Byrd to Boston for "insignificant prospect"?

by Travis17 on Aug 14, 2008 9:02 AM EDT Comment 41 comments

I read one of the local papers yesterday athat mentioned that the Indians will receive cash and/or an "insignificant prospect" (or maybe the phrase was "insignificant minor-leaguer") from Boston in exchange for Byrd.

Maybe I'm mistaken here, but isn't Byrd a free agent at the end of this season? And I thought I read that he is a Type A player, meaning he'll bring a high draft pick as compensation. I'm thinking that would've been worth more than what the Indians received in the trade. Does anyone else feel this way? Am I getting my facts wrong? WOuld be interested to hear some insight from you guys out there...

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If he finishes strong ...only a Type B

He is currently BELOW type B. A type B would draw one pick. A good finish might sneak him in there. If do get a pick, they would have paid $2 million (his remaining salary) plus whatever the cash and/or an “insignificant prospect” adds up to.

by volapuk on Aug 14, 2008 9:15 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Correct, he is below a Type B.

It’s clear to me that the Indians’ internal analysis determined that Byrd was not going to end up as a Type B — remember that both Wins and Win% are major components of the formula — simply because they would have valued a sandwich round pick at greater than $2 million.

by Jay on Aug 14, 2008 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think there might still be a chance, though small, of Byrd reaching type B status.

To me that’s what the possible PTBNL portion of the trade idicated. That is, if he does manage to barely scrape out B status, we get a player as opposed to salary relief. Shapiro has been willing to eat salary to get better prospects all the time. I wouldn’t shock me if this were more of the same.

by KevinV on Aug 14, 2008 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I know Shapiro eats salary all the time — I mention it all the time — but we did not eat any salary in this trade.

by Jay on Aug 14, 2008 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I know that you know that, I was just using it to explain my line of thinking. Let me clarify:

Are we really sure that BOS has already paid CLE for all of Byrd’s 2008 salary? The press release says:

The Cleveland Indians today announced the club has completed a trade with the Boston Red Sox, sending RHP Paul Byrd to Boston in exchange for a player to be named or cash. The player to be named must be agreed upon on or before Jan. 15, 2009.

My reading of that quote, based on what I know of Shapiro, is that we agreed to condotionally pay the remainder of Byrd’s 2008 contract and that there are 2 possible outcomes of this trade:

1. We get cash, likely the remainder of Byrd’s 2008 contract. This would make the trade a pure slary dump for us.

2. We get a PTBNL. I think that the PTBNL clause would get triggered if Byrd manages to get type B status. If he does, we do not get reimbursed for paying Byrd’s remaining 2008 salary and get a player instead.

I think #1 is far more likely than #2, but Shapiro likes to minimize risk. I think that would extend to the risk of losing a prospect if Byrd reaches type B status.

by KevinV on Aug 14, 2008 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

That reading is not correct — it’s just not the way that cash flows in MLB trades.

Boston doesn’t pay Cleveland for Byrd’s salary — they pay Byrd’s salary to Byrd, since they now own his contract.

That is a “standard” trade. In situations where a team is playing a former player’s salary, they are actually including cash in the deal as a separate line item — i.e., the Indians sent Blake and $2.5 million in cash to the Dodgers, the Dodgers sent back Santana and Meloan. Now the Dodgers have to pay Blake for his contract, which is now between Blake and the Dodgers, and they simply have an extra $2.5 million in the bank to do it with.

So while MLB would only approve the trade if the cash being sent matches the contract being sent, they actually are not connected once the trade is complete — if Blake got traded again, the Dodgers would keep the cash, because only the player and his contract are joined at the hip, not the cash.

In this deal, the Indians did not send any cash along with the player. Could there be a clause where if Byrd becomes a Type B player in the offseason, the Indians have to send $2 million to the Red Sox and the Red Sox have to send back a B prospect chosen from an already negotiated list? I can’t tell you that it’s not possible, I guess, but (a) I really don’t think Selig would approve such a deal, and it would require his approval, and (b) I don’t think a clause anywhere near that unusual could be in the deal without being reported.

The Indians will get back a very low-level prospect, we’re talking about a Bear Bay or Jeff Stevens situation at best and more likely a minor league roster filler, or they’ll get a token cash payment, probably under $100,000 — one reporter speculated it could be just $10,000.

by Jay on Aug 14, 2008 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

That makes sense, I did read it wrong. I forgot that cash would have been mentioned as a seperate line item.

Though Selig would have to approve that clause, due to the $1M+ cash involved, why do you think he wouldn’t approve it?

by KevinV on Aug 14, 2008 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

My sense based on his history of approvals and forced-revisions is that he doesn’t like too much fiddling around with cash transactions — he likes for it to be clear and straightforward, and he likes for the cash exchange to be completed as soon as possible. He also wants to avoid the appearance of clubs outright buying players for cash, and if this clause was triggered, that’s what it would appear to be — the Indians sending the Red Sox $2 million for a prospect.

It’s also just not that great of a deal for the Indians at that point, unless the prospect is at least halfway significant.

by Jay on Aug 14, 2008 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I can see that. Baseball has resisted the buying and selling of players for a while now. I’d rather they didn’t. I’d love it if the Indians had the option to just sell Blake for say $10M. That would give them the chance to pursue a FA option for 2009 that they otherwise might not instead of having to get prospects back that won’t contribute in 2009.

by KevinV on Aug 14, 2008 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Can you imagine Jeffry Loria without this restriction?

If you need me, I'll be senselessly rooting for Sizemore 40/40 for the remainder of 2008.

by gte619n on Aug 14, 2008 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

"It's hard to win when you don't score." Cliff Lee, 9/28/05.

by Harry Doyle on Aug 14, 2008 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Also, to get the pick they’d have to offer him arbitration. Who’s to say he wouldn’t just accept it & take the cash?

Despite all of my best intentions, I have not, in fact, grown up to be a debaser.

by zempf on Aug 14, 2008 9:42 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Actually, this isn’t true.

There was an obscure rule change in the last CBA. As of this season, clubs get compensation for departing Type B free agents regardless of whether they offer that player arbitration.

by Jay on Aug 14, 2008 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

8. Please do not make your first contribution a FanPost or FanShot masquerading as a FanPost .

by Brick. on Aug 14, 2008 10:26 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

This is the current User Agreement, which he apparently read right before posting this.

By clicking “Post”, you acknowledge that you have read and understood the Ground Rules for posting at Let’s Go Tribe.

Briefly, the rules are:

No political talk.
No personal attacks.

No trolling or flame-baiting.
No profanity, this is a family-friendly site.
No posting under multiple identities.

No blatant site pimping.
Enjoy yourself, and try to help others do the same.

WE STRONGLY RECOMMEND THAT YOU DO NOT START OFF BY WRITING YOUR OWN FANPOST. It’s a much better idea for you to start by reading others’ posts and responding in the Comments area, to get a feel for what others are already talking about. This will help you avoid looking foolish and getting mad later on.

For more details, please read the full Ground Rules for the site.

by Jay on Aug 14, 2008 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

yeah, i know he didn’t break the rules, technically, since it wasn’t a FanPost, but this is a FanPost, even if it’s a FanShot in name. There’s no link to a story, no news to report. It’s “something to discuss” that could have been an a appropriate post in the byrd thread.

by Brick. on Aug 14, 2008 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

getting mad later on

should be “getting Brick mad later on”

by JulioBernazard on Aug 14, 2008 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i guess it isn’t a fanshot, it’s actually a fanpost (i had too many tabs open). even worse.

by Brick. on Aug 14, 2008 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

What about backseat modding?

by Toxicadam on Aug 14, 2008 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i’m not even in the car. i’m on the street yelling at drivers.

by Brick. on Aug 14, 2008 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Travis17, if you’re reading this, you’re in the clear … we didn’t realize that you’d been an occasional poster as far back as 2006.

by Jay on Aug 14, 2008 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It will be a little while before legitimate usernames are created that reference Mr. Hafner.

by jhon on Aug 14, 2008 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

when does it become ironic

by Gradyforpresident on Aug 14, 2008 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Actually, this was not his first contribution. He was active about a year ago.

However, his first contribution was a fan post. (Or what ever it was called two years ago.

"It's hard to win when you don't score." Cliff Lee, 9/28/05.

by Harry Doyle on Aug 14, 2008 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

mainly a lurker then…. i just learned something about how to look at past activity though.

by Brick. on Aug 14, 2008 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Always happy to help.

Still, since his first contribution was a fan post, perhaps your criticism relates back.

"It's hard to win when you don't score." Cliff Lee, 9/28/05.

by Harry Doyle on Aug 14, 2008 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You guys are creeping me out with this stalker-esque activity.

Who cares about his posting history?

by JulioBernazard on Aug 14, 2008 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

BOOOO LeBron!

by Brick. on Aug 14, 2008 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

They just picked up a scorer from MIL. Exciting stuff.

by JulioBernazard on Aug 14, 2008 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Point guard Mo Williams, I believe – the press says it should help to take the scoring pressure and ability to create offense off of LeBron and “Boobie” Gibson.

The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.

by indiansfan on Aug 14, 2008 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You wanna get creeped out? I could post your activity instead.

The issue of drive-by posting is significant. I hate to see someone wrongly accused.

"It's hard to win when you don't score." Cliff Lee, 9/28/05.

by Harry Doyle on Aug 14, 2008 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Defending a cat is cool. The anger and sleuthing seemed e over the top to me.

by JulioBernazard on Aug 14, 2008 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I’m so self-absorbed, I only read my own posting history.

by Toxicadam on Aug 14, 2008 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

He needs to be assigned a photo by the mods at the least

by Roger Dorn on Aug 14, 2008 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

and by photo I mean avatar or whatever these little pictures are called

by Roger Dorn on Aug 14, 2008 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

He’s posted before, so I gave him something fairly lenient.

by Ryan on Aug 14, 2008 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Just to clarify for everybody, he appeared to be a new user when he first signed up. It appears that after he first posted this, he went back and “claimed” his old-platform UserID and posting history.

by Jay on Aug 14, 2008 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs