Jamey Carroll

by odradek on Aug 27, 2008 12:12 AM EDT Comment 80 comments

If Casey Blake did not exist for Eric Wedge, it would be necessary to invent him. Like many people, I was relieved to see the Indians trade Blake. It seemed like an opportunity to find out finally what the team (particularly Marte) could do, once Wedge had no choice but to play someone other than Casey.

But damn if Wedge didn't find another guy to fill the role of gamer. Perhaps these sorts of gamers are projections of Wedge's view of himself as a player, and of what he considers to be the ideal ball player.

Carroll—whose middle name is Blake, after all—is from Evansville, the other end of the state from Wedge's hometown, Fort Wayne. (Don Mattingly is also from Evansville, by the way.) Jamey's alma mater, University of Evansville, even plays Wichita State in baseball.

Do the Indians need this again? Jamey Carroll will be 35 years old next year. He is on a pace this season to have the second-highest number of at bats in his major league career. He already has the second-highest total bases in his major league career. He has a career OPS+ of 81. His minor league career was similarly undistinguished. He had a .679 OPS over 785 games in the minors.

Considering his current favored status, I wonder: Has Carroll played himself into a starting role for next year? Maybe the general manager will remember previous infatuations—Ramon Vazquez says hi—and forbid Wedge from playing Jamey every goddamn day. But, as we've seen, Wedge can be foxy when it comes to filling out his lineup card.

Carroll has proved to be a valuable utility guy. The Tribe had a utility guy name of Blake who became a superutility guy and then got stuck every day at third base. Perhaps this is just another way of grousing about the treatment of Marte, but is it possible that the manager is smitten all over again?

0 recs | Comment 80 comments

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

This is unfair to Casey Blake. He’s really on a utility player in theory-if you actually look at his career he’s been a starter at some position primarily ever since he got established in the league-be that RF or 3B. And we love to act like there was some great loss of value in Casey not being used as a utility but his positions are 1B-3B-RF. Those aren’t particularly difficult positions to field in the majors; that’s why true utility players, who can play middle infield and corner infield, are considerably more common-they’re more valuable.

Look, the Blake situation was not a great one but Casey Blake is good major leaguer and defensible as a starter at a couple of positions on many teams.

Jamey Carroll is not. He has certainly not played himself into any kind of starting role or even into the discussion. We always act like Wedge is INSANE about this kind of thing but there’s really only one data point and that’s the Blake situation. I don’t really know what Ramon Vazquez has to do with this but he had 67 ABs for the Indians in 2006. That doesn’t seem like much of an infatuation. Phillips wasn’t passed over for anyone in particular he was passed over because he was terrible and his attitude was terrible.

We’ll sign a 3B or trade for one. It might be Casey but we’ll definitely have a starter-Carroll is not even on the radar for this kind of thing. As soon as presented with someone with any kind of track record-be that Bill Mueller, Casey Blake, it doesn’t matter-Wedge will play him.

Mark Shapiro still runs this team-we’re not going to start a player with an OPS of +81 the season before. And we’re not going to cannibalize anyone else’s positional value for that player to start either.

Do the Indians need this again?

Need what? It lacks nuance to act like this is just like Blake or Dellucci or whatever. It’s not really. At all.

In fact, I’m glad the Indians finally have this-a reasonable utility player. It took us long enough to find one.

All that said, the Marte situation is worth grousing about. We don’t have to make up absurd hypotheticals in which Jamey Carroll starts; we can just complain about the reality of Marte.

by afh4 on Aug 27, 2008 12:29 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs

Mark Shapiro still runs this team-we’re not going to start a player with an OPS of +81 the season before. And we’re not going to cannibalize anyone else’s positional value for that player to start either.

That should probably say a 35 year old with an OPS+ of 81. Call if the Franklin clause.

by afh4 on Aug 27, 2008 12:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I’m partly goofing around (Ramon Vazquez!), but a couple of points:

You say Blake was a starter ever since he got established—which is to say, became a starter. Blake did not start more than 19 games in a season before he joined the Indians in 2003 as a 29 year old. He spent his first four seasons in the majors as a rarely used 3B-1B-DH. If I read this your way it says once Blake became a starter, he was a starter. Which is true. He never was much of a utility player—he never got a chance.

It is not an absurd hypothetical to indicate that Carroll is on a pace to get the second-most plate appearances of his seven-year big-league career. Obviously, much of this had to do with Asdrubal’s failure earlier on, and Barfield’s finger, but it’s a fact that Jamey is getting more at bats than usual.

And, aren’t the Indians already cannibalizing Marte’s positional value every time Carroll starts or pinch hits for him?

by odradek on Aug 27, 2008 1:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don’t understand the point about Blake. He couldn’t even be called a major leaguer before he came to the Indians. He had 112 ABs in 4 seasons. Ever since Blake has been a player in the majors, he’s been an effective starter at a single position with his supposed versatility used sparingly. He was never even a bench player, unless your willing to call somone with considerably less ABs in 4 seasons than Andy Gonzalez had in one a bench player.

To say another way, he wasn’t a rarely used anything really. He was a minor leaguer. The larger point, of course, is that Blake was good enough, right away, to be starting for a bad team. Over time he put up seasons that would’ve let him start almost anywhere. And all this makes him nothing like Jamey Carroll.

If you’re not genuinely asserting that Carroll has any shot at starting and instead just complaining about his PT well, you answered your own question. It’s Asdrubal and Barfield-no more real explaining has to be done. It’s easy to make it into one more entry into the Eric Wedge is an Idiot! file but it’s not really accurate. Who else was he going to play?

And, no. Marte’s positional value, as I’m using that term, is linked to his being a 3B. My reference was to moving JP off SS.

Obviously the Marte situaton is being terribly botched but Carroll isn’t the primary instrument of that-Blake was and, to a much larger degree, Wedge is. Carroll has all of, wait for it, 68.2 innings at 3B. In contrast, he has 544.1 at 2B. Should Wedge not use Carroll at all at 3B? Eh, probably not. But Carroll playing is just another way to keep Marte off the field, not evidence that Wedge has found a new favorite player.

It seems clear to me that Wedge probably doesn’t care one way or the other about Carroll-he just doesn’t want to play Marte. He’s never wanted to play Marte and he’s not ever going to do it, at least not in the way I want him to.

Again, that’s worth complaining about but it’s also sort of a dead horse.

I guess what I’m saying is that we don’t have to find creative new ways to interpret the Marte situation. It’s not about the other guys and Wedge’s psycho-emotional connection to them. It’s about Wedge’s well documented refusal to manage Marte’s career reasonably.

by afh4 on Aug 27, 2008 1:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don’t understand the usage of cannibalize here? Are you saying that playing anyone other than Peralta at SS is a form of cannibalizing? And, if so, how is it so?

I never exhaled.

by elsandito on Aug 27, 2008 9:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Moving Peralta to 3B is making the choice to devour a large part of an Indians asset. This is true of any time you move a player down the spectrum.

My point is that if we’re talking about Carrol as a starter and we’re talking about him at either 2B or SS, you’re probably talking about moving Peralta which is choosing to lower his value. That might be justified sometimes but that’s what it is.

by afh4 on Aug 27, 2008 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Tell me what’s wrong with this illustration. I will use extremes to make a point, but bear with me.
I have 13 position players, 12 of whom carry identical OPS with an avg of .150 and they are terrific defensively. The last guy is a SS who plays an avg SS but would play a slightly below avg first base. His OPS is well above the 12 other guys and he carries a .300 avg. Moving the SS to first would lower his league value but improve his team’s chances of winning, would it not? His bat is still in the lineup, but a better defensive player is at SS.

I never exhaled.

by elsandito on Aug 27, 2008 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I’m not really interested in having this discussion and it’s not what I was saying. If you want to have a broad discussion about positional value, go for it-I’m sure someone wants to. But I’ve had that conversation enough times.

All I’m saying is that in this context, moving Peralta off SS to find a way to get Jamey Carroll, or even a player quite a bit better then Carroll, into the lineup is cannibalizing JP’s positional value.

by afh4 on Aug 27, 2008 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

You’re right about Blake. I guess that’s what I was trying to say—he really never was a utility player or superutility player. I believe that was the presumption of his talent in Toronto and Minnesota. And I didn’t understand your cannibal term, but now that it’s explained, I get it and agree. It would be lunacy to move Peralta off SS.

I don’t believe Wedge is an idiot, at all. He’s a pretty good manager, slightly above average in my estimation. And Jamey Carroll is a fine utility player and occasional pinch-hitter, even if he’s used too much. When Barfield was injured, Wedge started Carroll. When Asdrubal came back, Carroll still started. He’s still starting now, even though the Indians have a second baseman.

I think Wedge sometimes commits to players—or rejects them—for reasons other than pure skill assessment. He appears to me to favor certain types of players—this has been gone over a million times, of course—and I feel the elevated status of Carroll even after Cabrera returned from Buffalo indicates that Wedge does care about Carroll. And I don’t mean that in a facetious fashion, but that he prefers to play players such as Carroll.

I am somewhat concerned that if Carroll is on the team next year he will be starting more than his talent merits. I don’t mean he would start five times a week, but that he could start two or three times a week. Wedge can bury players on his bench and never use them, and then he can player others too much. And I think Carroll might be in the latter category in 2009.

Maybe Gonzalez could play some so we would know what he does?

by odradek on Aug 27, 2008 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

that’s why true utility players, who can play middle infield and corner infield, are considerably more common-they’re more valuable.

So are you saying Carroll should be held on to next year as a utility guy? If so, I agree.

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on Aug 27, 2008 8:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Definitely. I like Carroll for what he is. He’s a lot better than Lou Merloni or Joe Inglett or Ramon Vazquez. At least he can play the positions defensively.

by afh4 on Aug 27, 2008 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don’t like seeing Carroll in there, but I think that has to do with me pining for offensive mashers at every position. Obviously, that’s not realistic, so when really forced to think about Jamey Carroll, I guess I really don’t have any problem with the way he’s been used.

He’s a utility guy, period.

If you need me, I'll be senselessly rooting for Sizemore 40/40 for the remainder of 2008.

by gte619n on Aug 27, 2008 7:16 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Honestly, I think Carroll is overpaid. We could get the same production out of Graffanino, who is down in AAA. His biggest drawback are his age and his type of injuries.

by Toxicadam on Aug 27, 2008 10:16 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I gotta say that I’m happy with Carroll’s defense and his OBP (.355). He seems to be the best utility guy we’ve had in a while. Yes he’s overpaid, but at $2.5 M next season, I don’t think that is terrible.

by hans on Aug 27, 2008 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I should have added a qualifier that it’s not really even a concern for that kind of minor money.

The big knock of Carroll going into the season was that he doesn’t perform well when given limited playtime. He hasn’t really shown that this year. He has been fairly consistent regardless of his playtime or if coming in as a pinch hitter/sub.

by Toxicadam on Aug 27, 2008 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don’t think it’s possible to overpay a player at 2.5 million dollars in the major leagues. If you have to go sign a post-arb guy I have to think 2.5 is pretty near the bottom of the pay scale.

by afh4 on Aug 27, 2008 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don’t think Carroll is a “problem.” He’s actually done reasonably well and has actually been used as a utility guy for the most part. There needs to be a solution at 3B; I wish Marte would seize the job (and that Wedge would let him). But, if he doesn’t, I don’t think the Indians are seriously thinking about Marte in that role. A bigger danger is the return of Blake, I fear.

by peter m on Aug 27, 2008 12:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

A bigger danger is the return of Blake, I fear.

When former Shocker you have, fear so much, you will not.

by Brick. on Aug 27, 2008 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

I don’t really feel like getting into it again, but since it is being confused again…

Blake is a good, sometimes very good offensive baseball player who can play multiple positions. He had a few very good years in a tribe uniform.

If we were to sign him and start him at 3rd again next year, it will because Shap/Wedge think (for incredibly good reasons) that he will out perform what Marte or any other affordable option could do at 3B.

I have no idea what this has to do with Carroll, who is a utility infielder and a fill-in for a below .500 team with injuries and a dirth of major league infielders.

by DaytonDogg on Aug 27, 2008 12:57 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

The connection is that odradek “fears” that Caroll will be used as Blake was — as a regular third baseman — rather than as a utility player. I don’t think there’s any real danger of that at all.

I DO think they may try to re-sign Blake for the reason you give — that they consider him a better option than Marte and can’t identify someone else who’s better. I hope they don’t. Partly, it’s irrational antipathy to Blake, partly it’s the fact that he’s a really limited fielder and an inconsistent, mediocre hitter (plus, he costs real money). They need a solution at 3b. Casey Blake is Casey Blake, not the solution.

by peter m on Aug 27, 2008 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I’m not concerned that Carroll will become our third baseman. I’m concerned he will be used more than he should be used: at second base, at short, at third now and then. Even at first base. I’m concerned that the manager will play him three or four games a week because he respects Carroll’s intangible qualities over his obvious limitations as a big-leaguer. The “overuse” of Blake began because there was no one else better. And then such overuse was rewarded when Blake turned out to be a pretty good—if flawed—third baseman.

by odradek on Aug 27, 2008 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well, then I don’t think there’s a big concern, as long as Asdrubal hits adequately. Assuming they keep Jhonny at SS, he’ll play most of the time, and might be spelled occasionally by Asdrubal (with Carroll playing 2B). Carroll may also spell Asdrubal from time to time. I think he’s playing more now because he’s also splitting time with Marte — he’s started six times in the last 14 games, 3 times at 3B. If we had a regular third baseman in whom the manager had confidence, Carroll wouldn’t play there much (he didn’t when Blake was on the team). That would leave him as a back-up middle infielder, which is what he’s been much of this year and where he has almost all of his AB’s.

by peter m on Aug 27, 2008 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I hope you’re right. What if Asdrubal hits .240/.310/.365 and Wedge starts looking at him the way a cannibal looks at a fat man? What if he starts to think: this guy isn’t playing the game right and I do have Carroll on the bench? His irrationality toward Marte could be projected on to another player. Wedge’s bizarre attitude toward Marte is hard to fathom.

Also, Carroll has more at bats this season that Willie has ever had in his career.

by odradek on Aug 27, 2008 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Until I realized that you meant “…Willie has ever had in one season over his career,” I was really shocked. But yeah, injuries will do that.

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on Aug 27, 2008 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

If Asdrubal hits poorly, we may see more of Carroll. But, it has to be really bad. They stuck with Asdrubal for a long time this year before they sent him down. He’s such a good fielder that he can probably be a regular even with a weak offensive performance. But, if he consistently hits .180 and doesn’t walk, Carroll (or Barfield) may get some/all of his at bats.

I agree that Wedge’s handling of Marte is, er, odd, but Marte hasn’t done a lot to help his case either. It looks to me as if Wedge is still trying to win games at times and “forgets” he’s evaluating guys for next year.

by peter m on Aug 27, 2008 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

right. Plus, they went to Barfield (who wasn’t doing all that well in AAA) before they started playing Carroll.

by DaytonDogg on Aug 28, 2008 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don’t get this ‘confidence’ issue with Marte. We’re 66-70 and not making the playoffs. What’s the big deal with getting a guy at-bats and then cutting bait on him in the offseason if you’re not satisfied? Why, now would Wedge have to be confident about anyone playing? Is there something in Wedge’s contract that if he wins 80 games he gets a bonus or something?

Pinch-hitting Carroll for Marte at this point in the season is inexcusable. I’ve had it with Wedge. He’s a younger, paler Dusty Baker.

So what if he hits .197 the rest of the season? Does it matter? I could see if Marte was a sieve in the field, but he has actually done a decent job with the glove. I don’t see the overall improvement in team dynamics by getting Jamey Carroll 15 more at bats per week.

by emd2k3 on Sep 2, 2008 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Basically you’re afraid of Jamey Carroll becoming Willie Bloomquist. That is scary.

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on Aug 27, 2008 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Jamey Carroll career OPS+: 81
Casey Blake career OPS+: 105.

Casey Blake won jobs, kept jobs, earned ABs by being a good hitter. Jamey Carroll is not a good hitter. Jamey Carroll is not capable of doing what Casey Blake did here. Wedge gave 500 ABs a year to Blake because he was good and the best option at 3B, 1B, or RF (depending on the season and the team’s situation). Carroll only has gotten time when we have had multiple injuries or players off the 25-man (i.e. Barfield on the DL, Cabrera in AAA, Blake traded).

by DaytonDogg on Aug 28, 2008 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You’re not considering positional value and defensive value. Blake has always been a shaky-average 3B and a plus RF. Carroll has been a plus defender at shortstop and second base. Their overall productivity is actuallly pretty close when you consider those factors.

by Jay on Aug 30, 2008 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

True. But this is less important because the team has 2 better middle infielders than Jamey Carroll and 0 better 3B than Casey Blake.

by DaytonDogg on Sep 1, 2008 12:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

They currently have 2 BETTER DEFENSIVE 3B than Casey Blake. (Carroll and Marte) Like Jay said, you’re overlooking defensive value by focusing only on offensive statistics.

And again, in the season, at this point, does any of this really matter?

by emd2k3 on Sep 2, 2008 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Don’t you think an OPS+ of about 120 and below average defense is worth more than a OPS+ of 75 or 80 and good defense??

It doesn’t matter now. It did when A) we were in contention and B) had Casey Blake to show off for other teams. Both those things worked. It was a very smart move to play Blake at 3rd this year. It worked by any measure.

Jamey Carroll is not anywhere near the same situation (as alleged in this fanpost). He should not play over Marte. Although, I don’t really think it matters (I feel they are both pretty crappy players that will serve as backups next year perhaps in Cleveland and perhaps elsewhere).

by DaytonDogg on Sep 2, 2008 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Don’t you think an OPS+ of about 120 and below average defense is worth more than a OPS+ of 75 or 80 and good defense??

The issue has always been that we don’t really know what number to plug in for Marte. It was widely believed a year or so ago that he’d be reasonably close to Blake’s level as an overall hitter, and mostly what he’s done since then is sit. We’ve got, like six weeks of real data on his hitting now, which is basically like having nothing. I mean, all we really know based on that is that he’s unlikely to post a 500 OPS or a 950 OPS in 2009, which is more or less exactly what we already knew.

I think in terms of 2009, the Indians are very much considering whether Carroll is good enough to be considered a credible depth option at 3B. If he is, then that makes taking a protracted chance on Marte more palatable, which makes upgrading at 3B less of a priority.

It isn’t just the rookies that are getting evaluated down the stretch this year, it’s the veterans, too. Folks can’t understand why they’re playing Dellucci — well, maybe they want to see 100 more PA out of the guy before they actually go ahead and DFA him in the offseason, see if he can get past his old injuries at some point. Is that really so crazy?

by Jay on Sep 2, 2008 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

the Indians are very much considering whether Carroll is good enough to be considered a credible depth option at 3B. If he is, then that makes taking a protracted chance on Marte more palatable, which makes upgrading at 3B less of a priority.

that is something i really didn’t think about. it is makes a ton of sense. probably more than “wedge hates marte” to be honest.

by Brick. on Sep 2, 2008 7:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yes, but Wedge hating Marte isn’t a theory, it’s a dead certainty.

by Jay on Sep 2, 2008 9:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yes. After watching Tuesday’s game, I couldn’t agree more. Marte gets a hit, scores a run, draws a walk. He then comes up with a runner on base and is asked to bunt (so Cabrera, batting ninth, can have an RBI shot). Then, in his next at bat, he’s pinch hit for with the bases loaded (more reasonable, since Choo is pretty good). Marte looked pretty annoyed, quite understandably.

If the Indians had a chance at winning the pennant, this might make sense. But, all it does under the circumstances is undermine Marte and prevent anyone from figuring out what he can and can’t do.

by peter m on Sep 3, 2008 9:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

If I’m Marte, and I’m an Indian in 2009, I’m praying that whoever hits ahead of me hits only doubles, to minimize the chances that the bases will ever be loaded.

by FredOx on Sep 3, 2008 9:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

That wouldn’t be Garko.

by odradek on Sep 3, 2008 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

To be fair, the Indians had two lefties (Asdrubal and Grady) coming up after Marte. If you’re going to play for one run, then you would pinch run for Shoppach. Expanded rosters, right? But Wedge doesn’t like to be left without his regulars in the lineup.

I’d rather have Choo up in that situation, but Wedge had to know Choo would be facing Logan.

by odradek on Sep 3, 2008 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

This is an interesting and hopeful idea. The Tribe has deduced that Marte is good enough to see more, good enough to go into spring 2009 with, so long as they have a credible option in Carroll.

I hope this isn’t wishful thinking. It seems like they’ve buried Marte in such a purely irrational manner. This would be much more sensible.

I agree entirely with Dellucci, to see if he has anything left. He once was good enough to merit a further look.

by odradek on Sep 2, 2008 10:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I’m not saying the Tribe necessarily has deduced anything about anybody.

I am saying, they continue to evaluate Marte and Carroll — and everyone else — and all of those evaluations enter into their thinking for 2009. Marte would have to have a huge month to lock down a 2009 job, but if he has merely a decent month, having Carroll look good actually helps him stick around.

At this point, I’m not even rooting for him to stick around. If he isn’t the no-questions starter for 2009, he shouldn’t be in this organization anymore.

by Jay on Sep 3, 2008 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

yep

by Gradyforpresident on Sep 3, 2008 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Casey Blake is not a mediocre hitter. He is a good hitter. Better than mediocre by any measure, and surprisingly consistent in his above-mediocre-ness.

by DaytonDogg on Aug 28, 2008 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I question this apotheosis of Casey Blake. He seems to have attained a reputation of being a good player, which he has been every now and then. But he’s closer to Ron Coomer than he is to Scott Rolen. Look at his OPS+:

2003: 93
2004: 122
2005: 99
2006: 114
2007: 101
2008: 114

He is inconsistent, and when he is bad he is not very good. Here’s what Baseball Prospectus has said about him:

2007

Blake blossomed into a big leaguer in 2003 at the advanced age of 29, but the bloom seemed to be off the rose after a 2005 season that was just plain bad. After pushing off speculation that his job was in jeopardy with a torrid start to 2006, hitting .330/.411/.566 through early June, Blake was already cooling when a strained left oblique sent him to the DL for a month. He continued to hit well upon returning in mid-July, but an ankle injury that shelved him for twenty days in August finally derailed his momentum. From his August 25 return until the end of the season, he batted .211/.268/.325 with just 3 home runs in 114 at-bats. For the season, he was a league-average right fielder—not great, not bad, but good enough for the Indians to pick up his $3.75 million extension for 2007. He`ll get plenty of at-bats as a platoon option at both corner outfield positions and as a back-up first baseman.

2006

After five years as a waiver-wire hot potato, Blake had his career year in 2004 at the age 30, while playing a brutal third base. Shifted to right field to make room for Aaron Boone, Blake went back to being a spud. Despite leading the AL in pitches per plate appearance in 2005, Blake`s bat is light for an infield or outfield corner, which are the only spots he`s “capable” of playing (he was second among AL right fielders in errors last year). The Indians inked him to a two-year, $5.4 million deal after his 2004 season, one of Mark Shapiro`s few mistakes.

2005

Blake unexpectedly peaked, exceeding his 90th-percentile PECOTA projection with room to spare. Still, his horror show defense (including 26 errors) created a need for Aaron Boone in the organization’s mind, and so Blake will begin 2005 as a potential right fielder in a crowded outfield. At 31, it’s likely that we’ve just seen the best 600 ABs of Blake’s career, but he should retain enough value to be at least an average contributor. He’s a lock to outperform the .245/.338/.395 Cleveland got out of right field in ’04, should he fend off challenges from everyone this side of Rocky Colavito.

by odradek on Sep 1, 2008 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Don’t see how your evidence supports your disagreement with the fact that Blake is and has been a very good and consistent hitter.

With the bat:
2003- just worse than league average in his first full season as a ML player
2004- Damn good
2005- League average
2006- Pretty damn good
2007- League average
2008- Pretty damn good.

All the BPro clips say is that he is a crappy fielder (which is true at third, not in right) and I don’t think anyone will argue that—- I’m only talking about him being a GOOD hitter. It also says that they were surprised when he had a good year and not surprised when he was league average.

By the way. Ron Coomer had 1 season with a OPS+ over 100 and his career OPS+ was 87. Blake is finishing up his 4th such season, including each of the last 3. His career OPS+ is 105. Rolen’s so I guess Blake is right in between. Something like Melvin Mora without the really high 2-year peak.

by DaytonDogg on Sep 2, 2008 12:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Okay, Melvin Mora without the really good years.

Blake was good in 2004 (career year), 2006 and this year. He wasn’t good in 2003, 2005 and 2007. I tend to recall his being terrible at the plate. Perhaps this is because I am a pessimist.

I said Blake was closer to Coomer than he is Rolen. I exaggerated: Coomer had a career OPS+ of 87, Blake of 106 and Rolen 124.

by odradek on Sep 2, 2008 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I recognize this is mostly a stupid exercise on my part. But I was trying to come to some sort of understanding as to what compels Wedge to treat Marte the way he has. At first I thought it was simply a preference for a grizzled vet like Casey. That, in some way, made sense. You want to make a point, you want to win games. These are sensible motives for playing Blake. But, with Casey gone, I wondered whether there was some sort of transference to Carroll, because he’s been getting some at bats that I thought should have, in a rational world, gone to Marte. Hence, if Blake didn’t exist Wedge would have to invent him. And, on the other side of the coin, if Marte didn’t exist, would Wedge have to invent a new bete noir?

If Wedge “forgets” he’s evaluating, I think his psychology has something to do with it.

by odradek on Aug 27, 2008 3:45 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Wedge dislikes Marte because he always beats him in pinochle after thepost game spread is eaten.

by talonk on Aug 27, 2008 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think placing Carroll at 3b (utility guy on a 3rd place team) over Marte reflect’s the FO’s decision on Marte. I would guess it’s a done-deal.

by joeee on Aug 27, 2008 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

At first I thought it was simply a preference for a grizzled vet like Casey.

That, and I also thought it could be due to his past pattern. Except for ’06, Blake started each year slowly and heated up in May/June or so. (if I remember correctly)

But yeah, now I wonder why Carroll is playing 3B more often. Don’t get me wrong, I like Carroll. But we need to see Marte more. If it was between Carroll and Barfield at 2B, I’d have no problem playing Carroll. Barfield sucks. But with Droobs and Marte healthy, I think Carroll should be the backup.

I think that for a utility player, Carroll’s OBP is very good (.355). Sure he has little power, but he’s a utility player. He’s above average at working the count and avoiding outs (OBP is the most valuable half of OPS, right?), so he has a bit of offensive value. Maybe Wedge overvalues OBP and overlooks OPS, which could be part of the reason he keeps starting Carroll.

Sorry for rambling. Just my 2 cents. :)

by Matt Y. on Aug 27, 2008 11:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I just checked-Carroll’s OPS is higher than Ryan Garko’s. Garko should be ashamed of himself.

by Matt Y. on Aug 27, 2008 11:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Garko has mastered the pop-up at the major league level. His skill set is almost complete.

by Brick. on Aug 28, 2008 9:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Too many of his popups lack altitude. He needs to play in a domed stadium so he can have a target that would allow him to work on this problem.

by peter m on Aug 28, 2008 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

He’s the GREEK GOD OF POP-UPS!

by emd2k3 on Sep 2, 2008 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

you do realize that since the CC trade (the unofficial giving up of the season) this is who has played 3B for us:
Marte – 37 games started
Blake- 4 games started
Carroll- 5 games started
Gonzalez- 1 game started.

Since Blake was traded, Marte has got 6 off days. For comparison, Garko has had 4 and Peralta has had 3. Its not like Carroll is playing 3rd every day. I just don’t get where you are coming from.

by DaytonDogg on Aug 28, 2008 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

You’re right, although they have pinch hit for him on occasion, too, which makes it seem like they’re not exactly confident in him (and I guess why should they be?).

by peter m on Aug 28, 2008 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

of course they are pinch hitting for him. They are still trying to win games and when your worst hitter is up at the end of the game that you are down or tied, it makes sense to pinch hit someone that you may think is more likely to succeed.

by DaytonDogg on Aug 28, 2008 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I suppose, but they did lit Dellucci hit against a lefty the other night. Nothing’s worse than that. Not that I’m disagreeing with you really.

by peter m on Aug 28, 2008 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The Dellucci situation, as I remember, the Indians were up by quite a few runs. It would have been uncool to pinch hit with that sort of lead. Just like it would be uncool to bunt or steal bases.

by odradek on Aug 28, 2008 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

True. Dellucci’s impressive performance in that at bat led me to forget the situation.

But, one could also argue that it was a good occasion to “rest” a veteran guy (exhausted from DH’ing and going 1 for 4) and give a younger, right-handed guy (say … Andy Marte? … a chance to hit against a lefty).

It’s not really important. It was an ugly at bat, though.

by peter m on Aug 28, 2008 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Why would you suppose Marte is our worst hitter?

by emd2k3 on Sep 2, 2008 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

not sure to whom you’re replying, but, if it’s me, I was only saying that DaytonDogg is probably describing accurately what Wedge is thinking. Doesn’t mean I think that’s what we should be doing.

Marte probably HAS been our worst hitter, but that doesn’t mean he can’t get better.

by peter m on Sep 2, 2008 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I was looking for the reasoning behind why Marte has been our worst offensive player this season.

I agree in the simple fact that he has been our worst hitter … those numbers don’t lie. I just don’t get the rationale behind his limited playing time given the team’s present record and situation.

by emd2k3 on Sep 2, 2008 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Until proven otherwise, Marte appears to be our worst hitter.

by Jay on Sep 2, 2008 6:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Carroll has played second as well. Weren’t three of Garko’s holidays after he didn’t run out the grounder?

Carroll has enjoyed a favored status, I think, even if he’s not starting. The nine games Blake and Carroll started at third represent 20 percent of the games since surrender. Maybe Blake was necessary to showcase him for the Dodgers, and maybe Marte had to sit a few times to teach him some sort of lesson, but why restrict Marte’s trial?

by odradek on Aug 28, 2008 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Carroll has NOT enjoyed faovred status. He has started a handful of games at 2nd since Cabrera has been up, but at least three of those (I think it was 5, I don’t have the list up anymore) games was to give Cabrera a chance to play SS.

Carroll is a utility backup infielder and he is being used as such.

by DaytonDogg on Aug 28, 2008 8:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Marte has gotten about 75% of the playing time, all things considered, and it should have been 95%.

There simply has been no reason not to start him every day, and no reason ever to pinch-hit another righty hitter for him in any situation — considering who our other righty hitters on the bench are at any given moment. The club’s long-term interests continue to be the victim of Wedge’s bizarre biases when it comes to Marte, among others.

by Jay on Aug 30, 2008 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Out of curiosity, what do you consider the others?

by cheech99 on Sep 1, 2008 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Shoppach, Garko, Marte, Blake, Carroll, Peralta, Aubrey … his reasoning can be a little hard to figure on playing time.

by Jay on Sep 2, 2008 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I looked at the Royals roster because I knew Grudzielanek has been out, similar to Asdrubal. In fact, Cabrera has played in 87 games, and Grudzielanek in 86. So in both cases, a regular has been out about the same number of games. Jamey Carroll has 269 at bats in 89 games (I know I should use plate appearances, but this makes my point, I hope), while Alberto Callaspo has 116 at bats in 47 games, Esteban German has 171 at bats in 75 games. Tony Pena Jr. has 201 at bats in 80 games. Does this indicate Carroll is being used as a backup utility infielder?

by odradek on Aug 28, 2008 10:34 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs