Military Service for Choo?

Cleveland.com has an article today about how Choo is required to serve two years in the South Korean military. I don't know if this has been talked about before on this site, but this is the first time I've heard anything about it. The article says that the deadline for Choo to enter the military is 2010. Choo said that Korean athletes can be excused from military service if they do well in the Olympics, but of course he won't be on the Korean Olympic baseball team because he's playing in Cleveland.

Does this change our hope for Choo to become a possible starting outfielder in the next couple years, even as a platoon player? It doesn't look like he'll be in Cleveland more than two years unless he can work out some type of agreement with the military to serve only in the offseason or something. Has this affected other Korean baseball players, such as Chan Ho Park or Byung-Hyun Kim? It doesn't look like either of their careers were interrupted by military service.

4 months ago Buckeye Brad Comment 61 comments 0 recs |

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It seems almost certain that Choo is going to have to serve. I don’t see any reason to think otherwise.

by afh4 on Jul 24, 2008 12:22 PM EDT 0 recs

From Cleveland.com:

“Posted by tribefanatic on 07/24/08 at 7:49AM

Choo’s may needing to spend 2 years in the Korean military is another blow to an already incompotent front office.

Their knowing and/ or not knowing about this when giving up a starting 1B is unreal. Not that I miss Broussard. “

Is this person serious?

Wedge: [letting go of Casey's hand] I'll never let go, Casey. I promise.

by cclemens31 on Jul 24, 2008 12:23 PM EDT 0 recs

Forget it Jake. It’s cleveland.com.

by Ryan on Jul 24, 2008 12:25 PM EDT up 1 recs

Why not just let him play on the Olympic team then? Makes no sense.

by Joe. on Jul 24, 2008 12:44 PM EDT 0 recs

Even if they had given him leave to play in the Olympics, he’d have to be off the 25-man roster. And because he’s out of options, he’d have to go through waivers.

by Ryan on Jul 24, 2008 12:52 PM EDT up 0 recs

I had heard somewhere that the Korean team would not use players who had reached the American majors. That is probably wrong.

Plus, the waiver issue.

by afh4 on Jul 24, 2008 12:56 PM EDT up 0 recs

They have to get a medal anyway. Matt LaPorta is getting the gold. Weglarz, the silver. And Jose Contreras the Bronze.

by Brick. on Jul 24, 2008 12:59 PM EDT up 0 recs

although, choo is probably doing more for his country by representing it in mlb than he would in the military. perhaps this is the reason that kim and park didn’t face similar military service time interruptions to their career.

if this really was true, i feel like it HAS to have been discussed/noted/realized earlier.

by stickpiano on Jul 24, 2008 12:59 PM EDT 0 recs

Kim and Park were both exempted from military service for winning the gold medal at the 1998 Asian Games.

by FredOx on Jul 24, 2008 1:09 PM EDT up 0 recs

If that is true, who else will be pulling for the South Korean squad come 2009?

by The DiaTriber on Jul 24, 2008 1:14 PM EDT up 0 recs

OK, I was wondering why (it seemed that) they hadn’t served in the military.

You would think that playing in the majors would be more prestigous than winning the Asian Games, which noone outside of Asia pays attention to (and probably not many in Asia). Doesn’t Choo playing in Cleveland help his country, from a public relations standpoint, more than his being a random soldier in their military?

by Buckeye Brad on Jul 24, 2008 1:41 PM EDT up 0 recs

The problem with this is that you’re preaching to the choir, and the choir is not Korea.

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on Jul 24, 2008 3:16 PM EDT up 0 recs

Hi guys. Long time no post.

Castrovince touched on the issue of Choo’s military obligations during Spring Training.

Interestingly, Castrovince reported that:

Some loopholes do exist. For one, Choo could become a U.S. citizen, though he hasn’t seriously entertained that possibility yet.

Perhaps an interruption in Choo’s career is not a foregone conclusion.

by mplswahoo on Jul 24, 2008 1:21 PM EDT 0 recs

I was wondering if he could get out of this by becoming an American citizen, not that he would necessarily want to do that. I’m sure that most of his family is still in South Korea and he probably wants to go back there after his baseball career is over.

by Buckeye Brad on Jul 24, 2008 1:44 PM EDT up 0 recs

can americans not go to south korea?

by Brick. on Jul 24, 2008 1:47 PM EDT up 0 recs

It would probably be considered a cowardly move. Kinda like draft dodging.

by mjschaefer on Jul 24, 2008 1:50 PM EDT up 0 recs

According to my friend who is originally from Seoul, she told me upper-crust Koreans avoid service all the time on various loopholes not related to sports. Most people wouldn’t question a guy who played in the MLB.

by PatBordersHelmet on Jul 24, 2008 2:16 PM EDT up 0 recs

Well she would certainly know more about this than me. Maybe becoming an American citizen could be a legitimate way for Choo to avoid service.

by Buckeye Brad on Jul 24, 2008 2:21 PM EDT up 0 recs

Those kinds of things happened in the past, but not now. Nowadays, there aren’t such loopholes any more.

by victor41 on Jul 24, 2008 2:31 PM EDT up 0 recs

Yeah, that’s what I was getting at. If he becomes an American citizen to avoid military service, that probably wouldn’t be looked upon to happily in his home country. So I don’t know how he (or his family) would be treated there.

by Buckeye Brad on Jul 24, 2008 2:19 PM EDT up 0 recs

i’d be willing to bet if he has a sucessful pro baseball career, his adoration would trump any of that.

by Brick. on Jul 24, 2008 2:26 PM EDT up 0 recs

I would think so, too, but having never lived in Korea and no idea about their culture, I can only guess.

That’s also why I stated above that I would think the Korean government would love to have one of their citizens playing in the majors and would exempt him from military service rather than hinder – and possible ruin – his baseball career.

by Buckeye Brad on Jul 24, 2008 2:36 PM EDT up 0 recs

One thing to note is that Choo haven’t had any chance for the military exemption. Though I’m Korean, I won’t blame him if he gives up Korean nationality. I hope him to succeed as a MLB player.

by victor41 on Jul 24, 2008 2:40 PM EDT up 0 recs

I’ve heard it speculated that for major league players, South Korea would rather just get the tax money from their salaries than to compel military service. In any event, he has until 2010 to work things out with the government, and a wait-and-see approach is probably the smart thing for both parties at this point. If he can get an extension one year at a time, then he probably will be allowed to continue playing in the majors as long as he’s making $1 million or more.

Let me give you an example. Let’s say Choo has a great season in 2009 and looks like a “core player.” Choo, the Indians can work out a deal by which (a) Choo and/or the Indians pay S. Korea a $1 million fee, (b) Choo and the Indians agree to a five-year deal worth a guaranteed $15 million, (c) S. Korea grants Choo a five-year extension on his military service. That way, at some point, he still has to serve two years in the military, but it’s after he’s past his prime as a ballplayer.

What I’m getting at more generally is that when there isn’t a shortage of money (relative to the circumstance), there’s usually something that can be worked out.

South Korea generally is an open society and a democracy, so any reprisals on his family would likely be social in nature, rather than official oppression — I’m just saying, it’s not like it’s Cuba.

Anyway, I’m skeptical that his being out of options is the issue. Remember that the limit on options is intended primarily to (1) protect players from being blocked indefinitely in the minors, and (2) prevent teams from hoarding talent. Since neither is at issue in this case — he’d still be on the 40-man — I would imagine that something like the Restricted List can be used in a circumstance like this.

by Jay on Jul 24, 2008 2:51 PM EDT 0 recs

Typo … didn’t make clear in the second paragraph that the “deal” would have to be worked out among Choo, the Indians and the government of S. Korea. Also, Choo would continue to pay regular taxes on all his income in addition to the lump-sum extension fee.

by Jay on Jul 24, 2008 2:52 PM EDT up 0 recs

Yes, but would a productive 2009 from Choo make it worth giving up Ben Broussard? I read on cleveland.com that it was a bad idea and that the franchise was a joke and I believe everything I read.

I need some pie.

by FredOx on Jul 24, 2008 3:00 PM EDT up 0 recs

How long do the Indians control him, 2010?

by mjschaefer on Jul 24, 2008 3:01 PM EDT up 0 recs

Through 2013. Contractually, he’s a year behind Garko and Gutierrez, more in line with Laffey and Cabrera.

by Jay on Jul 24, 2008 3:27 PM EDT up 0 recs

Is it rare for a player to be out of options five years in advance? Seems kinda strange?

by mjschaefer on Jul 24, 2008 5:36 PM EDT up 0 recs

Sounds like you need a refresher course on managing the clock.

It is conceivable (but not probable) that a player could end up with 0.000 mlb service time AND burn all of his options. All he would have to do is be on the 40 at the beginning of each season for 3 (or 4, depending on when he signed) years and never get called up during the season. After the final option year, he would need to stay on the 25 all year, and then the team would control him for 6 additional seasons before free agency.

by talonk on Jul 24, 2008 5:52 PM EDT up 0 recs

Right.

Anyway, I don’t think it’s rare at all. Gutierrez was in the same situation a year ago. All it means is that during a player’s three option years, he didn’t spend two full seasons in the major leagues. Lots of players don’t even make their debut until they’re in their second option year.

by Jay on Jul 24, 2008 8:36 PM EDT up 0 recs

Choo had .119 days of MLS to begin this season.

Players on the 40-man roster collect service time when on the 60-day DL, so Choo will get a full year of service this year, leaving him with 1.119 days of service. Considering he’s out of options, I’m assuming he spends the entire time in the Majors from here on out. If he were to end up back in Buffalo, it’s because he slumped, was DFA, went unclaimed on waivers, and went back to Buffalo. At that point, he’s not very useful to the Indians (or the 29 other teams that failed to claim him on waivers) and avoiding service is no longer an issue.

Anywho, if we assume he spends full, consecutive seasons on a 40-man roster, he’s under control under 2013. He’s got an outside, slim chance at being a super-two arb player after 2009.

by xrickx on Jul 24, 2008 3:28 PM EDT up 0 recs

Super Two status wouldn’t affect his free agency — not that you said otherwise, but you left it a little ambiguous — and he actually has no chance at it anyway.

by Jay on Jul 24, 2008 3:32 PM EDT up 0 recs

I have to imagine that the main concern for the South Korean military is whether or not he’s past his ass-kicking prime. From what I understand, a soldier’s taking names skill starts to deteriorate first, which leads to higher rates of desertion and eventually causes a decline in the kicking ass ability.

by NickFantana on Jul 24, 2008 4:56 PM EDT up 1 recs

The questions is to properly evaluate his VORS—Value Over Replacement Soldier. According to www.soldier-reference.com, Choo’s VORS is 14.

by Buckeye Brad on Jul 24, 2008 5:15 PM EDT up 1 recs

I’ve heard it speculated that for major league players, South Korea would rather just get the tax money from their salaries than to compel military service. In any event, he has until 2010 to work things out with the government, and a wait-and-see approach is probably the smart thing for both parties at this point. If he can get an extension one year at a time, then he probably will be allowed to continue playing in the majors as long as he’s making $1 million or more.

I don’t know where you got this information, but this is totally wrong.

by victor41 on Jul 24, 2008 5:37 PM EDT up 0 recs

It wasn’t information, it was speculation. You can tell this because I start out by saying: “I’ve heard it speculated …”

If you’ve got hard facts or examples, then let’s have them. Otherwise, I’m sticking to my basic position, which is that the South Korean government probably would rather have the money and the prestige than one more soldier added to their millions.

by Jay on Jul 24, 2008 9:25 PM EDT up 0 recs

There’s an age limit of military service regardless of what he’s doing or how much money he’s making in foreign countries. That is to say, there’s no delaying the military service over the age limt. So if Choo wants to avoid that, he should give up Korean nationality. Money is not an issue as for military service in Korea.

by victor41 on Jul 25, 2008 1:40 AM EDT up 0 recs

I think I misundersood what you said. I’m not good at English.

by victor41 on Jul 25, 2008 1:55 AM EDT up 0 recs

No problem — we have misunderstandings all the time here, even among those who know only English.

Are you actually in South Korea now, or are you from there?

I am skeptical only about the idea that exemptions or extensions are never made. It is rare to find an organization that large that never makes any exceptions. The government has plenty of motivation to find a way to make some kind of special arrangement with Choo, and few reasons not to.

by Jay on Jul 25, 2008 12:33 PM EDT up 0 recs

I’m from Korea, but now I’m in the US for business purpose. I’m going back to Korea soon.

Korean government banned Korean people from having 2 or more nationalities, so if any Korean wants to have another country’s nationality, he or she has to give up Korean nationality. And this law is made because of the people who wants to avoid military service by having another nationality. So I think there’s no chance of settlement between the individual and the government, especially regarding military service. It hasn’t and it won’t.

And also Korean people don’t like the idea of “money can buy anything.” So even if Choo gets the proposed personal exception, it will face lots of people’s opposition.

by victor41 on Jul 25, 2008 5:16 PM EDT up 0 recs

All very interesting. Thank you for sharing your perspective.

by Jay on Jul 25, 2008 5:40 PM EDT up 0 recs

Yes, thank you for sharing this all with us. Your third paragraph gets to what I was saying above, that even if Choo could get an exemption from the military, he may not want to if he plans to live with his family in Korea after his baseball career is over.

by Buckeye Brad on Jul 25, 2008 5:56 PM EDT up 0 recs

i’ve heard it speculated that whereas domiciliaries or persons residing in korea in excess of one year are subject to taxation on income derived from sources both within and outside of korea, a non-resident’s income is taxable only to the extent it is derived from sources within korea. i believe our own code works similarly, though one of the 35 other regular commenters who has taken fed tax more recently than i will have to confirm this.

another option would be to just not go serve in the military. it’s not like they can come over here and make him. though it would make going back to visit a bit complex, i would imagine.

by emil minty on Jul 24, 2008 11:18 PM EDT up 0 recs

From Wiki: There are no alternatives for conscientious objectors15 except imprisonment.

So much for that route…maybe he can be imprisoned in U.S. baseball-styled jails while wearing a Cleveland Indians uniform, you think the South Korean government would go for that?

Wedge: [letting go of Casey's hand] I'll never let go, Casey. I promise.

by cclemens31 on Jul 24, 2008 4:15 PM EDT 0 recs

I read a recent article (from last year) where they are trying to broaden the functions a conscientious objector could perform (like doing work in hospitals and such). Also, they were looking to lessen the service time to 15-18 months instead of the current 24+ months. Which looks like has happened but will be phased in slowly (like 2014).

Not that it would help Choo or his situation. But maybe that’s what he is waiting for. Some momenteous change in policy from the government.

Doing some googling, this wave of Korean entertainers gaining popularity is called “Hallyu”. I have read some reports (on blogs for some artist named “Rain”) that there has been memos passed around the Department of Defense on getting exemptions for entertainers. Is it a change in policy .. or just the faint hope from adolescent asian-phile bloggers? Dunno.

by Toxicadam on Jul 25, 2008 11:24 AM EDT up 0 recs

do you think Choo’s military helmet will be different than everyone else’s too?

by Brick. on Jul 24, 2008 5:44 PM EDT 0 recs

No, but he does get to wield the two-bladed light saber.

by joeee on Jul 24, 2008 7:15 PM EDT up 0 recs

Choo is a Sith?
1. Not so into cheering for him anymore.
2. There is always a master and an apprentice. Where does Choo fall?

by bewwolv on Jul 24, 2008 10:25 PM EDT up 0 recs

Oh, I get it now. His helmet looks like it’s too big for his head!

by PatBordersHelmet on Jul 24, 2008 10:44 PM EDT up 0 recs

Uhh. I don’t know if you’re serious or not but I believe the reference is to Choo wearing two earflaps on his helmet, like a little leaguer.

by afh4 on Jul 24, 2008 11:11 PM EDT up 0 recs

Quit making fun of the Magic Helmet. The Magic Helmet does not like to be mocked.

by FredOx on Jul 25, 2008 12:28 PM EDT up 0 recs

i had coffee this morning for the first time in months, on an empty stomach. i’ve felt like i’m going to throw up all day.

by Gradyforpresident on Jul 24, 2008 6:04 PM EDT 1 recs

Good to know.

-Erik

by drerikbrady on Jul 25, 2008 12:04 PM EDT up 0 recs

The 2010 Asian games are not until November 2010, so it would not conflict with US baseball.

Taiwan and Japan are the main competition, so a gold medal is not certain. Korea took bronze in 2006. How well does Korea have to do to limit his service? Choo said that if you do well(?) at the Olympics, you might only have to serve 4 weeks.

by palcal on Jul 25, 2008 3:29 PM EDT 0 recs