Game Thread: July 20, 2008
by Ryan on Jul 20, 2008 3:30 PM EDT
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PrintCleveland Indians at Seattle Mariners, Jul 20, 2008 4:10 PM EDT
Cleveland at Seattle, 4:10 PM (STO)
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Scott Lewis pitched well in Akron today (6IP, 6H, 1R, 0BB, 6K). David Huff’s off to a good start in the 2nd game of a doubleheader for Buffalo.
Unfortunately, other teams don’t have Wedge as Manager/GeneralManager. If they did, Looch could hit 2nd every day for someone. And hit .150.
Dear Mr. Sabean, I hear you have a reputation of being stupid. Want to deal Lincecum or Cain? You can pick THREE of these 4 players for either: Borowski, Dellucci, Blake, Byrd.
Anyone have any insight on Huff’s usage? He went 5 today with 1 ER and was pulled after 63 pitches. I recollect him getting pulled in the 5th or 6th generally in AAA but I didn’t see pitch counts.
Thoughts?
I’m at work, just popped in KELLY!!!!!!
One day I'll get over to watch the Tribe play
by new zealand tribe fan on Jul 20, 2008 5:07 PM EDT reply actions
I would say 48 pitches in 5 innings ain’t bad at all.
Words do not do justice to my hatred for Boston sports teams.
by FaustosSinkingFastball on Jul 20, 2008 5:54 PM EDT reply actions
Don’t you hate that they don’t call anything above the belt anymore?
Words do not do justice to my hatred for Boston sports teams.
by FaustosSinkingFastball on Jul 20, 2008 5:56 PM EDT reply actions
Just got here….57 posts in the 7th inning??!
Still an Ohio boy through and through!
by TribeLoverInNewYork on Jul 20, 2008 6:13 PM EDT reply actions
How have you been Mario…long time no talk!
Still an Ohio boy through and through!
by TribeLoverInNewYork on Jul 20, 2008 6:35 PM EDT reply actions
It has been a while….you too busy for LGT these days? haha
by supermarioelia on Jul 20, 2008 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Just a lurker…too depressing following the Tribe although lately they have been somewhat interesting.
Still an Ohio boy through and through!
by TribeLoverInNewYork on Jul 20, 2008 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Ben for the Looch? Wedge is turning into a softy
Still an Ohio boy through and through!
by TribeLoverInNewYork on Jul 20, 2008 6:39 PM EDT reply actions
So this Ryan Garko character….are we pretty close to sending him down to Buffalo for a month at least to get some regular atbats to try and break out of this? It’s been posted here many times that he has an option, so let’s use it gosh darn it.
Agree
Still an Ohio boy through and through!
by TribeLoverInNewYork on Jul 20, 2008 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Might as well give Aubrey a solid month up here so we have a decent idea next spring what the hell we’re doing.
by supermarioelia on Jul 20, 2008 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Man, I used to love watching Garko AB. He would constantly foul pitches off and work the count full. He had the ability to choke up with two strikes and slap one into centerfield when needed. He never looked overmatched.
Now, I can’t stand watching him at the plate. Erratic and constantly pulling on everything. No control of his bat like he used to.
I wish Peralta had an option
Still an Ohio boy through and through!
by TribeLoverInNewYork on Jul 20, 2008 6:47 PM EDT reply actions
To learn how to play third, of course.
Still an Ohio boy through and through!
by TribeLoverInNewYork on Jul 20, 2008 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Hey this Lee guy could be an All Star some day! Nic4e CG for Lee.
Still an Ohio boy through and through!
by TribeLoverInNewYork on Jul 20, 2008 6:50 PM EDT reply actions
*Nice
Still an Ohio boy through and through!
by TribeLoverInNewYork on Jul 20, 2008 6:51 PM EDT up reply actions
In his 4 NDs, he gave up a total of 4 ER, so all 4 could easily have been wins. He did, however, pick up Ws in two consecutive starts at the end of May and beginning of June where he gave up a total of 10 ER. Still, Clifton Phifer is amazing, given where he was a year ago.
If I’m not mistaken, Ducherer (that doesn’t look right – probably bc it isn’t) hasn’t allowed more than 2 ER in a game ALL YEAR.
Dear Mr. Sabean, I hear you have a reputation of being stupid. Want to deal Lincecum or Cain? You can pick THREE of these 4 players for either: Borowski, Dellucci, Blake, Byrd.
Peralta comment
Just thought I’d pass on a funny comment I heard today on the Fox Sports Northwest telecast. There was a play where Willie Bloomquist hits a sharp grounder right at Peralta, and Bloomquist (who is fairly fast) beats out Peralta’s weak-ass throw. My wife, who loves Omar Vizquel and hates Peralta, proceeds to scream “Peralta, you suck!!!!” at the TV for the millionth time. Then Rick Rizz (the Mariners announcer) chimes in with “that looked like a case where Peralta didn’t realize who the runner was”. More like a case where Rizz doesn’t realize who Peralta is.
MLB2PDX!!! (someday...)
by The Cactus Leaguer on Jul 21, 2008 2:58 AM EDT reply actions
I thought Peralta’s arm was his only plus defensive tool.
Obviously, Peralta can’t carry Omar’s glove.
But, in contrast, It’s not that Omar couldn’t carry Peralta’s bat. He literally couldn’t even lift it.
I’ve been told here a ton of times that his arm is a plus tool, but I’ll keep saying that I think it’s below average, and that his range isn’t as bad as people make it out to be. The probably he generally has is that he’ll get to balls, but he’ll be off balance when he gets there and can’t get a powerful throw off thus giving the illusion that he’s slow and has no range.
by supermarioelia on Jul 21, 2008 9:31 AM EDT up reply actions
my theory is that his range sucks, and his arm is good—BUT his arm sometimes looks bad because he’s lazy and only puts as much as he absolutely feels he needs to on each throw.
Dear Mr. Sabean, I hear you have a reputation of being stupid. Want to deal Lincecum or Cain? You can pick THREE of these 4 players for either: Borowski, Dellucci, Blake, Byrd.
Haha so we’re saying the exact opposite thing then. I guess my eye is just telling me different then than the story the stats tell.
by supermarioelia on Jul 21, 2008 6:51 PM EDT up reply actions
It makes little sense to compare Omar to Jhon or to think there’s a SS controversy until Cabrera proves he can hold his own at the plate. A minimum .240 avg would suffice. Even then, it’s only a controversy. Until then, Peralta is really the only option in the Tribe system. If he occasionally boots a ball or his throw arrives late or he can’t get the throw off, know that his bat offsets those drawbacks. Most teams don’t have a Young or a Tejada at SS and Omar isn’t really Omar at the plate anymore. (either is Alomar, Baerga, Lofton or Mesa and if they were, we couldn’t afford all of them)
No, you are actually the one who doesn’t realize who Peralta is. Peralta has no significant defensive problems other than range. Of course, range is very important, but that was not the problem here from your description.
No shortstop in history ever made plays as consistently as Vizquel, who holds the all-time mark in fielding percentage for a shortstop, but Jhonny rates very highly in terms of converting the balls he gets to into outs.
I remember the play. Jhonny took a circuitous route to the ball, had to wait on the hop, and then was forced to throw quickly. He maybe could have come in on the ball—as the Mariners’ announcers suggested—but again he wasn’t balanced enough to make the play the way he wanted to.
Yes, that’s what the Mariners announcers were saying – basically “Hey… it’s Bloomquist… ergo, you should move up on the ball” (he was on the edge of the grass and didn’t take any steps towards the ball IIRC). Although I threw in the little jab about Peralta’s arm (which is debatable), my point was that Peralta didn’t charge the ball because he’s Peralta, not because he didn’t realize that it was Bloomquist at the plate.
IMHO, this was a typical case of a team’s announcers not knowing the players on the opposing team very well… which, as a side note, is actually one of the interesting things for me about listening to XM Radio, MLB.com, Extra Innings, etc… it is interesting to see the perceptions of other team’s announcers about your team. My wife generally hates Peralta, I’m kind of so-so on him (love his bat for a SS but wish that Asdrubal was playing there defensively instead), the opinion in here on Peralta is fairly mixed… but it seems like most opposing team announcers are very high on Peralta.
MLB2PDX!!! (someday...)
by The Cactus Leaguer on Jul 21, 2008 8:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Peralta charges the ball just fine.
See, I hate this sloppy crap. All through 2006 and deep into 2007, we heard the sloppy commentary that Victor was a bad defender, and the only germ of truth in that was that he was bad at controlling the running game in 2006. This is the same nonsense. Jhonny is not a manifestly bad defender by any stretch. He does a very fine job at most of the things a shortstop is supposed to do, he just doesn’t have good range.
And I could care less how you or your wife feel about him. Facts are facts.
His range is well below average, but the thing that drives me nuts is how long he takes to make a throw. It looks to me like he takes longer to make a throw than any other SS in baseball.
Resident LGT beer kinda sewer
And Victor had problems “controlling the running game”. But he worked on his footwork and got better. Doesn’t change the fact – fact – that he only threw out 33 guys on 103 attempts in ‘06. Not awful but not great. He’s doing much better this year. And yeah i know, sometimes – like when Wickman is pitching – even a 22yo Pudge couldn’t throw ‘em all out.
Resident LGT beer kinda sewer
Jay – You made your point. The last paragraph was unnecessary, unless your goal is to run people out of here who don’t post frequently.
MLB2PDX!!! (someday...)
by The Cactus Leaguer on Jul 23, 2008 2:21 AM EDT up reply actions
I don’t want to run anyone out of here, except people who are abusive.
Contrary to what I wrote, I actually am interested in your feelings — but only as your feelings. I was attempting to make a more general point, which is that people too often substitute their own feelings for actual evidence of something. This technique makes up about half of your comments in this thread:
My wife, who loves Omar Vizquel and hates Peralta, proceeds to scream "Peralta, you suck!!!!" at the TV for the millionth time.
Then Rick Rizz (the Mariners announcer) chimes in with "that looked like a case where Peralta didn’t realize who the runner was". More like a case where Rizz doesn’t realize who Peralta is.
my point was that Peralta didn’t charge the ball because he’s Peralta, not because he didn’t realize that it was Bloomquist at the plate.
My wife generally hates Peralta, I’m kind of so-so on him
Without wanting to chase you off, practically every point you attempted to make was backed up by these feelings … rather than actual facts, or even actual opinions! And then you re-stated your feelings, over and over again, as though this would amplify your point! Well, look, my opinion is that that kind of thing is aggravating the first time, and since you didn’t get the hint after your first or second post, a very unsubtle statement seemed to be necessary.
My goal is to run people out of here who aren’t willing to be held accountable by their fellow commenters for (a) saying stupid stuff and (b) annoying people. If you don’t like that attitude, then you must hate the forums on this site something awful, because that’s basically been the approach for going on three years.
The only thing that I repeated was basically “he is what he is.” I backed off about his arm. I wasn’t repeatedly amplifying my opinion regarding his defensive ability… and it’s not a stretch, or stupid or annoying (IMO), to state that there are a wide range of opinions on the subject. If anything, the comments in here support this point.
If you want to debate any element of his defense (range, arm strength, arm accuracy, how long it takes him to wind up to throw, etc.), that’s fine. I’m happy to learn and be corrected when I’m wrong. Wouldn’t surprise me a bit if you are privy to statistics that show Peralta’s defense is superior to what people like me with an untrained, naked eye can see.
But that doesn’t invalidate my initial point (my only point, really… stating that there is a diversity of opinion on Peralta’s defense was simply a side bar as I stated). The way Peralta made that play is the way I’ve always seen him make that type of play… it’s not like he went – “Oh crap! I forgot that was Bloomquist! I should have (charged the ball, wound up to throw faster, thrown it harder, etc.).” Rizz doesn’t see Peralta play often, so he doesn’t realize how Peralta makes, or doesn’t make, that play - this is true regardless of his actual skill level. Opposing announcers do that. Thought that would be interesting to people in here who aren’t stuck watching Fox Sports Northwest like I am, but apparently not (to you, anyway).
Now if you would have told me “I saw that play. Couldn’t believe how slow Peralta was that time. It’s like he thought Edgar Martinez was running to first. Wayyy slower than what I saw him do earlier when he threw out Ichiro”, then I would gladly concede the point, call myself an idiot, and drop it.
MLB2PDX!!! (someday...)
by The Cactus Leaguer on Jul 23, 2008 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions
The way Peralta made that play is the way I’ve always seen him make that type of play… it’s not like he went – "Oh crap! I forgot that was Bloomquist! I should have (charged the ball, wound up to throw faster, thrown it harder, etc.)." Rizz doesn’t see Peralta play often, so he doesn’t realize how Peralta makes, or doesn’t make, that play
I didn’t see it, and I’ve never noticed Peralta making that play poorly — but who knows, maybe if I’d seen it, it would have looked familiar to me. Anyway, this seems like a perfectly good point to be making, based on our own direct observation. Before, your point seemed to be just that Peralta generically sucks — and that your wife hates him — so that no bad play should be considered a surprise. I think possibly it was hard as a reader to differentiate your telling us about your wife’s extreme reaction from your own serious observation about his abilities, as both of those (and the broadcaster’s ignorance) were all sort of mixed in there together.
Anyway … I see you haven’t been chased away, so that’s good.
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