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What's on draft? Your 2008 Indians draftees!

T. fleerdon here, alongside the estimable ghanki, to deliver you the nuance-free, unabashedly partisan draft coverage you never asked for in the first place. Click here  to see the community's witty and highly relevant live draft reactions.

The team's picks:

 

29. Lonnie Chisenhall, Oct. '88, INF, 6'1", 200 lbs., JUCO

76. Curtis Haley, June '90, RHP, 6'3", 180 lbs., HS

107. Cord Phelps, Jan. '87, 2B, 6'2", 200 lbs, NCAA

141. David Roberts, Sept. '86, RHP, 6'3", 215, NCAA

171. Steve Putnam, Jul. '87, RHP, 6'2", 215, NCAA

201. Jeremie Tice, Sept. '86, 3B, 6'1", 225, NCAA

 

Lonnie Chisenhall, INF

With the penultimate first-round pick, and with a number of well-thought-of "first round" talents remaining, the Cleveland Indians selected OH MY GOD THIS GUY'S A THIEF WHO DOESN'T HIT HOME RUNS WHAT BROWNIES ARE THEY EATING??!?!?

Okay, I just took a cold shower and wrote down my TV's serial number; let's continue. The 100 percent awesomely named Lonnie Chisenhall is a 19-year-old, meh-gloved, lefty-hitting, multi-position infielder who was having a good freshman season at South Carolina before he and some other dudes WHOOPS jacked a couple grand's worth of electronics out of a school-owned storage facility. Criminal charges and a year of JUCO in Pitt Co., NC, later, here he is. I don't mean to be dismissive, but I'd rather not be judged on who I was as an 18-year-old, so I'll extend that right to Lonnie. To most commenters' credit (except for ours, of course), the Indians' character sniff test of Chisenhall seems to suffice. At least as to his character. As to his athleticism, on the other hand...

SwerbsBlurbs's (pronounced "SwerbsBlurbziz") Dennis Nosco, a vocal critic of the Tribe's previous drafts, had this to say of the pick:

Not that Chisenhall won't hit. It's just that he is unlikely to perform like a first round pick. He would have to (a) Develop big power (he doesn't have a lot of speed) to be a corner infielder or outfielder or (b) be able to play second base at the pro level and you should NOT be drafting guys in the first round whose success is predicated on them being able to be successful at a middle of the infield position they haven't been trained at and questionably even have the ability to play.

Keith Law and others expressed similar disdain for the pick, albeit with more commas. According to the mock boards at the big media outlets, Chisenhall was taken scores of picks early.

The Indians-are-eating-shroom-brownies-I-would-rather-have-Carlos-Gutierrez crowd did not, however, comprise a totality of the observers. Most notably, BP's Kevin Goldstein saw Chisenhall as a reasonable pick.

He’s not a shortstop, but he gives them a non-1B and he’s a nice pick here. I almost put him at 30 for Boston. Best JUCO hitter in the draft, and could fit at 2B or 3B. He can hit for average, power could end up average.

I had Chisenhall #35. So this is NOT a big reach at all. Among hitters who are not big one dimensional first basemen, Chisenhall is one of the best.

(Hat tip: hans)

I won't pretend that this is my area of expertise, or for that matter, that I have an area of expertise. I will say this. If the Indians were willing to spend their first-round pick on a line-drive hitter with a so-so glove, then (a) they must think more of him than does Keith Law, and (b) they must have been seriously unimpressed with the rest of the talent on the board.

Let's look at that (a). The first point of note there is signability: As with Beau Mills last season, the front office doesn't anticipate any difficulty getting Chisenhall's John Hancock. ghanki notes that the Pirates drafted him out of high school in the 2006's 11th round, but failed to sign him. That segues nicely into this vintage quote from the Pirates' organization the ghankster dug up: "We like his bat, we like his power. But [signing him is] one of those situations." That was then; this is now.

Power, hey? Here's gahnki again: "One thing to note is that [Chisenhall] is only 19 years old. Grady Sizemore had very little power at 19. If he gains some man muscle[TM 2007 Torii Hunter] and retools his swing a bit he could gain some decent pop." That lines up nicely with Tribe scouting director Brad Grant's take:

The bat is a No. 1 tool, his bat is ahead of his power right now. He's a very disciplined hitter; he's got a very patient approach. Right now, he's more of a line-drive, gap hitter, and as he continues to mature, he'll develop power.

That discipline seems like the real draw, though. gahnki's got some thoughts. "It’s pretty obvious that the Indians drafted him because of the low k rate and the very impressive 38BB/8K. Although playing at a JUCO level raises some questions the walk numbers should translate nicely." I'll agree with that. I'm optimistic, as well, that we've got a true tough-out contact hitter here.

Of course, he's no DH. Castrovince tells us that Chisenhall will break into the system at shortstop and transition to the hot corner. If he can stick there, he gives us some long-term depth at a position of need in the system. Apparently he's got just-average range, but a solid arm -- he served as a closer for his JUCO. Aaaand...he's slow. What else is new.

Star-divide

Quick note on (b) -- that the rest of guys weren't anything to write home about. Here's the party line via Tribe scouting director Brad Grant:

This was the best player available. Lonnie's been a guy that we've had targeted from the beginning. Picking at 29, it's really difficult to know who's going to be there. There were no surprises above him, [and] he was the best talent on the board at 29.

Obviously, you expect to hear that from Grant, but doesn't it ring true here? In a first round with a smattering of high school pitchers and a bunch of big-bat, little-glove college guys? I think so.

And gahnki adds that, if the Indians over-drafted, it may have been necessary: "All in all the pick is much better than my original thoughts. If the character issues aren’t relevant any longer I think we took a decent player here. He offers patience at the plate with defensive versatility. Pretty much what every team wants out of a player. I think he may have been a reach, but the Indians were obviously afraid that someone would take him before we drafted again."

Frankly, I'm happy with this pick just because it cheesed so many people off. We must be doing something right. Interesting, too, that for the second straight year the Indians went draft shopping in a less fashionable venue (Mills was from a non-NCAA conference, and Lonnie's from JUCO). Oh, and no word yet on whether he's a sufficiently valuable chip to get Garrett Atkins.

From here, I'll turn it over exclusively to my cohort. Take it away, gahnki.

Curtis Haley, RHP

Haley comes from a small high school in Texas. The competition level he faced is questionable, but he dominated at the level nonetheless. He is 6"3 and 180 pounds. A nice frame for a pitcher.

From everything I have read Haley has two absolutely outstanding pitches. A fastball that touches 95 but averages around 92-93. The pitch that has me intrigued is his curveball which is around 80 mph. He can get people out with this curve. It was absolutely unfair to watch high school kids face him. One of the hitters he faced almost broke his knees trying to avoid getting hit by it only to have it drop right in the middle of the plate. MLB.com also notes that he has a change up but seldom used it. A change up is usually the easiest pitch to improve so it is no big deal.

I have a little concern over his leg placement coming out of his motion. It is inconsistent from pitch to pitch and he points his left foot at odd angles sometimes. This is quite a minor detail, though.

There is a concern that he will not be easy to sign. He is committed to play at Rice University and the rumbling is that he will want first round money. I cannot comment on the legitimacy of those rumblings.

Overall, he is a very good pick if we can sign him. Part of me believes that we can sign him because we passed on Tim Melville, who had first round talent but fell because of ridiculous demands. If signability was an issue I think we would have taken the higher talent in Melville. Although, Haley could easily be undervalued or overvalued because of the competition level he faced.

Robert "Cord" Phelps, 2B

I can't really say anything definitive on this pick. He's from Stanford, second basemen, measurables of 6''2 200lbs, and has a cool middle name. That's pretty much enough for me.

The Indians must see something that others don't here. I'm watching some video on him and he plays a nice second base. The fundamentals are there, but I can't say anything about him without numbers that are rarely kept at the college level. If someone wants to attempt to make a RZR evaluation, well, good luck.

Cord is a switch hitter who has a .299 (144-482) career batting average with 78 RBI and 95 runs scored in 143 games (126 starts), playing primarily at second base but also at shortstop and third base • Developed a power stroke in his junior season with 10 home runs after not hitting any in his first two years at Stanford.

That last paragraph was taken directly from the Stanford website.

I noticed that his slugging % took a dramatic turn up in 2008. He went from a .196 % in his freshman year to a .556 % his junior year. His OPS last year was .985.

I think that the Indians see a player who improved greatly last year and who may have a little more upside than the average college player.

It was a definite reach, but if the Indians were targeting him then I have no problem with it. Also, his dad's first name is Cord as well. I really want to meet this family.

David Roberts, RHP

Big time reach. He may have been available in the 7th or 8th round. I hope the Indians have something on this kid that other people don't.
I have no idea what to think of this pick. [If, like me, you're using Nosco as a reverse barometer a la Custer's use of Dustin Hoffman in Little Big Man, Roberts is going to win multiple Cy Youngs. As a closer. -fleerdon]

Zach Putnam, RHP / OF?

Yuck..the kid's from Michigan. While I hate all things piss and blue it is nice to see a player from the cold north get drafted. He's 6'2", 215lbs and throws with decent velocity on his fastball. It goes from the high 80's to low 90's. What I like is the movement on the fastball. MLB.com actually singles it out as being very noticeable. He also throws an average slider, an unimpressive change up, a pretty good curve, and a splitter that can be considered an out pitch.

He is going to need significant time in the minors. He needs to rework his delivery so he doesn't waste energy and movement. Too often he just "throws" instead of pitches. Interestingly enough he is also a nice hitting prospect. I think that we should keep him as a pitcher, though. He has surprisingly high upside for a 5th round pick.

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Great job guys. Thanks. Nice summary of what’s out there – with just the right amount of commas.

by Brick. on Jun 6, 2008 10:15 AM EDT   0 recs

So… we just drafted Dustin Pedroia?

by mrich on Jun 6, 2008 10:23 AM EDT   0 recs

Except Pedroia is a righty hitter and would need 5 inch platform shoes to be 6’1”. But you take my point. College middle infielder, plus patience, gap power, possible d-bag.

Sorry, I’m still not liking this pick. Never thought I’d agree with Nosco, but this system needs high ceiling guys IMO and frankly to me he doesn’t sound like one.

Prove me wrong on all counts, Lonnie.

by mrich on Jun 6, 2008 10:29 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Honestly, if we just drafted Dustin Pedroia, then it was a great pick.

by Roger Dorn on Jun 6, 2008 10:32 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Absolutely. We could really use a Pedroia now.

I tried to make Paul Reuschel my Avatar, but he didn't fit into the box.

by emd2k3 on Jun 6, 2008 11:14 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

and you could use a swift kick in the nuts.

by Brick. on Jun 6, 2008 11:41 AM EDT to parent up   1 recs

I’ll be the first to admit I didn’t know who this Lonnie kid was. I’m not sure I agree that there wasn’t better talent available; Tyson Ross was my boy. I thought Ross could develop into a #1 starter.

My first and second choices were Ross and Jemile Weeks. Of course, Oakland drafts both of them in rounds 1 and 2. Damn you, Beane.

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on Jun 6, 2008 10:31 AM EDT   0 recs

It actually worked out well for Ross. He grew up in the Oakland area while rooting for the A’s. Billy Beane, apparently, spent some time scouting him personally.

by gahnki on Jun 6, 2008 11:26 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

You can watch Phelps in 2 or 3 games this weekend in the Super Regional at Fullerton.

by palcal on Jun 6, 2008 10:35 AM EDT   0 recs

subject to regional coverage on ESPN/ESPN2
check your local listings or use your dish

by palcal on Jun 6, 2008 10:49 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Friday game is on ESPN2 nationwide at 10:30pm

by palcal on Jun 6, 2008 10:51 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Thanks for the heads up. I’ll be tuning in.

by gahnki on Jun 6, 2008 11:26 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

The problem here is that we’re all using the same reference work-Baseball America-as a baseline, and we don’t have any basis for an independent judgment. If you’re Nosco, you condemn them for departing from Scripture, and you cite cases like Will Hartley as damning precedents. I’m not willing to go that far.

Obviously, time will tell, but it does seem odd that we didn’t opt for more of what mrich calls “high ceiling” guys. Chisenhall looks to me like Trevor Crowe without all the glitter. Haley is probably the best looking guy here. I wonder if he has been followed by the same scout who brought us Adam Miller.

by ken from alexandria on Jun 6, 2008 10:54 AM EDT   0 recs

I believe that MLB.com provides content that differs from Baseball America. Really, MLB.com was a great tool since they have video on almost every player we drafted. Sadly,David Roberts didn’t have any video or anything written on him in either Baseball America or MLB.com.

by gahnki on Jun 6, 2008 11:28 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

And Goldstein, so it’s a three way perspective. I agree though, that probably everything else you read springboards of those guys.

I just hope that BA and MLB were wrong. Not wrong as in “Shapiro knows something everyone else doesn’t”, because that doesn’t fix it; wrong as in “Many teams had LC in the top 40, and Baseball America is just off.” Otherwise, Mirabelli and company are in need of some serious salonpas after all that overreaching.

by dgcambridge on Jun 6, 2008 11:33 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

What I find incredibly interesting is the statement that Lonnie Chisenhall was the best talent available. Was that just PR spin or an actual truthful statement?

by gahnki on Jun 6, 2008 11:41 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Yeah, there’s simply no way to know. It’s a meaningless statement.

by dgcambridge on Jun 6, 2008 11:43 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Is Curtis Haley the same as Trey Haley? I think MLB listed the name as Curtis, but linked to a video that said Trey.

by dgcambridge on Jun 6, 2008 11:44 AM EDT   0 recs

They are the same. I don’t know which is his name by birth but both belong to the same person.

by gahnki on Jun 6, 2008 11:56 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

He’s probably Curtis Haley the third.

Hard truth: Your eyes lie.

by AngG on Jun 6, 2008 12:37 PM EDT to parent up   1 recs

Here’s a quote I found from a local paper that worries me:

Haley, who signed with Rice University in the fall of 2007, said he is still undecided about whether he will sign a professional contract or play college baseball.

“As far as right now, I don’t know,” he said. “Rice is a prestigious school and still one of the possibilities. It’s a long process, and it’s going to take a while.”

by gahnki on Jun 6, 2008 11:58 AM EDT   0 recs

I think this suggests that signability may have been a factor in the Chisenhall choice. He’s obviously not going to get a scholarship to a big-time school, so it’s us or JC.

by SuddenSam on Jun 6, 2008 1:59 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Spending some idle time googling the guys we’ve drafted on the second day, found this story about the 231st pick overall. I hope he doesn’t sign.

by NickFantana on Jun 6, 2008 12:07 PM EDT   0 recs

Its funny how the experts try to forecast what these kids are going to do. It such a crapshoot, even with the early rounders.

Sports Weekly list of #1 picks still in majors:
1987 Griffey
1990 Chipper
1993 A-Rod
1995 Erstad
1998 Burrell
1998 Josh Hamilton
2000 Adrian Gonzalez
2001 Mauer
2003 Delmon Young
2005 Justin Upton
2006 Hochevar

by DixonCayne on Jun 6, 2008 12:14 PM EDT   0 recs

Does anyone know what’s up with Steven/Zach Putnam? The Michigan roster has him as Zach while MLB.com has him as Steven.

by gahnki on Jun 6, 2008 12:20 PM EDT   0 recs

Minor correction – Chisenhall played at Pitt CC, which is not in Pittsburgh but in Pitt County, NC. He is from that area, and after getting the boot from USC he contacted Pitt’s coach. It’s not Division I, but Pitt CC plays against good competition and nearly qualified for the JUCO World Series tournament.

by ken on Jun 6, 2008 12:39 PM EDT   0 recs

And here I was trying to give the guy a proper reception. Much obliged.

by fleerdon on Jun 6, 2008 1:53 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

So, here’s my good buddy Nosco.

You know, if the John Mirabelli regime had given us top choice after top choice that panned out I would say, hey, ‘Mirabelli (or now Grant) knows more than me’. But Mirabelli has failed miserably in early rounds. Yes, that’s right. His first round picks (counting supplemental first rounders) since he became scouting director in 2000 have been: Corey Smith, Derek Thompson, Dan Denham, JD Martin, Alan Horne, Mike Conroy, Adam Miller, Brad Snyder, Michael Aubrey, Micah Schilling, Jeremy Guthrie, Matt Whitney, Jeremy Sowers, Trevor Crowe, John Drennen, David Huff, Beau Mills. So, in the 8 drafts Mirabelli has run before this year he has had 17 first round picks and we have exactly how many major leaguers to show for it? ONE, and he is playing in Baltimore after we gave him away for nothing because he was such a disappointment here. Remember folks, that most teams get ONE first round pick a year and, with TWO first round picks a year for 8 years, we have gotten no major leaguers of significance. NONE. The major league average is somewhere around 30% and we got 1 out of 17, looking at it right now. So John Mirabelli/Brad Grant should get no free passes because, frankly, their failure to produce with that many extra picks has REALLY hurt this franchise. emphasis mine

Nosco’s off-base quite a bit in this article - discounting the Indians’ Latin American operations, the relative success of the organization’s lower round picks, and rather obtusely beating the Chisenhall criminal record dead horse. (Seriously? We, who have nothing invested in this, should care, when the Indians - who will have seven figures invested in it—don’t?)

But the statement I emphasized from Nosco’s day one re-cap is the one I don’t know enough to refute. Anyone have any thoughts on this? Are the Indians unusually bad at high draft rounds? That 30 percent number, I’d believe it of top five picks overall, maybe of top ten, but the top thirty? An average of ten guys a year from the first round are productive major leaguers within six years? Again, maybe he’s right. But that sounds a little, cleveland.com-ish to me.

by fleerdon on Jun 6, 2008 1:52 PM EDT   0 recs

Nosco’s off-base quite a bit in this article – discounting the Indians’ Latin American operations, the relative success of the organization’s lower round picks,

And the fact that the Guthrie and Aubrey picks were very much lauded at the time, and Whitney got almost universal praise as a prospect before breaking his leg.

I get the criticisms of Mirabelli, but this is overreacting. If you get to count Corey Smith or Dan Denham, you should also count Fausto Carmona (signed in 2000) and Rafael Perez (signed in 2002).

by Ryan on Jun 6, 2008 2:12 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I think it’s worth acknowledging that the yield hasn’t been great, but the observations are still heavily skewed in many, many different ways — only one of which is the overemphasis on first-round draft picks, to the exclusion of deeper picks and international signings. The Indians have gotten significant value out of “flier” picks, guys considered signability problems that kick them from the first three rounds, picked by the Indians in the teen rounds, and ultimately signed for top-round money as often as not. They also are doing pretty well with deep picks, period.

A guy like Whitney is just bad luck. I mean, he broke his leg; that’s not like taking a pitcher with a balky shoulder. Guthrie wasn’t bad luck — it doesn’t matter if many teams were fooled, we were one of those teams. Further, Guthrie’s eventual success as a big-leaguer essentially vindicates Mirabelli, even if not the organization. It’s not Mirabelli’s job to make a guy into a major leaguer, it’s his job to pick guys who can and will be major leaguers. Guthrie and is a major leaguer.

