Slate Piece About Defense, Jeter-hating, Sabermetrics, etc.

Talks about the "Jeter-still-plays-bad-D" phenomenon and the state of defensive statistics and how they will be used in the future. It's pretty intelligent, worth a read.

4 months ago joeee Comment 37 comments 0 recs |

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There’s a better chance that long-deceased Hall of Fame second baseman Nap Lajoie will catch for the Arizona Diamondbacks than that Joe Morgan will cite Jeter’s probabilistic model of range stats when explaining how a play unfolded.

I’d certainly hope that the Corpse of Nap Lajoie would come back to play second at Progressive Field before heading to the desert.

by FredOx on Jul 14, 2008 12:14 PM EDT 0 recs

Would he play like Ronnie Belliard? Or Hector Luna? Prop him up deep in the grass.

by odradek on Jul 14, 2008 6:14 PM EDT up 0 recs

One of the most annoying parts of Steve Phillips commentary during the Futures Game was his commentary on his scouts evaluate a players defense. He was talking about a shortstop and essentially said a scout looks at a player and says to himself, “how does this guy compare to Derek Jeter?” (using Jeter as the model of an average, 50 on a 20-80 scale, defensive shortstop).

by APV on Jul 14, 2008 12:30 PM EDT 0 recs

there’s a reason why The Silver One is now in the booth instead of a major league front office

Aside from Peter Gammons and couple of guys that write for espn.com (Jayson Stark, Rob Neyer and sometimes Keith Law … although he gets dwarfed by the likes of BA and BP during draft day), they have some really ignorant people working there (I guess Erin Andrews also falls under that category, but there’s just something about a hot girl talking baseball).

by JP_Frost on Jul 14, 2008 1:24 PM EDT up 0 recs

I don’t see what Jayson Stark has to offer in the way of knowledge or insight.

He writes cute things.

by Jay on Jul 14, 2008 1:33 PM EDT up 0 recs

is he really that bad? Maybe I’m confusing him with someone else, but I’ve read some of his articles that were atleast a whole lot better than what Buster Olney and Jerry Crasnick write.

by JP_Frost on Jul 14, 2008 1:44 PM EDT up 0 recs

I’ll be honest, I can’t remember the last time he wrote something that was interesting rather than just an oddity. He does a lot less reporting than Olney or Crasnick, and none of it seems astute.

I mean, where is Jayson Stark article that’s good? Which one is it?

by Jay on Jul 14, 2008 2:43 PM EDT up 0 recs

Philadelphia Inquirer during the 1980 season?

by odradek on Jul 14, 2008 6:21 PM EDT up 0 recs

I don’t think he goes quite that far back, but I don’t know. 1993 maybe.

by Jay on Jul 15, 2008 10:31 AM EDT up 0 recs

He started in 1979. He’s not as good as Bill Conlin, in my opinion, but he was fun back in the days of Dallas Green.

by odradek on Jul 15, 2008 3:34 PM EDT up 0 recs

As much as this makes me hate myself for defending Steve Phillips, he was only talking about Jeter’s throwing arm when he used the scouting model. He was just speaking about infield arms, and in that respect he was just about right. Jeter used to have a pretty good arm but he’s probably aged into a 50. The other examples he used were Eckstein, who I think we would all rate a 20, and Furcal as an 80, who has an absolute cannon for an arm. Living in Atl I’ve gotten a chance to watch Furcal a few times before the game uncork and it was a sight to be seen.

On another note listening to him and Gary Thorne made my ears bleed during that game. Where the hell was Keith Law?

by ATLTribefan on Jul 14, 2008 1:27 PM EDT up 0 recs

True enough. But I couldn’t help but gag (for several reasons) at the notion that what a scout does when evaluating a player is ask himself how this guy compares to Jeter. Ugh.

by APV on Jul 14, 2008 1:29 PM EDT up 0 recs

On that, we’re in agreement. With Billy Packer getting the boot today, I have hope that eventually the Joe Morgan’s of the world are replaced with people who know the difference between their subjective opinion and objective facts. And won’t be ashamed to say that Jeter sucks as a defender.

by ATLTribefan on Jul 14, 2008 1:53 PM EDT up 0 recs

Joe Morgan is really good when he’s talking about playing the game – what the players are thinking about on the field, little details that most fans don’t know. But when he’s talking about other things – managerial strategies, or (shudder) running a baseball organization, he’s awful.

btw, has anyone seen Chris Singleton on BBTN? He’s really impressive, especially compared to the likes of Fernando Vina.

by Ryan on Jul 14, 2008 2:04 PM EDT up 0 recs

Or Eduardo Perez … didn’t we get some kind of flashy 22-year old shortstop for him ;)

by JP_Frost on Jul 14, 2008 2:36 PM EDT up 0 recs

yeah Singleton is good to watch. I usually feel bad for Fernando Vina when he’s on there. Never a clear and concise sentence.

by ASP on Jul 14, 2008 2:49 PM EDT up 0 recs

Yeah, from what I’ve seen of Singleton so far he’s pretty good, which of course stands out on that set. He’s very well-spoken and seems knowledgable.

by Buckeye Brad on Jul 14, 2008 2:52 PM EDT up 0 recs

I agree, Singleton (analysis) and Olney (reporting) were actually watchable. I can’t remember the last time I watched BBTN and didn’t come away with a headache before that.

by Pronk33 on Jul 14, 2008 6:54 PM EDT up 0 recs

It’s the Hawk Harrelson rebound effect.

by ganatz on Jul 14, 2008 6:54 PM EDT up 0 recs

Make that Ed Farmer. (They all suck.)

by ganatz on Jul 14, 2008 7:07 PM EDT up 0 recs

Wow, best part of this is the quotes in that NY Post article about Jeter sucking at fielding.

It’s like they were going for pure, pristine, unintentional comedy. And they succeeded:

New Yorkers scoffed at the notion.

“I don’t know what they’re smoking down at Penn,” said Yankees fan Mike

Birch, 32. “That’s preposterous. I completely disagree. Jeter’s a clutch player.”

“It’s ridiculous,” said fan Jay Ricker, 22. “Jeter is all-around awesome. He’s better than A-Rod any day. Character has a lot to do with it. He’s out there for his teammates, not just himself. He does it for the good of the team. That’s the kind of guy you want on the field.”

by tabler84 on Jul 14, 2008 3:03 PM EDT 0 recs

I hope the Yankees continue to field a lineup based on clutchiness and character rather than talent. But not Grit, they can’t have our Grit.

by FredOx on Jul 14, 2008 4:04 PM EDT up 0 recs

This got FJMed, didn’t it?

by Voltaire on Jul 14, 2008 5:14 PM EDT up 0 recs

I’ll confess I don’t know what FJM means, Volt.

by tabler84 on Jul 14, 2008 5:29 PM EDT up 0 recs

fire joe morgan

by Brick. on Jul 14, 2008 5:38 PM EDT up 0 recs

Yeah, we’ve discussed this before. It still makes me giggle though.

Tabs, do you think they actually report those quotes or does an intern just call his buddy?

by NickFantana on Jul 14, 2008 10:39 PM EDT up 0 recs

Well, it would be endlessly easy to make that stuff up. But I’m glad to say I don’t know guys who do it. It’s pretty easy for me to believe that a reporter could find a mile-long line of fans to say things like that.

by tabler84 on Jul 14, 2008 10:43 PM EDT up 0 recs

I know, but I guess I’m wondering where you go to do that reporting. A sports bar? Hollister? Johnny McDouchebag’s Douche-porium?

by NickFantana on Jul 15, 2008 10:27 AM EDT up 0 recs

Any guy on any street in NYC.

by Jay on Jul 15, 2008 10:31 AM EDT up 0 recs

You don’t even need to ask them. They tell you anyway.

by odradek on Jul 15, 2008 3:35 PM EDT up 0 recs

He’s out there for his teammates, not just himself. He does it for the good of the team.

This always bugs me a little. Hasn’t Jeter had a history of being rather un-captain-esque in regards to A-Rod? You know, a teammate?

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on Jul 14, 2008 6:59 PM EDT up 0 recs

I regard the Jeter-Rodriguez saga in about the same way I imagine Bricker regards his given name, or perhaps in the way Ryan must regard his Facebook account.

by fleerdon on Jul 15, 2008 9:59 AM EDT up 0 recs

Awesome?

by NickFantana on Jul 15, 2008 10:26 AM EDT up 0 recs

more like “i know it’s there, but don’t pay much attention to it”

by Brick. on Jul 15, 2008 10:52 AM EDT up 0 recs

You know, with a surname like that, your parents could have dubbed you Bear Trap and it might not have stuck.

by fleerdon on Jul 15, 2008 11:56 AM EDT up 0 recs

teachers, coaches, professors, colleagues, bosses, friends’ parents, girlfriends, you name it – pretty much everyone called/calls me by some variation of my last name. my parents were even good enough that when someone called for any of me or my brothers, asking for “Bricker” they knew which one most of the time. they gave up asking "which one?" early on with three sons. my wife didn’t know my first name till the second time we went out becuase i was introduced to her as my last name. she never understood it and worried that people would refer to her that way when she changed her name.

by Brick. on Jul 15, 2008 1:25 PM EDT up 0 recs

Possibly my most favoritest thing I ever wrote:

It’s hard to figure out what Jeter does the worst at these days, between hitting in the clutch, supporting A-Rod and playing shortstop. He’s so bad at all three.

by Jay on Jul 15, 2008 10:33 AM EDT up 0 recs