Clarification on potential compensatory picks for C.C.

by millionairesrow on Jun 5, 2008 1:15 PM EDT

I was reading Jayson Stark's latest on ESPN.com today, and I there was a statement I was hoping some LGTers could help me out with. In the article, Stark quotes a MLB executive:

"Meanwhile, an executive from another club says Cleveland "would have to do better than two first-round draft picks" to justify trading Sabathia. "

and proceeds to run down what the Indians could potentially receive back in an in-season deal for C.C. I've seen this argument used in the past when discussing a C.C. trade, that whatever we would receive would have to be better than "two first-round" picks. First, is this reference to a true first-round pick, and a sandwich pick? Second, is it possible (probable?), that our own FA signings this next offseason would negate any picks we would receive from losing C.C.? It seems to me that saying we would receive two first-round picks is a bit misleading (at best) when discussing any compensation we could receive for C.C. Am I wrong in thinking that our signing of two upper tier FAs this offseason would leave us with nothing in return for C.C.?

Full text of article:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&page=rumblings&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab3pos1

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I don’t think you would have to worry about Shapiro getting two “upper-tier” FA’s.

by Toxicadam on Jun 5, 2008 1:50 PM EDT reply actions

bingo

by hans on Jun 5, 2008 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions

This is really the crux of my question. If I remember correctly, (arguably) mediocre players (like Dellucci, Lofton) are sometimes rated at the higest FA level by MLB. So if we signed a Dellucci-esque OF/3B and a 4th or 5th starter (and nothing else happened in FA, bear with me) and lost C.C., could we be looking a wash, and actually receive no compensatory picks?

by millionairesrow on Jun 5, 2008 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions

there’s no washing. if you sign a guy, you can loose picks. if you loose a guy to FA, you can gain picks. both can happen at the same time, but one never cancels out the other. they’re handled separately.

by Brick. on Jun 5, 2008 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions

the compensation depends on the team that would sign him. If it’s one of the top i think 15 picks, i beleive those picks are protected and i think we then would get two sandwich picks as opposed to one sandwich and the signing team’s pick. if we sign FA’s our picks are subject to the same rules – and slotted based on when our picks were – not on a one for one basis where they ‘cancel each other out.’

by Brick. on Jun 5, 2008 1:58 PM EDT reply actions

the replacement for a top 15 protected pick is the teams second rounder, not another sw pick.

by dgcambridge on Jun 5, 2008 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions

wow, even worse than i remembered. thanks.

by Brick. on Jun 5, 2008 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions

The likeliest result would be that we get picks around #32 and #65. It could be better, but it’s more likely to be worse than better.

The value of these picks is highly overrated. You wouldn’t trade those picks for Wes Hodges and Jordan Brown, and neither of those guys are considered elite prospects. Most any trade that conceivably would get made would yield far more than the projected average value of the draft picks.

by Jay on Jun 5, 2008 3:14 PM EDT reply actions

Meant to add, we got the best compensation slots ever for Thome — Brad Snyder (#17) and Adam Miller (#31). It’s now six years after we might have traded Thome in his walk year, you tell me how valuable those two picks have been for the club over those six years. Snyder has almost no value, and if we ever get a return on Miller, it will come some 8-10 years after the trade we couldn’t make. That’s “compensation.”

by Jay on Jun 5, 2008 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions

boy we should have traded him

by Gradyforpresident on Jun 5, 2008 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions

Why would we trade him? He’s an Indian for life.

by dgcambridge on Jun 5, 2008 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions

He had a no-trade clause, so it really wasn’t up to us. I just pointed it out to give the visceral example, this is how picks like that can turn out, and this is how long it takes to reap the rewards if/when they ever come.

by Jay on Jun 6, 2008 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions

What troubles me is that Stark is one of the more prominent baseball names in the media and yet clearly has no idea what he is talking about here.

by Roger Dorn on Jun 5, 2008 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions

have you heard most of the other prominent baseball guys? The fact that he is knows that teams losing players to free agency can receive compensation picks puts him light years ahead in baseball knowledge than most of the prominent baseball guys

by hans on Jun 5, 2008 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions

this is surprising?

by Gradyforpresident on Jun 5, 2008 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions

No, not at all. It feels personal though because we have watched so many of our favorite players leave.

by Roger Dorn on Jun 5, 2008 7:36 PM EDT up reply actions

These guys have a job to do, and knowing what they’re talking about is not necessarily a big part of it.

I don’t bitch about it as much as some people, because it’s just way beyond bitching about.

by Jay on Jun 6, 2008 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions

I’m in on the idea that the value of these picks is overrated, but it can be done to a team’s benefit with some good drafting. I realize that this is the exception and not the rule, but the Red Sox 2005 draft was full of compensation picks for FA lost after the 2004 season.

While I’m loathe to recognize the Red Sox for anything positive, here’s how they fared:
Jacoby Ellsbury (23) & Jed Lowrie (45) in the Orlando Cabrera compensation picks
Clay Bucholz (42) in the Pete Martinez comp pick
Craig Hansen (26) and Michael Bowden (47) in the Derek Lowe comp pick
A mere three years later, 4 of the 5 players (now aged 23 or 24) have spent time in Boston or are depth players in Pawtucket and are legitimate options for the Red Sox, while Bowden is a 21-year-old AA pitcher with a 0.85 WHIP and holding opponents to a .491 OPS against.

As I said, this the the exception to what normally happens (illustrated below by the Snyder/Miller draft), but it resulted in the Red Sox re-stocking their cupboard very quickly with some exceptional players.
By the way, Trevor Crowe was taken 14th in that draft. Yuck.

by The DiaTriber on Jun 6, 2008 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions

Who was the other Pedro comp pick?

by Jay on Jun 6, 2008 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions

I looked and couldn’t find it.
After a little digging, it was Jonathan Egan – C – Pick 57

Not even sure if he’s still in the organization as he’s not listed on their B-Ref depth chart or MiLB’s database. Baeball Cube has him in the Sally League last year, but nothing this year.

It looks like he’s had some personal problems to sort out, so that could have played a factor.

by The DiaTriber on Jun 6, 2008 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions