Sabathia trade talks with Milwaukee heating up

by Ryan on Jul 5, 2008 10:05 PM EDT in News Comment 124 comments

From the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinal's Tom Haudricourt:

I just spoke with general manager Doug Melvin who told me he's waiting to see if the Cleveland Indians will accept his trade proposal for left-hander C.C. Sabathia.

"Mark said he'd be in touch with me," said Melvin, referring to Cleveland general manager Mark Shapiro. "I'm sure they've got to think through everything."

[snip]

Several names have been included in trade rumors involving the Brewers but their offer is thought to center on outfielder Matt LaPorta, their top minor-league prospect. LaPorta, currently playing at Class AA Huntsville, was the Brewers' first-round draft pick in 2007.

[UPDATE]: Buster Olney with more information on the talks:

The Brewers and Indians have had extensive talks about Sabathia, and if a deal is made, it is likely that Double-A outfielder Matt LaPorta, who has 20 homers for Huntsville, would be in the middle of the package sent to Cleveland. According to sources, the Brewers have been reluctant to part with two of their best prospects, preferring the Indians fill out the trade from a group of players not considered to be at LaPorta's level. The Brewers' Double-A team at Huntsville is loaded, from shortstop Alcides Escobar to third baseman Mat Gamel to catcher Angel Salome.

[UPDATE II]: More from Haudricourt (7-6-08):

FYI, nothing new on the C.C. Sabathia front but I get the impression the Brewers are expecting an answer today, one way or the other. If the deal isn’t done today, it would be almost impossible to get two starts out of Sabathia before the all-star break, which is what the Brewers have in mind.

(hat tip: APV)

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The Olney article says that the Brewers might not want to give up too much to get CC, and could start looking in other directions. He mentions the Rays, Dodgers, and Phillies as other possible trade partners for the Indians. So the offer from the Brewers may not be as good as some here have speculated.

by Buckeye Brad on Jul 5, 2008 10:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I suppose you’re referring to this:

But the Brewers are simultaneously preparing for the possibility they may not be the team that lands the veteran left-hander, beginning the process of generating a B-list of alternatives.

Which does not mean that the Brewers are no longer interested in Sabathia, or that they are reluctant to part with Matt LaPorta. This is called negotiation.

by Ryan on Jul 5, 2008 10:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I know what negotiation is, so please don’t talk to me like I’m a child. And I never said the Brewers were no longer interested in Sabathia so I don’t know why you made that comment. The article made the comment that the Brewers were reluctant to part with two of their best prospects, and would try to get the Indians to take some lower-level ones. The article mentioned other pitchers that the Brewers might be looking at, as well as other teams the Indians are talking to. Of course the Indians are negotiating with many teams, and so are the Brewers. I’m not an idiot, and I don’t appreciate being talked to like I am.

by Buckeye Brad on Jul 6, 2008 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

This also could be standard brinksmanship between Melvin and Shapiro. See who blinks first. Will Melvin be happy if he has to take Randy Wolf? I think Shapiro has the better hand.

by odradek on Jul 5, 2008 10:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I was just typing something up along these lines. It seems to be your standard chest-puffing from both sides. Shapiro says he has Sabathia and any other team will gladly meet his demands, and Melvin says he’s got LaPorta and you’re not going to get that somewhere else. And of course they’re both right.

I see a win-win (win-win-win for Office fans) if the Indians just throw in whatever reasonable addition will get Escobar. I won’t even bother speculating what that extra piece might be. I don’t really know Melvin’s idea of value.

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on Jul 5, 2008 10:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The problem is, their biggest need (the bullpen) is the area we can least afford.

by Toxicadam on Jul 5, 2008 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

This isn’t necessarily true. For a team like the Brewers, who are looking only at what can help them in the next three months, they need some good (as in good now) relievers. The Indians are a team playing a lost season. They more than anyone else these past four years know how volatile a bullpen can be. Remember that 2007 was a pen entirely made up of patchwork pieces and surprising youngsters. They could try the same thing in 2008.

I guess what I’m saying is, if a good bullpen arm is keeping us from getting the ideal offer, I think we would be foolish to remain stubborn. But I don’t know that a bullpen arm is all it would take.

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on Jul 5, 2008 10:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

LaPorta is doing very, very well, but that’s what all-bat no-glove guys are supposed to do at 23. Really, if he were such a total can’t-miss major leaguer, wouldn’t he be one already? No? The Brewers are just so awesome they’d leave 25 HRs in the minors for kicks?

by fleerdon on Jul 6, 2008 1:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

He’s 23, but he also went to college. He was drafted one year ago and only got just over 100 ABs in between Rookie level and A-ball, where he slugged somewhere around .600 for the first time with a wooden bat. Maybe the Brewers see the benefit of letting him collect 300 ABs at the AA level without a need to rush him, or they have the luxury of not needing him too urgently, or whatever their logic is. Either way he’s almost on a Lincecum pace to reach the majors. He should be the first hitter from last year’s class to reach the show, right?

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on Jul 6, 2008 9:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i recall the brewers being pretty set at LF/1B

by emil minty on Jul 6, 2008 9:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree, Nick, he’s doing very well—but he’s a top draft pick who was already 22 and doesn’t play much defense. He’d be a disappointment if he were doing anything else. I think, if that kind of draft choice isn’t knocking on the majors’ door within 2 years, something’s wrong.

by fleerdon on Jul 6, 2008 9:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I just read the full Haudricourt entry.

First: For a GM, Doug Melvin seems loose-lipped, but not in the evil J.P. Ricciardi way.
Second: Why can’t Hoynes blog like this? It seems really easy. This goes back to our media discussion. Does this really look hard? I’m not looking for LGT-level analysis here.

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on Jul 5, 2008 10:46 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

You’re talking about a guy who can’t even look up stats to back up his points.

by Toxicadam on Jul 5, 2008 10:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

My feeling is that if the Indians get LaPorta, they’ve already done better than the Twins did in the Johan situation. And I think that’s awesome knowing that C.C. is nothing more than a rental.

I think the Indians, if all they’re left standing with in a few days, is Matt LaPorta, all in all have done exceptionally well. They turned Sabathia into a legitimate stud prospect, the kind of guy Brandon Phillips was when he was acquired. And I just use Phillips’ name to refer to the highest caliber prospect available (Cliff and Grady were both legit prospects, but Phillips was IT).

Andy Laroche and Carlos Carrasco and all the others would be nice, but they are not Matt LaPorta. LaPorta is no guarantee of being anything special, but that’s exactly the type of guy you get back when you deal an ace.

by xrickx on Jul 5, 2008 10:50 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

In other words, spare me your Tim Drews and your Earl Snyders. If it’s the big dog and not anything else, I think the Indians are wise to go after quality and not quantity.

by xrickx on Jul 5, 2008 10:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

And in the end I think Shapiro knows this. Especially from a team-need basis, there isn’t much talent out there within his grasp that matches LaPorta (and I only say “much” instead of “any” because I haven’t really thought it through).

I’d be really surprised if LaPorta doesn’t become an Indian. This is pure speculation, but if Shapiro at least sees a window to attempt to get Escobar in this deal he owes it to his team to stab at it. I don’t think Melvin is going to walk away from these talks. The “lesser” offer is sitting on the table right now. If Melvin appears on the verge of calling Mark’s bluff, Mark can still take the original offer and get the jewel.

As an aside, the potential acquisition of Matt LaPorta—and I know I’m getting ahead of myself here—presents us with a duty. We need a great nickname for him. Pronk-ess in it’s simplicity and greatness. Also, I’m getting sick of the capital “P” right in the middle of his name. Kind of a hassle.

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on Jul 5, 2008 11:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It’ll end up being some bland, like Port is to LaPorta as Vic is to Victor.

I know Escobar is supposedly otherworldly with his glove, but the guy , from a numbers standpoint, is scary on offense. And I’m not talking good scary. He drew 18 walks in 494ABs last year with 1HR and 21XBH. This year, he’s got 18 walks in 367AB with 24 XBH, including 7HR.

My issue, though, is his lack of walks. I know he’s young. But if he’s hitting .260 at the Major League level, he’s got a .290OBP. And I’m scared about a guy who needs to hit .300 in the Bigs to have offensive value.

Escobar makes sense defensively if the Indians are going to be stocking a rotation of Carmona, Laffey, and Westbrook, though what Jake contributes next year and 2010 (and beyond, if he’s still an Indian) is unknown. Having Escobar, Cabrera, and Marte on the infield is a defensive alignment more palatable for that type of staff. And our sanity.

by xrickx on Jul 5, 2008 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It is tough to see the Indians liking a guy with so little selectivity.

by Jay on Jul 5, 2008 11:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

maybe shapiro is feigning interest in esobar to ‘talk them down’ into a player he really wants

by mpstable on Jul 5, 2008 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

OK, I’m not sure I’m allowed to do this, but here is Hardricourt on his blog following up in the comments section. Sorry if this is against the rules….

OK, guys, here’s the latest. The Indians are trying to get the Brewers to add another top prospect to their LaPorta offer, such as Escobar or Gamel. The Brewers, who had to gulp hard just to include LaPorta, want them to take lesser players, such as Green and/or Cain. In the meantime, Philly is trying to sneak in and get Sabathia. The Indians will probably tell the Brewers to sweeten their offer or they’ll trade Sabathia to Philly. Melvin will have to hold firm and risk losing Sabathia or really give up A LOT to get him. Rather than give up LaPorta AND Escobar or Gamel, they’d concentrate on Plan B pitchers such as Greg Maddux, Randy Wolf and A.J. Burnett. There’s only so much you can give up for Sabathia, who is guaranteed to be lost to free agency after the season.

by cheech99 on Jul 5, 2008 11:07 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

This sounds like Haudricourt just summed up what Olney said.

And use the quote button in your comment box. You know, if you’re quoting someone.

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on Jul 5, 2008 11:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sorry, that was just a complete oversight.

by cheech99 on Jul 5, 2008 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I should also add shame on you for making me read the comments.

LOL @ Cleveland if they think taking a bunch of Philly’s low level prospects is a better move than taking a blue chip prospect and a couple of low level guys.

LOL @ people who use LOL. Am I right?!!!!111

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on Jul 5, 2008 11:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

If you would of told me a week ago, I’d be spending about my entire 4th of July holiday weekend reading the comments section of that blog….

by cheech99 on Jul 5, 2008 11:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hopefully this is Shapiro trying to wring as much as can out of the Brewers, because none of the names bandied about comes close to LaPorta’s stature.

by Ryan on Jul 5, 2008 11:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Anyone get the feeling this is going down by Sunday 5 pm?

I want Escobar AND LaPorta.

by mjschaefer on Jul 5, 2008 11:16 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

i want LaPorta and Gamel

by Gradyforpresident on Jul 5, 2008 11:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Okay, LaPorta, Gamel, and Escobar. We’ll add Blake. He’s like uber clutch.

No snickering from us. Sell it with your eyes …

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on Jul 5, 2008 11:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Okay, okay, you can have Hafner too. My Lord, you people sure drive a hard bargain!

by Jay on Jul 5, 2008 11:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Mark should spray some water on his forehead so he looks like he’s really sweating over that one.

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on Jul 5, 2008 11:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

What would we do with all that left over money? Sign Ben Sheets?

by mjschaefer on Jul 5, 2008 11:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

sign CC

by Gradyforpresident on Jul 5, 2008 11:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hedge on gas prices for the team charter.

by xrickx on Jul 5, 2008 11:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

They’re still flying in a plane? Good Lord! Next thing you’ll tell me is that the whirl pool is still working.

Il faut d'abord durer.

by CU Adam on Jul 6, 2008 3:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sign Orlando Hudson and just laugh maniacally, field a team of 8 middle infielders, and laugh maniacally.

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on Jul 5, 2008 11:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

/laughs maniacally.

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on Jul 5, 2008 11:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The Cubs are doing it, and doing it well.

by xrickx on Jul 5, 2008 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

More valuable Casey Blake or DeRosa?

by mjschaefer on Jul 5, 2008 11:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

DeRosa can play 2B. But I guess Blake’s a shortstop, so I don’t know.

by xrickx on Jul 5, 2008 11:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

/spits up food

by Jay on Jul 5, 2008 11:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The Rose.

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on Jul 5, 2008 11:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sign our top-8 Boras client draft pick.

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on Jul 5, 2008 11:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i don’t want escobar. especially with a first name that starts with A.

by Gradyforpresident on Jul 5, 2008 11:24 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

I saw Gamel here in Hawaii during the HWL...

...and the guy can rake. Lets get him.

by OscarDog on Jul 6, 2008 12:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don’t think that’s realistic, but I’m not the one cutting the deal. But I’d take LaPorta and Taylor Green, the two guys mentioned in the original package.

by xrickx on Jul 5, 2008 11:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

That’s the beauty of it, because in my opinion Shapiro would too. God bless him for trying to wring the towel dry.

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on Jul 5, 2008 11:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think Green makes more sense than Escobar. I’m not a scout, but how many guys with Escobar’s skill set actually survive in MLB?

I’d rather have Bill Mueller than Tony Pena Jr.

by xrickx on Jul 5, 2008 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

but why green? isn’t he just like hodges but not as advanced?

by Gradyforpresident on Jul 5, 2008 11:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

welp. he’d do well as the sizemore type player i think. any word on his glove?

by Gradyforpresident on Jul 5, 2008 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

From what I’ve read, he doesn’t do anything great, but doesn’t do anything poorly.

And why, you ask?

Because I’m not sold on Wes Hodges. And if I am sold on Hodges, I now can flip Hodges or Green for something else. Kinda like when you have Matt LaPorta and no place to put him, but he still can do great things for your organization.

by xrickx on Jul 5, 2008 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

But I really like D.

I’m talking about Escobar here.

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on Jul 5, 2008 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Even Orlando Cabrera, when in the minor leagues, showed some semblance of an ability to draw a walk. I just don’t think guys who walk 18 times a year stand a chance, even if they are 21 and in AA.

by xrickx on Jul 5, 2008 11:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah it sucks.

But.

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on Jul 5, 2008 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I just don’t know how good a 21 year old 3B prospect is in High A Ball who has a 317/398/468 line. Is that a 4-star prospect or is he only a 4-star prospect if he does the same thing in AA next year?

Baseball America “his range and arm strength at third base are just adequate”.

That’s the whole thing with Green, Escobar and all of those other Huntsville cats are doing it at AA, the point where the real prospects start to separate from the pack.

by cheech99 on Jul 5, 2008 11:33 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

But what is Escobar doing? I’m encouraged by his increased pop this year. But if he was hitting .280 and had a .310 OBP, how would you feel about him?

by xrickx on Jul 5, 2008 11:51 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

I’d be like sweet, because a .280 hitter is pretty valuable. And he’s fast, too. Boom. There’s our new leadoff hitter. Average and speed are all I need to evalua—

/face melts.

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on Jul 5, 2008 11:53 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs

Haha. Exactly. Which is why I think if the Indians trade Sabathia to the Dodgers, they can just take back Juan Pierre. And then the Dodgers can have Choo and Gutierrez too, cause BenFran can take RF and Pierre can take LF. And Pierre never misses a game so we don’t need to worry. So then he can hit leadoff and then Grady can hit 3rd and then I bet the Indians will contend yesterday.

by xrickx on Jul 6, 2008 12:00 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

Plus, I’m pretty sure Joe Morgan thinks Juan Pierre is a competitor, a gamer, a tough out, a good fastball hitter, a leader, a scrappy hitter, a throwback player, gritty, and a good clubhouse presence.

by xrickx on Jul 6, 2008 12:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The above exchange is exactly the reason why this is the only Indians forum worth reading.

by Jay on Jul 6, 2008 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

So who are these Phillies lower level prospects that aren’t supposed to contribute right away that are all of a sudden a supposedly hot commodity?

by cheech99 on Jul 5, 2008 11:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Is Drabek’s kid one of them?

by mjschaefer on Jul 5, 2008 11:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

http://minors.baseball-reference.com/players.cgi?pid=32072

Here’s one.

by Toxicadam on Jul 5, 2008 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

He was the High School Player of the Year.

by mjschaefer on Jul 5, 2008 11:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i think i’m gonna get drunk and watch last year’s highlights until a trade goes down.

by Gradyforpresident on Jul 5, 2008 11:30 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

any takers?

by Gradyforpresident on Jul 5, 2008 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

If you’re A) drunk and B) watching 2007 highlights, boy are you gonna cry when we trade Sabathia.

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on Jul 5, 2008 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not sure I can handle the excitement of winning.

by mjschaefer on Jul 5, 2008 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I typically watch Major League when I’m in that kind of mood, and if I’m still awake at the end of it, I start watching the Jacob’s Field Best of Box Set, skipping the final few minutes of the ‘95 season and all of the ‘97 DVD.

Il faut d'abord durer.

by CU Adam on Jul 6, 2008 3:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I finished the bottle during the game, sorry.

by xrickx on Jul 5, 2008 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

And anyway, what are you talking about? This team is already more fun to watch. I mean, Marte started! Got two hits!

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on Jul 5, 2008 11:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

and an RBI!

by Gradyforpresident on Jul 5, 2008 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i agree, too, i just wish i hadn’t had both the starting pitchers going for my fantasy team tonight

by Gradyforpresident on Jul 5, 2008 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

This is one of the more painful tribe teams to watch.

by mjschaefer on Jul 5, 2008 11:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

holy god marte hit a home run on april 4th last year

by Gradyforpresident on Jul 5, 2008 11:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

what a swing!

by Gradyforpresident on Jul 5, 2008 11:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Who knew that this thread would be tougher to catch up to than tonights game thread

Dear Mr. Sabean, I hear you have a reputation of being stupid. Want to deal Lincecum or Cain? You can pick THREE of these 4 players for either: Borowski, Dellucci, Blake, Byrd.

by westbrook on Jul 5, 2008 11:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Another half hour and it will have more posts.

by Toxicadam on Jul 5, 2008 11:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

listen people jason michaels, his catch to win the second game of the year last year, that’s just a great highlight

by Gradyforpresident on Jul 5, 2008 11:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

If this turns into a season thread, I will cyber smack you.

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on Jul 5, 2008 11:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

are you kidding me this is great

by Gradyforpresident on Jul 5, 2008 11:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

No its annoying and sad. But I’m glad you are drinking.

by mjschaefer on Jul 5, 2008 11:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

oh man this shut me up real good .. HOLY GOD hafner tatooed that ball in Tampa

by Gradyforpresident on Jul 5, 2008 11:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

If the offer is CC for Laporta, Green and Cain, I think you have to do it if you were Shap. A couple weeks ago, wouldn’t you?

But I’d love to see us put more on the table to get more back.

Also, I really hope the Dodgers are in the mix so that the deal can get pumped up. I like Laroche as much as Laporta, for different reasons, and LA can add pitching to the deal.

by mcrose on Jul 5, 2008 11:45 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I like no one as much as Laporta

Fixed.

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on Jul 5, 2008 11:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Have you checked out Laroche’s track record? Unlike all the guys on the Huntsville club who are at acme hype, Laroche has passed his peak market value just because he’s not played as much this year. The guy is a power hitting, high obp legit 3rd baseman who can step into the starting lineup next year.

I like Laporta too, but if we can finally solve 3B and get a really good pitching prospect, that’s huge.

by mcrose on Jul 6, 2008 12:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Laroche is a 24 year old 3B who turns 25 in September. In his first 126 MLB ABs he’s hit .222/..357.341.

He has a total different (better) approach than Marte, but it honestly makes little sense to turn to a guy like Laroche when you have Marte, age 24 (25 in October), already on your team. Laroche is nice, but LaPorta’s got a bat that just screams a lot louder than Laroche.

by xrickx on Jul 6, 2008 12:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Don’t get your point about age, but hey, I was hanging on the Marte Crisp trade like I am now with CC, hoping we would finally get our power hitting 3B for the future. But frankly, as much as I think Marte’s gotten the shaft this year, I’m not counting on him for next year.

If I had to choose between Laroche and Laporta all else being equal, I’d have to think a bit. I’d go with Laporta for the 40 HR potential and DH type athletic profile, or Laroche with the 30 HR potential and solid 3B skills. But the difference maker in the overall deal would be the other pieces – if we got good close to ready pitching vs high-A hitting, it would weigh heavily.

I’m too lazy to link, but check out McDonald’s pitching line at the various levels. He would automatically be our first or second best pitching prospect.

Caveat being nobody knows if LA has even made an offer.

by mcrose on Jul 6, 2008 12:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The point about age is that Laroche, age 24, is just reaching the Major Leagues and has struggled in his debut this year and last. Andy Marte may not have the same plate discipline, but Marte has been in the Majors for parts for FOUR seasons AND, to boot, he’s YOUNGER than Laroche.

My point simply is that it’s not uncommon for young players to struggle, even ones with great pedigrees like Laroche. And the second but equally important point is that Marte, younger than Laroche, should not be forgotten. Marte is the exact type of player Shapiro would be looking to find to play 3B in the second half of this season after he dealt Blake.

by xrickx on Jul 6, 2008 1:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Dude, they’re the same age. And right now, Laroche is a much better bet than Marte.

But on the last point, I agree – LA trade notwithstanding, we’ll be seeing more of Marte, finally.

by mcrose on Jul 6, 2008 1:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

But why waste your bullet (Sabathia) on Laroche if it can bring you LaPorta?

I think the point is that the gap between LaPorta and Jordan Brown (assuming LaPorta moves back to 1B) or LaPorta and Generic Indians Corner Outfielder is larger than the gap between Marte and Laroche.

I don’t have ally delusion that Marte will be as good as Laroche. I would have no problem with Laroche being in a C.C. deal. I just think the Indians might already have a (lesser) solution in house with the ability to fill another hole by going with the Brewers.

by xrickx on Jul 6, 2008 2:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Again, one La is close to the other in my opinion, for different reasons. It would be the pitching that the Dodgers could offer that would make it a better deal.

But the only thing I know right now is that there’s a Brewer offer on the table.

by mcrose on Jul 6, 2008 2:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don’t know, is Lorenzo Cain even intriguing in the least? 22-year old who can’t even muster an 800 OPS in High A ball? Haven’t we had our fill of these types already?

by cheech99 on Jul 5, 2008 11:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Granted, I know he’s the 3rd guy in the deal, but still…

by cheech99 on Jul 5, 2008 11:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, 3rd guy – but a 5 tool athlete who is still a top 10 prospect for the Brewers.

Like I said, if the final offer is CC straight up for Laporta, Green and Cain, Shap can’t turn it down unless he expands the trade or has a better offer from another team.

Would you?

by mcrose on Jul 6, 2008 12:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Nope I would take it. I think the Phillies don’t have the horses, I think the Dodgers (according to Olney) won’t get down to business, the Angels have never dealt anybody, Boston’s too smart, the Yanks don’t have enough position prospects. I would take this deal if it came down to it.

To your point about expanding the trade, my hope is that he expands it to include Kobayashi, in which case I’d like somebody better than Cain… certainly not Gamel or Salome, and probably not Escobar, but isn’t there somebody else better than Cain?

by cheech99 on Jul 6, 2008 12:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Why’s everybody in such a rush to deal Masa? Somebody has to get outs in the pen next year.

by xrickx on Jul 6, 2008 12:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

betancourt, perez, lewis, stevens, miller, arm 1, arm 2

by Gradyforpresident on Jul 6, 2008 12:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

huff in the rotation by may 15

by Gradyforpresident on Jul 6, 2008 12:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think he’s been smoke and mirrors with that K rate and we’d be selling high. I honestly don’t know what to think of that guy though.

I also am somewhat skeptical about this team’s ability to contend in 2009 and wouldn’t mind dealing a bullpen arm if that allows us to upgrade on Cain.

I’ve also come around to the point that as long as this team is employing Eric Wedge as manager, you’re only using 5 of your relievers anyway. The other 2 rot away.

by cheech99 on Jul 6, 2008 12:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

True. Perhaps the most objective example of the downside of the Wedge ethos. He actually lets players on the 25 rot.

by mcrose on Jul 6, 2008 12:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

That’s just because he doesn’t trust the last two. If he had John Wetteland and Mariano Rivera, he’d use them. The workload he imposed last year (his COT) probably had something to do with the collapse this year.

by odradek on Jul 6, 2008 1:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

somebody in the bullpen has to get outs this year

by palcal on Jul 6, 2008 12:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not really. And as I’ve said before, we have no idea who’s going to plug in and be great in 2009. It’s a bullpen.

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on Jul 6, 2008 9:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Call me crazy, I’d love to roll the dice and buy low on Ellsbury. Just a gut thing.

by Jay on Jul 6, 2008 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Jacoby “just another Dave Roberts” Ellsbury?

You deserve all the flak you catch, you know that?

by fleerdon on Jul 6, 2008 8:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Is there anyone we can add that the Brewers would want? Besides Perez?

And also, how has it not been mentioned that the only city the Hefty Lefty could possibly look better for in uniform than Cleveland is Milwaukee? They’re like the same fat city, only a few hundred miles and a different Great Lake apart.

Il faut d'abord durer.

by CU Adam on Jul 6, 2008 3:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

That guy from the WKNR interview said no city would be more welcoming of Sabathia’s body size than Milwaukee. With Prince on the team they may need a bigger team plane.

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on Jul 6, 2008 9:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Matt LaPorta

= A Total Tramp

= Total Ram Apt

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on Jul 5, 2008 11:45 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs

Way too much time on your hands. Nevertheless good work.

by mjschaefer on Jul 6, 2008 12:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Just plugged it into an anagram thingy.

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on Jul 6, 2008 12:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

CC started a double play last year with a bare hand. that’s tight.

by Gradyforpresident on Jul 6, 2008 12:13 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

hahaha rick white

by Gradyforpresident on Jul 6, 2008 12:15 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Guys, this is ridiculous. We should just keep the draft picks.

And, to pat ourselves on the back, how remarkably right was this communtiy about CC’s value, when a lot of people, MSM included, seemed to have no inkling it was this high?

And by the way, Weglarz does not forsake us. He went yard tonight. LaPorta and Weglarz are going to be working hard to make each other look redundant. And yeah, I believe that much in Weglarz. We’ve got a monster growing.

by afh4 on Jul 6, 2008 12:49 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Weglarz does not forsake us. He went yard twice tonight.

by afh4 on Jul 6, 2008 1:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

and hit a double

by APV on Jul 6, 2008 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It’s about time for him to declare himself finished with A ball. He’s got a career to get on with.

by fleerdon on Jul 6, 2008 1:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

So…am I alone in thinking today is D-Day for CC and the Tribe? I’m sensing a post-game news conference

by APV on Jul 6, 2008 10:56 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

yeah it feels like it.

by Gradyforpresident on Jul 6, 2008 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sabathia’s next scheduled start is Tuesday. Milwaukee is starting Manny Parra Tuesday, Ben Sheets Weds., and Dave Bush on Thurs. Presuming that Bush is the guy bumped by CC, they could wait until our off-day tomorrow to consummate the deal, then start CC with the extra rest on Thurs. Or they could do the deal today, get CC into town and start him Tuesday, bumping Parra to Thursday. I guess it depends on how anxious they are to maximize the number of starts they can get from Sabathia, who is, after all, a rent-a-player for them.

"A good body with a dull brain is as cheap as life itself."

by Fiddlesticks on Jul 6, 2008 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs