Injuries, Movies, Coffee and Gin talk.
• Barfield could be two to three weeks away from returning.
• Victor is about three weeks removed from game activity.
• Fausto Carmona will have his last rehab start at Akron tommorow and is expected back next week.
• Travis Hafner's is at about 65 percent strength, Soloff is "very optimistic."
over 3 years ago
Toxicadam
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Percentages of health are always dubious in my mind, but my God, if Soloff is saying that Hafner is just now at 65%, what was he playing at?
Il faut d'abord durer.
Travis said less than 15% when he was initially diagnosed. Basically said his arm was useless right before he went on the DL. He had problems even doing everyday things like driving, etc.
Exactly. The strength percentage thing is measurable – unlike many other percentage and health issues. And what’s the diagnosis BS? What the hell is he supposed to have? Muscular distrophy? This whole thing just stinks to high heaven.
Resident LGT beer kinda sewer
It really does. If he’s having trouble doing daily tasks, what the hell was he doing near the ballpark? We have this guy signed UNTIL 2012!!! He certainly wasn’t going to miraculously heal while playing every day, just like Vic wasn’t going to. Playing through pain when you’re producing is a risky proposition in itself. Playing through it when you’re struggling and when you’re signed long-term…..well that’s just baffling.
by supermarioelia on Jul 19, 2008 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions
Baffling? I’d go with irresponsible.
-Erik
by drerikbrady on Jul 19, 2008 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions
You know, I do take issue with the idea that the players are being reckless by playing through pain. Everybody who has played a sport, even at the prep level, knows you hurt all the time. Unless you’re a physical therapist, how can you know the difference between a serious injury and one that will go away on its own based on pain? I’ll grant you that in Hafner’s case, it seems as though there may have been some more obvious clues, but I don’t fault players for not wanting to be perceived as whiners.
by fleerdon on Jul 19, 2008 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Then you’ve never been really injured. There’s the “it hurts when I do this injury” and then there’s the “I can’t lift my arm over my shoulder injury”. One’s usually a pain caused swelling or bruising the others can be caused by damaged muscles/tendon/cartlidge/bone. Not all that clear-cut, but when you screw up muscle and connective tissue, you can tell – most of the time.
BTW, I never hurt much when I was 18 and playing baseball – almost never in fact.
Resident LGT beer kinda sewer
Obviously I’m not going to argue medicine with you. I’m not that presumptuous (generally). But your comment doesn’t match my experience, and I wonder whether it would match a professional athlete’s experience either. If an athlete is having loss-of-function pain, then he’s definitely being negligent by not seeking medical attention. And if he’s got a little bruising and refuses to brass it out, then he’s definitely being negligent by not doing what he gets paid to do. But if there weren’t some significant grey area between the two, I think sports medicine would get a lot less shelf space in medical libraries. And that’s really all I’m trying to say.
by fleerdon on Jul 20, 2008 12:28 AM EDT up reply actions
I tried to leave a little wiggle room in my post, because you’re right, it is complicated. But a 50% loss in muscle strength is more than an injury you can play through. In fact I’d be willing to wager that the more Hafner played the more the strength loss increased – another good indicator that he needed to shut down.
For a guy off the streeet – or most non-pro players – the doc would rely on the patients oral history to make a Dx. But for a guy about to sign a $56M contract, he should be MRI’ed from his hair follicles to his toe nails. You don’t risk tens of millions of dollars based on patient history. You want objective evidence – not hear say.
Resident LGT beer kinda sewer
I don’t think it’s an issue so much ith the players as with the training staff. They should have been on top of these things. Did they sign Hafner to a long term deal without a full physical workup?
by ganatz on Jul 19, 2008 8:23 PM EDT up reply actions
We can argue this, but if in fact Hafner’s injury pre-dates his signing, then clearly they didn’t do “a full physical workup”. But of course Hafner’ could have been hurt after the signing. Otherwise, and I’ll leave this to one of our many site lawyers to argue, the Tribe would have grounds to void Hafner’s contract. The Angels had a similar opporunity with Gary Maddux Jr. after he signed a big FA contract and was found to have used PEDs and proceeded to stink.
Resident LGT beer kinda sewer
I’m not a lawyer, but the Players Association would have a field day with this one. You pretty much can’t sue to void the contract unless you never want to sign a player to anything more than one-year contracts. If Hafner’s injury preceded the signing of the contract, you pretty much have to fold it up and put it in your back pocket. Grin and bear it.
Told you in person what I’ll post here again … Hafner’s injuries this season and his struggles last season are not necessarily connected at all. In fact, it doesn’t seem likely — given the specific facts — that they are related more than tangentially.
I’m sincerely interested – what facts are you basing this on?
by ganatz on Jul 21, 2008 12:18 AM EDT up reply actions
And like I told you at the time, I’m not thoroughly convinced that there is no relationship.
The accuracy of the MRI report is highly dependant on which MRIs were performed and who interpreted them. A few years ago an orthopod friend of mine said that the radiologists were batting about .500 with their MRI readings. That is what they reported jibed with what he found when opening up the patient ~50% of the time. When I talked with him a month or so ago he said it was more like 75-80% now. That means that they’re inaccurate more than 20% of the time. Now this is far from a scientific study but I’ll bet that it’s in the ballpark.
As to Soloff – I don’t believe a word outta the man’s mouth. I won’t trust him to treat my gold fishes fungal infection, let alone a multi-million dollar investment.
Resident LGT beer kinda sewer
by mauichuck on Jul 21, 2008 6:53 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I would argue that pain should still be used as a powerful indicator of damage, and should only be played through when there is some sort of finality coming soon, whether it be the end of the season or the end of a career. A player playing through pain with five years left on a contract and while not producing….I don’t get it.
And I would assume that the jobs of the training/medical staff include both rehabbing and assessing. I know sports medicine in general is a field filled with guesswork, but their job is based on making the correct assessment at least some of the time, and we shouldn’t necessarily always give them the benefit of the doubt.
by supermarioelia on Jul 19, 2008 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m not commenting on the medical staff, about which I have even less knowledge than I do about playing sports. And I’m not endorsing playing through pain, which is inarguably dumb at some point. I’m just trying to put myself in the player’s position. Take Shoppach, for example. His shoulder’s been reconstructed; I’ve heard him say that the surgery restored the joint’s functionality, but it more or less always hurts him. If something else went wrong with it, how the heck would he know? And what would he do about it? “Hey, Lonnie, you know how my arm always causes me pain? It’s doing it again.” Dude’s got a job to do, and I suspect that, unless he felt his ability to do that job was genuinely threatened, he’s gonna try to get that job done.
by fleerdon on Jul 20, 2008 12:19 AM EDT up reply actions
Most definitely. But the point is that Shoppach is currently functional, he likely doesn’t feel it getting worse, and he’s been told by medical staff that since he’s already had surgery, there’s little that rest or rehab will do to help him. I’m not sure the same could’ve been said about Vic or Hafner.
by supermarioelia on Jul 20, 2008 12:40 AM EDT up reply actions
I’ve heard the term “frozen shoulder”, which I have no idea what that means other than that it hurts to do anything. and that the shoulder needs to be “thawed” (no, seriously), then have the strength built again.
by The DiaTriber on Jul 18, 2008 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Here ya go: frozen shoulder. It’s an old man’s disease – unless there’s an underlying fracture. This is more BS.
Resident LGT beer kinda sewer
I’m at a loss with all these percentages. 65% of what? 65% of his peak strength? Is 0% the strength of a dead man? The maximum strength of a weak person? If you reach 0% is your arm not recieving blood?
I just don’t get it. If you worked out a lot and had really strong shoulders at one point and now you don’t, are you at 50%? Less?
How could he be living his life at 15%? Could he lift a gallon of milk?
Lonnie Soloff kinda sounds like a hack these days.
by supermarioelia on Jul 18, 2008 8:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Measured against the other shoulder, I think.
by fleerdon on Jul 18, 2008 9:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Pretty straight up. If in April of 2006 Hafner could pronate 80 lbs and today he can pronate 50 lbs. he’s lost 35% of his shoulder muscle strength. Of course they’re gonna measure his lifting ability in other planes and probably report and average.
So yean, if he couldn’t lift anything he’d be at 0%.
Resident LGT beer kinda sewer
This just makes me hold out hope that Hafner might actually be good again next year.
I keep telling myself that if I could stop being so damn irrationally optimistic sometimes, I could avoid all the soul-crushingness of these disappointments :-)
Burn on, big river, burn on...
Actually all of this smoke and mirrors BS just increases my pessimism about Hafner’s comeback. At the start of the year I gave it 10%. It’s down to 2% now.
Resident LGT beer kinda sewer
This just strikes me as a bit of a Negative Nancy, Chuck. First off, define “comeback” – are you looking for a Hafner of 05-’06? To me he just hasn’t been the same since he was injured at the end of the ‘06 season. I’ll give you that there’s a lot of doublespeak and other BS but that doesn’t mean that there’s something going on. The FO is known for saying little if nothing at all, but not outright lying.
I’ll take a Pronk that’s 80% of his peak levels anyday. I hope that he takes his time coming back during this bust of a season. Maybe get him back the last month or so simply to regain some of his timing and swagger. Otherwise just shelve him and let him fully recoup.
Still the local "Barfield Bounces Back Believer" and also has hopes for Gutz. Free Marte.
I’ve not a Negative Nancy about Hafner mj. I’m waaaay past that. I got Jay and Pat Tabler all riled up a coupla months ago when I said that Hafner would either OPS at .900 or greater or .600 or lower – nothing in between – when he got back. I believe that more now than ever.
So here’s my bottom line once again: he’s either washed up – OPS less than .600 or he’s back at about 90% – OPS greater than .900. And I believe that the chances that he plays somewhere in between are vanishingly small.
Resident LGT beer kinda sewer
I told Chuck this in person but probably never posted it here … I eventually came around to Chuck’s view on this. I don’t the chance of an OPS in the 800’s is quite as tiny as Chuck thinks it is, but I now feel that the chance is pretty small.
Hafner seems to have a fundamental physical problem — maybe he has other problems, too, but those would seem to be problems that can be worked through. If he can get past his strength issues, injury, whatever it is, there’s every reason to think he can be a very good hitter again. If he can’t, there’s little reason to think he can be a productive hitter at all.
It’s a lot easier to communicate in person than over these Internet tubes, isn’t it Jay?
I should add that on more than one occasion whenever I thought that a medical condition had been handled this poorly there were extenuating circumstances that I was unaware of that turned out to be critical. Otherwise I’d make it less than 1% that Hafner ever comes back. I don’t give a tinker’s dam what Soloff says, it’s god-awful hard to come back from a 50% reduction in strength at Hafner’s age.
Resident LGT beer kinda sewer
Want to bet that Barfield isn’t back in three weeks? And Victor isn’t back in three weeks?
Indians seem to underestimate time out for injuries. Cf. Westbrook earlier this year.
Guys, just a quick reminder … please don’t post links to the CastroTurf homepage. They go out of date within a day, sometimes within an hour.
If you want to FanShot the current top item there, click on the headline of that item, and you’ll be taken to a page with just that article. Use that page’s address for the FanShot link.
jay did not have to fix my link for the asdrubal announcement. i just want everyone to know that in case they think guys means everyone. i take my linking very seriously.
i don’t get it. i hate cream and sugar in coffee. is there something “not black” about dunkin’ donuts coffee when you order it black?
I don’t know. I’m just saying, every time I’ve ordered a coffee at DD, or seen one ordered, the staff just dumped cream and sugar in it without asking.
And isn’t all the coffee there flavored, like, snickerdoodle or something?
I’m joshing. The reason fast food places try to add your cream and sugar for you has nothing to do with service, of course. It’s about reducing liability. If an employee burns herself on a spilled cup of coffee, there’s a lot less lawsuit potential than if a customer does it. And since black-coffee drinkers are the minority, employees are probably trained to add cream and sugar unless the customer makes a point of ordering it black.
For what it’s worth, my experience has generally been that DD is a decent straight-ahead brew, but I’m a Tim Horton’s man. DD at least know what Starbucks and the other big chains apparently don’t, which is that the way to keep coffee fresh is to make more. Those big carafes make everything taste like asphalt to me.
Thank you for causing me to look up the word “snickerdoodle.”
by fleerdon on Jul 21, 2008 9:25 AM EDT up reply actions
People who put cream and sugar in coffee don’t like coffee. They like cream and sugar. Black is simply the natural order of things. Not that cream in coffee can’t serve a purpose, it just doesn’t make it taste better:
Sure, and there’s a tremendous amount of difference between the brew originally prepared in Ethiopia and later in Turkey and the Arabian peninsula and the weak stuff you find at Dunkin Donuts. Cream may be appropriate in the former (originally, the Ethiopians didn’t even roast the beans; they just boiled the berries) but I stand by my principle that it is sacrilege in the latter.
I have two guiding principles – nothing but beans and water in coffee and nothing but ice in bourbon.
From the History of Coffee:
1668: Coffee replaces beer as New York’s City’s favorite breakfast drink.
I never take myself seriously, but there’s no way to know that on the Internets. I’m just in a bad mood today.
Ice in bourbon? Have you no diginity at all?
by ganatz on Jul 21, 2008 12:16 AM EDT up reply actions
There’s a new puppy in the house. I have nothing but poop around here.
It’s almost 100 in Richmond today, so yeah I put ice in the bourbon. Drink it fast enough, and you won’t dilute it. Plus, diluted Booker’s is still better than most of the stuff on the shelf at the local government-run liquortorium. I miss Liquor Barn.
The missus hails from Louisville, so I know the joys of Liquor barn. The only place I like better is the original Sam’s wine here in Chicago.
I guess if you’re drinking outside, ice would be ok. But my inlaws would give you a funny look unless you drink bourbon neat. The only exception would be a julep around Derby time.
I’m not going to quibble much, tho, with a fellow bourbon lover. It is truly the greatest drink.
by ganatz on Jul 21, 2008 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions
‘Attaway, Brick. Gin, black coffee…man after my own heart.
by fleerdon on Jul 19, 2008 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
it’s weird with me about gin though. the more i grow to like it, the more i’m affraid i like it too much and allow myself to get it less.
Well, you know. Spend your love on women, and your money on booze, not the other way around.
by fleerdon on Jul 20, 2008 12:37 AM EDT up reply actions
Well, Paul, you’re not supposed to drink them together. Necessarily.
by fleerdon on Jul 21, 2008 9:26 AM EDT up reply actions
No, there’s generally about an 8-hour lapse for my palate from the time the last drop of Bombay Sapphire (lay off on me with the Boodles, I got the Blue Bottle as a gift that I’m still enjoying) to the first drop of coffee.
by The DiaTriber on Jul 21, 2008 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions
Sapph is okay. It’s a little too jazzed up for my tastes, but I prefer both the Bombay varieties to Beefeaters, particularly in cocktails. What I haven’t been able to get behind are the extra-mild upscale brands like Plymouth. I want my gin to taste like gin, gosh darn it.
Saving up to try Hendricks, though. So we’ll see.
by fleerdon on Jul 21, 2008 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions
I used to drink a LOT of gin, but it would have to be the kind that came in a plastic jug in case it fell off of my bike rack in transit (a lesson I learned the hard way). I guess that meant that I’d usually buy Seagrams. Does this mean that I really like gin, or that I don’t like gin at all?
To the extent that I know anything, I think Seagram’s is drinkable. If you need to make 30 G&Ts, that’s the direction I’d be looking in.
by fleerdon on Jul 21, 2008 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m with you on the Plymouth.
Sapphire or Boodles (hat tip to you) are my preferences on ice with a few of the vermouth-soaked olives.
by The DiaTriber on Jul 21, 2008 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m with you. I prefer the cleaner finish of the non-Sapphire. Gin isn’t supposed to be all frilly, it’s supposed to be goddam GIN!
So what gin is currently sitting at arm’s reach in the Levin liquor cabinet?
by The DiaTriber on Jul 22, 2008 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions
After doing some legwork to find out about Hendricks, I’m working off the last of the Sapphire tonight with my eye on some Hendricks.
by The DiaTriber on Jul 21, 2008 10:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Hendricks is excellent. I’ve put a large dent into my first bottle this week.
My favorite summer drink of all time, however:
1.5 oz of decent blanco Tequila (Patron is good, esp on sale. I also like Herradura and Tesoro Platinum)
1.0 oz of not too sweet orange liqueur (Patron Orange is best, Cointreau works also. NOT triple sec – too sweet.)
.5 oz of fresh lime juice.
That’s it.
Add together with ice in a cocktail shaker and shake until frost forms on the outside of the shaker. Strain into an optionally salt-rimmed glass. It is truly excellent and reaffirms my faith in living. I find that many cocktails are simply not worth the time and effort to prepare. This, however, is. The recipe also doubles and triples nicely for those special occasions.
by ganatz on Jul 22, 2008 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions
I need to get in on this gin snobbery. I loves me some gins. My friends deride me because they think it tastes like a Christmas tree.
Burn on, big river, burn on...
by Turkmenbashi on Jul 22, 2008 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions
Pffft – gin! You need to be wearin’ a dress and a pair of Jimmy Cho pumps to drink that crap! Gimme a cheap Bourbon in a dirty glass and a short beer to wash it down – twenty or thirty of those and you won’t know if you’re skating or flying backwards!!
Resident LGT beer kinda sewer
Sure! The Famous Grouse is my go-to. Highland Park, The Macallan, Glenmorangie if somebody else is paying.
by fleerdon on Jul 22, 2008 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions
I love scotch plenty. Drink it all the time, have a couple of fine bottles at home. But it’s gin season right now.
I heartily agree with the concept of alcohol seasons.
Fair warning to the world (obviously excluding Jay): if I hear you order a Blue Moon between September 30 and June 1, I punch you.
Just Blue Moon? What about other Wheats?
by Gradyforpresident on Jul 22, 2008 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions
First, define the holidays. On holidays, other beverages are available only upon special dispensation:
New Year’s, sports title celebrations and weddings get champagne.
March 17 – green beer
First Saturday in May – Mint Julep (otherwise a waste of perfectly fine bourbon)
May 5 – Mexican beer
July 4 – PBR
Christmas – egg nog or mulled wine
Now define the exclusionary rules. Fruity ales are available only during the summer. Same for wheat beer. Beer containing pumpkin is available only in October and November.
Gin and/or vodka season begins May 1 and runs through the end of September. The winter months are for scotch and tequila. In the spring, you may add flavored vodkas or rum. My family’s from Kentucky, so it’s always bourbon season.
There are two drinking seasons. Christmas Ale Season and The Rest of the Year.
by Brick. on Jul 22, 2008 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Winner.
Burn on, big river, burn on...
by Turkmenbashi on Jul 23, 2008 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions
I actually can enjoy some wheat beers year-round. I think the “summer-only” criterion is only true for those with a strong citrus flavor. A nice Hoegaarden, with a nice spicy/clove taste, can be great in the Fall or Winter.
I’m not strict about the seasons but I do believe in them, and I have no particular corrections to make.
The bar at my brother’s wedding last month featured mint juleps and a nice selection of three Great Lakes brews on tap, and little if anything else. It was great.
Between this and the brisket cookout you mentioned earlier, I gotta find a way into the family. Any single cousins or sisters that you’d like to introduce to a jobless parents-basement-dweller?
by NickFantana on Jul 25, 2008 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions
Tempting, but the current generation is pretty much married off, plus my generation was just a ton of boys on both sides, only a couple of girls. So unless you’d like to meet my cousin Jim, divorced dude in his 40’s, I think you’re SOL. He’s a great guy, though.
My younger cousins are minors and, frankly, already way out of your league.
That’s just not true, Chuck. Jimmy Cho’s work very well with casual wear if you accessorize properly.
by fleerdon on Jul 22, 2008 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions
The last time I felt so outta place was when I accidently walked into a gay bar.
Are you sure you guys are from Cleveland?
Resident LGT beer kinda sewer
When I’m not drinking gin, I’m all High Life.
by The DiaTriber on Jul 22, 2008 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I tried to rally the troops for a Toronto trip this year, but it doesn’t look to be in the cards.
by The DiaTriber on Jul 23, 2008 7:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Never had gin…over here a G&T is something drunk by old women…so have always steered clear, although I am tempted by all the talk here.
Normally a Scotch or Jack man myself
by Luis (Tribe Fan in London) on Jul 23, 2008 3:56 AM EDT up reply actions
What do you drink it with then? Neat?
by Luis (Tribe Fan in London) on Jul 24, 2008 5:26 AM EDT up reply actions
Rocks. Maybe a splash of tonic or ginger ale.
Depends on whether it’s a serious session or not. If I have time to sit and savor, I will enjoy one on the rocks. If it’s more of a raucous social setting, I will go for the mixer (and downgrade the liquor grade).
interesting, cheers for that…I may try this to see what i’m missing out on
by Luis (Tribe Fan in London) on Jul 25, 2008 8:53 AM EDT up reply actions
My 21st birthday forever ended my short-but-steamy relationship with bourbon/whiskey.
Burn on, big river, burn on...
by Turkmenbashi on Jul 23, 2008 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions
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