$44 million tied up in Hafner, which you’ve got to be wondering about.

Blake is on his way out.

Your big league rotation has issues, although if Westbrook and Carmona come back healthy next year they would mitigate some of the problem. But Byrd is a FA-to-be, Laffey (whom I like) needs to grow, Sowers looks like a flop and your top SP prospect is hurt again.

You’ve got some talent in the upper minors (Huff, LaPorta, Hodges) but you’d need them all to be big league ready next year to fill all the holes you have. As Asdrubal Cabrera showed, sometimes young guys can really struggle.

Basically, I see room for improvement.

Miguel Cabrera, who sported an OPS+ at least 25 points higher then Sizemore in 2006 and 2007, got traded along with Dontrelle Willis for 6 players. You’re telling me that there isn’t a team in baseball that has 6 players worthy of trading for Sizemore?

I’m calling BS on that.

no you wouldn’t

If you thought Shapiro would seriously consider trading Grady then you don’t understand how to value baseball players.

Also, if you haven’t noticed, we don’t use the subject lines around here. They’re pointless and it make for a much easier read without them.

You’re asking us to do the legwork on something that would 1) never happen 2) would not improve the team in 09.

Hit us back up in 2012 when Grady will probably be trade bait.

It’s not discontent or lack of imagination, it’s pragmatism. Turk and Buckeye explained why Sizemore is not going anywhere. Why can’t you accept that?

Yes, I would turn that down. An unproven, injured SP and a LF with power who plays defence like Eduardo Silva do not equal one of, if not the best, assets in the game.

Like I said up in the thread, it would have to be a (semi) proven, elite, young pitcher or nothing else. Justin and Tiny Tim are about the only two that qualify.

I think the biggest problem with this scenario isn’t “trading Grady,” it’s “trading Grady to Oakland.” Every player has a price. If Shapiro decides the existing core isn’t good enough to make a run in 2009-2010, he could decide to blow up the team. In such a case, Grady could be available, but only for a large package of prospects.

The problem is, Billy doesn’t make those deals. Well, he makes them, but always from the other side.

Rec for Pee Wee Herman reference,

Thank you—that’s a nice summary of what I was trying to say in my many posts above.

Too much pitching and not enough hitting is why I’m here. Thanks for the reply.

And plus, the problem with his “quantity” premise, is that when you take on this many guys, you have to make room for them, which would soon require the release of some of our current major leaguers. So not only do you have to factor in the fact that Grady is virtually untouchable, but you have to consider the Value above Replacement Minor Leaguer factor. And I don’t think anyone’s minor league system is talented enough to make up for that difference across seven guys.

Thinking about it, I’d rather start with Carlos Gonzalez, Trevor Cahill and Brett Anderson and build from there.

Our best current minor leaguers, LaPorta and Huff excepted, are good bets to show up in 2010 and 2011. Grady will still be under contract, affordable, and 27.

I see them hovering around .500, if they catch a few breaks and have a few players exceed expectations. A lot of people believe the Indians will miraculously return to 11 games above .500 simply through the benefit of a new calendar year. I think there is a possibility of a stronger rebound in 2010 with the arrival of bats mentioned above (LaPorta, Weglarz, Mills).

Problem is that the Tribe doesn’t seem to take a linear path. Three seasons ago we ended with a very promising push and near playoff contention. Two seasons ago we tanked. Last season we were a game away from the WS. This season we tank. In the seasons that tank we have horrible bulpens, but in the good seasons we’re set. Many times this comes with pretty much the same base of guys. I honestly don’t know what to expect from next year’s team, honestly.

I also see a bunch of offseason moves to try and make us better. This season is dead. But we get back a bunch of guys next year as well (Carmona, Martinez, Hafner, and eventually Westbrook). Honestly we will attempt to contend again next year. That will be based upon having Sizemore. I know that might be difficult for you to understand, but it is the simple truth.

Exactly.

What he said.

Alright, lets say you do decide to blow up the team. Let’s look at your tradable pieces.

You’ve got Sizemore.

Cliff Lee
Casey Blake
Ben Francisco (Can he play CF? That would boost his stock.)
Jhonny Peralta (Yes I had to look up his name to spell it correctly!)
Kelly Shoppach???
Rafael Perez
Masahide Kobayashi

Victor Martinez is going to have to come back and prove he’s healthy, so no trading him until the offseason less Shapiro wants to sell way low.

Travis Hafner, because of his contract and injury, probably has negative trade value.

We’re agreed you could get a ton for Sizemore and you’d get a very good return on Lee, but after that… Peralta’s your best trade trip and I know there are plenty of people who question his defense. When I stopped by in the offseason (back when the A’s were shopping Haren and the Indians were interested in buying) I heard time and again that Tribe fans were hoping A. Cabrera would be the starting SS in 2008. Folks around here wanted that to happen so much most refused to talk about including him in a package for Haren. So without looking up Peralta’s defensive metrics, I’m guessing his glove isn’t going to add any extra to his trade value.

Blake’s a rental, Kobayashi and Perez are solid arms but nothing special and I don’t see Shoppach bringing in a haul.

So blow up your roster and tell me who’s going to bring in the new blood.

now gone; look what we got for Blake and then compare Grady’s long-term value to the Indians to Blake’s

Sheesh… sorry for being neighborly.

And I object to the “fantasy trade games” comment. It belittles those who are curious to know who might be coming over in a trade. I assume when the Brewers came calling for CC some BrewCrew fans came over to try and find out how steep the price was going to be from some folks with an entirely different perspective on the matter.

There’s nothing wrong with that.

Well, that might be a little high. Let’s go $12.5m/yr.

If Sizemore is as wonderful as you all say he is, then his agent will laugh in your face.

$15 million annual on a 10 year extension? Congragulations, there is nothing I’ve said on this thread that is more out of touch with reality then your idea. Beltran’s making $18.5 million. Hanley Ramirez signed an extension that tops out at $16 million, David Wright signed an extension two years ago that tops out at $16 million.

And you think $15 million per is even going to come close to getting an extension done?

Less likely. Trading Lebron at the deadline next year might not be the worst decision of all time if the team isn’t looking championship caliber.

Though it’d be roughly equivalent from a PR standpoint.

Yes 10 for 1.

Grady = 2 x Von Hayes

Like I, or Shapiro for that matter, should care about the PR fallout.

YAWN

If you’re going to play that game, when was the last time the Indians won a WS title?

And yes, he’s now a converted starter….and still sucks. Give Shap credit for cutting him when he did, as easy a decision as it might’ve seemed at the time.

Rec.

Next time, let’s have a discussion on who Osama Bin Laden’s running mate should be when he’s running for President of the U.S.

Well, that was surreal.

Anyways, if any of you drop by AN and try to start a legit baseball discussion you’ll receive a fairly warm reception.

Same here. Try it next time.

I wasn’t mean enough?

I actually had a fairly serious response I wanted to write, but when I got down to the $150 million contract talk, I had to preempt it for something more in the “STFU Donnie” vein.

Well, at the very least, we’ve got this around for the next time somebody suggests it. I have a feeling it’s going to happen again.