with Marte playing, Fausto coming soon, and Asdrubal back in the fold, the second half will be a lot more fun to watch.

Cool. I’m ready to get excited again, now that the season is “over”.

It’s hard to not be happy with what Cabrera did in Buffalo. But it’d be nice if his BB:K ratio came back in line with his past performance at some point.

rec’d cuz I love Drubal.

Maybe now they’ll finally trade that bum Peralta.

so what’s up with barfield? why did i think he’d be back by now?

This buffalo chicken salad I made is crazy good.

Byrd, Blake, and Peralta to the Dodgers for LaRoche. Asdrubal to short. Sign Mark Ellis to a 2 year/$12 million deal.

A man can dream, right?

Just realized. First game Cabrera will play? AT SEATTLE. Ouch.

Here’s hoping Eduardo Perez does the highlights on BBTN.

I just want to point out w/r/t all the LaRoche talk that he was putting up those AAA offensive numbers in Las Vegas, which while not as extreme a hitting environment as some other PCL parks, still boosts offense quite a bit.

But if my understanding of league factors is correct (which it probably isn’t), you need to ratchet down those numbers by about 8% to compare them to the IL. So that 307/409/541 line mentioned above becomes roughly 280/375/500. Still very good, just not quite as eye-popping.

Something seems wrong here. Jhonny Peralta is currently tied for 62nd among all major league position players (out of 862 players) for VORP. Despite a pretty lousy first half, he is already one of the best hitters in the AL at shortstop. Just because he doesn’t hit like Robin Yount doesn’t mean he is a mediocre player or even a mediocre hitter. He is a very good hitter. He’s a 26-year-old shortstop that costs the Tribe $2.5 million. It’s not like he’s Mark Ellis’ age or salary. Why would anyone even think about messing with that? Because it doesn’t look like he exerts himself?

An effort to save whatever shred of dignity and respect I have in these parts:

1) Andy Marte may not be a bust, but just because he’s younger than LaRoche does not mean that they are equivalent. LaRoche dominated triple-A in his age 22, 23, and 24 seasons (even adjusting for his home park), while Marte struggled in triple-A in his age 22 and 23 seasons (especially against righties). They are the same age, but LaRoche has exceeded Marte in performance, especially in the last three years.

2) Jhonny Peralta is a good player. I am not trying to deny that. What I am saying is that the Indians get the most out of their roster by dealing him to another team that will use him as a shortstop, and then inserting Asdrubal Cabrera at shortstop. I believe that the offensive downgrade from Peralta to Cabrera is made up for by the defensive upgrade. Thus, shortstop is a wash (although Cabrera is younger and potentially has room for offensive growth). Therefore, at worst, we don’t get worse at shortstop, but we improve our team by adding the value that we receive for Peralta.

3) OBP is the starting point, not the end point – I agree. Jay’s comment was in reference to my statement that “A .330 career OBP only has a lot of value if it comes with a capable up-the-middle glove.” Jay missed my point here. I was arguing that Jhonny’s .330 OBP (and above-average power) is excellent at shortstop. But it would be far less excellent if we were to move him to third base (or DH). I wasn’t arguing that Peralta’s career line wouldn’t play as a shortstop – far from it. However, Peralta’s defense may necessitate a move away from shortstop in the next couple of years. Teams can tolerate Michael Young’s defense because his offense is so good; Peralta is unlikely to hit so well that his poor defense will be irrelevant.

4) Here is the average runs created, per season (dating back to 2004) for current MLB shortstops:
Ramirez – 103.3
Young – 102.2
Jeter – 100.6
Rollins – 98.2
Reyes – 96.75
Tejada – 91.4
Tulowitzki – 89 (I’m not counting this year due to his injuries)
Furcal – 80.6 (including this season, in which he has been hurt)
Renteria – 73.4
Peralta – 72.5
Cabrera – 65.4
Lugo – 65.4
Eckstein – 63.4
Hardy – 48

Keep in mind that if I had included Peralta’s 2003 season, he would look worse on this list. Also, this is purely an offensive stat, which doesn’t take quality of defense into consideration.

That is 14 current MLB shortstops, each of whom is likely to play the position again next year. Tejada and Jeter are past their primes (but still awfully good), and Renteria, Cabrera and Lugo don’t look great for the future. However, Hardy is a lot better than the numbers give him credit for, and the jury is out on such players as Christian Guzman, Ryan Theriot, and Jeff Keppinger.

Jhonny Peralta has been an above average offensive shortstop over the last five years, but not an elite offensive shortstop. And these numbers do, however, include his 2005 season, which I do not think he will ever match again. Peralta is likely to remain an above-average shortstop, but his career line of .262/.335/.434 is above average only if Peralta remains at shortstop, where his defense is “somewhat below average,” at best.

5) Andy LaRoche did indeed have shoulder surgery, which is what prevented him from winning the Dodgers’s third base job at the beginning of the year. However, it does not appear to have slowed his production, as he posted an excellent line at triple-A (which he should do, considering he’s 24) this season.

6) Third base is hardly a position of organizational depth. Casey Blake may or may not return next season; furthermore, he may or may not be productive (he’s going to be 35 in August). I still have hope for Andy Marte, but he’s running out of time and he’s already out of options. Wes Hodges is an above-average prospect, but not a guy who’s so good that we need to keep a spot open for him. If Hodges develops well, we’ll find a spot for him.

7) The fact that Peralta is our cleanup hitter this year says less about him and more about our pathetic offense. Just because a guy is hitting fourth doesn’t mean he’s a cleanup hitter; if we’re relying on Peralta to hit fourth in the future, our offense is in trouble.

8) As I’ve stated, my original proposition was a “wouldn’t-this-be-nice” involving signing an unlikely deal with Mark Ellis and making an unlikely trade for Andy LaRoche (I admit, the three-for-one I originally proposed was lopsided and rather ridiculous). I was envisioning an infield of LaRoche, Cabrera, Ellis, and whomever, and drooling. But I thought I made it clear that such a scenario is unlikely, at best. This discussion has digressed into one of Peralta and LaRoche’s values, which I find very interesting and informative. Certainly, trading Peralta for LaRoche would open up a void at second base. However, I do think that the upgrade at third base (and the money we’d save from moving Peralta, even though he does have a club-friendly contract) would more than make up for the temporary hole at second base.

Jhonny Peralta is good. But so is Asdrubal Cabrera. Andy LaRoche is scary because he’s “unproven” – even though he’s absolutely raked at every level in his career. Yes, Andy Marte was good too. But Marte’s production dropped after 2005; LaRoche’s has not. Yes, LaRoche is old, but he performed very well at triple-A at age 22, and performed well in double-A at age 21. The Dodgers have not given him a chance to play at the major league level, but he’s no Ryan Goleski, dominating the league because he’s been very old for it. Peralta is signed to a nice contract, with 3 years and $15 million remaining. But Cabrera is under our control through 2013. LaRoche would be under our control through 2013 as well.

For what it’s worth, PECOTA is very high on LaRoche, having projected a .280/.366/.486 line this season (and forecasting additional improvement in the future).

I realize I have little respect or credibility around these parts. I still enjoy discussing this type of thing with everyone here, because I respect nearly everyone who I’ve seen post. You all challenge me and make me think harder, do more research, and sometimes even change my opinion. That’s the purpose of forums like these, and I very much enjoy it.

Go ahead, rip me to pieces, I’m looking forward to it :).

I just want to add that I am with those that think Peralta’s D gets a bad rep. He’ll never be Ozzie Smith or Omar, but I can’t envision upgrading to Asdrubal’s glove will come near making up the difference in offense. Then you factor in that we still do have Asdrubal’s glove only at second base which is not important as SS, but still is nice to have a slick defender at.

JHONNY’S GLOVE DID NOTHING WRONG!!!

Thinking out of the box here… Since SS is a more demading position defensively, and Asdrubal is playing there out of his “natural” position, why not keep Peralta’s bat in the lineup at 2B and insert Asdrubal at SS? Your net result is the same in that one of them is playing out of theur “natural” psoition, but you keep the bat of Peralta in the lineup where it is not devalued (ie, one of the corners)

Has Jhonny ever shown that he can’t play 2B at all? Or is it an issue of an established ML player cannot get bumped from his established position by a rookie?

As an aside, I remember attending a game in ‘97 during the brief Bip Roberts “era” at 2B. Omar was basically playing SS and everything to the left of the 2B bag to cover for Bip’s defensive shortcomings (and letting him know about it). Asdrubal is not as good defensively as Omar, but I can’t believe that Jhonny is as bad as Roberts was.

There is some good stuff in this thread.