Game Thread: August 6, 2008
by Ryan on Aug 6, 2008 11:47 AM EDT
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PrintCleveland Indians at Tampa Bay Rays, Aug 6, 2008 12:40 PM EDT
Cleveland at Tampa Bay, 12:40 PM (STO)
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Gutierrez cf
Carroll 3b
Francisco LF
Peralta SS
Choo RF
Garko DH
Gonzalez 1b
Fasano C
Asdrubal 2B
There is no God.
Sure there is. But he is a spiteful God.
Burn on, big river, burn on...
by Turkmenbashi on Aug 6, 2008 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions
yuk. I hate when Grady doesn’t play. Not even as DH??
With Shoppach out too, you could argue our 2 best hitters are on the bench. Peralta would be the only one with an argument.
Yeah without Lee pitching and Sizemore out (and none of the “new” guys called up yet), it’s hard to find a compelling reason to watch these games.
Burn on, big river, burn on...
by Turkmenbashi on Aug 6, 2008 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Castrovince sez
Wedge wanted to get Grady Sizemore, who is 2-for-17 on this road trip, two consecutive days off (with Thursday’s off day). “He’s had a lot to handle this year, mentally,” Wedge said. “It’s important to give him a mental break, as much as anything. But believe me, he doesn’t want an off day.”
Cliff Lee is doing the “wiffle ball game in your backyard” promotion this year. I wonder if he will give a kid a death stare if he goes yard on Cliff.
I’m home for lunch, waiting for the game to start and I flip on Comedy Central where there is a Steven Wright special on. Can I just mention how, in watching this, I really now want Steven Wright (the SP) to succeed. It could make game threads even better.
Man. Usually love me some day games, but this lineup is definitely a bit of a downer.
Despite all of my best intentions, I have not, in fact, grown up to be a debaser.
Question: Why does Wedge have framed photos of different managers hung on the wall in his office? I saw one of Ozzie Guillen and another with the Royals guy, but there were at least, like, 10 in there. WTF is that about?
I could eat a peach for hours.
You have no idea the physical toll that three vasectomies have on a person
by jakesinger777 on Aug 6, 2008 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions
at least we got it out of the way early.
Travis Hafner is overrated. Clarity is underrated. David Dellucci is David Dellucci.
For those of you keeping score at home, 3 runs is more than enough for Kazmir.
Travis Hafner is overrated. Clarity is underrated. David Dellucci is David Dellucci.
Kazmir has given up 3 runs or more in 6 of his 17 starts, and probably would have made it 7 last time out but he was pulled in the 5th. The bigger problem is that I’m amazed this lineup even scored one.
Jhonny is good, though. So…that’s good.
Seriously though, .923 OPS in July, not bad, right?
You have no idea the physical toll that three vasectomies have on a person
actually, it ight take him 6.2, but whatever.
Travis Hafner is overrated. Clarity is underrated. David Dellucci is David Dellucci.
Quick, name your favorite backup dinosaur:
FASANOSAUROS!
You know Selig? Ombudsman.
by rolub on Aug 6, 2008 1:15 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Zobrist played that like it was his first-ever start in CF and third MLB inning out there. Which it is.
At least Homer Bailey blows azzdribbles. 3-1 Brewers.
Travis Hafner is overrated. Clarity is underrated. David Dellucci is David Dellucci.
he was on that Arizona ws team, right? Yea i don’t like him either.
Travis Hafner is overrated. Clarity is underrated. David Dellucci is David Dellucci.
by westbrook on Aug 6, 2008 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Its 5.20am, just seen the line up, stay watching or get some extra sleep?
One day I'll get over to watch the Tribe play
by new zealand tribe fan on Aug 6, 2008 1:22 PM EDT reply actions
Well, you got some big-picture watching with the outfield and AbaCab. Peralta is watchable.
I’d get another hour of sleep and then watch.
by Jay on Aug 6, 2008 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t see why. Jhonny is a guy you can build around.
You have no idea the physical toll that three vasectomies have on a person
by jakesinger777 on Aug 6, 2008 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t see us getting fair value for him. .270 with .800 OPS at SS is just not easily replaceable. I think his defensive struggles are overstated. At some point 3B may be more appropriate, but I think that’s a couple seasons away, plus its not like we have a dozen middle IFers knocking down the door in the system. He is barely blocking Cabrera, who can’t hit and is still contributing by playing 2B.
That is a pretty good assessment.
We probably won’t get offered a truckload for him, and he’s worth a truckload, and we deny ourselves his services unless we’re getting a truckload back.
If there was a team that was a really good fit — that really didn’t have a decent shortstop and really needed power from teh right side — then it could happen, but it probably won’t.
by Jay on Aug 6, 2008 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Jhonny
One day I'll get over to watch the Tribe play
by new zealand tribe fan on Aug 6, 2008 1:36 PM EDT reply actions
the tease continues.
Travis Hafner is overrated. Clarity is underrated. David Dellucci is David Dellucci.
No tease here..this boy is good.
You have no idea the physical toll that three vasectomies have on a person
by jakesinger777 on Aug 6, 2008 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Wow, you know your sunk when you;re getting pulled fro Marte.
by PatBordersHelmet on Aug 6, 2008 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions
If you quote Neyer maybe, but if you’re just running the conversation between Manning and Underwood, then I don’t see any problem as ESPN has no rights on it.
by PatBordersHelmet on Aug 6, 2008 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions
In his Wednesday column, Rob Neyer reproduces the Underwood/Manning broadcast transcript from the Betancourt/Longoria at-bat last night.
Needless to say, he was amused by Manning’s insight and the whole exchange in general.
What was the jist of Manning’s insight?
by PatBordersHelmet on Aug 6, 2008 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions
If you quote Neyer maybe, but if you’re just running the conversation between Manning and Underwood, then I don’t see any problem as ESPN has no rights on it.
by PatBordersHelmet on Aug 6, 2008 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Well then, you get a free pass. Quote away, as an eye-for-an-eye solves every conflict, right?
by PatBordersHelmet on Aug 6, 2008 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Rick Manning: No, no, no. He’s that quick, Matt. I’m telling you, the guy loves a fastball. They’ve been gettin’ him out with offspeed pitches: changeups, sliders. Don’t throw him a fastball, especially there. But that was up and away, and he yanked it foul. He’s got a quick bat. And if you throw it inside, it’s going to go farther.And
Manning: Holy smokes. This kid. They have done a terrific job this year with this guy at the plate, the Indians’ staff. He is a dead red hitter. He matches up good with Betancourt because he’s got a straight fastball. You gotta really throw that fastball down and away and off the plate, and attack him with breaking balls and offspeed pitches.Underwood: Here comes the heater away.
Manning: It better be away.
If you quote Neyer maybe, but if you’re just running the conversation between Manning and Underwood, then I don’t see any problem as ESPN has no rights on it.
by PatBordersHelmet on Aug 6, 2008 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions
I hated the day ESPN started making people pay to read Neyer.
"Lotta heart in Cleveland." - Ian Hunter
by Denver Tribe Fan on Aug 6, 2008 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Pretty much the only reason I signed up for “Insider.” Although I do like reading their scouting reports for football games, and all the draft stuff they have.
The Shin-Soo Choo of LGT.
Neyer alone is probably worth it, but I’d rather buy his books so ESPN doesn’t get the money.
"Lotta heart in Cleveland." - Ian Hunter
by Denver Tribe Fan on Aug 6, 2008 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions
i signed up for Insider for their bluebook info on the NCAA tournament 3 years ago.
i’m lazy and have had it on monthly auto-renew ever since. for the past 14 months, i’ve been telling myself i need to call and cancel.
You know Selig? Ombudsman.
I’m going to end up in the same boat. I signed up for the “free trial” to see my thing on there and haven’t cancelled since.
Burn on, big river, burn on...
Considering it’s about the only thing that I pay for on the internet, I don’t mind. And it’s not too expensive…I think about $45 a year. You also get a subscription to their magazine (which I don’t read). I called them and asked if I they would lower my rate without the magazine but they wouldn’t do that. So I had it sent to my younger brother….he’ll probably like that.
The Shin-Soo Choo of LGT.
When I signed up for a ESPN.com username, I put my name down as The King. It was during my MYOB, log in via bugmenot.com phase. Then I paid for Insider, so now every month I get a magazine addressed to The King.
How could you tell the difference between that and Garko running all out?
"Lotta heart in Cleveland." - Ian Hunter
by Denver Tribe Fan on Aug 6, 2008 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Was Garko Lolligaging? I missed it.
If you need me, I'll be senselessly rooting for Sizemore 40/40 for the remainder of 2008.
Me too. Master of the solo HR.
"Lotta heart in Cleveland." - Ian Hunter
by Denver Tribe Fan on Aug 6, 2008 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Damn. It’s not the same thing, but how about Grady laying back on the ball in the OF yesterday and letting Pena take the extra bag?
Boys are getting complacent.
Ryan, if you’re surfing back in the clubhouse, you might want to take a look here
Free at last! Free at last! Andy Marte is free at last!
Let it be known that on this date and time, in the midst of a full season of play, the Indians’ shortstop has a slugging percentage over .500
I’m telling you, stud.
You have no idea the physical toll that three vasectomies have on a person
by jakesinger777 on Aug 6, 2008 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Also! Entering today’s game, highest OPS in the AL for a SS by over 50 points, and third overall, behind Hanley Ramirez and Jose Reyes.
Manage to injure his leg without stepping out of the batter’s box?
You have no idea the physical toll that three vasectomies have on a person
by jakesinger777 on Aug 6, 2008 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Rotoworld is reporting an apparent leg injury to Garko. I didn’t see the AB, so I don’t know. Chances are, they didn’t see it either.
...or at least that was Garko’s excuse when he got back to the dugout.
Wedge: “Why didn’t you run out that grounder, Ryan?”
Garko: “Run out the..uh…OW my leg!!!”
You have no idea the physical toll that three vasectomies have on a person
by jakesinger777 on Aug 6, 2008 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions
A DL “break” and then a “rehab” assignment might be a nice way for Gark to walk away from the game for a bit and then get some AAA ABs without ruining the option.
I forgot the most important part:
.....
Wedge: “Someone call Rotoworld!”
You have no idea the physical toll that three vasectomies have on a person
by jakesinger777 on Aug 6, 2008 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions
When he went back to the dugout after the AB he wasn’t limping or anything and didn’t call the trainers over, so I’m doubting it.
Oh wait…. yeah… a leg injury… Calling Michael Aubrey.
Probability that Garko is on the 25-man at the start of the 2009 season? That he’s in the organization at all?
He’ll be in the organization, and he may have to compete for the 1B job in the spring.
by Jay on Aug 6, 2008 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m glad Jhonny is hitting fr power again, but I hope this isn’t his transition into an all-or-nothing Khalil Greene-esque philosophy.
Offensively, they are not alike?
Moderate overall power, but above average power for the middle infield. Spike in power accompanied by a drastic decrease in the walk rate. What’s not similar?
Perhaps I was too harsh. I admit they both have an H in their name where it is not necessary. Jhonny’s career on base percentage is 30 points better than Greene’s. It’s just same old doom and gloom – I suppose we should root for him to walk instead of hit for power.
You’re missing the point. Let’s talk about, generally, the known pattern of offensive maturation.
Batter learns strike zone. Batter doesn’t swing at balls. Batter only swings at strikes. Swinging at strikes enables batter to hit better. Batter matures into better hitter.
PS: When batter doesn’t swing at balls, and four of such balls are viewed in one plate appearance, batter awarded free base.
Really? When was this rule put into place? Tell me more? You’ve really my level of awareness about the game in general, and Jhonny in particular.
You seem offended, as if you already knew drawing walks was a desired skill, and, on that some token, that a decline in that skill is somewhat alarming.
Which is exactly, for the third time, my original point.
I still don’t get it. You’re just so smart. Except your point was that because Jhonny is now hitting a monster OPS the last month+, he will turn into Khalil Greene, which is nonsense.
And I didn’t say he’ll turn into Khalil Greene. That’s you being dense and reading what you want to read. I said that he’ll succumb to a similar TREND as Khalil Greene.
I still don’t even really see that trend for Greene. Greene hasn’t had a good walk rate since his rookie season, and he was never as good of a contact hitter or power hitter as Jhonny.
More than 90% of hitters need to maintain a certain level of selectivity in order to be effective at the plate. Khalil is not a particularly good example of one, he’s a mundane example of a mediocre hitter with a mediocre walk rate.
If you want to draw a comparison, I’d try to find a good hitter who had trouble staying good. Like Ryan Garko.
by Jay on Aug 6, 2008 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Actually, you said all or nothing Khalil Greene philosophy. So show me what trend/philophy/ethos that my dense skull cannot comprehend that KG exhibits that should be so worrysome vis a vis our shortstop who needs to stop hitting pitches down the middle for power.
And oh…it’s not the be-all, end-all, but take a look at the list of comparable batters for Jhonny Peralta.
That’s a crap tool for this argument. Bill James similarity scores are for comparing the entire career accomplishments of different players, not for distinguishing types of players.
by Jay on Aug 6, 2008 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Khalil Greene = sucky shortstop.
We hope that Jhonny does not = sucky shortstop.
Does that work?
You have no idea the physical toll that three vasectomies have on a person
by jakesinger777 on Aug 6, 2008 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions
My point is that Peralta is on pace to draw 20 less walks this year. If you’re Adam Dunn, alternating between 120 and 100 walks, it’s one thing.
When you’re Jhonny Peralta, going from 60 to 40 walks is losing 33% of your free passes. That’s a change in hitting philosophy, unless pitchers just really focused extra special -and achieved the goal-to not to walk you for the entire year.
I don’t know if I agree with your premise. Yes, 20 fewer walks is a 33% decrease, but in a 600 AB season, it’s just a 3.3% change in his walk rate. I don’t think I’d call that a change in one’s hitting philosophy, but that could just be me, especially when his overall hitting ability is up (could be at-bats where, in the past, he’d swing and miss at strike 1 and end up walking, whereas this year he’s hitting strike 1..when we’re only talking 20 ABs, little things like this add up and become significant).
You have no idea the physical toll that three vasectomies have on a person
by jakesinger777 on Aug 6, 2008 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions
He’s also on pace to have more hits, more 2B, more 3B, more HR and fewer SO. His OBP will be down, but his SLG up so he’ll have the 2nd highest OPS of his career. Sure, I’d rather have all that plus walks, but perhaps you can’t have everything. I’d also like to trade Garko for Pujols straight up. Plus a pony.
Who gets the pony?
"Lotta heart in Cleveland." - Ian Hunter
by Denver Tribe Fan on Aug 6, 2008 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions
except players with power and low BB rate do exist. Soriano, Tejada, Phillips are a few off the top of my head.
Tejada’s a different type of hitter. Phillips is a good comp, actually. But it’s hard to be productive when you sport an OBP below .320
OBP is undervalued in this whole OBP/SLG equation. The Indians and Jhonny would be better off with him producing .400/.400 lines than a .300/.500 line.
Those are the choices?
Jhonny isn’t going to have a .400 OBP. The tenth-best OBP in the whole league is .384.
He’s going to draw walks, but he’s not going to lead the league, and he’s going to hit well, but not .300.
The target should be more like .350/.480.
by Jay on Aug 6, 2008 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions
But Jhonny isn’t a .400/.400 guy. He never will be. .400/.400 MIGHT be better than .300/.500, but that doesn’t make the latter bad. Peralta is a .330/.470 guy, and that is pretty damn good.
I was just stressing the fact that 100 points of OBP is worth more than 100 points of SLG. I don’t think Peralta will ever have a .400 OBP. But I think him fully capable of being in the .340 to .360 range.
Again, the point you’re making doesn’t really have anything to do with Peralta in particular, so it’s confusing why you’re making it.
Peralta’s walk rate needs to recover in order for him to continue being a good hitter anyway, but I don’t think he’s a guy that you ask to be more selective so that his OBP will go up. He needs to be selective so he can slug .500, and whatever OBP comes with that, comes with that.
Let’s not forget, swings in slugging are much more severe than swings in OBP. 100 points of OBP is much more valuable than 100 points of slugging, but 50 points of OBP is not as valuable as 100 points of slugging.
by Jay on Aug 6, 2008 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Gasp…..the big picture point, going all the way back to Peralta: is there a cost to this rediscovered power?
I like the increased power. But I’m not sure if the power is the result of Jhonny’s maturation as a hitter or Jhonny making other sacrifices in his game. And if so, it will be interesting to see what type of hitter he becomes if this is a shift in his offensive game. We’ve seen a pretty complete offensive game in 2005, and I hope that’s what he’s trending toward.
As confusing a hitter as Peralta has been so far, I’m even more confused by his year this year.
While it could be a fluke, that actually is a pretty big drop in the rate.
Interesting thing is that Peralta’s walk rate was more along career norms for April-May, 16 BB in 199 PA — .233/.294/.461.
Since then, it’s only 10 BB in 244 PA — .302/.332/.517.
I do think that he won’t succeed long term if the walk rate doesn’t come back — it sure seems to have doomed Garko — but I also think that it’s going to come back. I hate to oversimplify things, but I think Jhonny has simply seen more balls that he wants to swing over the last couple of months.
by Jay on Aug 6, 2008 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions
I think that’s it. For example, he’s already put more 2-1 counts in play than he did all of last year, and he has a 1.478 OPS with a 2-1 count.
Which suggests that pitchers are giving in to him on that count — basically, not nibbling as much as they should — and when Jhonny is seeing the ball well, he’ll make him pay for that.
Anyway, what you’re implying (intentionally or not) is that Peralta may be just as selective pitch-by-pitch as he was last season, he’s just capitalizing by hitting in hitter’s counts rather than actually drawing the walk. If that is the case, then pitchers eventually will adjust and the walks will come back, even if Jhonny’s approach stays the same.
by Jay on Aug 6, 2008 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions
you mean, rhuns?
You have no idea the physical toll that three vasectomies have on a person
by jakesinger777 on Aug 6, 2008 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions
MARTE PARTY!!
If you need me, I'll be senselessly rooting for Sizemore 40/40 for the remainder of 2008.
MARTE
One day I'll get over to watch the Tribe play
by new zealand tribe fan on Aug 6, 2008 2:17 PM EDT reply actions
Wait for it..
You have no idea the physical toll that three vasectomies have on a person
by jakesinger777 on Aug 6, 2008 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Why is Marte not at 3B?
If you need me, I'll be senselessly rooting for Sizemore 40/40 for the remainder of 2008.
Nothing beats an afternoon of bad baseball!
by PatBordersHelmet on Aug 6, 2008 2:38 PM EDT reply actions
Mujica just fell down in the bullpen? Great.
by PatBordersHelmet on Aug 6, 2008 2:39 PM EDT reply actions
If the Rays give anything to Peralta that he can hit with a base open, then they are being particularly stupid.
Free at last! Free at last! Andy Marte is free at last!
Wow Jhonny
One day I'll get over to watch the Tribe play
by new zealand tribe fan on Aug 6, 2008 2:50 PM EDT reply actions
Can Casey play 2b??
If you need me, I'll be senselessly rooting for Sizemore 40/40 for the remainder of 2008.
by gte619n on Aug 6, 2008 2:55 PM EDT reply actions 4 recs
Cripes! Just as he was beginning to hit.
"Lotta heart in Cleveland." - Ian Hunter
by Denver Tribe Fan on Aug 6, 2008 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions
I would give nothing for that.
What I would give never have to ponder the possibility again.
by Jay on Aug 6, 2008 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Let’s hear it for balls hit to the outfield.
Free at last! Free at last! Andy Marte is free at last!
LF-Ben Fran
CF- Gutz
RF- Choo
1b- Fasano
2b- Carroll
SS- Peralta
3b- Some guy name Gonzalez
C- Shoppach
P- Sowers
The 2008 Indians or Bad News Bears 4?
And yet, with this lineup, we are currently beating the team that is tied with the Cubs for the best record in baseball/
Free at last! Free at last! Andy Marte is free at last!
I just checked BBref and Fasano played 1 game at 1B in 2005 and 5 games in 1998. His fielding percentage is 1.000—so he’s pretty much a gold glover.
The Shin-Soo Choo of LGT.
We don’t play that here. Angie will post photos of shirtless guys.
by Jay on Aug 6, 2008 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Every other day is too often, I agree. On the bright side, Perez
1) used to be a starter so he can log some innings (though I don’t condone high frequency as much as I do multiple innings) and
2) has been quite economical in his recent outings.
He looks good, but I worry. I understand there is little else to rely on in the bullpen, but at some point he’s gonna tire out.
by PatBordersHelmet on Aug 6, 2008 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, I can schedule posts to appear if I know I won’t be around to create the thread closer to the game’s start.
He also has a macro to answer that question automatically.
by Jay on Aug 6, 2008 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Droobs has a strained left ankle, fantastic.
by PatBordersHelmet on Aug 6, 2008 3:15 PM EDT reply actions
You mean, Coco Crisp is Ron Harper and Marte will become the GM in 20 years after a productive, yet underwhelming career?
Love the Coco as Ron Harper motif. I hadn’t thought of that, but it’s pretty spot on, except Harper’s pre-injury star was rising in a way that no one ever would have dreamed of for Crisp. In the case of Ferry it was the frustration of knowing that he would never live up to expectations, yet would remain serviceable enough (not to mention the contract) to stick around and remind us daily of his mediocrity. Then he went to another team where he was accepted by both the team and himself as a role player and won a ring.
I see the similarities, but baseball is just different, maybe just because the roster is bigger. If Marte has a nice season, people won’t really remember the expectations. The mainstream fan always assumed he was a worthless prospect anyway — he wasn’t even a .300 hitter in the minors, you know.
by Jay on Aug 6, 2008 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, the contract difference and baseball’s “control” structure make the situations drastically different. The similarity is more from the fans perspective than from reality. I think the fans will always think Crisp was better than he was, and they would never appreciate it if Marte becomes “only” a decent player or utility type guy.
Sort of like they will never understand that having a prospect from the Casey Blake trade pan out better than Marte would not be an abberation.
Not an aberration, but not expected, either.
i don’t know how Marte will pan out, so it’s hard to characterize the comparison.
by Jay on Aug 6, 2008 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t know about that. I think if he puts together a Blakelike career, people will look back and say, yeah, that trade was a long time ago and he’s still here, so I can kind of see how that makes sense. I think the typical fan has contextualized the Colon deal by this point.
I do agree that the main problem is that Crisp was seen as one of our best players, rather than for what he really was, a role player who had overachieved for a year or so.
by Jay on Aug 6, 2008 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions
And I think Blake sort of had the benefit of more minor league seasoning/no expectations. If Marte had options he would probably have a better chance of sticking around long enough to become a decent player—the type that would inevitably be appreciated more by another team’s fans than ours.
Not comparing the expectations of Blake to Marte — Blake had none, and was arguably less impressive than Francisco as a prospect. I was just saying if Marte ends up with a similar career as an Indian … seven or eight years later, nobody remembers the expectations. By 2005, people expected Blake to be a decent hitter, and they booed quite a bit when he wasn’t. A year earlier, they were happy to just to know who their starting 3B was.
by Jay on Aug 6, 2008 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Curious to hear your opinion on this – is ERA a valid metric for even beginning to think of a reliever’s value? Besides the other reasons ERA isn’t a perfect metric, relievers can give up inherited runners that he isn’t discredited for, while starters cannot. At the same time, inherited runners that score should not be totally counted against the reliever (just partially).
Is there a metric right now that captures this in any sort of logical way (like maybe count his earned runs+half his inherited runners average)?
You have no idea the physical toll that three vasectomies have on a person
by jakesinger777 on Aug 6, 2008 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions
WPA is my favorite.
If you need me, I'll be senselessly rooting for Sizemore 40/40 for the remainder of 2008.
Yeah, but the problem there is if he pitches in a blowout, no matter how good or bad he is, it doesn’t work either for or against him. I know there is a tendency to think that part of that is built in to a pitcher’s quality (because if he is a great reliever then he won’t pitch in blowouts), but I too much of that is up to the subjectivity of the manager (plus, you’ll have no way to value your worst reliever who only pitches in blowouts).
You have no idea the physical toll that three vasectomies have on a person
by jakesinger777 on Aug 6, 2008 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions
I have this stat I keep meaning to make up called the Quality Relief Appearance, QRA, similar to Quality Start. But I have a lot of stats I never get around to making up.
by Jay on Aug 6, 2008 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions
I’ve tried to work with Fractional ERA … (i.e. the reliever and starter share earned runs if an inherited runner scores, depending where the runner starts when the reliever comes into the game … RP is charged 0.25 runs for a runner scoring from third, 0.5 from second, and 0.75 if scoring from first.) This would lower most starter’s ERAs overall and raise relief ERAs, but at least it would distribute earned runs more equally between performances. Or maybe not.
That would be a start, but ideally you’d consider the number of outs as well — or perhaps instead. When a reliever comes in with two outs and a man on first, he ought to be solely responsible for the runner. The expectation on the reliever should be great than on the relieved.
Based on the current way of thinking — the pitcher who allows the baserunner is primarily responsible — this would be a logical way to do it.
New reliever is responsible for runners inherited:
• on 1B, if there were two outs or one out.
• on 2B, if there were two outs.
• on 3B, never.Exiting pitcher is responsible for runners bequeathed:
• on 3B, in all situations.
• on 2B, if there were no outs or one out.
• on 1B, if there were no outs.
So you could say, the new reliever gets to allow all runners to advance one base per out with no penalty. I think this is way too easy on the reliever, whose job is simply to get outs NOW, not just rather often over a stretch of the next 30 batters. So I would shift the burden up one base (or one out) toward the new reliever:
New reliever is responsible for runners inherited:
• on 1B, in all situations.
• on 2B, if there were two outs or one out.
• on 3B, if there were two outs.Exiting pitcher is responsible for runners bequeathed:
• on 3B, if there were no outs or one out (i.e., sac fly situation)
• on 2B, if there were no outs.
• on 1B, never.
Under either construction, with runners on 2B and 3B and two outs, in the case of a two-run single, the reliever and existing pitcher each are responsible for one run. I would also say that the reliever is never charged with runs that score on an error, but is charged with any runs that score after that play.
This seems more complicated at first, but it’s actually less messy and more equitable than fractionalizing runners with no outs-situation context.
by Jay on Aug 6, 2008 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions
ERA is not a valid metric for relief, but I wouldn’t have posted it if it were misleading in this particular instance.
FWIW, over that span, Perez has had 22 inherited runners, stranding 15 and allowing 7 to score. I don’t know what bases they were on or how many outs there were, though.
by Jay on Aug 6, 2008 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, and I think that if a reliever has a great ERA over a large number of innings, he is likely a damn good pitcher. But I tried to be clear that I wasn’t posting in criticism of your post, I was merely trying to use your post as a starting point for this conversation.
You have no idea the physical toll that three vasectomies have on a person
by jakesinger777 on Aug 6, 2008 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions
“that sucks. Is Barfield ready?”
bet you never thought you’d say that in aug…
Kevin @ Black Shoe Diaries
I know I’ll never forget it. I had just started a new job in STL, and I was in a corporate apartment in a high rise. When Pujols hit the bomb, I thought the building was going to fall down with all the screaming and carrying on. That’s when I thought “good to be in a baseball town again,” having been in Louisville and DC immediately before that.
12.5 K/9 = Filthy.
Other filthy:
Randy Johnson: 10.7 K/9 in 3973 IP.
Billy Wagner: 11.7 K/9 in 818 IP.
If you need me, I'll be senselessly rooting for Sizemore 40/40 for the remainder of 2008.
That guy could miss bats.
Lefty, too. Devastating.
by Jay on Aug 6, 2008 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Anyone else catch him on the Penn & Teller show on Showtime this month?
by Jay on Aug 6, 2008 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions
I honestly have no idea what you could mean by that.
by Jay on Aug 6, 2008 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions
BUNTS SUCK.
If you need me, I'll be senselessly rooting for Sizemore 40/40 for the remainder of 2008.
Man. A guy goes to the dentist and suddenly Fasano’s at first. It’s bizarro world!
Despite all of my best intentions, I have not, in fact, grown up to be a debaser.
Updating Perez … 41 games since April 25 … 47:12 in 47 IP.
I won’t bother with the ERA, which is totally invalid, but he’s given up 11 runs.
:)
You have no idea the physical toll that three vasectomies have on a person
by jakesinger777 on Aug 6, 2008 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Ahh….reminiscing about the Indians killing Percival back in the day.
I remember when the Indians used to be good.
The Shin-Soo Choo of LGT.
Hello boys … quite the 1B we have, eh?
Travis Hafner is overrated. Clarity is underrated. David Dellucci is David Dellucci.
Just wait until the bottom of the inning. The Indians traded for Johnny Damon and announced immediately that he’s the new closer.
by xrickx on Aug 6, 2008 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Hey take that
One day I'll get over to watch the Tribe play
by new zealand tribe fan on Aug 6, 2008 3:47 PM EDT reply actions
So glad I got up at 5.20am…............
One day I'll get over to watch the Tribe play
by new zealand tribe fan on Aug 6, 2008 3:58 PM EDT reply actions
Hey, man, they’re a first-place team … high times for them. If they had any real fans, I’d be happy for them.
by Jay on Aug 6, 2008 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions
That was a terrible call.
Despite all of my best intentions, I have not, in fact, grown up to be a debaser.
Masa beat him to the bag, but his first foot down may not have quite hit the bag. His second foot down didn’t beat the runner’s first foot.
by Jay on Aug 6, 2008 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions
I think his front foot missed the bag. I think the ump told Wedge that, and that’s why Wedge didn’t get himself thrown out by continuing to yell at him.
What is up with the horror-movie lighting on Masa’s picture?
Oh, that’s right—he pitches in our ‘pen.
I’ve heard Jesus saves. Maybe he can help our bullpen.
Free at last! Free at last! Andy Marte is free at last!
by woodsmeister on Aug 6, 2008 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Zero-thirds is not dividing by zero. Until you divide by zero-thirds, that is.
by Jay on Aug 6, 2008 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions
You know something? I exempt you from drinking in this case.
by Jay on Aug 6, 2008 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions
I would never think that.
Obviously we all have plenty of reason to drink, so how could any of us need one?
by Jay on Aug 6, 2008 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Obviously a very bad time machine
One day I'll get over to watch the Tribe play
by new zealand tribe fan on Aug 6, 2008 4:05 PM EDT reply actions
Hell of a good first eight innings though.
Phenomenal game for Peralta, great game for Gutierrez, very good game for Marte.
Genuinely gritty and solid performance by Sowers, which is great news.
Just about justifies an early morning start when you look at it like that.
One day I'll get over to watch the Tribe play
by new zealand tribe fan on Aug 6, 2008 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions
lead had already been lost by the time I showed up. I came just in time for the final blow.
by APV on Aug 6, 2008 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Tampa Bay won only 66 games last year; do the Indians have the raw material to do in 2009 what the Rays are doing this year?
Free at last! Free at last! Andy Marte is free at last!
by woodsmeister on Aug 6, 2008 4:07 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I blame Garko.
And Society.
I blame Garko and Society.
by Jay on Aug 6, 2008 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree.
All in all, I’d say that I myself turned in a very gritty performance today, and I deserve to be overpaid for it.
by Jay on Aug 6, 2008 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions
I’ll be right here if anybody wants to come by with another swift kick to the balls.
LeCavs!
If you were good enough, maybe we'd name it after you.
I think he gets the call today after the game. I think the clause in his contract is for August 6th or he’s a free agent.
by APV on Aug 6, 2008 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Even Joe Borowski would have had the decency to get 2 outs.
by Toxicadam on Aug 6, 2008 4:16 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
I hope the sound guy in the truck is fast with the bleeps for Eric Wedge’s statements.
Free at last! Free at last! Andy Marte is free at last!
What about “It was a frustrating ballgame to say the least” needs to bleeped?
by JulioBernazard on Aug 6, 2008 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions
He can. But he already had thrown two innings when the game was tight. You would think a 3 run lead is safe.
No, I mean, since he’s our only RP who can get outs, can we try him at CL?
by JulioBernazard on Aug 6, 2008 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions
This comes up in the first line of a Google Image search for Wedge closed door meeting>
by APV on Aug 6, 2008 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions
“you guys gotta grind”; “trust the process”; “fight through”
by JulioBernazard on Aug 6, 2008 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Don’t forget about “respecting the game”.
by Otto on Aug 6, 2008 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Everyone. Today’s loss wasn’t fair to Casey.
by xrickx on Aug 6, 2008 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
and Peralta, for being so inconsiderate to waste his 5-hit performance in a game the bullpen would blow.
You know Selig? Ombudsman.
The umps blew a few calls, including hosing Sowers on a couple key strike-threes.
by Jay on Aug 6, 2008 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions
EPIC FAIL.
If you need me, I'll be senselessly rooting for Sizemore 40/40 for the remainder of 2008.
Just to clarify: I’m not talking like cutting a guy or demoting a guy, I mean hardcore headchopping Apocalypto sacrifice.
by obobcatu on Aug 6, 2008 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Good think the team has tomorrow off to think about this one.
Free at last! Free at last! Andy Marte is free at last!
Freudian slip on your part, or clever pun?
by JulioBernazard on Aug 6, 2008 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions
I wonder what they have planned?
A trip to the Rock Hall, swim in Lake Erie and a nice romantic dinner at Mr. Hero I assume.
Wedge: [letting go of Casey's hand] I'll never let go, Casey. I promise.
by cclemens31 on Aug 6, 2008 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
My advice to you, start drinking heavily.
Baseball fans are junkies, and their heroin is the statistic. - Robert S. Wieder
2008 bullpen = Ring of Fire
"Lotta heart in Cleveland." - Ian Hunter
by Denver Tribe Fan on Aug 6, 2008 6:52 PM EDT reply actions
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