Byrd to Red Sox
The PTBNL (unless we get cash), thanks to East Coast Hype, will automatically project as our best prospect.
over 3 years ago
nickjs21
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I hope there IS a PTBNL. The press release talks about a player OR cash. Any rumors/theories about who the player might be?
I think there will be a PTBNL…our window to name goes through January, so my guess is we’ll find someone off a list we want.
and I’m assuming the cash is just a safety net against the possibility of all the players on the list completely crapping out or getting hurt
To which I’ll add: I’ll bet the list doesn’t suck.
by fleerdon on Aug 12, 2008 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Are you sure? After searching online I cannot find anything suggesting that a Player To Be Named Later couldn’t have been on the 40-man at the time of the trade (so long as the player wasn’t identified until after the season).
by Peter Bendix on Aug 12, 2008 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions
This is after the non-waiver deadline.
And anyway, no, there’s no way Charlie Zink is the PTBNL.
Steel Nick
I understand that, but since the return is a PTBNL, is there a rule saying that such a player must not have been on the 40-man roster at the time of the trade?
Charlie Zink is a pipe dream, I understand, but now I’m curious as to whether or not he’d even be allowed.
by Peter Bendix on Aug 12, 2008 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Just to clarify, you mean that since the Indians can pick the player during the offseason, can they pick someone on the 40-man that didn’t have to pass through waivers?
In that case, I don’t know, but I’d still guess no.
Steel Nick
Correct, that is what I’m wondering.
A friend pointed out the Javy Lopez trade in 2006: the Red Sox placed Adam Stern on waivers, but the Rays claimed him (supposedly because they were upset with the Sox for tampering with Julio Lugo). The Sox pulled him back and then sent him to the Orioles as a PTBNL after the season.
So I guess it is acceptable.
by Peter Bendix on Aug 12, 2008 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions
I heard this exact scenario suggested by the Reds guy on XM yesterday in the context of the Dunn deal – if the players you want don’t clear waivers, you just wait until after the season and get them then.
Except that waiver rule is intended to limit player movement with respect to contending in the current season. Since the player can’t be used by his new team during the current season, the intent of the rule is being followed.
Remember, there was that one guy who turned out to be his own PTBN — a true rental!
One time, I tampered with Julio Lugo, thought I’d TOTALLY gotten away with it. Turns out, what Lugo did: he snuck into my room and poked dozens of tiny holes into my socks, which got bigger and bigger over time. THAT taught me.
by fleerdon on Aug 12, 2008 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Also!
It would appear that both Aaron Laffey and Zach Jackson will be good to go on Thursday, which should be Byrd’s next start if I’m looking at the schedule right. Laffey will be on regular rest, Jackson a little bit longer.
Steel Nick
I forgot we also have Huff in Buffalo, but he pitched on the 10th and unless we can move someone up to Thursday and replace Byrd’s start on Friday, I still think it will be Laffey or Jackson.
Steel Nick
Just read a recent BA blog that pointed out that Huff does not need to added to the 40 this off-season, although he is a storng contender for next year. Have to think that factors in somewhere in the decison making process
Plus, Huff is being limited to about 5 innings or 60-70 pitches per start now to limit his innings total since he threw so few last season. He’s not getting added or called up this year.
Was not aware. Thanks.
I’m kind of rooting for Jackson. If it pisses off Laffey and he gets this mental grudge with the FO for looking over him, fine then, call him up. But I would really be pleased if Jackson turned out to be a league average (Paul Byrd-esque) starting pitcher in the majors.
Steel Nick
Already got my pink Sawx jersey customized with “COBRA” on the back.
Burn on, big river, burn on...
by Turkmenbashi on Aug 12, 2008 4:19 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Bet they wish they hadn’t leaked the story about HGH now.
Steel Nick
by nickjs21 on Aug 12, 2008 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Heh, yeah. Paulie’s gonna go all GOD WARRIOR on those punks.
Burn on, big river, burn on...
by Turkmenbashi on Aug 12, 2008 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I was going to suggest Felix Doubront, but no, he’s too good to be on the list. He’s not comparable with cash.
Steel Nick
Cleveland.com. How I love thee. Comments from the Byrd article:
Leading off a player to be named, batting second a player to be named….......whose sitting in my box seats—-a person to be named other than me.
My sentiments exactly! My position as a season ticket holder is now over!!
I didn’t know anyone could get so worked up about the Cobra.
Also from the article:
As Byrd packed his bags this afternoon at Progressive Field, he told reporters, “I’m not very lucid right now. I’m saying some funny things. Give me a half hour.”
I always like Byrd quotes for some reason.
Steel Nick
Sox fans have to be stoked, after all, their #1 fan on ESPN said of his 5 inning, 2 runs allowed outing in the ALCS … “There’s no way that wasn’t the greatest moment of his pitching career. He’s Paul Byrd, for God’s sake. ” Thing is, that’s about right.
I’m assuming you partied on the streets afterwards as well? It felt like we’d won the series, no? Oh god…here comes the depression again….
by supermarioelia on Aug 12, 2008 8:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Any idea what the tribe can expect in return? It is just 2 months of Paul Byrd, but he is better than the 5th starter of most contenders, so it really isn’t his marginal value with respect to the tribe, but his marginal value for all contenders.
Oh E5. His clairvoyance does not extend to Jay banning him, evidently.
I’ll admit it, sometimes it was funny to read his rants. Maybe SBN can create like, a block function of some kind where I could toggle them on/off.
If you need me, I'll be senselessly rooting for Sizemore 40/40 for the remainder of 2008.
I’ll say this about 2008 Indians baseball… The collapse was unambiguous, and the rebound has been both thorough and cathartic. This team has been about 2009 since May and it shows.
by fleerdon on Aug 12, 2008 5:12 PM EDT reply actions
And if I ever own a racing horse or a sloop, I’m naming it East Coast Hype.
by fleerdon on Aug 12, 2008 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m actually going to miss Byrd and his double-pump.
It looked a lot prettier in game 4 of the ALCS than it will in a Red Sox uniform.
by PatBordersHelmet on Aug 12, 2008 5:34 PM EDT reply actions
In his press conference Shapiro instructed the media to not pay attention to the player coming back. The motivations for the deal were a) giving opportunity for others to pitch at the MLB level for further evaluation (Jackson, Bullington, Laffey), b) giving Byrd a chance to pitch in a pennant race, and c) payroll relief. From the sounds of it, if they do get a player back, it will be a player that wouldn’t be expected to contribute at the MLB level.
Just to add to this point, see this.
The Red Sox are short on pitching at the back end of their rotation and were able to get Byrd on the cheap. The 37-year-old right-hander had cleared waivers, and the Red Sox are getting him either for an organizational player or a nominal cash payment, in the $10,000 range. Byrd was so lousy in the first half of the season (3-10, 5.47 ERA) that Cleveland GM Mark Shapiro couldn’t give him away before the trading deadline.
by FranklinScott on Aug 12, 2008 7:42 PM EDT up reply actions
I cannot understand why they could not get more. Even with only 8 starts, he is 1 win better than the 5th starter dreck that the red sox, white sox, and yankees are throwing out there. These teams are highly leveraged (i.e. 1 win now is worth much more to them than it does at the beginning of the season), so arguably he should have the worth of a 2 win player.
But his value is only what other teams want to pay. I guess the other teams did not even want to pay his salary. I think the yankees and especially the white sox made a major error by not offering more.
PD says the Red Sox are assuming the approximately $2M left on Byrd’s contract. Between Byrd and Sabathia, that’s about $7M saved. But you have to figure anticipated attendance revenue is down, so it’s not like the Indians are rolling in it.
Still, an extra dime here or there adds up. Maybe the Indians can now splurge a little and sign top five-round draft picks Haley and Putnam.
If Boston were willing to pay the remainder of Byrd’s contract, they would have claimed him on waivers.
"A good body with a dull brain is as cheap as life itself."
by Fiddlesticks on Aug 12, 2008 8:02 PM EDT up reply actions
I sure hope we sign them, especially Haley. There had been rumors we already had a deal in place and were waiting to announce (due to us signing him over-slot).
I sure hope we don’t lose them, particularly Haley – his projectable power arm would be a nice addition to the system. If the Byrd trade helps us do that, then the trade is likely worth it, even if we don’t get a quality PTBNL in return.
Essentially, it would be trading Byrd for Haley in a sense – I’d take that. :-)
Just my 2 cents.
The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.
Some weird stuff in the reporting. The comments on boston.com (again vox populi) say the Sox aren’t giving up more than a little bit of money: “A virtually no cost rental for the next 2 months.”
Hoynes also says Byrd was traded for cash. No mention of PTBNL. Then he drops this paragraph, which is quite amazing:
“When the Indians played Boston in the ALCS last year, the news broke that Byrd had purchased large quantities of HGH before it was banned by MLB. The San Francisco Chronicle broke the story the morning of Game 7 and there was suspicion that George Mitchell, the author of the Mitchell report that investigated steroid use among MLB players, may have leaked it since he’s a minority owner of the Red Sox.”
Whose suspicion? It was clear the Chronicle had the story and wanted to release it at the most opportune time for coverage. Where does this Mitchell stuff come from?
I believe I read an article in the PD that said the entire Indians organization was suspicious. I’ll try to find a link.
One of Byrd’s first responses was “Doesn’t George Mitchell work for the Red Sox?”
by JulioBernazard on Aug 13, 2008 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions
I didn’t know that about the source of the Chronicle article. And I didn’t know Byrd was suspicious. I just thought it was normal journalistic timing. You have a good story, you release it when you get the biggest bang for your buck.
But here’s what The Chronicle said about its sources on October 21:
“The records reviewed by The Chronicle included Byrd’s purchase and shipping orders, payment data and other information, including his birth date and Social Security number. The records were provided by a confidential news source, who said the orders were consistent with an athlete’s personal use of growth hormone.”
So the Mitchell rumors might have credence.
While some attention is paid to “bang” timing, generally a journalist will run with a story immediately, unless he thinks publishing it will impede his ability to keep digging for the even-bigger story behind it. When it comes to the competitive aspects of being a journalist, being the first person (and organization) to report the story trumps everything else.
I agree, except when you know you have a story locked up and no one else can touch it. Then you try to wait for the right moment. There’s always a risk someone can get their nose under the tent and beat you out of a story, but when you have confidential information and the source has agreed to give you exclusive, you try to wait for the bang.
“I don’t know if the trade is ironic because of the HGH thing,” said Byrd. “I think it’s more ironic because it’s the team that beat us. I wasn’t a Red Sox fan this off-season, let’s put it that way. Putting on that Red Sox jersey may take a minute or two.
by JulioBernazard on Aug 13, 2008 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Awesome quote.
The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay
by Buckeye Brad on Aug 13, 2008 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Cut me some slack, Jay. I’ve been hanging onto that for weeks.
by fleerdon on Aug 13, 2008 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Here’s the link to the indians.com article.
Shapiro says the PTNBL or cash back is of little importance compared to the other deals.
Although he does say that ownership is committed to applying the money saved on Byrd (and presumably any cash they receive later?) to next year’s payroll. So, maybe this is part of an effort to sign a free agent closer.
...or just money used to offset the contractual increases in the existing players.
Sorry for the pessimism.
More money is more money, period. The Indians probably face millions of dollars in lost ticket revenue — some this season, mostly in 2009 season ticket sales, which will be awful — and it makes sense that the $7 million in saved salary (Sabathia and Byrd) will offset that in part. Having said that, the bottom line is that the club has $2 million more than they had yesterday, and that has to be a good thing.
Call me naive, I actually believe that the Indians generally will refuse to deficit-spend but also are looking to take zero profit. For the kind of capital the Dolans have tied up in owning the club, it doesn’t make sense to make big compromises just to make $10 million or even $20 million in profit. Their profit is going to come from selling the team someday or possibly from growing STO beyond broadcasting the Indians.
Who was it who said: “You don’t make money running baseball teams, you make money selling baseball teams”?
Also, I have also heard [the Indians]will use the cash savings or the cash they get from the Red Sox to sign three guys from this year’s draft: Stowell (rumored to have signed already today), Zach Putnam and Trey Haley. Lastoria
Tony’s hyping Steel Lewis as the call-up over Jackson. That could be fun. Ish.
by fleerdon on Aug 13, 2008 10:12 AM EDT reply actions
Did you see the comments on that site? That “Dennis” guy complains about how little we got for Sabathia and now Byrd, how bad the draft was and how we’re going to use the extra money to overpay guys we overdrafted (he thinks we reached for Haley and Putnam). I haven’t seen those sentiments here. Of course I could be wrong, but his comments just seem idiotic, or way too speculative at least.
I’m guessing that “Dennis” is Dennis Nosco, who writes occasionally at Swerb’s Blurbs as have been very critical of the Indians’ drafts and our return for CC. Some of his writings seem waaaaay off base (in one trade scenario he had the Indians recieving Braun back from Milwaukee). We’ve had a discussion about him on this site a couple months ago.
I e-mailed him about his article on what the Indians should expect from CC (before the trade, obviously) and his ridiculous proposals. This is what he responded:
Again, setting your expectations low yields an easily satisfied fan. We get two draft picks for CC. LaPorta and Gamel should be our bottom line in this deal.and
I agree no way the Brewers trade Braun or Gallardo to us in the deal for CC straight up. But I can dream, can’t I.
If you’re writing analysis about what to except from a trade then you should provide realistic scenarios, not “dream” scenarios.
The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay
by Buckeye Brad on Aug 13, 2008 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions
You’ll note that Nosco’s articles have apparently been purged from Swerbs — just go try to find one. The only remnant of his old rantings now is his guest-posts on Lastoria’s personal blog.
Yeah, I was actually trying to find his articles to post the link here, and they’re all gone. I guess he really pissed them off.
The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay
by Buckeye Brad on Aug 13, 2008 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Supposedly we may well sign Bryce Stowell too. He’s been pitching very well in the Cape Cod league from what I understand.
I’m sure every dollar helps in these situations.
Are you sure we don’t already have Steel Lewis on the club?
Actually, the guy we have is Stomp Lewis. This other guy might have to be … Chomp Lewis? Shout Lewis? Pound Lewis? Hiss Lewis?
Scott Lewis, as the left hander, would be Steel (iron/steel // right/left). Also, his first initial is “S,” which is really all I had in mind.
I’m happy with nearly any Scott Lewis nickname that doesn’t reference Eurotrip. I’m amenable to Star Trek references—Chief Engineer Lewis, “Givin’ ‘er all I got, Cap’n” Lewis, etc.
Then again, how about Clap Lewis? No, wait…
by fleerdon on Aug 13, 2008 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions
1. What was the reference to Eurotrip?
2. What’s wrong with referencing Eurotrip?
For a crappy teen flick, there was a lot of hilarious stuff in there, starting with the Matt Damon cameo.
by Jay on Aug 13, 2008 8:20 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Please tell me that now that the Rays Crawford is out for 6 weeks that Dellucci gets moved next. PLEASE. For baseball bats and practice balls. Anything …
by SpringTrainingFun on Aug 13, 2008 2:51 PM EDT reply actions
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