Game Thread: July 11, 2008
by Ryan on Jul 11, 2008 6:30 PM EDT
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PrintTampa Bay Rays at Cleveland Indians, Jul 11, 2008 7:05 PM EDT
Tampa Bay at Cleveland, 7:05 PM (STO)
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Dear Mr. Sabean, I hear you have a reputation of being stupid. Want to deal Lincecum or Cain? You can pick THREE of these 4 players for either: Borowski, Dellucci, Blake, Byrd.
is Gutz on the roster? why the hell is Dellucci playing
by Gradyforpresident on Jul 11, 2008 6:55 PM EDT reply actions
even in this lost season, i think i die a little inside every time Dellucci suits up.
by DontCallMeJoey on Jul 11, 2008 7:20 PM EDT up reply actions
it’s ridiculous. we need to know if gutz will ever hit enough to be a starter. dellucci is bait.
by Gradyforpresident on Jul 11, 2008 7:21 PM EDT up reply actions
the guy is worse than bait…he’s chum. dump him out of the boat, he stinks
by DontCallMeJoey on Jul 11, 2008 7:26 PM EDT up reply actions
there’s going to be no one here is there
by Gradyforpresident on Jul 11, 2008 7:00 PM EDT reply actions
I want to see Tampa take the East as much as the next guy-I fume inside just thinking about the Red Sox, but I’ll voice a little secret: Tampa’s lineup-outside of the young Longoria and to a lesser extent Pena—really stinks. They have the pitching but not the bats to hold down the Red Sox all season. Winning the wildcard would be a stunning overachievement.
And in several hours the Tribe will have beaten them again.
Lets Go Tribe
One day I'll get over to watch the Tribe play
by new zealand tribe fan on Jul 11, 2008 7:04 PM EDT reply actions
Wow I’m slow on the KKKliff…I just got it and I am stone cold sober.
Still an Ohio boy through and through!
by TribeLoverInNewYork on Jul 11, 2008 7:16 PM EDT up reply actions
ichiro is being paid 17 million? wow the mariners are dumb
by Gradyforpresident on Jul 11, 2008 7:09 PM EDT reply actions
I always thought that Ichiro would look nice leading off for the Tribe and playing right field until he made that stupid comment about Cleveland last year.
Still an Ohio boy through and through!
by TribeLoverInNewYork on Jul 11, 2008 7:14 PM EDT up reply actions
that and he just doesn’t care that much about trying hard at baseball
by DontCallMeJoey on Jul 11, 2008 7:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, it sort of was. My main point is that a talented player can still be effective without a supreme effort. A player who puts forth supreme effort but has little talent will be deifid by the media and essentially useless on the field.
Proud supporter of the Cleveland.
I think this is tremendously wrong or at least vastly over-simplified. You’re talking about appearing to make an effort on an individual play. That is only a tiny amount of the effort that goes into being a ballplayer.
What appears to the naked eye to be “talent” is very often the product of an immense amount of effort, honed over many years. If there’s one thing I’m sure of, it’s that the top raw talents do not in fact rise to the top of the game, but rather only those who devote themselves tirelessly to making the most of their talent.
My argument is that players who rely simply on effort will never, ever make the impact of a more talented player who does not exrt as much effort on a given play. That is vastly over-simplified but, in the day of ESPN, isn’t everything?
Proud supporter of the Cleveland.
Sort of a pointless argument.
There is no “purely on effort” because there’s nobody who’s totally lacking in talent.
How much talent does it take to make up for X amount of less effort? Quite a bit more than most assume.
I think we are discussing different effort here. You would point to Manny and say that he gives a tremendous amount of effort to get where he is. (And he does). I would say that Manny’s talent enables him to not have to xert himself on day by day basis on the scale that someone like John McDonald has to, just to keep a job.
But yes, this is pretty pointless.
Proud supporter of the Cleveland.
And I would say, Manny reportedly has worked on his hitting as much as or more than any other ballplayer alive — and you have no way of separating his talent from his work with your naked eye.
You think you’re seeing talent, but in reality, you have absolutely no idea.
You are missing the point here. I am saying that Manny (just for example) does not have to exert, from game to game, the sort of effort of a John McDonald or Jody Gerut. I know that Manny works extremely hard on his hitting (you can read that anywhere)but what he does not have to do is constantly grind the way players with lesser talent do.
The original argument here was that Ichiro was not worth consideration because he didn’t seem to care enough to try hard. Whatever that means. I say it does not matter if he looks like he tries hard or not, his talent transcends his supposed alck o effort.
You think you are seeing the product of years and years of effort, but in reality, you have no idea.
Proud supporter of the Cleveland.
I’m not missing the point, the point is ridiculous. The significant grinding effort doesn’t happen during each game, it happens before each game and in the offseason. Players take 5-10 times as many swings in the cages and in batting practice as they’ll take in the actual game.
During the actual game, the at-bats are relatively brief, and if you somehow think that Manny is exerting or focusing less for those 4-5 encounters of 90 seconds in each game … well, that’s just nuts. If he wasn’t focused and exerting, he couldn’t do anything at the plate. Nobody could.
oh my god the Rays are last in the league in doubles? casey blake could hit 5th for them. (longoria should be hitting 4th)
by Gradyforpresident on Jul 11, 2008 7:13 PM EDT reply actions
24 pitches isn’t awesome, but 3 K’s is pretty cool.
by DontCallMeJoey on Jul 11, 2008 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Jhonny
One day I'll get over to watch the Tribe play
by new zealand tribe fan on Jul 11, 2008 7:25 PM EDT reply actions
i personally guarantee that the indians will pick up the remainder of casey blake’s salary if they trade him
by Gradyforpresident on Jul 11, 2008 7:25 PM EDT reply actions
I’m here only for a couple of minutes. Casey, btw, is now in the top 30 in OPS for eligible AL batters. Grady is our only other player in that group (#8). Casey has been a decent offensive contributor this season and now that Garko sucks he’ s not even blocking Marte. Could we lay off him just a little? (ducks).
"Lotta heart in Cleveland." - Ian Hunter
by Denver Tribe Fan on Jul 11, 2008 7:36 PM EDT reply actions
i’m with you. i’ve been saying for a couple of weeks that blake is our most valuable offensive player…clearly that is actually grady, but is there even a close competitor to casey right now? please, be sure to factor in the beard/grit
by DontCallMeJoey on Jul 11, 2008 7:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Any news on Sexson?
Still an Ohio boy through and through!
by TribeLoverInNewYork on Jul 11, 2008 7:44 PM EDT reply actions
BenFran infield single off the glove of Longoria…tough hop back-hander that he couldn’t pick. Jhonny took a low curveball to RF, Gomes misjudged it, and they called it a double. Run Scored
Fausto’s set for a rehab assignment. Ginter to get the start tomorrow. Somebody has to be moved off the 40. Mastny? Maybe try and slip Bullington through waives? Brad Snyder?
So we got one run huh? That’s all the Cliffenator needs. It’s over, chalk this up as another win.
Resident LGT beer kinda sewer
i’m with you. keep jhonny in the fold
by DontCallMeJoey on Jul 11, 2008 8:02 PM EDT up reply actions
it is weird to wonder where the hell his walk rate went
by Gradyforpresident on Jul 11, 2008 8:05 PM EDT up reply actions
and if we trade him, who the hell is going to play 2B
by Gradyforpresident on Jul 11, 2008 8:07 PM EDT up reply actions
oh this is sarcasm … dear god I almost took the bait
by Gradyforpresident on Jul 11, 2008 8:09 PM EDT up reply actions
good value. all i’m saying is if you can get a team excited about him and get equal or better value then do it. he’s not going to be a core piece.
even if he’s not a core piece, it doesn’t mean we should trade him
by Gradyforpresident on Jul 11, 2008 8:10 PM EDT up reply actions
ok let’s take a step back. i didn’t mean to imply that
by Gradyforpresident on Jul 11, 2008 8:12 PM EDT up reply actions
I know. I just want to be clear that I’m not cavalierly begging for the Tribe to start chucking talent.
I just think he’s the kind of guy you can move, for a few valuable prospects, and move forward with Cabrera at SS, find a 2B for next year and make the team stronger.
IF THE RIGHT DEAL CAN BE FOUND
This is the same arguement I would get into before the 08 season. Everyone wanted to shift Peralta to 3b (or ship him out) and I said “Droobs hasn’t proven himself yet”.
He still hasn’t.
So you would go into 09 with two question marks in two positions. That a recipie for disaster.
this isn’t crazy…but droobs needs to find the magic at the plate, and the key is the last night…need a solid deal. i guess, though, you could say that about just about anyone on the roster.
by DontCallMeJoey on Jul 11, 2008 8:21 PM EDT up reply actions
the dodgers are offering that package? i find that doubtful
by Gradyforpresident on Jul 11, 2008 8:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Has there been ANY mention of a Peralta deal? Considering Jhonny’s contract, I think it’s reasonable to expect three prospects. Look what Bedard and Miguel Tejada fetched this offseason.
wait hu doesn’t impress me that much
by Gradyforpresident on Jul 11, 2008 8:14 PM EDT up reply actions
He’s had a blurry vision problem this season that has him disabled right now. It explains his offensive nothingness this year. I don’t know if the issue has been or is being resolved.
i thought hu’s on first…..HIII OHHH! and what’s the deal with airplane food…
seriously, i’m here all week
by DontCallMeJoey on Jul 11, 2008 8:22 PM EDT up reply actions
fly lufthansa and you won’t complain about airline food. or the free alcohol.
by Gradyforpresident on Jul 11, 2008 8:23 PM EDT up reply actions
i should say, free, unlimited alcohol.
by Gradyforpresident on Jul 11, 2008 8:24 PM EDT up reply actions
so they cut you off after two “emergency” bags?
is there a LAX to CLE direct on lufthansa?
by DontCallMeJoey on Jul 11, 2008 8:26 PM EDT up reply actions
i had 5 beers quick like on my 8 hour flight (munich-chicago). and the guy was still asking me if i wanted liquor or wine.
after that i just went to bed
by Gradyforpresident on Jul 11, 2008 8:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Never beat Aloha from Johnston Island to Hono. In two hours I could chug 8-9 shots and half a dozen beers – no charge!!
Resident LGT beer kinda sewer
David Boon Aussie cricketer holds the record on a flight between Australia and London, 50 cans of beer
One day I'll get over to watch the Tribe play
by new zealand tribe fan on Jul 11, 2008 8:34 PM EDT up reply actions
and certainly not his 2007 numbers, but have you checked out the guy’s career numbers?
A defensive difference-maker who can hit a bit? Sounds like some guy named Asdrubal that I know.
That was my way not-so-clear way of saying “No, the Dodgers aren’t offering that.” But an AAA shortstop, and AA starting pitcher, and a MLB reliever iaren’t untouchable pieces. I didn’t mean to suggest that as a package. Just as players with value the Indians might like. I think the Indians could get two of those guys for Peralta.
The thing for me is Jhonny JUST turned 26. The guy could actually still hit for more power in his next few years. That would be awesome.
yeah i was gonna say that good point
by Gradyforpresident on Jul 11, 2008 8:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Barry Bonds
Resident LGT beer kinda sewer
by mauichuck on Jul 11, 2008 8:12 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah JHonny
One day I'll get over to watch the Tribe play
by new zealand tribe fan on Jul 11, 2008 8:00 PM EDT reply actions
i don’t care if grey goose is the world’s best tasting vodka. it’s still vodka. gah.
by Gradyforpresident on Jul 11, 2008 8:01 PM EDT reply actions
sweet sweet grey goose…eases the pain
by DontCallMeJoey on Jul 11, 2008 8:06 PM EDT up reply actions
god i can’t wait to go get a burger and beers
by Gradyforpresident on Jul 11, 2008 8:17 PM EDT reply actions
i wouldn’t drink for 6 months if andy marte hit .265/335/.475 next year
by Gradyforpresident on Jul 11, 2008 8:21 PM EDT reply actions
ooooooooooooo mommy – the old man swore
Dear Mr. Sabean, I hear you have a reputation of being stupid. Want to deal Lincecum or Cain? You can pick THREE of these 4 players for either: Borowski, Dellucci, Blake, Byrd.
Carl Crawford is still trying to figure out if that was a slider or a four seamer!
Resident LGT beer kinda sewer
Hammy:
“Gomes is a detriment in right field”
Dear Mr. Sabean, I hear you have a reputation of being stupid. Want to deal Lincecum or Cain? You can pick THREE of these 4 players for either: Borowski, Dellucci, Blake, Byrd.
“Detriments, are we? Detriments? Well, it’s detriments like us who built this empire!”
by fleerdon on Jul 11, 2008 8:34 PM EDT up reply actions
While we’re talking about trading guys in the right deal, if some team wants Ben Francisco to start in Left Field for them, please, let’s make them happy.
as long as we’re talking deals…lets send dellucci out for a large thin crust from geraci’s
by DontCallMeJoey on Jul 11, 2008 8:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Benfran
One day I'll get over to watch the Tribe play
by new zealand tribe fan on Jul 11, 2008 8:37 PM EDT reply actions
Right now I’m in Pine Bluff Arkansas, home of the Upton brothers, Torii Hunter. Cliff’s from Brenton, right down the road. Rick Ankiel from somewhere around here too. Pretty amazing.
Resident LGT beer kinda sewer
VX, GB (soman) and Mustard – the usual. They don’t make them anymore, but they do incenerate them. We’re down to just mustard now. Should be all gone by 2011.
Resident LGT beer kinda sewer
Actually ConAir is on right now. The Rock was laughable. Blue nerve agent in little clear plastic balls. Acually the stuff looks like motor oil and tastes like chlorox,
Resident LGT beer kinda sewer
Not a very good tactical weapon, after all if you can deliver chemicals you can deliver HE. It’s good for an area denial weapon, kinda like mines, but not much good against well protected troops. It slows everybody down – since ya gotta wear the protective gear. Your troops included.
Resident LGT beer kinda sewer
Ugh, Dave. That AB was weaker than Analyze That.
by fleerdon on Jul 11, 2008 8:59 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s tough. He kind of looks like a 1960s Ian McKellen. I don’t think I’d say that to his face.
by fleerdon on Jul 11, 2008 9:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Is that guy trying to make a right angle with his fingers?
by supermarioelia on Jul 11, 2008 11:35 PM EDT up reply actions
sorry, you’re going to have to explain that some more for me…
by DontCallMeJoey on Jul 11, 2008 9:40 PM EDT up reply actions
more magic from clifton the magnificent; hot bats from peralta and francisco; raffy p showed up out of nowhere for 2 innings of shutdown. that pretty much does it
by DontCallMeJoey on Jul 11, 2008 9:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Pretty epic minor league manager meltdown:
http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/up/player/popup/?rn=207187&cl=8772054&ch=207399&src=sports
how long you think that guy had the take-both-shoes-off-and-spike-them routine in the back pocket?
by DontCallMeJoey on Jul 11, 2008 9:46 PM EDT up reply actions
that’s the best real name i’ve heard since “hunt ramsbottom”...i’m serious, met him like a month ago. i was in awe
by DontCallMeJoey on Jul 11, 2008 9:50 PM EDT up reply actions
His last AB he was a little pull happy. Crushed one foul, weakly tapped one foul (that was pitched on the outside), then got handcuffed on an inside pitch and struck out.
Flipped his bat down in disgust.
were we lead to believe that he had good plate discipline? too lazy to look up the minor league stats on a friday evening, but i feel like he’s never walked in the bigs, and strikes out A LOT
by DontCallMeJoey on Jul 11, 2008 9:57 PM EDT up reply actions
He works the count well, but I don’t think I’ve ever seen him take 2-0. I don’t think he’s thinking walk, but he’s not swinging wildly either. I think he tries to get into a hitter’s count and then look for something he can drive.
Looks like he’s had a 2-0 count 61 times, and he’s had a 3-0 count only 10 times. That tells us he’s taken at least 10 times in that situation, but it’s hard to say how many — we don’t have the data for how many of his 2-1 counts came from a called strike on the third pitch.
Andy apparently seems to do well when he hits the ball fair on 2-0 — 6-for-17 with two 2B and 1 HR, slugging .657. But his OPS is only 801 for all PA in which he got to 2-0 — 10 strikeouts and only 11 walks — and that’s not great.
My boyz just called me from the Jake. There in row H right behind the Indians dugout – drunk on their asses. I’m jealous.
Resident LGT beer kinda sewer
If they were true working class “boyz” they’d be drunk OFF their asses.
by NickFantana on Jul 14, 2008 10:57 PM EDT up reply actions
aren’t mastny situations turning into the diametrical opposite of save situations? like mastny should only pitch when we’re up 11 runs in the 9th and have no chance of losing?
by DontCallMeJoey on Jul 11, 2008 9:58 PM EDT up reply actions
diametrical? i believe i also mean diametric…
by DontCallMeJoey on Jul 11, 2008 9:59 PM EDT up reply actions
winning, losing. it doesn’t matter
Is that a quote from my favorite moviem “Conan the Barbarian”?
Resident LGT beer kinda sewer
Brick has seen Conan the Librarian, but not Conan the Barbarian.
-Erik
by drerikbrady on Jul 11, 2008 10:04 PM EDT up reply actions
shortly after his ERA cruises in under 5
by DontCallMeJoey on Jul 11, 2008 10:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Oooh, I’m getting time machined here.
-Erik
by drerikbrady on Jul 11, 2008 10:05 PM EDT up reply actions
They were saying on WFAN the other day that Mariano Rivera was going to start and pitch one inning.
Still an Ohio boy through and through!
by TribeLoverInNewYork on Jul 11, 2008 10:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Ballgame, a streak
One day I'll get over to watch the Tribe play
by new zealand tribe fan on Jul 11, 2008 10:06 PM EDT reply actions
how many starts do we think cliff has left? not that it makes any difference, but it’d be cool to see a whole assload of wins out of him, which of course make a huge difference in post-season awards…a small silver lining to the year
by DontCallMeJoey on Jul 11, 2008 10:13 PM EDT reply actions
Last two games have been a blast. I know the Rays are slumping pretty hard but hopefully our guys can go out there like this every night and just have fun and compete.
and did anyone mention LaPorta hitting his first home run as a member of the Cleveland Indians’ system? I’m sure someone did but it’s just exciting.
I love winning and all, but when do we start thinking about limiting Perez’s innings?
by supermarioelia on Jul 11, 2008 11:38 PM EDT reply actions
After the game, it was announced that Slocum was being demoted to make room for Matt Ginter on the Indians 25-man roster.
Not sure on the 40-man roster move. Could somebody such as Elarton be moved from the 15-day to 60-day DL?
Was at the game last night – my boss and this other contractor we work with. They bought dinner and everything at the winking lizard before hand. Our seats sucked – nose bleeds on the first base side – but the game was awesome, Lee is a beast, and Peralta truly is an XBH machine. I had to do a lot of rumor control, such as “no we actually shouldn’t have signed Kenny,” “no, Marte might not suck,” and of course, “slugging-percentage matters.”
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