It's pretty obvious. If you're looking for an announcement that we're going to start trading guys, you won't get that until we make our first trade. But I think it's fairly obvious at this point.
3 months ago
fleerdon
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By throwing Martinez, Hafner, Carmona, and Westbrook into the same sentence, his words could be interpreted to indicate that none of them will play again this year.
by palcal on Jul 3, 2008 12:36 AM EDT 0 recs
Or maybe it means that he just mentioned them together because they are all injured.
by Ryan on
Jul 3, 2008 12:44 AM EDT
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Maybe they all died?
Or all got an apartment together?
How can we tell what it means, when four guys are mentioned in the same sentence? HOW CAN WE TELL??
by Jay on
Jul 3, 2008 6:48 AM EDT
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Brandon Phillips, Jeremy Guthrie, Jason Davis and Fernando Cabrera are a good example of this.
by NickFantana on
Jul 3, 2008 9:03 AM EDT
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Those four in an apartment together would be a great sitcom. How could the CW network not greenlight that?
by JulioBernazard on
Jul 3, 2008 2:20 PM EDT
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THATS IT! We get our Hafner contract $$ back when he opts for an acting career.
The 2008 Cleveland Indians: Home of the Triple Steal, Unassisted Triple Play, and not a heck of a lot more.
by westbrook on
Jul 3, 2008 4:10 PM EDT
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So who else is going to start checking ESPN/Foxsports/CNNSi/etc. every 15 minutes like a crazy person, now?
by APV on Jul 3, 2008 12:47 AM EDT 0 recs
What??? You haven’t been doing that for the past week?
Yankees and Red Sox - MLB's Axis of Evil
(And ESPN is right in the middle)
by Spidey on
Jul 3, 2008 12:56 AM EDT
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...so you’re saying Hamels is ours??...
The 2008 Cleveland Indians: Home of the Triple Steal, Unassisted Triple Play, and not a heck of a lot more.
by westbrook on
Jul 3, 2008 1:30 AM EDT
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I’ve actually been checking this a lot more than anything else lately. Not much else to hope for right now.
by maledicta on
Jul 3, 2008 1:17 AM EDT
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Wedge:
’’I don’t think Stevens is as far along as Slocum from an experience standpoint, but he’s also performing,’’ Wedge said.
Meh.
by Toxicadam on Jul 3, 2008 1:13 AM EDT 0 recs
Buster Olney is making the radio talkshow circuit saying that Shapiro will provide his wish list of players to interested teams next week; his scouts are beating the bushes as we sit and watch the Tribe implode.
Yankees and Red Sox - MLB's Axis of Evil
(And ESPN is right in the middle)
by Spidey on Jul 3, 2008 1:13 AM EDT 0 recs
Probably the most refreshing thing I’ve heard in a while, bring on the trades.
by Pronk33 on Jul 3, 2008 2:46 AM EDT 0 recs
Re CC: “the Indians’ prospects of signing him were never considered all that strong to begin with.”
That’s a much different tune than the one they were singing last winter.
Resident LGT beer kinda sewer
by mauichuck on Jul 3, 2008 7:06 AM EDT 0 recs
C’mon Chuck. They can play every note and sign every word to Hey Jude and tell you it’s Here Comes the Sun. But you know and I know that it’s Hey Jude.
by tabler84 on
Jul 3, 2008 7:08 AM EDT
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Liike I told Jay this weekend, we only know about 10% of what’s going on and half of that is wrong.
Resident LGT beer kinda sewer
by mauichuck on
Jul 3, 2008 7:23 AM EDT
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Well, no, this doesn’t line up with that thinking. I agree that we don’t know much of what’s actually happening - certainly not behind the scenes, anyway - but it’s been clear from the start that signing CC is nearly impossible. That’s based on a long history of players approaching free agency on all clubs. It’s also based on our financial status and our long-term goals and needs.
by tabler84 on
Jul 3, 2008 7:27 AM EDT
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See, that’s the steely-eyed realist I was talking about. But I’ll direct you to the tens of thousands of words written here and elsewhere explaining how the Indians were gonna sign CC – some of ‘em coming from the guy who authored the quote I sited.
Here’s some more realism for you: we won’t resign Grady in his FA year, or Lee either. We may have a shot at Victor, but only if his production follows the traditional catcher career arc.
You gotta be tough to be an Indians fan. Your heros always collapse or leave. Learn to love it.
Resident LGT beer kinda sewer
by mauichuck on
Jul 3, 2008 7:32 AM EDT
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That’s why I wanted last year to be the year so badly. Eventually, one of these Tribe teams will win a World Series. I’m a character guy, and so last year’s team was, in my mind, the perfect team to win a title. Beating the Yanks, then Red Sox, and winning with a group of guys you really like—on and off the field. It’s pretty lame, I realize. But I don’t want that title with a bunch of bums.
by tabler84 on
Jul 3, 2008 8:41 AM EDT
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Wow – you must have really been conflicted in rooting for the 90s teams with Albert Belle.
Free Andy Marte!
by woodsmeister on
Jul 3, 2008 8:43 AM EDT
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A bit, but I loved the rest of the guys. Those teams were great, but last year would have been the ultimate story.
by tabler84 on
Jul 3, 2008 9:05 AM EDT
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Chuck … everyone’s heroes always collapse or leave.
I think you’re misconstruing the quote in question. I think the writer is saying that observers in general didn’t feel that the Indians’ chances of re-signing Sabathia were ever that good — not that Shapiro had been saying that — and that’s accurate. There was always significant skepticism about it, and even around here, the mood never really rose above cautious optimism. Those old debates we used to have weren’t “he will” vs. “he won’t.” They were “he possibly could” vs. “he absolutely won’t.”
by Jay on
Jul 3, 2008 8:53 AM EDT
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Ya mean like Jeter? or Rivera? Ya think Papelbon or Pedronia are gonna go anywhere? or Pujols? Occasionally I think that some of us forget who we’re rooting for – we’re a middle market team that’s morphing into a small market club. All our potential HoFers will be gone once they hit FA.
And I’m sorry, the way I read many of the CC posts this winter was that we were gonna sign CC the only question was whether he wanted four years with a team option for a fifth or just give him $100M over five and be done with it.
What I’m getting at is just forget about the discussion all together. Have it firmly in mind that Grady and Lee will be gone and avoid expending any energy contimplating how we’ll sign them. Cuz we won’t.
Resident LGT beer kinda sewer
by mauichuck on
Jul 3, 2008 6:37 PM EDT
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Reading the article. my sense was Shapiro was throwing out the four most prominent injuries in a large group of disappointing problems that hobbled the Tribe this year. Hopefully we’ll start off the 2009 season with a legitimate closer and some new bullpen guys generally, and some better performing offensive depth. CC will probably be gone, and we have to replace Byrd too, but Blake is one guy I have come to appreciate in this awful season and hope the Indians can find an economic way to keep. In the meantime we can get to the business of trying out some guys at higher levels in the minors, which is needed.
by MTF on Jul 3, 2008 7:34 AM EDT 0 recs
Whoa whoa, whoa whoa whoa, whoa. I managed to get all of my Casey Blake-related angst out a while back - I LOVE Casey Blake - but this is a new dimension of Blake commentary which I intend to shoot at point-blank range. Take that, dimension.
You have not come to appreciate Casey Blake this season, MTF. We can, and should, appreciate him for his tenacity, for his over-achievingosity, for his flexibility and above all for the fact that he doesn’t whine. But this season? I draw the line there.
You don’t appreciate Casey Blake’s season. And Casey Blake’s season is not, as Steve Buffum recently said, “sneakily good.” This is Casey Blake’s season:
APRIL: .217/.309/.361, .262 BAbip
MAY: .234/.314/.377, .276 BAbip
JUNE: .366/.420/.535, .420 BAbip
Casey was somewhat unlucky but nonetheless dreadful for his first 200 plate appearances. Everybody else was, too, but that doesn’t mean he should get a pass. He sucked. And he had a reasonably good and ridiculously lucky June. This is much closer to sneakily bad than sneakily good.
The man’s 35, MTF. He hasn’t been an acceptable defender at third in years, and he doesn’t hit enough to justify regular ABs anywhere else. I LOVE CASEY BLAKE. But enough is enough. If he has an OPS+ over 100 at the end of the season I will eat my favorite hat.
by fleerdon on
Jul 3, 2008 10:21 AM EDT
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For a sec there I thought you were continually referring to the above poster as a motherf’er. Damn.
by supermarioelia on
Jul 3, 2008 10:24 AM EDT
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I don’t know, you might be eating your hat. So he has had 2 bad months and 1 good month. He has had a OPS+ over 100 3 of the last 4 years, and even at his crappiest, it has been in the high 90’s.
by DaytonDogg on
Jul 3, 2008 8:28 PM EDT
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Wow, just read this on cleveland.com:
“Being stuck here in Detroit, I can only wonder why Shapiro didn’t go after Miguel Cabrera in the off season. This guy is simply a pure hitter and he’s young. Instead we have to endure the pain of watching Andy Marte!! Does a Detroit franchise simply generate more revenue or do the owners lose money every year?”
Okay, I know we make fun of cleveland.com, but is this a parody? I haven’t read their comments sections in a while. This is a joke, right?
by tabler84 on Jul 3, 2008 9:42 AM EDT 0 recs
it’s obvious he’s not paying attention sinec he mentions something about “watching Andy Marte”.
You know Selig? Ombudsman.
by rolub on
Jul 3, 2008 9:57 AM EDT
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The cerimonial first pitch catcher.
"It's hard to win when you don't score." Cliff Lee, 9/28/05.
by Harry Doyle on
Jul 3, 2008 10:08 AM EDT
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“Why didn’t _ go after Miguel Cabrera in the off season… Instead we have to endure the pain of watching _ !!”
We have whole legions of deadbeat fans like this one. At least they’re not endemic to our team.
by jhon on
Jul 3, 2008 9:58 AM EDT
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Please tell me they’re not. I want to believe that Cleveland is far from the only team with an average fan who knows nothing about the game and yet has the confidence to talk like they know everything.
by tabler84 on
Jul 3, 2008 10:04 AM EDT
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I have been telling you that I talk to average fans on the street. This is what I get. It’s frustrating. That’s why this site is such an oasis.
by elsandito on
Jul 3, 2008 10:44 AM EDT
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How about this gem I saw on the Browns forum about Grady Sizemore:
“I disagree…He does NOT have the stats to be an all star outfielder…If you enjoy/watch baseball, .270 is AWFUL for a lead off hitter. Seriously, his swing is aiming for the fences. OBP= .370. Sad part is that Carroll had a higher OBP (of course he had a ridiculous month). There are 10 players with a higher OBP than Grady…I’m not sure if you watch baseball, but you are wrong on so many levels. This is worse than the “Ferry messed up for not signing Baron Davis (even though there is no cap room) thread”
by Roger Dorn on
Jul 3, 2008 11:50 AM EDT
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I’m really bored right now, so I guess I’ll play along with Mr. Cleveland.com Forum Dude (liberal use of punctuation to follow):
“He does NOT have the stats to be an all star outfielder”
Sizemore’s VORP ranking among all MLB players:
2006: 8th, 69.1
2007: 21st, 53.8 (pssht, slacker)
2008: 9th, 36.8
Sizemore’s top comparable through age 22 is Duke Snider, who everyone knows didn’t have the grit you need to be a star outfielder (career 140 OPS+, Hall of Famer).
Oh, and if you were referring to the actual All Star game (the one voted on by fans just like you!), Coco Crisp was leading Sizemore by a few hundred thousand votes earlier this week. Those crazy Boston fans sure are passionate!
“If you enjoy/watch baseball, .270 is AWFUL for a lead off hitter.”
Lead-off hitters for a few contending teams :
J. Ellsbury: .267
J. Damon: .320 (.270 in 2007, .289 career)
J. Rollins: .275 (.277 career)
O. Cabrera: .273
Everyone knows those offenses are absolutely terrible of course, so I guess I’m just cherry-picking.
“There are 10 players with a higher OBP than Grady”
Like, in the American League? Because there are approximately four players on the team with a higher OBP than Grady this season (.372): Choo (.376 OBP, 83 AB), Velandia (.375 OBP, 7 AB), Fasano (.429 OBP, 6 AB), Laffey (.500), and Sowers (.500). Based on this logic, your new leadoff hitter is Sal Fasano. Good luck with that.
Like I said, I was bored. Hooray for LGT.
by Pronk33 on
Jul 3, 2008 4:21 PM EDT
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Especially considering the Tigers had to take on Dontrelle Willis as well. And then gave him that ridiculous extension.
by Cols714 on Jul 3, 2008 10:02 AM EDT 0 recs
Taking on Willis was necessary to get Cabrera. Extending him, on the other hand, before he’d even thrown a pitch for you, was just dirt stupid.
Free Andy Marte!
by woodsmeister on
Jul 3, 2008 10:17 AM EDT
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agreed….what were the FO conversations like leading up to that?
by APV on
Jul 3, 2008 10:27 AM EDT
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Dump Slider. Here’s our new mascot!
"It's hard to win when you don't score." Cliff Lee, 9/28/05.
by Harry Doyle on Jul 3, 2008 10:10 AM EDT 2 recs
Ladies and Gentlemen, I introduce to you the new mascot for the cleveland.com forums.
Free Andy Marte!
by woodsmeister on
Jul 3, 2008 10:15 AM EDT
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Nah, cause the posters there don’t make “obvious” comments. They make idiotic, fringe-lunatic comments. And there’s no mascot for that that I know of.
by tabler84 on
Jul 3, 2008 10:24 AM EDT
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ageed, the common denominator in most posts is, sign Lofton, sign Bonds and cheapskate Dolan.
by shenvalee on
Jul 3, 2008 10:36 AM EDT
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Would this do?
Went for the Red Rider song, but I forgot that it was from the album entitled “As Far As Siam.”
"It's hard to win when you don't score." Cliff Lee, 9/28/05.
by Harry Doyle on
Jul 3, 2008 10:48 AM EDT
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Hrrm. After the holiday, but before the next homestand.
by fleerdon on
Jul 3, 2008 10:23 AM EDT
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If you’re JoBo, do you accept an assignment or do you just hang’em up?
by gte619n on
Jul 3, 2008 10:34 AM EDT
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can’t he turn down an assignment and become a free agent?
by APV on
Jul 3, 2008 10:42 AM EDT
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To sign with who?
I suppose the Newark Bears or the Somerset Patriots could find a place for him, and he’d have a short commute.
"It's hard to win when you don't score." Cliff Lee, 9/28/05.
by Harry Doyle on
Jul 3, 2008 10:45 AM EDT
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hope springs eternal. look at some of the names we’ve signed over the past 4-5 years to minor league deals.
by APV on
Jul 3, 2008 11:00 AM EDT
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I think Harry’s talking about for this season. I can’t see why he wouldn’t sign a minor league deal with some NL team this year, see if he can’t light up Triple-A for a few weeks and sneak onto a postseason roster. I wouldn’t be shocked if he were picked up for a major league job, but I don’t expect him to be.
by Jay on
Jul 3, 2008 12:28 PM EDT
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Why an NL team? Because he has more than his usual 10% chance of getting outs in one slot – the guy pinch hitting for the pitcher?
The 2008 Cleveland Indians: Home of the Triple Steal, Unassisted Triple Play, and not a heck of a lot more.
by westbrook on
Jul 3, 2008 12:34 PM EDT
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Yes, and also because NL lineups in general are also weaker 1-8 than AL lineups.
by Jay on
Jul 3, 2008 3:22 PM EDT
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Don’t the Tribe traditionally announce stuff around 4pm? Somehow, I expect the decision to happen today .. and the announcement tomorrow.
by Toxicadam on Jul 3, 2008 11:24 AM EDT 0 recs
Wedge is quoted in the PD today as saying that the team’s management is going to be meeting today to talk things over. My guess is that they’ll be talking about the next few weeks - who might/should get traded or dumped - but nothing big will happen yet. I kind of doubt that they’ll dump JoBo just yet. Who are they going to call up to replace him with? (Stevens has been a little shaky in his last few outings, and he’s still inexperienced; Slocum is marginal, etc.). I imagine they’ll wait until they’ve sorted out the trade situation. They can always DFA him at any time and, who knows, they might still be able to trade him! If he were blocking an obvious replacement, DFA’ing him now would be logical. But, I don’t think that’s the case.
by peter m on Jul 3, 2008 11:39 AM EDT 0 recs
Would love to be a fly on the wall for that powwow.
by JulioBernazard on
Jul 3, 2008 12:18 PM EDT
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MLB TRADE RUMORS DID NOTHING WRONG!
"A good body with a dull brain is as cheap as life itself."
by Fiddlesticks on Jul 3, 2008 12:02 PM EDT 1 recs
Over / under for a Sabathia-related MLBTRADERUMOR being nearly on the mark?
by jhon on
Jul 3, 2008 12:21 PM EDT
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Is this like Nostradamus being completely correct with all his predictions, if you allow for interpretations?
by Ryan on
Jul 3, 2008 12:24 PM EDT
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I think it’s more like betting every number on the roulette wheel.
by Jay on
Jul 3, 2008 12:29 PM EDT
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Then whining about your journalistic integrity.
Wait.
by fleerdon on
Jul 3, 2008 4:08 PM EDT
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Does anyone think Wedge will be gone after this year? Yeah I know the joke Fire Wedge!, but realistically do you think he comes back?
I don’t know. I don’t think this year is his fault, but I get the feeling that someone has to be held accountable for last place, and you know that Shapiro is going to stay. So I’d be surprised if Wedge is back next year.
by Cols714 on Jul 3, 2008 12:45 PM EDT 0 recs
Shapiro was pretty explicit about this a little while back - I think Kenny Roda asked him if Wedge was in jeopardy, and Shapiro basically said (not in so many words) - stupid question. Unless some kind of conflict exists/develops between Wedge and Shapiro, or unless there’s a player revolt of some kind (and I don’t see any evidence of that at all), my guess is Wedge is back next year. The explanations they’re giving for last place are: injuries, disappointing bullpen, players who didn’t play as projected. If I were Ryan Garko or Franklin Gutierrez, I’d be a lot more worried than Wedge.
by peter m on
Jul 3, 2008 12:54 PM EDT
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TODAY’S CONFERENCE CALL:
SHAPIRO: All right, let’s get started. Where’s Derek?
WEDGE: Well, actually, boss, we haven’t seen him in a couple of weeks. Since Cincinnati, actually.
ANTONETTI: He’s in Kentucky somewhere, we think.
SHAPIRO: Whatever. We can do this without him. First item on the agenda is C.C. What do we think?
WILLIS: We like him, Mark.
WEDGE: Let’s keep him.
SHAPIRO: Can’t afford him, boys. El Cheapo won’t go ten years and $200 mill.
ANTONETTI: What a tightwad.
SHAPIRO: I’ll see if we can trade him to the Yankees with Hafner for nothing.
WEDGE: Great idea! Maybe we can get Cody Ransom.
SHAPIRO: We’ll see. What about Blake?
[Silence]
SHAPIRO: Well, what about him?
WEDGE: Aw, boss, we can’t do that. Who would play third?
ANTONETTI: You let us worry about that.
WEDGE: Come on. Have a heart.
SHAPIRO: Chris, call up Wade and tell him we’ll do it.
WEDGE: That’s just unfair, boss. That’s just low.
ANTONETTI: Times are tough, Eric, times are tough.
SHAPIRO: Okay, let’s see. Borowski?
WILLIS: He drove back to Jersey Tuesday night.
SHAPIRO: That’s all right. See if we can use his locker.
WILLIS: We’ll get the boxes out of there, Mark.
SHAPIRO: Good. Byrd? I’m not getting a lot of action there, to be honest.
WEDGE: What the hell’s the matter with Sowers? He can’t get anybody out. What are we going to do?
WILLIS: Don’t look at me.
by odradek on Jul 3, 2008 1:57 PM EDT 5 recs
INTERCOM: Neal’s on 2, says he’s calling about Jason Bay.
ANTONETTI: Tell him to %$!# off.
by fleerdon on
Jul 3, 2008 4:02 PM EDT
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http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&page=rumblings
Scroll down in the linked article and you’ll see Jason Stark’s “wisdom” on the CC situation.
ALTERNATIVE VERSION OF CONFERENCE CALL, PER JASON STARK
ANTONETTI: So, we’re trading CC to the Brewers right?
WEDGE: No, send him to LA with Jhonny - Furcal’s hurt, so they need a SS. Maybe they’ll take that domino guy who’s been hanging around the clubhouse too?
WILLIS: I’ve been checking the net for rumors. Some guy from Hawaii thinks we should trade him to the Yankees. But, I don’t like the guys in their farm system. Too many soft-tossing lefties for my taste.
SHAPIRO: Guys, guys. I just got back from meeting with CC’s agent. CC likes it here.
ANTONETTI, WEDGE, AND WILLIS (in unison): IN CLEVELAND?
SHAPIRO: Yeah, he says it kind of reminds him of Vallejo - short of money, a little funky.
ANTONETTI: I can’t believe that, Mark. I thought CC wanted to go to a National League team so he could swing the bat more often.
SHAPIRO: No, he got scared by the Wang thing. Plus, Dunn took his bat back.
WILLIS: So, what’s it gonna take to get him signed?
SHAPIRO: He’s gonna give us a hometown discount. If we go five years with him, he’ll take part of his salary in East Coast Custard coupons.
WEDGE: So, if we don’t trade CC, how’re we going to get better? We need to get some guys in here who can hit. And, the bullpen is making me twitch.
SHAPIRO: No problem. I talked to LeBron. Jay-Z’s gonna buy the team, we’ll move it to Brooklyn (Brooklyn, Ohio that is), and we’ll double our player budget for next year. I think I’m going to try to sign Jason Giambi to play first. He’s available, isn’t he?
by peter m on Jul 3, 2008 3:39 PM EDT 0 recs