options.

by dgcambridge on Jun 27, 2008 1:24 PM EDT up 0 recs

C.C. is gone.

And anyway, we already agreed to table all discussion of his contract until after the season.

Discipline, people, discipline!

by Jay on Jun 27, 2008 1:34 PM EDT 0 recs

Does that still apply if the Indians make him a real offer and he either really declines it or really accepts it?

by peter m on Jun 27, 2008 2:05 PM EDT up 0 recs

an unnamed source things it shouldn’t.

by Brick. on Jun 27, 2008 2:12 PM EDT up 0 recs

How about this: We assume he’ll reject any offer.

The moment that assumption fails, then we can talk about it.

by Jay on Jun 27, 2008 3:36 PM EDT up 0 recs

MLBTR DID NOTHING WRONG

by Brick. on Jun 27, 2008 3:50 PM EDT up 0 recs

I certainly favor a moratorium on speculatling about what CC is thinking about doing. The Indians may be forcing him to make a more explicit statement (at least to them) at this point—I certainly hope that’s what they’re doing. If he “comes clean,” there won’t be a lot to say (good riddance to CC or that was a great/awful idea to give him truckloads of money).

by peter m on Jun 28, 2008 11:18 AM EDT up 0 recs