Game Thread: July 13, 2008
by Ryan on Jul 13, 2008 12:30 PM EDT
in Game Threads
462 comments
Tampa Bay Rays at Cleveland Indians, Jul 13, 2008 1:05 PM EDT
Tampa Bay at Cleveland, 1:05 PM (WKYC)
The Indians can't win this matchup, right?
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i’m sort of surprised jay hasn’t forced a “official trever crowe apologist” signature on you
by Gradyforpresident on Jul 13, 2008 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions
i’m going to go ahead and say that carroll probably shouldn’t be batting 2nd
by Gradyforpresident on Jul 13, 2008 1:17 PM EDT reply actions
Jeremy Sowers is a guy you want to like, but I feel the hate flowing through me every time he pitches.
Words do not do justice to my hatred for Boston sports teams.
by FaustosSinkingFastball on Jul 13, 2008 1:24 PM EDT reply actions
No…2008 Jordan Brown sucks. He’s like 2006 Ryan Garko. 2009 Jordan Brown will be like 2007 Ryan Garko.
Jordan Brown is the kind of prospect that I know sucks, then IndiansFan writes 10,000 words about him and I almost start to think he’s worth following.
And then I snap out of it 6 months later and realize he sucks.
by afh4 on Jul 13, 2008 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
gomes is just going big time on the base paths
by Gradyforpresident on Jul 13, 2008 1:31 PM EDT reply actions
Martin’s in his 8th pro season. I think he’s on a 1-year minor league deal. I don’t think we have any exclusive rights to him.
Actually, that’s not true. Unless they’re released, minor leaguers don’t get to be free agents until after the Rule 5 draft.
So it’s like:
1. Season ends.
2. Team can add him to 40-man roster with full rights (6-9 years).
3. If he’s not added or released, he can be selected in the Rule 5 draft by another team.
4. If he’s not added, released or selected in the Rule 5, he becomes a free agent.
Every minor league deal comes with the right to convert to a major-league contract — which is synonymous with adding to the 40-man. And once you do that, whatever his existing option and service time status is, that’s his new major league status. In Martin’s case, that would mean three remaining options and no service time.
What happened?
Words do not do justice to my hatred for Boston sports teams.
by FaustosSinkingFastball on Jul 13, 2008 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions
DId he shove his armpit in the ump’s face?
Words do not do justice to my hatred for Boston sports teams.
by FaustosSinkingFastball on Jul 13, 2008 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions
was complaining about balls/strikes i think
by Gradyforpresident on Jul 13, 2008 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions
this is totally wedge. it really is.
by Gradyforpresident on Jul 13, 2008 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions
hammy says “laz diaz will now work the plate and first base”
by Gradyforpresident on Jul 13, 2008 1:34 PM EDT reply actions
The implosion begins now. To quote the Joker from the upcoming Dark Knight, “And here…we….go!”
Words do not do justice to my hatred for Boston sports teams.
by FaustosSinkingFastball on Jul 13, 2008 1:35 PM EDT reply actions
That would require the grit that only comes with a manly beard.
Words do not do justice to my hatred for Boston sports teams.
by FaustosSinkingFastball on Jul 13, 2008 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I did. And you can imagine how annoying it was to realize that neither LaPorta nor Hodges were there.
Saw Rodriguez play some nice 2B, though — turned the DP pivot with no sign that it was something new for him. Led off the game with a first-pitch home run, too! Toregas looks like a real hitter at the plate — which is really confusing.
I agree, I thought for a while he was supposed to be a Paul Byrd-like pitcher who uses almost exclusively breaking balls, but now he seems to have upped his velocity.
Words do not do justice to my hatred for Boston sports teams.
by FaustosSinkingFastball on Jul 13, 2008 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions
He never regained the control he had 2nd half of 06.
Words do not do justice to my hatred for Boston sports teams.
by FaustosSinkingFastball on Jul 13, 2008 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Not in the majors. I don’t think he could have been so good in Buffalo this year without control.
The difference between his AAA and MLB performance this season just screams “head thing” to me. I mean, he doesn’t have to be really good in the majors, but there’s no reason he should actually SUCK. Obviously he doesn’t have much margin for error with his skill set.
I’m personally ready to watch him be crappy for another month or two. If he can be crappy for six more weeks and then just have one good month to end the season, then maybe we’ve still got something here. Still has an option left, too.
But isn’t the same thing likely to happen again, namely, we’ll demote him and he’ll play well, get promoted, and suck?
Words do not do justice to my hatred for Boston sports teams.
by FaustosSinkingFastball on Jul 13, 2008 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, seems likely although not definite. I’ve been saying for awhile, whatever Sowers’ problems are, it’s hard to see what he has left to accomplish in Triple-A. Maybe they can tell him they don’t want him back until he figures out how to have 7.5 K/9 in Triple-A, some set of pitches to give him a fighting chance up here.
But I keep coming back to his big-league debut in 2006, and his Triple-A numbers in 2006 and 2008. And I keep thinking that if he can do all that — pitching well above big-league average in fact and in translation for almost 1.5 seasons — then he must be able to be a 4th/5th starter. I just don’t see how he can do what he’s done if he doesn’t have that physical capability.
I guess so, yeah. They are basically the same age, Marte is five months younger, but pitchers are more finished products in terms of pure stuff at a younger age — some say 23. The other key difference is that Marte was playing through injuries at 23 and basically hasn’t played for most of his age-24 season — Sowers, signing out of colllege, has option years clear through age 26, unlike Marte, whose last option was used at 23, meaning only that Sowers has more time to work things out in the minors.
I don’t think more big-league time will get him over his head case symptoms, he could just not be someone who will ever make it in the big time. Besides, with laffey and miller developing, will we need him?
Words do not do justice to my hatred for Boston sports teams.
by FaustosSinkingFastball on Jul 13, 2008 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes — we need him to replace Byrd. The guy has a perfect health record, he’s young and cheap. We do not have great depth of starters going into 2009, and I don’t think we should expect to get more than 20 starts out of Miller and Huff, and nobody else really looks close. Of course it could be 40, but we can’t expect more than 20 — and it could be less.
Just throwing out some numbers here … 30 starts out of Lee, 25 out of Carmona, 30 out of Laffey, 15 out of Westbrook. That’s only 100, meaning that unless we sign a free agent, we should expect to have to find 60-70 starts out of Sowers, Huff, Miller, Ginter, whoever. Having said that, if we don’t see a truly stirring second half from a couple of those guys, we should expect the Indians to sign a free agent.
Regarding headcase southpaw pitchers: Cliff Lee seemed to figure it out this year. Sowers’ stuff isn’t bad. He throws 92. He has a good curveball. His location has abandoned him, but this does seem to be mental. He seems to nibble and not pitch to contact (sensible for a guy that’s already given up ten homers).
Scott Campbell, New Zealand born prospect, found out about baseball when his ad saw an advertisement in the newspaper.
What does that mean?
Only once a week when the boat delivers it
One day I'll get over to watch the Tribe play
by new zealand tribe fan on Jul 13, 2008 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions
You sound like a disappointed parent.
Words do not do justice to my hatred for Boston sports teams.
by FaustosSinkingFastball on Jul 13, 2008 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Lofgren and Sowers could’ve once been packaged for the world.
by afh4 on Jul 13, 2008 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Can and will.
Words do not do justice to my hatred for Boston sports teams.
by FaustosSinkingFastball on Jul 13, 2008 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions
No, he won’t. Sowers’ inability to get batters’ out is the root of his problems. If he was normally awesome then maybe you’d have an argument.
But “this mess” is actually his whole season, his whole last two seasons in the majors and he’s responsible.
The only reason I can’t blame him is that he doesn’t have the physical tools to succeed.
His velocity is better than it has been in a long time, but it isn’t enough to make up for being incredibly hittable.
Words do not do justice to my hatred for Boston sports teams.
by FaustosSinkingFastball on Jul 13, 2008 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions
He has been getting squeezed, not giving up base hits and HRs today. Hardly his fault.
LGT's resident beer connaisseur.
I am not supporting his whole season, but today he isn’t getting any help.
LGT's resident beer connaisseur.
Dear Mr. Sabean, I hear you have a reputation of being stupid. Want to deal Lincecum or Cain? You can pick THREE of these 4 players for either: Borowski, Dellucci, Blake, Byrd.
How I feel this summer watching this team:
Words do not do justice to my hatred for Boston sports teams.
by FaustosSinkingFastball on Jul 13, 2008 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions
what? hammy’s a homer? i thought he was pretty non-biased
by Gradyforpresident on Jul 13, 2008 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions
I’ve seen other fans get annoyed that he gets super excited for everything the Tribe does, and then is rather demure when announcing other teams plays.
That’s just what they say.
I’ve heard Hammy get excited many times when an opposing team has a home run or a great play.
by Buckeye Brad on Jul 13, 2008 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions
I can’t wait to make Jay eat Crowe
/I feel dirty
by APV on Jul 13, 2008 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Could I convince you that he has been getting squeezed (slightly) and his velocity on his fastball is good?
Hey, let me ask you guys something. Wedge or somebody was talking about the Big Talk from a few days ago — you know, the first one all year — and about dealing with C.C.’s departure from the clubhouse. And I could swear that somebody said something to the effect of, we’re not expecting anything else to happen. And I thought, could they really be saying no more trades? That can’t be right, can it? Did anyone else pick this up?
This is the most impossilber season ever.
Words do not do justice to my hatred for Boston sports teams.
by FaustosSinkingFastball on Jul 13, 2008 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Isn’t Blake’s value about as high as it will ever get?
Words do not do justice to my hatred for Boston sports teams.
by FaustosSinkingFastball on Jul 13, 2008 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions
if he doesn’t it’s a total dereliction of duty
by Gradyforpresident on Jul 13, 2008 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
this would be mind boggling. it’s almost a lock to be able to get something of value for casey.
by Gradyforpresident on Jul 13, 2008 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions
seriously?
Dear Mr. Sabean, I hear you have a reputation of being stupid. Want to deal Lincecum or Cain? You can pick THREE of these 4 players for either: Borowski, Dellucci, Blake, Byrd.
wow – and to think i preferred this guy over Laporta. didn’t know that defense nonsense.
Dear Mr. Sabean, I hear you have a reputation of being stupid. Want to deal Lincecum or Cain? You can pick THREE of these 4 players for either: Borowski, Dellucci, Blake, Byrd.
I bet Sal Fasano has starred in a few midget porns.
Words do not do justice to my hatred for Boston sports teams.
by FaustosSinkingFastball on Jul 13, 2008 2:01 PM EDT reply actions
He’s not that good.
Words do not do justice to my hatred for Boston sports teams.
by FaustosSinkingFastball on Jul 13, 2008 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Kerry Wood? pfft… while we’re wishing, let’s wish for someone that is ACTUALLY good, rather than THEORETICALLY good.
Possible examples: Scott Kazmir, Tim Lincecum, Johan Santana, etc.
Just cuz we were linked to somebody doesn’t mean we should sign them. We were linked to Jeff Weaver, but there’s no way we would sign someone that bad….OH WAIT! WE SIGNED F-ING JEFF WEAVER!
Words do not do justice to my hatred for Boston sports teams.
by FaustosSinkingFastball on Jul 13, 2008 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions
This is about the dozenth comment I’ve seen various people make about how insane it is to sign Jeff Weaver. In a season where there’s nothing else to complain about, sure. But should any minor league FA signing ever matter this much to illicit a response? Ever? I’m pretty sure there is nothing important enough to get upset about.
If it was a Carlos Silva contract, fine.
Steel Nick
I think most of the comments — on this site — are meant to be comical or absurdist, not serious complaints.
It’s not like the old days with Danny Graves. Folks here know what a minor league signing is, and Weaver’s not on the big-league roster, and we’re not contending.
Umps squeezed him there.
Words do not do justice to my hatred for Boston sports teams.
by FaustosSinkingFastball on Jul 13, 2008 2:03 PM EDT reply actions
Maybe he could chase 40 HR and 140K.
Words do not do justice to my hatred for Boston sports teams.
by FaustosSinkingFastball on Jul 13, 2008 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions
But isn’t there something undignified with becoming HR leader by striking out as much as Richie sexon?
Words do not do justice to my hatred for Boston sports teams.
by FaustosSinkingFastball on Jul 13, 2008 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions
I hate strike outs more than anything in the world, and I’m a hateful person.
Words do not do justice to my hatred for Boston sports teams.
by FaustosSinkingFastball on Jul 13, 2008 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Sexson has K’ed once every 4.27 PA.
Sizemore is at 5.11 for his career, 5.97 this season.
Also, has a career OBP of .370, not .344.
Also, is a Gold Glove CF.
Also, steals about 30 bases per season, not 1.
There is nothing wrong with the kind of HR leader that Grady is. He’s an excellent all-around hitter and player.
by Jay on Jul 13, 2008 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I’m not criticizing Grady as a complete player, I’m just worried that maybe his quest for more home runs is causing him to be less selective at the plate.
Words do not do justice to my hatred for Boston sports teams.
by FaustosSinkingFastball on Jul 13, 2008 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions
his walk rate is up and his k rate is down
by Gradyforpresident on Jul 13, 2008 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions
correction, his walk rate is slightly down from last year, but his bb:k rate is up
by Gradyforpresident on Jul 13, 2008 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions
My apologies. I just don’t like seeing Richie Sexson and Grady on K lists on sportscenter.
Words do not do justice to my hatred for Boston sports teams.
by FaustosSinkingFastball on Jul 13, 2008 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions
I’ll tell you something crazy, I think Carroll is very much in our plans for 2009, continuing as something more than a backup. Plus defender with OBP over .350, and cheap — why the hell not?
how you going to make up for those 20-25 home runs?
by Gradyforpresident on Jul 13, 2008 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions
AbaCab will save 20-25 home runs with his defense.
by Jay on Jul 13, 2008 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
i mean, he’ll be 35. but yeah we have no other options, unless Abacab hits
by Gradyforpresident on Jul 13, 2008 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m not saying with great expectations, I’m just saying he’s a very nice player for us to have on a cheap, one-year deal.
if blake isn’t traded, i’d put $100 on him resigning with us
by Gradyforpresident on Jul 13, 2008 2:18 PM EDT reply actions
it’s like he’s just trying to figure out how to harness his vastly improved fastball
by Gradyforpresident on Jul 13, 2008 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Had the same thought. Sowers’ start seems like Spring Training, he’s trying out some new stuff, sticking with the plan regardless of how it goes.
andrew would hate me for all the visions i’m having of jeremy sowers 2009 right now
by Gradyforpresident on Jul 13, 2008 2:37 PM EDT reply actions
Laporta looks like Brian Giles. Hodges had a weak grounder. Hector Rondon is tall and skinny and has a sort of funny arm action.
I wonder how long it will be before they have to change the format, i.e., before the USA squad is totally overmatched by the World squad.
You could say the same thing about the All-Star Game format, i.e. before the NL squad is totally overmatched by the AL squad. 10 in a row is really something.
by Buckeye Brad on Jul 13, 2008 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions
But that’s going to naturally shift and correct over a period of years.
As the sport develops, however, we’re going to see more and more top-level talent on the World side, which is drawing on a population 20 times larger than the USA.
But baseball is America’s game….we can’t let the foreigners take it over!!!
Seriously, I know the AL isn’t going to dominate forever. But it’s been doing it for a while. Didn’t the NL win something like 15 in a row in the 70s?
by Buckeye Brad on Jul 13, 2008 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions
More than that, I think.
The NL will eventually get back to even, but at this moment, it’s a little hard to see how that happens without some economic re-alignment. The higher level of competition starts in the front office, with big payroll budgets and super-sharp minds. The AL has had a big lead in both categories, and the lower-level teams have all had to catch up. You don’t see any AL teams giving a GM job to some nice evaluator from the Twins. That’s why there’s more on-field talent in the AL at this point, and while the brains will catch up, I don’t see when the money will.
Rob Neyer was writing about that, how the AL is more dominant not only because of the Yankees and Red Sox but that the rest of the league is better because teams must be smarter to compete with them. This drives up the competition and make the whole league better.
He compared it to why the NL was dominant in the 60s and 70s—because of integration. The Dodgers and Giants took the lead in signing black players and that forced the rest of the NL to follow. The AL lagged behind and that caused them to be less competative for many years.
by Buckeye Brad on Jul 13, 2008 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s not just the Yankees and Red Sox, it’s the A’s, too — and for all three teams, really starting ten years ago. The bar is just higher. Only the Central has been an NL-style division, where you can win without necessarily being rich or a genius, and aside from this year, that too has started to disappear.
Yeah, I forgot to mention them. I believe Neyer’s quote was something like “the A’s with their brains, the Yankees with their money, and the Red Sox with their deadly combination of both.”
And in the Central, like you said, the Tigers and White Sox have both started spending like they’re in the East.
by Buckeye Brad on Jul 13, 2008 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions
ah man i wanted to see one more inning out of sowers
by Gradyforpresident on Jul 13, 2008 2:42 PM EDT reply actions
Just woke up, wow two games in a row with an unexpected score line
One day I'll get over to watch the Tribe play
by new zealand tribe fan on Jul 13, 2008 2:49 PM EDT reply actions
Wow, long time since I’ve posted here (four years of to-do list accumulation getting serious attention since graduation, oh, and the Tribe has been depressing), but props to everybody for keeping this place a great read.
Sowers to me seems like a complete rebuild, first with the arm strength (check), now they’re working on command, and next they’ll work on off-speed separation. If they can get the command, he’s a decent 4 or 5, but if they can put all three together, he could be as good or better than 2006. It’s certainly worth a shot, as Jay mentioned with the need for starts in 2009, and with the potential we’ve seen. It’s frustrating now, but the glass is at least half full.
JHonny!!!!!!!!!!
One day I'll get over to watch the Tribe play
by new zealand tribe fan on Jul 13, 2008 2:57 PM EDT reply actions
Too many catchers to list > Varitek, All-Star AL C
by Buckeye Brad on Jul 13, 2008 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions
CC got a standing O in Milwaukee for his home run. it was actually really cool. and i almost teared up.
by Gradyforpresident on Jul 13, 2008 3:12 PM EDT reply actions
HOLY CC LASERBEAM
Dear Mr. Sabean, I hear you have a reputation of being stupid. Want to deal Lincecum or Cain? You can pick THREE of these 4 players for either: Borowski, Dellucci, Blake, Byrd.
i wonder when mario’s gonna see this
by Gradyforpresident on Jul 13, 2008 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions
i’m gonna watch this Marte HR highlight 30 times when it gets put up
by Gradyforpresident on Jul 13, 2008 3:16 PM EDT reply actions
this could be like the biggest big picture game of the year
by Gradyforpresident on Jul 13, 2008 3:17 PM EDT reply actions
Marte!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sorry was showering and shaving at the time, f@#% missed it
One day I'll get over to watch the Tribe play
by new zealand tribe fan on Jul 13, 2008 3:22 PM EDT reply actions
We are at the make-up sex stage.
LGT's resident beer connaisseur.
by LGT Patrick on Jul 13, 2008 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
That’s a great point. It will probably take him awhile to get back to 100%, even when he does come back.
That’s the sad thing. If he could even put up numbers like Carroll is, I would be ecstatic. That’s pretty sad.
I think I like Fasano so much, because he looks like my favorite ball player of all-time, Steve Balboni.
Ballgame
One day I'll get over to watch the Tribe play
by new zealand tribe fan on Jul 13, 2008 4:03 PM EDT reply actions
I do fully expect this team to go on a streak of 35 to 40 baseball games. Yessir.
by fleerdon on Jul 13, 2008 7:20 PM EDT up reply actions
z
Doesn’t it figure that we can’t help out ourselves (by beating in-division rivals), but we can help out those damned Red Sox?
Oh, well .. I like watching wins.
I’m gonna listen to the Brewers game. CC up 3rd this inning
by Gradyforpresident on Jul 13, 2008 4:13 PM EDT reply actions
Look at that textbook form. No wonder his control is so good.
by Toxicadam on Jul 13, 2008 4:23 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Just got back from the game. WOW. This is nuts. More, please.
Also! Andy. F. Marte.
--
2008: let the hate flow through you.
The Brewers and their fans would like to thank you folks for CC…
He struck out the side in the top of the ninth, threw 120+ pitches, and the Brewers got him the win with a walkoff in the bottom of the ninth 3-2.
And neck size to baby eating ratio.
I friggin can’t believe I missed it. Frig. Is it just me or do not many home runs get hit to where Andy hit his?
I’ve gotta agree with what was said above, that this was maybe the biggest big picture game of the season. Just great things all around.
And Jay, you frightened me above when you talked about us being done with trades. This little streak doesn’t mean that the FO thinks we’re alive again, does it? TRADE. THE. BEARD.
It’s like we’re just waiting for him to be bad at baseball again.
by fleerdon on Jul 13, 2008 7:13 PM EDT up reply actions
I think actually that Jhonny hits a fair number to around that spot — and obviously it has to be a fairly massive shot in order to get over that part of the fence. They’re pretty similar hitters, or at least, they will be if it turns out that Marte can hit a little.
Similar in terms of power and development, but I thought the raves about Marte were for discipline? At least the raves in 2005?
by fleerdon on Jul 13, 2008 7:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah I was going to say Jhonny is the only other Indian I can remember hitting one there. Pretty sure Josh Hamilton might’ve hit both of his in June in a similar place.
by supermarioelia on Jul 13, 2008 9:49 PM EDT up reply actions
The Indians have 12 comeback wins. At this time last year, they already had 27 comeback wins. (Posted on Friday)
So I was at the Pirates-Cards game Saturday night. It is some sort of sick world where Jason Michaels hits a walk-off home run. I didn’t even know he could hit it that far.
Also, I still think you guys that want Jhonny traded are insane. I’d be okay with it only if we got a mega haul in return.
This comment made me want to look at the homer a couple more times, so I headed to mlb.com and lemme tell ya:
The only thing worse than Jim Donovan live is Jim Donovan’s “home run call” when you already know the result.
Dear Mr. Sabean, I hear you have a reputation of being stupid. Want to deal Lincecum or Cain? You can pick THREE of these 4 players for either: Borowski, Dellucci, Blake, Byrd.
I don’t like him in football either. “He cuts left, back the other way. He cuts, down the sideline, cuts, touchdown!”
Grady leads the AL in home runs, by the way..what the heck is he doing batting leadoff?!
Seriously, though, who would have thought he’d be leading the league at the half? I, for one, love it.
You have no idea the physical toll that three vasectomies have on a person
For serious, I’ll tell you what he’s doing batting leadoff: Leading the league in home runs.
by fleerdon on Jul 14, 2008 9:32 AM EDT up reply actions
I think I heard Shapiro speak about this a few months ago. Mark said Grady is a natural fit for the number three spot, and could easily see him moving there later in his career. However, the Tribe doesn’t have anyone else that is a good leadoff candidate and he is currently more interested in getting Grady the most number of at-bats possible. Hence, the decision to lead him as the lead-off guy.
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