Some of his huge math problems:

1. 2006-2007 should not even be in the equation yet, and probably not 2005.
2. Sowers is a major leaguer by any meaningful analytical standard. Most in the industry would agree that he’s at least a #4 starter, right now.
3. The “average yield” — assuming he’s done the math right at all — is heavily skewed by the first few picks in the draft. There is nothing magic about using the 30th pick as a cutoff, or the end of the first sandwich round. There is an extremely steep decline in yield from the first three picks to the next 5-10, and from the first dozen to the rest of the first round.

The Indians have had zero top-five picks and only a couple in the top dozen. If you recalculate typical yield based on picks 6-40, or 16-40, I bet you’d find the Indians are perhaps 1-2 major leaguers behind, and catching up fast based on the last couple of years.

by Jay on Jun 6, 2008 2:29 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I think “overreacting” is a polite way to put it.
There’s something there, just not the degree he thinks there is.

by The DiaTriber on Jun 6, 2008 2:29 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Aaron Laffey, 16th-rounder in 2003.

by ken from alexandria on Jun 6, 2008 4:51 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I don’t like that guy very much. I’m pretty sure he has a heart condition because he freaks out every time someone doesn’t draft by the Baseball America standards. Yea, Baseball America is a nice source but they surely aren’t the only ones. And I can guarantee that they don’t put the same time and money that most major league teams do into scouting.

by gahnki on Jun 6, 2008 2:20 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

An average of ten guys a year from the first round are productive major leaguers within six years?

Let’s take a look the major-leaguers from the 2000 drafts, the main crux of the argument:

2000
1 Adrian Gonzalez
2 Adam Johnson (cup of coffee)
5 Justin Wayne (8 MLB starts)
6 Rocco Baldelli
11 Dave Krynzel (48 MLB at-bats)
12 Joe Borchard
15 Chase Utley
16 Billy Traber
17 Ben Diggins (24 MLB innings)
19 Sean Burnett
20 Chris Bootcheck
21 Boof Bonser
22 Phil Dumatrait
26 Corey Smith
29 Adam Wainwright
30 Scott Thorman

If we’re charitable, that’s 12 players with any kind of playing time.

by Ryan on Jun 6, 2008 2:28 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

The 2000 draft was awful. It’s known as the worst draft in possibly all of baseball history.

Chase Utley was a great get at 15 by the Phillies, but he broke all of his projections.

The top ten go as follows:

1. Marlins Adrian Gonzalez 1B
2. Twins Adam Johnson RHP
3. Cubs Luis Montanez SS
4. Royals Mike Stodolka LHP
5. Expos Justin Wayne RHP
6. Rays Rocco Baldelli OF
7. Rockies Matt Harrington
8. Tigers Matt Wheatland RHP
9. Padres Mark Phillips LHP
10. Angels Joe Torres LHP

by gahnki on Jun 6, 2008 2:34 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I appreciate everybody’s insight a lot. Thanks for your thoughts, and for the bump.

by fleerdon on Jun 6, 2008 2:52 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Veering a little off topic. Adrian Gonzalez is one of the more underappreciated players in baseball. Small market, pitchers park, unassuming personality, good defense, lots of doubles.

by ClarkM on Jun 6, 2008 8:42 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

and very disappointing as a number one draft pick

by gahnki on Jun 6, 2008 9:09 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

In his first two full season in the majors, he had WARP3 scores of 7.5 and 8.7. In a straight up WARP3 analysis, he was more valuable than Ryan Howard last year and as valuable as Fielder. He has a very real chance of being the second best first baseman in baseball over the next few years. How is that dissappointing?

by ClarkM on Jun 6, 2008 9:48 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I meant disappointing for the team that drafted him. His wrist injury was some bad luck that forced the Marlins to trade him for a reliever, Ugueth Urbina. He has developed nicely in Texas and San Diego.

by gahnki on Jun 6, 2008 11:06 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

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