On Joining the Media and Asking Real Questions

by tabler84 on Jul 7, 2008 2:28 PM EDT Comment 43 comments

"Um, Mark, does it suck to just let another awesome player walk away?"

"Mark, did you think about trying to trade for Thome or Manny or Sexson or Albert Belle?"

"Hi Mark, Paul Hoynes here. Have you seen my wallet? I can't find the damn thing."

Yep, it's dreadful. It's practically soul-crushing to try to endure garbage like that. And we know that Paul and Sheldon are going to ask the lowest-common-demoronator questions, but who let Kevin Keane in? Is this a big practical joke or something?

"Mark, why don't you just trade Grady now, cause obviously you hate Cleveland fans, right?"

During the press conference thread, several posters debated the idea of trying to get credentialed for that kind of event. I'd say it's easier than most people realize, but there are longer-term effects to consider.

First, creativity can help if you really want to get in. I wanted to ask Bruce Arena some questions during the World Cup qualifying run in 2001 so I fudged my way into the press room. Ended up as the only American asking questions in Spanish to Mexico's manager. Heh.

But I'd guess that the Tribe runs a little tighter ship. So if you wanted to get in, you'd have to establish a long-term media interest. And that would bring us back to whether we even want LGT to become that kind of outfit.

Jay has, of course, addressed this issue before. LGT is a very different animal, and I give Jay some credit for sort-of defending the Sheldons of the world (though he and I disagree to some extent; I'm much more demanding, deadlines or not). But I think it's likely that if the LGT community -- more specifically, Jay and Ryan -- decided they truly wanted to become part of the credentialed media for events like this, they could do it. But once that first credential arrives, things change. Expectations change for the site, and the role of the site changes.

The real solution to the credentialed press' shenanigans is probably not to alter the nature of sites like LGT (though I'm open to the idea, and I've already advocated for traditional media to cut new trails by hiring the best bloggers). But the easiest way to get better questions is for the traditional media to perceive a problem and make changes. That doesn't happen, though, unless there is a considerably large outcry, and we all know that the bottom feeders at cleveland.com aren't upset with Hoynes, they're upset with Shapiro and Dolan.

Bottom line, I guess, is that while it sucks, it's not likely to change. And even if you wanted to elbow your way in on behalf of LGT, you'd have to be willing to see some real changes here first.

"Last question, Mark. Why trade for a guy who isn't PROVEN to be an All-Star? You're trading a Cy Young! You have to get PROVEN RESULTS THAT CAN BE, LIKE, PROVEN! I'M BILL LIVINGSTON AND I AM SO PISSED!"

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No mention of Brandon Phillips or Omar Vizquel? And you call yourself a “journalist”!

by Stinky McDingus on Jul 7, 2008 2:45 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Professional sports are moving away from the larger press corps that were/are common. The leagues realize that in the future they will need to control their content as the internet is is making broadcasting and rebroadcasting rights harder to manage. The language on today’s credentials have specific rules set about terms of the person being there (you cannot work for more than one organization) and the copyright rules are getting so tight that many organizations have been balking. In my profession, we used to complain about all the amatuers that would crowd the sidelines. These days it is less of a problem because the leagues are more strict about who they let in. I think LGT would have more trouble getting a credential now than they would have 5 years ago.

For those of you who wish for the demise of print reporters in the clubhouse, I would say be careful what you wish for. The worst and most long-winded questions came from the tv and radio guys who had to make their questions seem conversational.

by PatBordersHelmet on Jul 7, 2008 2:59 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Pat,

Who is rooting for the demise of print reporters in the clubhouse? No one that I know of. We’re rooting for a much more effective, knowledgeable print reporter to be asking questions. Period.

And what relevance does the conversational nature of questions have? I’m quite familiar with the idea of conversational copy or questions, but that does not mean they have to suck.

by tabler84 on Jul 7, 2008 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

I’m specifically refering to Munch’s inane “A fan snuck in here…” question. I thought that was the lowest point of the presser considering that they had just made the announcement they were only taking a couple more questions.

I enjoy reading this blog, but like any other blog, people are quick to criticize the media. I’m not saying the media doesn’t deserve criticism. If you want to let the slugs at the PD or any publication know you think they’re weak you should e-mail them directly not just snipe on an internet forum they’ll likely never read. It gets old.

Also, I prefer Helmet if you’re going to shorten my screen name.

by PatBordersHelmet on Jul 7, 2008 3:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Helmet,

I can’t speak for others, but if you think this is simply endless sniping without directly addressing the problem, you’re wrong.

Your complaint that “it gets old” would hold more water if this site was overrun with posters who made non-specific jabs at the media in general. But as far as I can tell, the complaints about the media are very often directed at specific, individual comments, or columns, or articles, or questions. This is the most significant press conference of the season for the team we love; it merits inspection, and when the media’s performance is so dismal, it merits criticism and, yes, derision.

by tabler84 on Jul 7, 2008 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I’m not entirely disagreeing, but towards the end of the press conference thread it got pretty bad. And I participated in it with a few jabs before I realized I was doing something I try not to.

I’m a big fan of the wit, wisdom and general knowledge that LGT fosters—which is rare and refreshing. I try not to bring down the quality of the site, but sometimes the anonymity get the better of my judgement.

by PatBordersHelmet on Jul 7, 2008 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Good takes by both of you.

And as for the last line in the post, I would say I argued extensively with Bill Livingston last night in the “trade is official” thread.

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on Jul 7, 2008 7:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Wait. Did these questions or some version of them get asked?

by afh4 on Jul 7, 2008 7:46 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

These are dramatic interpretations of questions that were actually asked.

by Voltaire on Jul 7, 2008 8:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yep. Well, maybe not the Hoynes thing, but only because I didn’t hear every question. It’s definitely possible.

By the way, your CC farewell post made my wife cry. She said, “Sports hurts. Cleveland sports hurt. But this is why I still watch with you, damn it.”

by tabler84 on Jul 7, 2008 8:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wow. Thanks for passing that along.

by afh4 on Jul 7, 2008 8:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Andrew’s like an Internet-age Harry Chapin that way. But with copyright-protected pictures. And no singing. And Chapin died in 1981, which was technically after the invention of the Internet, so I guess Andrew would be a modern, post-CompuServe Internet-age pictorial Harry Chapin.

I also lack evidence that Harry Chapin was a sports fan.

by fleerdon on Jul 7, 2008 8:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

This is a fantastic non-comment.

I did a Google image search for "Andy Marte." It turned up zero results.

by emd2k3 on Jul 8, 2008 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Couldn’t really hear all the questions on the cleveland.com feed. Just low background mumbling with Shapiro’s answers coming in loud and clear.

by odradek on Jul 7, 2008 7:50 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Isn’t that the way it should be?

Proud supporter of the Cleveland.

by fwembt on Jul 8, 2008 12:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Absolutely. Though it is interesting to hear how stupid the questions are.

by odradek on Jul 8, 2008 12:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sheldon is the least offensive of all the journalists covering the Indians (besides what we find here on LGT). I wonder how much this leads to the fans lack of perspective in these issues.

Though, if I were covering Cleveland sports for the past 20-30 years I’m not sure if I would be all that pleasant or balanced… (Journalistic professionalism aside).

Question for you: how much does the inadequacies of the Cleveland (or from any city) media play into team performance?

Yankees and Red Sox - MLB's Axis of Evil
(And ESPN is right in the middle)

by Spidey on Jul 7, 2008 10:55 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Sheldon is just awful. Plus, in this article he takes a shot at Antonetti. Them’s fightin’ words.

21 games out? What’s he getting at?

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on Jul 7, 2008 11:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ugh! That is pathetic – remarkable that he thinks any of that is funny. Well, I guess I have to revise that statement.

Yankees and Red Sox - MLB's Axis of Evil
(And ESPN is right in the middle)

by Spidey on Jul 7, 2008 11:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wow, I’ve seen all kinds of bad, but that column might rank as the worst I’ve ever seen. What on earth does his editor think when this comes in?

by tabler84 on Jul 8, 2008 9:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree it’s a terrible waste of a read. I would guess his editors welcomed the attempt at writing a clever arbitrary list that reminds them of the arbitrary lists that the kids go crazy for these days a la VH1, Maxim magazine, or those online things, what do you call ‘em, blugs, bloogs, blogs?

by PatBordersHelmet on Jul 8, 2008 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hipsters like it.

by fleerdon on Jul 8, 2008 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, I noticed that. He probably has 2008 confused with another year of futility.

I did a Google image search for "Andy Marte." It turned up zero results.

by emd2k3 on Jul 8, 2008 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The Shocker can’t avoid the awful pun (unless the Dispatch editors wrote the “Seventh-inning trouble Staggers Lee” headline on his piece.

Stagger Lee? How old is Sheldon?

I did a Google image search for "Andy Marte." It turned up zero results.

by emd2k3 on Jul 8, 2008 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Stagolee Shelton shot Billy Lyons on December 24, 1895 in St. Louis. That’s old.

Copy editors write headlines. Blame the copy desk.

by odradek on Jul 8, 2008 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Aw, come on, it’s pretty funny.

by Jay on Jul 8, 2008 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

old enough to not be aware of The Shocker

by dwight on Jul 8, 2008 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I’d say the best journalist covering the Indians, by far, is Castrovince. He gets the most access to Shapiro, it seems, and he is a good writer. Plus his blog content is really solid. His CC-only mailbag answers were probably pretty similar to the answers any of us would give if asked those questions. It is a little odd because his employer is ultimately Major League Baseball, but I don’t think it has encroached on his integrity thus far.

Terry Pluto would be a close second, but he is more of a columnist than a journalist. Plus, his time gets split between the Indians, Cavs, Browns and other sport opinions.

by Ryan Kelsey on Jul 8, 2008 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think Castrovince has improved a lot this season, and he does seem to have the best access to the front office. I don’t care much for the comedy routine that accompanies everything he writes, but it’s easy to skip over. I don’t read any of the other writers/bloggers/talkers mentioned (Ocker, Hoynes, Pluto, Roda, etc.) so I can’t compare him to them, but I would like to point out that I think Castrovince is a tremendous improvement over Justice B. Hill.

"A good body with a dull brain is as cheap as life itself."

by Fiddlesticks on Jul 8, 2008 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Castrovince has rocked this year.

by Voltaire on Jul 8, 2008 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I concur about the comedy routine. And the recurring references to Ohio University. He has a ways to go as a writer, in my opinion, but he has access and a brain, which is a start.

by odradek on Jul 8, 2008 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I have no idea why anyone would think Castrovince has more access to the front office than the other writers who’ve been in town for decades. My impression is just that he talks about it more. Sheldon calls up Shapiro, he already knows what he’s gonna say — and what he won’t say.

by Jay on Jul 8, 2008 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

maybe. But because he “talks about it more” it makes him a better journalist. We all watch the games, we all know the stats, the only thing the journalists have to offer in a raw information way is what GMs, managers, agents, scouts, players, etc. tell them. If they don’t report that to their readers, they lose a lot of their usefulness.

Also, with his effective use of his blog, he can relay this information to us more quickly. When there is a trade or rumors swirling, his blog has quickly become the first place to go for the Tribe’s side of things. Him and the Milwaukee J-S guy were way ahead of Hoynes and Ocker. That might just because they have more effective internet platforms or that they just know how to use them better, but to me, it makes Castrovince the better reporter over the other beat writers.

by Ryan Kelsey on Jul 8, 2008 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

can we get back to talking about how stressful deadlines are? i mean these guys have to do work like every day that they work and turn it in.

by Brick. on Jul 8, 2008 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yea, unless you wanna work 40 hours a week

by Roger Dorn on Jul 8, 2008 9:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The only thing the journalists have to offer in a raw information way is what GMs, managers, agents, scouts, players, etc. tell them.

I disagree, though maybe your “in a raw information way” corrects it. Good journalists have powers of observation and insight too. And analytical abilities.

Ocker and Hoynes were flying from Minneapolis to Detroit when the trade went down. Castrovince was too, but he can probably blog from the airport.

The other guys email their stories back to the PD or ABJ and wait to have them posted.

by odradek on Jul 8, 2008 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

yeah- observation and insight can be useful but as far as raw information- we can do that too. As far as analysis for traditional media baseball journalists, I just don’t expect much.

Like I said, maybe the flaw was simply a better system for getting the information to readers quickly. If Castrovince can get his info to us on his blog, Ocker and Hoynes should be able to too. I don’t visit Ohio.com very often, but I can say that cleveland.com is terrible. The sports section is confusing, and difficult to navigate. They mix stories and “blog” entries. I really wish the PD would get a better web system. I think the Plain Dealer’s overall content is pretty good (excluding Hoynes and Branson Wright, Bill Livingston, and Bud Shaw) and I wish there was a nicer way to read it online since I’m out of their market.

by Ryan Kelsey on Jul 8, 2008 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I hear there is another big re-design - or re-formatting - in the works for the PD’s website. We all know it needs it. As I’ve mentioned before, there’s no evidence that PD sports writers actually know what blogging is. Occasionally they post stuff under the title of blog, but they could call it an almanac, too, and that wouldn’t make it so.

And so there we are again: Either old-schoolers effectively learn new ways, or the PD brings in people who modernize things.

by tabler84 on Jul 8, 2008 6:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think they should call it a Google! And an iPod!

The new Cleveland Plain Dealer iGooglePod SportsBlog!

We are so hip! For the love of God, please link to us! We need eyeballs, whatever those are!

by Jay on Jul 8, 2008 10:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

His “talking about it more” doesn’t make him a better journalist. Shapiro doesn’t tell him much directly that we don’t already know, which is why the more seasoned guys talk about it less.

The blog obviously is all kinds of nifty.

by Jay on Jul 8, 2008 10:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don’t think he has more, but he seems to understand what Shapiro et al. are talking about, which makes his access more useful.

by odradek on Jul 8, 2008 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

bingo

by Voltaire on Jul 8, 2008 11:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Castrovince didn’t go to Minneapolis with the Indians. He was planning to take the long weekend off – somebody else covered those games and he has an intern for the summer. He ended up doing some work before Monday but he was probably better off not being in Minneapolis.

Just like umpires, baseball writers get vacation days during the baseball season.

Jensen Lewis flew to Buffalo rather than Cleveland after the game Sunday in order to pick up his car and missed the announcement on the flight. He heard the news on his radio.

by palcal on Jul 9, 2008 1:18 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs