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Sabathia trade talks with Milwaukee heating up

Perez_tiny by Ryan on in News

From the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinal's Tom Haudricourt:

I just spoke with general manager Doug Melvin who told me he's waiting to see if the Cleveland Indians will accept his trade proposal for left-hander C.C. Sabathia.

"Mark said he'd be in touch with me," said Melvin, referring to Cleveland general manager Mark Shapiro. "I'm sure they've got to think through everything."

[snip]

Several names have been included in trade rumors involving the Brewers but their offer is thought to center on outfielder Matt LaPorta, their top minor-league prospect. LaPorta, currently playing at Class AA Huntsville, was the Brewers' first-round draft pick in 2007.

[UPDATE]: Buster Olney with more information on the talks:

The Brewers and Indians have had extensive talks about Sabathia, and if a deal is made, it is likely that Double-A outfielder Matt LaPorta, who has 20 homers for Huntsville, would be in the middle of the package sent to Cleveland. According to sources, the Brewers have been reluctant to part with two of their best prospects, preferring the Indians fill out the trade from a group of players not considered to be at LaPorta's level. The Brewers' Double-A team at Huntsville is loaded, from shortstop Alcides Escobar to third baseman Mat Gamel to catcher Angel Salome.

[UPDATE II]: More from Haudricourt (7-6-08):

FYI, nothing new on the C.C. Sabathia front but I get the impression the Brewers are expecting an answer today, one way or the other. If the deal isn’t done today, it would be almost impossible to get two starts out of Sabathia before the all-star break, which is what the Brewers have in mind.

(hat tip: APV)

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The Olney article says that the Brewers might not want to give up too much to get CC, and could start looking in other directions. He mentions the Rays, Dodgers, and Phillies as other possible trade partners for the Indians. So the offer from the Brewers may not be as good as some here have speculated.

by Buckeye Brad on Jul 5, 2008 10:20 PM EDT   0 recs

I suppose you’re referring to this:

But the Brewers are simultaneously preparing for the possibility they may not be the team that lands the veteran left-hander, beginning the process of generating a B-list of alternatives.

Which does not mean that the Brewers are no longer interested in Sabathia, or that they are reluctant to part with Matt LaPorta. This is called negotiation.

by Ryan on Jul 5, 2008 10:50 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I know what negotiation is, so please don’t talk to me like I’m a child. And I never said the Brewers were no longer interested in Sabathia so I don’t know why you made that comment. The article made the comment that the Brewers were reluctant to part with two of their best prospects, and would try to get the Indians to take some lower-level ones. The article mentioned other pitchers that the Brewers might be looking at, as well as other teams the Indians are talking to. Of course the Indians are negotiating with many teams, and so are the Brewers. I’m not an idiot, and I don’t appreciate being talked to like I am.

by Buckeye Brad on Jul 6, 2008 2:27 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

This also could be standard brinksmanship between Melvin and Shapiro. See who blinks first. Will Melvin be happy if he has to take Randy Wolf? I think Shapiro has the better hand.

by odradek on Jul 5, 2008 10:35 PM EDT   0 recs

I was just typing something up along these lines. It seems to be your standard chest-puffing from both sides. Shapiro says he has Sabathia and any other team will gladly meet his demands, and Melvin says he’s got LaPorta and you’re not going to get that somewhere else. And of course they’re both right.

I see a win-win (win-win-win for Office fans) if the Indians just throw in whatever reasonable addition will get Escobar. I won’t even bother speculating what that extra piece might be. I don’t really know Melvin’s idea of value.

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on Jul 5, 2008 10:40 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

The problem is, their biggest need (the bullpen) is the area we can least afford.

by Toxicadam on Jul 5, 2008 10:46 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

This isn’t necessarily true. For a team like the Brewers, who are looking only at what can help them in the next three months, they need some good (as in good now) relievers. The Indians are a team playing a lost season. They more than anyone else these past four years know how volatile a bullpen can be. Remember that 2007 was a pen entirely made up of patchwork pieces and surprising youngsters. They could try the same thing in 2008.

I guess what I’m saying is, if a good bullpen arm is keeping us from getting the ideal offer, I think we would be foolish to remain stubborn. But I don’t know that a bullpen arm is all it would take.

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on Jul 5, 2008 10:57 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

LaPorta is doing very, very well, but that’s what all-bat no-glove guys are supposed to do at 23. Really, if he were such a total can’t-miss major leaguer, wouldn’t he be one already? No? The Brewers are just so awesome they’d leave 25 HRs in the minors for kicks?

by fleerdon on Jul 6, 2008 1:24 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

He’s 23, but he also went to college. He was drafted one year ago and only got just over 100 ABs in between Rookie level and A-ball, where he slugged somewhere around .600 for the first time with a wooden bat. Maybe the Brewers see the benefit of letting him collect 300 ABs at the AA level without a need to rush him, or they have the luxury of not needing him too urgently, or whatever their logic is. Either way he’s almost on a Lincecum pace to reach the majors. He should be the first hitter from last year’s class to reach the show, right?

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on Jul 6, 2008 9:19 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

i recall the brewers being pretty set at LF/1B

by emil minty on Jul 6, 2008 9:42 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I agree, Nick, he’s doing very well—but he’s a top draft pick who was already 22 and doesn’t play much defense. He’d be a disappointment if he were doing anything else. I think, if that kind of draft choice isn’t knocking on the majors’ door within 2 years, something’s wrong.

by fleerdon on Jul 6, 2008 9:46 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I just read the full Haudricourt entry.

First: For a GM, Doug Melvin seems loose-lipped, but not in the evil J.P. Ricciardi way.
Second: Why can’t Hoynes blog like this? It seems really easy. This goes back to our media discussion. Does this really look hard? I’m not looking for LGT-level analysis here.

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on Jul 5, 2008 10:46 PM EDT   0 recs

You’re talking about a guy who can’t even look up stats to back up his points.

by Toxicadam on Jul 5, 2008 10:47 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

My feeling is that if the Indians get LaPorta, they’ve already done better than the Twins did in the Johan situation. And I think that’s awesome knowing that C.C. is nothing more than a rental.

I think the Indians, if all they’re left standing with in a few days, is Matt LaPorta, all in all have done exceptionally well. They turned Sabathia into a legitimate stud prospect, the kind of guy Brandon Phillips was when he was acquired. And I just use Phillips’ name to refer to the highest caliber prospect available (Cliff and Grady were both legit prospects, but Phillips was IT).

Andy Laroche and Carlos Carrasco and all the others would be nice, but they are not Matt LaPorta. LaPorta is no guarantee of being anything special, but that’s exactly the type of guy you get back when you deal an ace.

by xrickx on Jul 5, 2008 10:50 PM EDT   0 recs

In other words, spare me your Tim Drews and your Earl Snyders. If it’s the big dog and not anything else, I think the Indians are wise to go after quality and not quantity.

by xrickx on Jul 5, 2008 10:52 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

And in the end I think Shapiro knows this. Especially from a team-need basis, there isn’t much talent out there within his grasp that matches LaPorta (and I only say “much” instead of “any” because I haven’t really thought it through).

I’d be really surprised if LaPorta doesn’t become an Indian. This is pure speculation, but if Shapiro at least sees a window to attempt to get Escobar in this deal he owes it to his team to stab at it. I don’t think Melvin is going to walk away from these talks. The “lesser” offer is sitting on the table right now. If Melvin appears on the verge of calling Mark’s bluff, Mark can still take the original offer and get the jewel.

As an aside, the potential acquisition of Matt LaPorta—and I know I’m getting ahead of myself here—presents us with a duty. We need a great nickname for him. Pronk-ess in it’s simplicity and greatness. Also, I’m getting sick of the capital “P” right in the middle of his name. Kind of a hassle.

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on Jul 5, 2008 11:04 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

It’ll end up being some bland, like Port is to LaPorta as Vic is to Victor.

I know Escobar is supposedly otherworldly with his glove, but the guy , from a numbers standpoint, is scary on offense. And I’m not talking good scary. He drew 18 walks in 494ABs last year with 1HR and 21XBH. This year, he’s got 18 walks in 367AB with 24 XBH, including 7HR.

My issue, though, is his lack of walks. I know he’s young. But if he’s hitting .260 at the Major League level, he’s got a .290OBP. And I’m scared about a guy who needs to hit .300 in the Bigs to have offensive value.

Escobar makes sense defensively if the Indians are going to be stocking a rotation of Carmona, Laffey, and Westbrook, though what Jake contributes next year and 2010 (and beyond, if he’s still an Indian) is unknown. Having Escobar, Cabrera, and Marte on the infield is a defensive alignment more palatable for that type of staff. And our sanity.

by xrickx on Jul 5, 2008 11:13 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

It is tough to see the Indians liking a guy with so little selectivity.

by Jay on Jul 5, 2008 11:17 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

maybe shapiro is feigning interest in esobar to ‘talk them down’ into a player he really wants

by mpstable on Jul 5, 2008 11:31 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

OK, I’m not sure I’m allowed to do this, but here is Hardricourt on his blog following up in the comments section. Sorry if this is against the rules….

OK, guys, here’s the latest. The Indians are trying to get the Brewers to add another top prospect to their LaPorta offer, such as Escobar or Gamel. The Brewers, who had to gulp hard just to include LaPorta, want them to take lesser players, such as Green and/or Cain. In the meantime, Philly is trying to sneak in and get Sabathia. The Indians will probably tell the Brewers to sweeten their offer or they’ll trade Sabathia to Philly. Melvin will have to hold firm and risk losing Sabathia or really give up A LOT to get him. Rather than give up LaPorta AND Escobar or Gamel, they’d concentrate on Plan B pitchers such as Greg Maddux, Randy Wolf and A.J. Burnett. There’s only so much you can give up for Sabathia, who is guaranteed to be lost to free agency after the season.

by cheech99 on Jul 5, 2008 11:07 PM EDT   0 recs

This sounds like Haudricourt just summed up what Olney said.

And use the quote button in your comment box. You know, if you’re quoting someone.

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on Jul 5, 2008 11:18 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Sorry, that was just a complete oversight.

by cheech99 on Jul 5, 2008 11:19 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I should also add shame on you for making me read the comments.

LOL @ Cleveland if they think taking a bunch of Philly’s low level prospects is a better move than taking a blue chip prospect and a couple of low level guys.

LOL @ people who use LOL. Am I right?!!!!111

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on Jul 5, 2008 11:22 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

If you would of told me a week ago, I’d be spending about my entire 4th of July holiday weekend reading the comments section of that blog….

by cheech99 on Jul 5, 2008 11:25 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Hopefully this is Shapiro trying to wring as much as can out of the Brewers, because none of the names bandied about comes close to LaPorta’s stature.

by Ryan on Jul 5, 2008 11:45 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Anyone get the feeling this is going down by Sunday 5 pm?

I want Escobar AND LaPorta.

by mjschaefer on Jul 5, 2008 11:16 PM EDT   0 recs

i want LaPorta and Gamel

by Gradyforpresident on Jul 5, 2008 11:22 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Okay, LaPorta, Gamel, and Escobar. We’ll add Blake. He’s like uber clutch.

No snickering from us. Sell it with your eyes …

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on Jul 5, 2008 11:22 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Okay, okay, you can have Hafner too. My Lord, you people sure drive a hard bargain!

by Jay on Jul 5, 2008 11:23 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Mark should spray some water on his forehead so he looks like he’s really sweating over that one.

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on Jul 5, 2008 11:24 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

What would we do with all that left over money? Sign Ben Sheets?

by mjschaefer on Jul 5, 2008 11:24 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Hedge on gas prices for the team charter.

by xrickx on Jul 5, 2008 11:25 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

They’re still flying in a plane? Good Lord! Next thing you’ll tell me is that the whirl pool is still working.

Il faut d'abord durer.

by CU Adam on Jul 6, 2008 3:14 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Sign Orlando Hudson and just laugh maniacally, field a team of 8 middle infielders, and laugh maniacally.

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on Jul 5, 2008 11:26 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

/laughs maniacally.

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on Jul 5, 2008 11:26 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

The Cubs are doing it, and doing it well.

by xrickx on Jul 5, 2008 11:27 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

More valuable Casey Blake or DeRosa?

by mjschaefer on Jul 5, 2008 11:28 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

DeRosa can play 2B. But I guess Blake’s a shortstop, so I don’t know.

by xrickx on Jul 5, 2008 11:29 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

/spits up food

by Jay on Jul 5, 2008 11:29 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

The Rose.

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on Jul 5, 2008 11:29 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Sign our top-8 Boras client draft pick.

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on Jul 5, 2008 11:28 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

i don’t want escobar. especially with a first name that starts with A.

by Gradyforpresident on Jul 5, 2008 11:24 PM EDT to parent up   1 recs

I saw Gamel here in Hawaii during the HWL...

...and the guy can rake. Lets get him.

by OscarDog on Jul 6, 2008 12:01 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I don’t think that’s realistic, but I’m not the one cutting the deal. But I’d take LaPorta and Taylor Green, the two guys mentioned in the original package.

by xrickx on Jul 5, 2008 11:24 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

That’s the beauty of it, because in my opinion Shapiro would too. God bless him for trying to wring the towel dry.

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on Jul 5, 2008 11:25 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I think Green makes more sense than Escobar. I’m not a scout, but how many guys with Escobar’s skill set actually survive in MLB?

I’d rather have Bill Mueller than Tony Pena Jr.

by xrickx on Jul 5, 2008 11:27 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

but why green? isn’t he just like hodges but not as advanced?

by Gradyforpresident on Jul 5, 2008 11:28 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

welp. he’d do well as the sizemore type player i think. any word on his glove?

by Gradyforpresident on Jul 5, 2008 11:30 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

From what I’ve read, he doesn’t do anything great, but doesn’t do anything poorly.

And why, you ask?

Because I’m not sold on Wes Hodges. And if I am sold on Hodges, I now can flip Hodges or Green for something else. Kinda like when you have Matt LaPorta and no place to put him, but he still can do great things for your organization.

by xrickx on Jul 5, 2008 11:31 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

But I really like D.

I’m talking about Escobar here.

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on Jul 5, 2008 11:31 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Even Orlando Cabrera, when in the minor leagues, showed some semblance of an ability to draw a walk. I just don’t think guys who walk 18 times a year stand a chance, even if they are 21 and in AA.

by xrickx on Jul 5, 2008 11:37 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Yeah it sucks.

But.

But.

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on Jul 5, 2008 11:39 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I just don’t know how good a 21 year old 3B prospect is in High A Ball who has a 317/398/468 line. Is that a 4-star prospect or is he only a 4-star prospect if he does the same thing in AA next year?

Baseball America “his range and arm strength at third base are just adequate”.

That’s the whole thing with Green, Escobar and all of those other Huntsville cats are doing it at AA, the point where the real prospects start to separate from the pack.

by cheech99 on Jul 5, 2008 11:33 PM EDT to parent up   1 recs

But what is Escobar doing? I’m encouraged by his increased pop this year. But if he was hitting .280 and had a .310 OBP, how would you feel about him?

by xrickx on Jul 5, 2008 11:51 PM EDT to parent up   1 recs

I’d be like sweet, because a .280 hitter is pretty valuable. And he’s fast, too. Boom. There’s our new leadoff hitter. Average and speed are all I need to evalua—

/face melts.

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on Jul 5, 2008 11:53 PM EDT to parent up   2 recs

Haha. Exactly. Which is why I think if the Indians trade Sabathia to the Dodgers, they can just take back Juan Pierre. And then the Dodgers can have Choo and Gutierrez too, cause BenFran can take RF and Pierre can take LF. And Pierre never misses a game so we don’t need to worry. So then he can hit leadoff and then Grady can hit 3rd and then I bet the Indians will contend yesterday.

by xrickx on Jul 6, 2008 12:00 AM EDT to parent up   1 recs

Plus, I’m pretty sure Joe Morgan thinks Juan Pierre is a competitor, a gamer, a tough out, a good fastball hitter, a leader, a scrappy hitter, a throwback player, gritty, and a good clubhouse presence.

by xrickx on Jul 6, 2008 12:02 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

The above exchange is exactly the reason why this is the only Indians forum worth reading.

by Jay on Jul 6, 2008 10:56 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

So who are these Phillies lower level prospects that aren’t supposed to contribute right away that are all of a sudden a supposedly hot commodity?

by cheech99 on Jul 5, 2008 11:20 PM EDT   0 recs

Is Drabek’s kid one of them?

by mjschaefer on Jul 5, 2008 11:21 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

He was the High School Player of the Year.

by mjschaefer on Jul 5, 2008 11:37 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

i think i’m gonna get drunk and watch last year’s highlights until a trade goes down.

by Gradyforpresident on Jul 5, 2008 11:30 PM EDT   0 recs

If you’re A) drunk and B) watching 2007 highlights, boy are you gonna cry when we trade Sabathia.

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on Jul 5, 2008 11:31 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Not sure I can handle the excitement of winning.

by mjschaefer on Jul 5, 2008 11:31 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I typically watch Major League when I’m in that kind of mood, and if I’m still awake at the end of it, I start watching the Jacob’s Field Best of Box Set, skipping the final few minutes of the ‘95 season and all of the ‘97 DVD.

Il faut d'abord durer.

by CU Adam on Jul 6, 2008 3:16 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I finished the bottle during the game, sorry.

by xrickx on Jul 5, 2008 11:31 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

And anyway, what are you talking about? This team is already more fun to watch. I mean, Marte started! Got two hits!

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on Jul 5, 2008 11:32 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

i agree, too, i just wish i hadn’t had both the starting pitchers going for my fantasy team tonight

by Gradyforpresident on Jul 5, 2008 11:34 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

This is one of the more painful tribe teams to watch.

by mjschaefer on Jul 5, 2008 11:36 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

holy god marte hit a home run on april 4th last year

by Gradyforpresident on Jul 5, 2008 11:35 PM EDT   0 recs

what a swing!

by Gradyforpresident on Jul 5, 2008 11:36 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Who knew that this thread would be tougher to catch up to than tonights game thread

Dear Mr. Sabean, I hear you have a reputation of being stupid. Want to deal Lincecum or Cain? You can pick THREE of these 4 players for either: Borowski, Dellucci, Blake, Byrd.

by westbrook on Jul 5, 2008 11:35 PM EDT   0 recs

Another half hour and it will have more posts.

by Toxicadam on Jul 5, 2008 11:37 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs