Let's Go Tribe!: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:



Around SBN: Read our new Phoenix Coyotes blog! Bar-right-arrows



Read Related

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Display:

What, all it takes is a 10 game losing streak to make Wedge angry? How passe of him.

by talonk on Jul 11, 2008 11:48 AM EDT   0 recs

I am pretty sure he has had these at earlier points in the season as well

by Roger Dorn on Jul 11, 2008 12:01 PM EDT   0 recs

how can you be pretty sure?

by JulioBernazard on Jul 11, 2008 12:03 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

By reading similar articles to the one you linked earlier in the season

by Roger Dorn on Jul 11, 2008 12:40 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

so he wasn’t asking how “one” can be pretty sure? you’re either sure or you’re not sure. there’s no “pretty” sure. it’s an oxymoron in a way. well, if i typed it that’s what i would have meant.

by Brick. on Jul 11, 2008 12:53 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I guess I am not sure then because I am not certain that my memory is correct on this and don’t feel like looking it up.

That said, it would have been awkward for me to say “I am not sure that he has had these at earlier points in the season as well.”

by Roger Dorn on Jul 11, 2008 1:07 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

i’m just messing around.

by Brick. on Jul 11, 2008 1:16 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

You know something, you’re the one making an assertion here — that this was the first one. The article doesn’t say that.

I think the onus on you to explain why you think it was the first one.

by Jay on Jul 11, 2008 2:43 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

"This was huge for all of us," said Dellucci, adding that a rather fiery pregame talk to the team by manager Eric Wedge gave him inspiration.

Because Looch hasn’t played inspired baseball till now, natch.

More seriously: Since none of us are in the clubhouse, we have to rely on media accounts of the locker room. and this is the first I’ve read of any type of meeting all year long. Feel free to post a link if you’ve read of earlier ones.

by JulioBernazard on Jul 11, 2008 3:01 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

looks like the onus is on you, jay.

by Brick. on Jul 11, 2008 3:06 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

From April 17, 2008:

And in the wake of Wedge’s pregame pep talk Thursday, the Indians turned in perhaps their best performance of this young season. Behind an impressive outing from Fausto Carmona and an awakening at the plate, the Tribe coasted to an 11-1 victory over the Tigers to snap a three-game losing skid and earn a split of the two-game series at Progressive Field.
That’s an average of 12 runs following those meetings. Maybe Wedge should have one every day.

by FredOx on Jul 11, 2008 3:11 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Maybe he had one of those speaches before the May 10 game against Toronto and the June 4 meeting in Texas, since they won those games 12-0 and 15-9 – and are the only other times the team’s scored more than 10 runs in a game.

If so, he’d better have MORE of those meetings

"It's hard to win when you don't score." Cliff Lee, 9/28/05.

by Harry Doyle on Jul 11, 2008 3:45 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I am somewhat sure he might have had meetings before those games. I remember he had other meetings.

by odradek on Jul 11, 2008 11:47 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I’ll fell free to post one, but I’ll also feel free not to look.

I believe Wedge has called clubhouse meetings before this one, possibly even fiery ones, and nobody has demonstrated otherwise.

by Jay on Jul 11, 2008 3:18 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Couldn’t tell if you were replying to me or Julio

by Roger Dorn on Jul 11, 2008 3:51 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

You can’t prove a negative.

by JulioBernazard on Jul 11, 2008 5:12 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Maybe, but you’re not even trying.

You could actually prove that nothing had been reported in the Plain Dealer.

by Jay on Jul 11, 2008 8:57 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Ahh yes, cuz, you know everything that ever happens get reported in the PD. See Julio, it’s easy.

Resident LGT beer kinda sewer

by mauichuck on Jul 11, 2008 9:34 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Yeah, this blog basically hates the PD… until it’s time to use it as a research tool.

by JulioBernazard on Jul 12, 2008 12:36 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Well, if that’s what you think, you’re basically acknowledging that we have no reason to think that this was the first time it happened this season.

Trust me, this argument is not winnable. Some folks jumped to a conclusion with absolutely no foundation. That’s the whole story.

by Jay on Jul 12, 2008 3:33 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I’m just imagining the response if Julio wouldda said, “well Hoynes and Livingston and Pluto never mentioned any fiery speeches before, therefore Wedge must not have given one before this.” He wouldda gotten ridiculed for at least 10,000 words.

The thing is, it’s a wonder that the PD published anything about Pearl Harbor, the Kennedy assassination or 9/11. Those boyz truly are in the dark.

Resident LGT beer kinda sewer

by mauichuck on Jul 12, 2008 4:03 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

This is all a sideshow distraction.

You disrespect the boys at the PD. Fine.

Folks here disrespect certain writers — fine. But nobody has ever claimed that any of them would miss out on a chance to report on the clubhouse being closed to the media for any meeting — let alone the manager calling a meeting to give a fiery little talk. Reporting the obvious stuff is 90% of what those guys do.

Are you trying to just win an argument with innuendo, even if it makes no sense at all?

I called BS on a claim, and it was BS. Why are we still talking about it?

by Jay on Jul 12, 2008 4:21 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Here’s the claim:

You can’t prove a negative.

Is that what you’re calling BS?

Resident LGT beer kinda sewer

by mauichuck on Jul 12, 2008 5:52 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

No.

I’m calling that BS as a “defense” of the original claim, which was totally careless and baseless.

by Jay on Jul 13, 2008 4:59 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Medina Gazette reports on April 18 of a team meeting called by Wedge:

“With his club off to a 5-10 start and failing in practically every phase, Cleveland manager Eric Wedge called his first team meeting prior to Thursday’s game. He was less than revealing concerning the nature of the sit down. ‘I’m not going to reference the meeting at all,’ said Wedge, whose defending Central Division champion Indians entered the series finale against Detroit tied with the Tigers in the division basement. ‘It’s our business and we’ll leave it as such.’”

by odradek on Jul 12, 2008 11:40 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Sorry, I was referring to Julio’s comment that it was the tardiest butt-chewing ever

by Roger Dorn on Jul 11, 2008 3:50 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Why wait ‘til now? Oh, I don’t know. Maybe because his job is finally on the line? Though from Shap’s statements, I seriously doubt that.

Main reason the streak ended—yesterday was my birthday.

"Lotta heart in Cleveland." - Ian Hunter

by Denver Tribe Fan on Jul 11, 2008 12:11 PM EDT   0 recs

Wedge made mention on the pregame that this talk was planned ahead of time and he wanted it to be made at home so guys like Hafner and Westbrook would be able to be there.

So, it was probably supposed to be a “post-CC” pep talk but obviously morphed into something else after the streak of losses.

by Toxicadam on Jul 11, 2008 12:33 PM EDT   0 recs

i find the compliance to the lack of periods distrurbing.

by Brick. on Jul 11, 2008 12:55 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Don’t become a grumpy old man on me. We already have a mauichuck.

by Toxicadam on Jul 11, 2008 1:15 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Didn’t Leyland go ballistic on the Tigers in the clubhouse early in 2006, shortly before they turned things around and went to the Series? I seem to recall that tongue lashing occurred in April or early May, though. Not at the all star break.

"Lotta heart in Cleveland." - Ian Hunter

by Denver Tribe Fan on Jul 11, 2008 1:03 PM EDT   0 recs

Leyland did it again this year too.

by Toxicadam on Jul 11, 2008 1:16 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Three or four times a week.

by odradek on Jul 11, 2008 11:48 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

yes, yes, Leyland and Ozzie are the kings of the well timed pants poop. It’s what makes them geniuses and puts W’s in the standings. It’s what Wedge lacks and why we can’t win. Don’t let ESPN make you stupid.

by Brick. on Jul 11, 2008 1:18 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I’m not suggesting that there’s a cause and effect. There’s no way to measure whether a manager has any impact on his players’ motivation or performance (and it didn’t work for Leyland this year, or when he was with the Rockies). I’m just saying, as I did earlier in the season, that I think it would be nice if it seemed like Wedge gives a flying f* once in awhile. And did it before the season was over.

Speaking of giving a flying f*, it’s the 40th anniversary of Earl Weaver’s first game as a manager, today.

"Lotta heart in Cleveland." - Ian Hunter

by Denver Tribe Fan on Jul 11, 2008 1:49 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

sorry, couldn’t figure out how to get rid of the bold type

"Lotta heart in Cleveland." - Ian Hunter

by Denver Tribe Fan on Jul 11, 2008 1:50 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I don’t know why you think he doesn’t give a flying f___. Just because he keeps his composure when he’s on-camera doesn’t mean anything about how he is off-camera. I’ve never heard anybody talk any crap about Eric Wedge, not even not-for-attribution, except for Milton Bradley. There’s never any whispers about how someone doesn’t like him or he doesn’t seem to care or has “lost” his clubhouse. If he really didn’t seem to care, to his teammates and front office colleagues, then we’d have heard something about it by now.

by Jay on Jul 11, 2008 2:46 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Kind of a recurring theme for you, about Wedge. The only conclusion I can come to is that this organization almost certainly has metrics by which it tracks its on-field management, just as it tracks the players. If Wedge is still here, then he’s still passing muster, and as somebody to whom this means next to nothing, that’s good enough for me.

by fleerdon on Jul 11, 2008 2:55 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

A recurring theme? My recurring theme is let’s not pretend to know things that we don’t know, about Wedge or about anything else.

by Jay on Jul 11, 2008 2:59 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

OK, you’re right. It seems to ME that Wedge doesn’t give a flying f*. I do know that. And I’m not even a Wedge-hater.

But your point is well taken. Thanks.

"Lotta heart in Cleveland." - Ian Hunter

by Denver Tribe Fan on Jul 11, 2008 3:55 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Look, Jay, as far as self-cognizant life goes, we’re alone in the universe. You’re just deluding yourself by believing otherwise.

by fleerdon on Jul 11, 2008 11:16 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Metaphysics and baseball go together like bar-b-que sauce and accordions.

Resident LGT beer kinda sewer

by mauichuck on Jul 12, 2008 4:12 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Don’t tell George Will that!

by peter m on Jul 12, 2008 5:10 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Leyland did it on April 17, 2008. He said, “We stunk, period. Stunk, and it’s not good enough. It’s been going on here before, and it’s not going to happen here [now]. It’s not going to go on here.” They had lost 10-2 to your Cleveland Indians, and Leyland felt the players were more concerned about getting out of town for their road trip than winning the game.

They lost, 4-3, the next night, then went on to end April on a 9-2 run.

But I prefer this Leyland rant, even if it never really happend (although the mental image of a be-socked Leyland may be considered unsettling to some).

"It's hard to win when you don't score." Cliff Lee, 9/28/05.

by Harry Doyle on Jul 11, 2008 1:45 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Let’s be honest. If it took an old man yelling at them to jump start the team, none of the players on the Tigers—especially the veteran ones—have any business on a major league ballclub. The same goes for any team.

And I’m with Jay on Wedge’s fireworks. The media doesn’t have access to the clubhouse whenever they please. I think that’s the way you should be handling a team: take issues privately and act like all is well publicly.

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on Jul 11, 2008 4:00 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Wedge: You guys. You lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first. You lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes you? Jeff!

Datz: Lollygaggers!

Wedge: Lollygaggers. What’s our record?

Datz: 37 and 53.

Wedge: 37 and 53. How’d we ever manage to win 37.

"It's hard to win when you don't score." Cliff Lee, 9/28/05.

by Harry Doyle on Jul 11, 2008 1:23 PM EDT   0 recs

Datz: It’s a miracle.

by painaxl on Jul 11, 2008 1:31 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Best line of that speech.

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on Jul 11, 2008 4:00 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

He’s ‘quoted’ in the article on Indians.com as saying, ””This is one [amazing] lesson in toughness.”

I am left to ponder what appearantly unprintable word he used that was replaced with “amazing.”

"It's hard to win when you don't score." Cliff Lee, 9/28/05.

by Harry Doyle on Jul 11, 2008 1:26 PM EDT   0 recs

This is one weglarz lesson in toughness

This is one bearded lesson in toughness

This is one panini lesson in toughness

This is one moustache lesson in toughness

This is one guthrie or phillips lesson in toughness

This is one skinnner lesson in toughness

This is one omar lesson in toughness

by Brick. on Jul 11, 2008 1:35 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

This is one [Sal Fasano’s moustache] in toughness.

Actually, other articles quote him as saying “this is one hell of a lesson in toughness.”

by FredOx on Jul 11, 2008 1:48 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

They can’t write “hell” on Indians.com? Who are they afraid of offending Satanists?

To parapharase my namesake, “Don’t worry, nobody is [reading] anyway.”

"It's hard to win when you don't score." Cliff Lee, 9/28/05.

by Harry Doyle on Jul 11, 2008 2:04 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Well, ya know there are lots of new guys around the clubhouse, who may not feel at fault.

Every guy who gets called up from here on out should get a DVD copy of the butt-chewing or a personal preemptive scolding.

by jhon on Jul 11, 2008 1:33 PM EDT   0 recs

Wedge should call each new call-up into his office, make them sit down and proceed to scream at them at the top of his lungs for three minutes. His face has to get beet red. That should do it.

by odradek on Jul 11, 2008 11:52 PM EDT to parent up   1 recs

I have to think along with some of the others that this talk came because he finally fears his job. Which is good. Especially if it means his firing.

Dear Mr. Sabean, I hear you have a reputation of being stupid. Want to deal Lincecum or Cain? You can pick THREE of these 4 players for either: Borowski, Dellucci, Blake, Byrd.

by westbrook on Jul 11, 2008 2:14 PM EDT   0 recs

this is buster olney level speculation here.

by Brick. on Jul 11, 2008 3:02 PM EDT to parent up   1 recs

Olney generally has a little bit of logic behind even his most wild-eyed ravings. The game recap on the Indians’ site says this:

“Eric’s been extremely consistent, extremely positive and extremely strong,” Shapiro said. “He’s not responsible for those guys being hurt. I don’t think he’s responsible for our failures.”
His players also stand behind him, especially after Thursday’s meeting. What part of that implies Wedge is even a little bit at risk? Shapiro is not Omar Minaya.

by FredOx on Jul 11, 2008 3:18 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Obviously, the whole thing was supposed to be a quote, like this:

"Eric’s been extremely consistent, extremely positive and extremely strong," Shapiro said. "He’s not responsible for those guys being hurt. I don’t think he’s responsible for our failures."

His players also stand behind him, especially after Thursday’s meeting.

by FredOx on Jul 11, 2008 3:20 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

A little ‘logic’:

1. 10-game losing streaks don’t happen by chance.

2. It just so happens to be that Shap is traveling with the team after the AS break.

3. I can hope, can’t I?

Dear Mr. Sabean, I hear you have a reputation of being stupid. Want to deal Lincecum or Cain? You can pick THREE of these 4 players for either: Borowski, Dellucci, Blake, Byrd.

by westbrook on Jul 11, 2008 3:42 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

i think he’s traveling with the team becuase the trading deadline is approaching. nothing more , nothing less. if anything to get wedge’s input not evaluate if he should can wedge.

by Brick. on Jul 11, 2008 3:51 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Also, I think the trip was planned a while ago. The team is concerned about the effect on the players of trading C.C.

by odradek on Jul 11, 2008 11:55 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

The 95 Angels were 66-41 at one point, and then they lost nine in a row — twice. You could easily find over a dozen examples of playoff teams losing 8-9 straight at some point. It obviously is much more common for a team that’s just not that good— a team playing badly has a certain chance of losing ten in a row, and it’s not that amazing.

The record is 23, and I believe two teams have reached 21. Losing 21 in a row is vastly more unlikely than losing 10.

by Jay on Jul 11, 2008 3:56 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

There’s a ton of examples of good teams with long losing streaks. Boston lost 10 in a row in 1976 yet finished with a winning record. The next year, they lost nine in a row and seven in a row, yet finished with 97 wins.

Only the 1988 Orioles lost 21 in a row. Montreal lost 20 in 1969. The 1961 Phillies hold the record. Ten in a row is not a big deal (it’s happened 180 times since 1956), although not something I would aspire to.

by FredOx on Jul 11, 2008 4:23 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

10 game losing streaks don’t happen by chance.

Frankly that’s a bit of asinine logic.

We’ve lost 10 games, and it’s Wedge’s fault? What did he/did he not do? Tangibles, please.

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on Jul 11, 2008 4:04 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I imagine what he meant was that poor teams are more likely to lose 10 in a row than good teams. And ya gotta admit, the Indians have looked like a bad team for some time now.

But here’s a better assertion: ya gotta be a pretty bad team to lose 95 games. Let’s see if the Indians are that bad. Time will tell, Brick.

Resident LGT beer kinda sewer

by mauichuck on Jul 11, 2008 4:11 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Sure, poor teams are more likely to lose ten in a row. I’m asking why that means Eric Wedge’s head.

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on Jul 11, 2008 5:16 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

tyrannosaurus recs

by fleerdon on Jul 11, 2008 11:18 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I don’t think the timing of the meeting allows us to assume that Wedge fears for his job. It could have been called anytime during the 0-10 road trip. When the trip began, it was described as make or brake. Obviously, the team came back broke.

Whether he called the meeting after being swept by Chicago, or after being swept by Minnesota, rather than after being swept Detroit really makes no difference.

The article also points out that he had it in Cleveland so the players on the DL would be there too. That makes sense to me, especially considering who’s on the DL.

Moreover, I think the meeting would stay with the players more if it happened in their home locker room, where it will come back to haunt them more often. I have no idea if Wedge thought that or not.

Lastly why should he fear for his job. We can all take shots at him for his managerial abilities, but he did win MOR last season – that’s gotta be worth some job security in most rational organizations. Plus, one of the reasons for hiring him in the first place was his supposed ablity in developing young talent, and that’s what the team needs most now.

"It's hard to win when you don't score." Cliff Lee, 9/28/05.

by Harry Doyle on Jul 11, 2008 3:39 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Most managers end their time with a team by being fired. No need to fear it, it’s inevitable.

Resident LGT beer kinda sewer

by mauichuck on Jul 11, 2008 4:13 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

And if you manage trying not to get fired, you’ll get fired sooner.

by FredOx on Jul 11, 2008 4:26 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Plus, what’s to fear about being fired with a guarenteed contract.

“Oh, [amazing], the hardest thing I have to do all week is open this envelope with my pay check in it and wait for ESPN to hire me as an analyst. Hope I don’t get a paper cut.”

"It's hard to win when you don't score." Cliff Lee, 9/28/05.

by Harry Doyle on Jul 13, 2008 1:52 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

If this were ONLY about 10 losses in a row, I would agree that it’s not a basis to change managers. About 5 games into the slide, the team changed its face. It was the way the team was approaching the games and the way it was losing games. This is a beaten team. I cannot quantify “beaten” and I know you folk rely on quantification heavily. This team may change faces again in the future. I won’t credit Wedge with it. I’ve decided Wedge is not nearly the motivator that better managers are. My mind is made up.

by elsandito on Jul 11, 2008 5:15 PM EDT   0 recs

I’ve decided you don’t know what you’re talking about. I can’t quantify why. My mind is made up.

A MLB manager needs to be many things, but a motivator isn’t really one of them. That’s a nice media image perpetuated by movies and self-aggrandizing pants-poopers like Ozzie Guillen. There are plenty of things to criticze about Eric Wedge, but his inability to motivate Jeremy Sowers into not giving up homers or Victor Martinez into not being hurt or Ryan Garko into not sucking isn’t on the list.

by FredOx on Jul 11, 2008 5:26 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

You feel strongly about this view that baseball managers would not, should not, could not motivate their teams or you would not have responded to this. It seems strange to me that despite all of recorded history, there are so many people that refuse to acknowledge the power of inspiration and the role of inspirational leadership. Have you never met anyone that spoke words that moved you? Have you never had a superior that made you want to do more? Do you see the role of management as organizing and doing clerical work? Are you in a management position yourself? These are not challenges to you. I am trying to understand the breadth of your experience.

by elsandito on Jul 11, 2008 10:37 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs