Schilling Takes a Shot at Manny

Normally I'd discount much of what Schilling has to say here, but it looks like Merloni is co-signing for Curt. Manny - what a doofus.

The other interesting thing in here is that Curt says we - that's we the fan I guess - only hear/know about 10-20% of what's actually going on in the club house. Sounds about right.

about 1 year ago mauichuck 31 comments 0 recs |

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Yeah, if this was just Schilling, I’d scoff a little. But from what I understand from people who were pretty close to Lou in his Cleveland days (105 OPS+—just checked), I should believe what he says.

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on Sep 19, 2008 9:45 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I’d take Manny in a heartbeat.

by oxforddave on Sep 19, 2008 11:33 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Really? Cuz if you’ve got an extra $75M laying around for, I duuno – 3 years – he’s yours – kinda. Cuz he’ll only play when he wants to play – and you’ve gotta be really, really nice to him. Otherwise he’ll grab his hamstring and play dead.

Resident LGT beer kinda sewer

by mauichuck on Sep 19, 2008 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

And yet he’ll still put up a 138 OPS+ and play in over 90% of your games

by 7foot3 on Sep 19, 2008 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You really don’t know that.

by Jay on Sep 19, 2008 11:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thats what he did for the Red Sox. Sure he’s likely to decline. But saying “he’ll only play when he wants to play” and “otherwise he’ll grab his hamstring and play dead” is ignoring part of the picture. He still played a lot and produced. It’s not like this guy wasn’t a huge boost to the team on the field.

by 7foot3 on Sep 20, 2008 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The stories coming out of Boston are pretty atrocious, and they weaken your argument quite a bit. Gammons reported that Manny’s teammates felt that he particularly bailed on them by refusing to play on days when they were facing the toughest opposing starters — which devalues his numbers a bit. He’s also getting older.

The biggest problem, though, is that when signing Manny to a new deal, you can’t expect him to play out the last season of it normally — maybe not even the next-to-last season. Yet you’ll be expected to pay best-of-market prices for all three or four years of the deal.

I don’t know how many folks here have ever dealt with a person who has a contract that says he/she will do certain things, and then he/she reneges on that contract for no reason other than just not wanting to do it anymore. I have been in that situation a few times, and trust me, if you’ve been through it even once, you basically swear off ever dealing with that person again.

In any profession, and definitely including major league baseball, there is nothing more sacrosanct than simply honoring your commitments. If someone has a track record of not doing that, it is crazy to consider seriously ever working with that person again.

by Jay on Sep 20, 2008 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs

I really, really wanted to see him as just a funny, quirky guy. The recent stories are just destroying that idea though. I agree, sloughing off your most basic responsibilities is beyond inexcusable.

by fwembt on Sep 20, 2008 7:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

He sat out against Gabbard, Verlander, Bush, Duchscherer, F Hernandez twice, Bailey, Kendrick, and Chamberlain. Sure, he avoided some tough pitchers, but if he was looking to bump his numbers by sitting out specific opposing pitchers, he certainly could have done a better job. Even if you give him an 0/36 for those 9 games, he still has an 850 OPS. And I’d expect the stories out of Boston, and specifically Gammons, to be pretty atrocious; they aren’t known to be the most fair of critics when it comes to situations regarding the Sox. And while Manny certainly didn’t look like he was working too hard at honoring his contract, I’m sure if you asked the Sox before the season they would have considered a 138 OPS+ in 90% of the games honoring his contract on the field they would have said yes.

by 7foot3 on Sep 22, 2008 9:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You must be an NBA fan.

Resident LGT beer kinda sewer

by mauichuck on Sep 22, 2008 11:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Actually, I don’t think they would have, considering his baserunning and defense, not to mention shoving a team employee in his 60’s to the floor and undermining the manager’s credibility with his players.

There is no real question that Manny did not honor his contract. The only question was the practical one, of what their options for recourse were.

There is also no real question that a club will have to pay “full value” for Manny’s potential production, despite the fact that he likely will decide not to give full effort on more than one occasion, possibly for entire months, not to mention the fact that the fruits of his full effort will be in decline.

by Jay on Sep 23, 2008 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I’m not going to defend Manny. But, Curt Schilling is not someone I’d describe as a team guy either.

by peter m on Sep 19, 2008 11:57 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs

Completely agree.

by mjschaefer on Sep 19, 2008 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

OK then, how would you describe Lou Merloni?

Resident LGT beer kinda sewer

by mauichuck on Sep 19, 2008 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

A marginal major leaguer who’s doing talk radio in Boston and does pre- and post-game shows about the Red Sox on NESN. Is Manny a difficult team mate? Obviously. Is Merloni doing talk radio? You bet.

by peter m on Sep 19, 2008 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

So you think he’s going along with Schilling to pump up his ratings? I could see that. But then again why in the name of Bobby Doer would Theo Epstien trade Manny in the middle of a pennant drive? There’s just way too much horse manure here for there not to be a pony.

Resident LGT beer kinda sewer

by mauichuck on Sep 19, 2008 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

No one’s denying that. I said I’m not defending Manny and I said he’s a difficult teammate. I think these guys are piling on (but there’s something real there, obviously). I’ll be people have things to say about Schilling after he’s gone, by the way.

by peter m on Sep 19, 2008 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

that should say I’ll bet people have things to say.

by peter m on Sep 19, 2008 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I wonder why Manny would have such a profound personality shift after he signed with the Bostons?

by odradek on Sep 19, 2008 1:58 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

That’s a pretty good question. But I do believe that he is a different guy than the one that played in Cleveland. We all know that athletes – especially athletes who’ve been good since their early teens – (cough, cough) LeBron – have an inflated sense of entitlement. I believe that Manny’s sense of entitlement rose with the exponential increase in his salary. It’s been on a rocket ride ever since.

Resident LGT beer kinda sewer

by mauichuck on Sep 19, 2008 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

That’s probably right, but I bet Albert Belle kept things under control better. Belle never knocked down a traveling secretary did he?

by odradek on Sep 19, 2008 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think he got older and more insulated, and the longer he’s been a rich, pampered star, the more isolated and dumber he’s gotten. Think about the leaked Lindsay Lohan diary from a year or two back, where she’s yammering on and on about how to solve the world’s problems. Manny is essentially an uneducated moron who’s been treated like a diety his whole adult life.

by Jay on Sep 19, 2008 11:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You know understanding Manny is alot easier now that you’ve brought up Lindsay Lohan. Same person.

by hans on Sep 23, 2008 7:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You know, there was this story a couple years back where Lohan backed out of some indie film she was working on, I think the director was complaining because she’d show up all hungover/still-drugged-up on the set every day. Quitting the film, or getting fired, whichever, she then announced that she would no longer be working on any indie films, she only wanted to work with “important” directors — specifically naming Michael Bay, if memory serves. That was the part that made it memorable.

So, you know, only really big-time stuff like I Know Who Killed Me, no more “little films” working with people like Robert Altman, Meryl Streep, Kevin Kline, Lily Tomlin, Woody Harrelson, Tommy Lee Jones …

Yeah, I think Manny and Lohan actually have a lot in common.

by Jay on Sep 24, 2008 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Now that I think about it, Shea Hillenbrand is another good comp for Lohan. Back in 2003, when the Red Sox more or less dumped him off to Arizona, he made all these ridiculous comments about how much better he feels now that he’s in Arizona, where they really know about hitting, unlike those dumbasses in Boston. Unsurprisingly, his slugging jumped up 39 points, but his OBP dropped 32 points, and his OPS+ dropped from 100 to 94 because Arizona was more batter-friendly than Boston that year.

More to the point, though, Boston scored 961 runs that season — not just the best in baseball and probably one of the ten best-hitting teams of the past 50 years — while Arizona scored 717 — which was 10th out of 16 NL teams and 21st overall, not to mention more than 1.5 runs per game less than Boston.

by Jay on Sep 24, 2008 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs