Game Thread: September 20, 2008
by Ryan on Sep 20, 2008 6:30 PM EDT
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PrintDetroit Tigers at Cleveland Indians, Sep 20, 2008 7:05 PM EDT
Detroit at Cleveland, 7:05 PM (WKYC)
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I just picked up some Hofbrau Oktoberfest. First time trying their Oktoberfest. I have that and some WSM pierogies.
I usually pass through in the summer and do some museum work on the way to field work. This is from Munich earlier this summer.
I’ve only been to Munich and Frankfurt. Munich and the surrounding area are beautiful, but very expensive.
Munich was at the top of my list. We are planning on passing through, arriving in Rome and leaving from London.
I’d have to suggest Berlin too if you can swing it. It is the capital and also absolutely amazing to see the history there including WWII remnants as well as the stark difference between East and West Berlin during the Cold War.
a delicious Hofbrau lunch (note: this photo needs a scale, as that beer is 1 liter and that pretzel is about the size of my chest)
the local good beer selection store stopped carrying augustiner …. so sad for me
by Gradyforpresident on Sep 21, 2008 1:25 AM EDT up reply actions
First time in a while I can watch a TV game in its entirety. I’m excited. Drill Sheffield!
Travis Hafner is overrated. Clarity is underrated. David Dellucci is David Dellucci.
quick poll (1 to 10):
How much confidence do you have in Sowers tonight (10 is a lot)?
I’m only feeling a 4 tonight.
I’ll go way out there on a limb and say his performance will be in between his last start and the one before that. More specifically: he’ll have some trouble in the 1st, probably give up one or two runs, then be pretty dominant for a few innings, start to fall apart in the 6th and be pulled after giving up another run or two.
by Logodaedalus on Sep 20, 2008 7:07 PM EDT up reply actions
he’ll be just under a quality start, so….. roughly a 5 or 5.5
by Logodaedalus on Sep 20, 2008 7:11 PM EDT up reply actions
except for the falling apart in the 6th, which is my favorite part to have been wrong about
by Logodaedalus on Sep 21, 2008 1:56 AM EDT up reply actions
Just switched over from the Brewers. Fielder struck out with the bases loaded, down one run in the top of the ninth to give the win to lowly Cincy.
Stick a fork in ’em.
by PatBordersHelmet on Sep 20, 2008 7:19 PM EDT reply actions
yup, with Philly having fallen behind the Mets again
by Logodaedalus on Sep 20, 2008 7:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Just stopped by to show off my new avatar!
I was at the Buckeyes game today, and – wow – was Pryor impressive. I know he’s just a freshman and has a lot of work to do to improve, and I’m not saying he’s going to lead OSU to a national championship this year, but for a guy that young he seems to really know how to play. Everybody know about his running ability, but his arm is what impressed me today. He can throw the ball very far and quite accurate with just a flick of the wrist. He had 4 TD passes (with only 10 completions). He reminded me of watching young Michael Vick play at Virginia Tech (only Pryor is about 4-5 inches taller). His decision-making ability is much better than what you would expect from a QB playing in his fourth college game. It’s obvious why he was so highly recruited (and thank goodness he didn’t go to Michigan!). I except great things from him during the next 4 (or 3) years.
How many of you watched the OSU game? What were your thoughts?
The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay
True…but he only played a few snaps there, and they mostly asked him to run. The announcers said he missed a couple open recievers but I didn’t see them.
Today, though, he played pretty much the whole game (Boeckman only played 2 snaps). So he was in control the whole time, and he was able to get in a nice rhythm.
The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay
by Buckeye Brad on Sep 20, 2008 7:27 PM EDT up reply actions
I mowed the lawn and thought about baseball.
by PatBordersHelmet on Sep 20, 2008 7:24 PM EDT up reply actions
I have one of those reel mowers — no gas!
by PatBordersHelmet on Sep 20, 2008 7:30 PM EDT up reply actions
The blades essentially act like scissors.
by PatBordersHelmet on Sep 20, 2008 7:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Didn’t see the game, but loved this quote from Pryor:
“My comfort level is about 7 or 8 out of 10 right now,” Pryor said. “You saw some bad balls along with the four touchdowns I threw. I have so much to learn.”
Yeah, that’s what Tressel said he was impressed with — Pryor’s willingness to learn. You know Tressel isn’t going to play a true freshman at QB unless he knows he’s going to play smart.
The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay
by Buckeye Brad on Sep 20, 2008 7:29 PM EDT up reply actions
In order for Sowers to retaliate, he will need:
1. a fastball
2. control
I submit that this task cannot be accomplished.
by Voltaire on Sep 20, 2008 7:25 PM EDT reply actions 4 recs
I’ll say this about Verlander: you have to have pinpoint control to hit Carroll
by Logodaedalus on Sep 20, 2008 7:28 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I think he’s pretty much on Browns duty now. When was the last Indians game he did?
The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay
by Buckeye Brad on Sep 20, 2008 7:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh, I know he does the WKYC games. I meant that since Browns season has started, I think he’s stopped doing Tribe games and concentrates on covering them. He hosts the Browns shows on STO.
The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay
by Buckeye Brad on Sep 20, 2008 7:41 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t watch many Browns games, so I am sure he is quite adept at calling those games, but I don’t think he is suited for baseball.
Agreed. The best part of Browns preseason games is Bernie Kosar. He sounds like he’s drunk when he talks, but he actually provides insightful analysis — unlike most football announcers on TV.
The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay
by Buckeye Brad on Sep 20, 2008 7:48 PM EDT up reply actions
thenbe pretty dominantfull of gritty resolve for a few innings
by Logodaedalus on Sep 20, 2008 7:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Golf was on WKYC? I was watching boxing for too long.
by PatBordersHelmet on Sep 20, 2008 7:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, the Ryder’s Cup was on NBC so they started the Indians game on STO. Then it switched to WKYC when the golf ended.
The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay
by Buckeye Brad on Sep 20, 2008 7:49 PM EDT up reply actions
So the Ty Cobb running for Congress in North Carolina is, as far as I can tell, Ty Cobb III, grandson of that Ty Cobb.
By that Ty Cobb I assume you mean the Depression era insurance magnate
by Logodaedalus on Sep 20, 2008 7:55 PM EDT up reply actions
grandsons of insurance magnates often are
by Logodaedalus on Sep 20, 2008 8:05 PM EDT up reply actions
you know, i looked through his website and i gotta say, it seems pretty mild compared to what the rest of his party is up to.
/end
by Gradyforpresident on Sep 21, 2008 1:33 AM EDT up reply actions
It sucks that Miggy is signed through 2015.
by PatBordersHelmet on Sep 20, 2008 8:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, it is bizarre. The 1980 Indians weren’t that good in scoring runs (8th). I’m looking into his starts.
I could understand it if Dellucci or maybe Carroll were next, but Shoppach? I mean, obviously it worked out in this case, but still
by Logodaedalus on Sep 20, 2008 8:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe his loss of power was a figment of our collective imaginations and he already hit 40 homers and the Indians are actually headed to the post season. You think that’s it?
by PatBordersHelmet on Sep 20, 2008 8:25 PM EDT up reply actions
each inning has been better than the last though…. don’t want to max out too soon — gotta leave room for continued improvement
by Logodaedalus on Sep 20, 2008 8:26 PM EDT up reply actions
even across state lines? I bet it varies by receiving state
by Logodaedalus on Sep 20, 2008 8:30 PM EDT up reply actions
That only applies is you’re selling the beer. Gifting is OK.
by PatBordersHelmet on Sep 20, 2008 8:31 PM EDT up reply actions
is should be if (I am drinking beer.)
by PatBordersHelmet on Sep 20, 2008 8:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Thanks. Trying to figure out how I am going to ship out Christmas Ale to some far-flung friends when it comes out.
I mailed a bunch of 1 liter bottles of beer I brewed at The Brew Kettle a couple years back (NY, FL, AZ and NC) as Xmas gifts. I told the postal clerk what the were and she just made a joke that they may arrive empty.
by PatBordersHelmet on Sep 20, 2008 8:36 PM EDT up reply actions
They all arrived intact and unopened.
by PatBordersHelmet on Sep 20, 2008 8:41 PM EDT up reply actions
I worked a summer on the delivery truck line at UPS. and rarely use their services for anything breakable knowing what I know. “FRAGILE” means very little to the individuals scrambling to load their trucks in the wee hours of the morning.
by PatBordersHelmet on Sep 20, 2008 8:44 PM EDT up reply actions
I doubt it’s much different at FedEx.
The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay
by Buckeye Brad on Sep 20, 2008 8:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I guess you win… but by Price is Right rules we both went bust.
by Logodaedalus on Sep 20, 2008 8:44 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s nice to know that the final game in Yankee Stadium will be in the regular season.
by Ryan on Sep 20, 2008 8:51 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Word.
On a related note, how much would you pay to see our boys give the Yankees a nostalgiac 22-0 beat-down to open the new stadium?
also that we won the final post season game in yankee stadium
by Gradyforpresident on Sep 21, 2008 1:37 AM EDT up reply actions
hey, that’s true! I didn’t even think about that
by Logodaedalus on Sep 21, 2008 1:57 AM EDT up reply actions
Well, with that perfect inning, Sowers has reached his peak….. he’s scheduled to hit a wall in the 6th. Let’s hope I’m wrong.
I love this Indians lineup that produces a base runner every inning. A long way away from late May/June version…
PS. Don’t come back Blake.
Blake made $6mil in 08? Since he’s due for a raise, I doubt he’ll be back.
by PatBordersHelmet on Sep 20, 2008 9:03 PM EDT up reply actions
What did he do now?
The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay
by Buckeye Brad on Sep 20, 2008 9:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, typical Choo.
The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay
by Buckeye Brad on Sep 20, 2008 9:17 PM EDT up reply actions
heh…. may as well get sucking out of his system this week
by Logodaedalus on Sep 20, 2008 9:11 PM EDT up reply actions
I would guess so. What’s his pitch count at…about 87? Might be able to go into the 8th if he gets through the next inning quickly
by Logodaedalus on Sep 20, 2008 9:10 PM EDT up reply actions
oh. I had been under the impression it was about 75 after 5… did he throw 19 in the 6th or did I pull that out of my ass?
by Logodaedalus on Sep 20, 2008 9:12 PM EDT up reply actions
seemed like it. I think 75 was heading into the 5th, not the 6th, reading back over the thread.
by Logodaedalus on Sep 20, 2008 9:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Take heed fellow LGTers: do not challenge APV to a pistol match. This guy is lightning quick.
by PatBordersHelmet on Sep 20, 2008 9:19 PM EDT up reply actions
If Choo keeps this up, and LaPorta is as advertised, our offense could be impressive next year. I am assuming Vic at first and Shop at C.
Skinner could play third in this arrangement and our offense would still be top notch.
I don’t see how La Porta is on the team out of spring training. Unless we trade Garko and he competes for 1b with Aubrey.
Yea, I agree. I guess in this hypothetical situation, Francisco starts out as the LF, and LaPorta breaks in sometime during the year.
I think it’s more likely that Choo will be the LF and Gootz the RF. I’m hoping Francisco is moved (maybe as a package w/ Shoppach) in the offseason. If not, he will probably share time with Gootz.
i think you’re underestimating shoppach’s value
by Gradyforpresident on Sep 21, 2008 1:40 AM EDT up reply actions
/scrambles to look up his contract situation
by Gradyforpresident on Sep 21, 2008 1:40 AM EDT up reply actions
what hole would it make sense to fill using a package of Francisco and Shoppach? I’m not sure I wouldn’t take a young but somewhat proven, middle of the rotation pitcher with a favorable contract and potential for upward mobility…. would that be unwise? Is Shoppach more valuable than Choo?
I’m not trying to pick a fight; I’m deferring to your greater wisdom on these matters, Jay.
by Logodaedalus on Sep 21, 2008 2:31 AM EDT up reply actions
young but somewhat proven, middle of the rotation pitcher with a favorable contract
Who would this guy be? The first name that pops in my head is Jake Westbrook. If we can hold out until June-July of next season we’ll have him – and still have Shoppach and Choo.
Resident LGT beer kinda sewer
may not exist. but if it did, it’d be worth Shoppach and B-Fran, don’t you think? I realize I moved the goal posts a bit by adding these extra qualifications, but
by Logodaedalus on Sep 21, 2008 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions
I forgot to mention that La Porta is HORRIBLE in the outfield. Worse than Dellucci. So, even if his bat is “major league” ready .. his glove is not.
Garko hitting .319 (.877 OPS) w/ RISP. Even better with 2 outs. Almost a polar opposite of last year.
Who is the real Ryan Garko?
Gee, Ryan, apparently people are not aware of the massive historical significance of our phone call.
are you suggesting you’re more of a Shaloub?
by Logodaedalus on Sep 20, 2008 10:09 PM EDT up reply actions
slightly OT:
the last three years have been some of the best of his career
from ’06 to ’08 he posted OPSes of 1.005, 1.029, and 1.033 (!!!!!!!!!)
PLEASE mark, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE
braves aren’t bringing him back. he just wants a few more years.
sign him to 3 years/$45 million
he becomes the best hitter on our team outside of sizemore
by Cap'n Snegiryov on Sep 20, 2008 10:10 PM EDT reply actions
whoops
meant to say “chipper jones” somewhere in that post ^^^
by Cap'n Snegiryov on Sep 20, 2008 10:10 PM EDT up reply actions
per schuerholz, who is like, their vice prez or something now
by Cap'n Snegiryov on Sep 20, 2008 10:14 PM EDT up reply actions
oh i misread it
what does he have an option year in ’09 or something then?
either way. . . we should still go after him for 2010
by Cap'n Snegiryov on Sep 20, 2008 10:15 PM EDT up reply actions
lol
oh i know. . . it’s a waste and destroys brain cells. but a guy can dream, yeah?
plus, we’re talking some hard hitting news from GQ here. you know, the standard bearer for sports journalism.
by Cap'n Snegiryov on Sep 20, 2008 10:19 PM EDT up reply actions
all in all, i prefer gin
actually, malt liquor or fortified wine
by Cap'n Snegiryov on Sep 20, 2008 10:22 PM EDT up reply actions
would have guessed vodka for a man of your handle
by Logodaedalus on Sep 20, 2008 10:24 PM EDT up reply actions
vodka does evil things to me
it turns me into raskolnikov
by Cap'n Snegiryov on Sep 20, 2008 10:25 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
more like “a guy who likes to pick fights which he has no chance at winning, given his opponent and/or current state of physical coordination”
by Cap'n Snegiryov on Sep 20, 2008 10:51 PM EDT up reply actions
A Sheffield?
Travis Hafner is overrated. Clarity is underrated. David Dellucci is David Dellucci.
by westbrook on Sep 20, 2008 11:43 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
But this is typical MLBTR … if you read the original article, it’s not at all confusing …
At the end of 2009, Jones will be a 37-year-old free agent. The cost-conscious Braves may hesitate to spend millions of dollars on an aging player who missed well over one hundred games between 2005 and 2007, as Jones did. "He’s suffered leg pulls far more often than he’d like," says Schuerholz, "and far more often than we would have preferred." He suspects Jones’s time on the DL will even weigh on the minds of Hall of Fame voters. "Some might wonder if he’s played enough. But with what he’s done as a switch-hitter, I think he gets in."
Will he play for the Braves in 2010? "Whether we can sign him is not just a function of our desire or our want or our hope," says Schuerholz carefully. "It’s a function of what his expectations become. We have great admiration for him, and we recognize clearly what his value is to this team. And we will measure that against what we believe to be his real, true ability to continue to function at that level. The reality of our business begs that we recognize the fact that it would be a really unusual development if he were to remain here."
Now, the MLBTR version isn’t wrong, but it’s not as clear. Moreover, the whole point of this post or any of their posts — of that whole site — is to post items like this as items of immediate interest, so that anyone not reading carefully (and not intimate with the Braves) would read it the way that you read it.
GQ doesn’t post ITEMS! like this, what they wrote was very clear, and they buried it deep inside a long, deep profile of a player. Because it’s not an ITEM!
ok, yeah the MLBTR write up is awfully misleading
completely changes the meaning behind what schuerholz was saying. it’s the difference between scheurholz saying “well, we hope we can afford him at the right price given his age and performance” and saying “f*ck him, he’s old, let’s dump him”.
of course, i’ve seen them cite hoynes as a primary authority on indians’ stories, so i should know better.
by Cap'n Snegiryov on Sep 20, 2008 10:29 PM EDT up reply actions
yup, from scouts inc:
Sep 19 : Beltre had two separate surgeries on Thursday, arthroscopic shoulder surgery on his left shoulder and reconstructive surgery on his left thumb, the Seattle Times reports.
http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2004/12/oakland-athletics.html
I don’t understand his contract situation. Is he on a year-to-year contract with the A’s until he’s hits FA eligibilty?
Yes. That is the rule, not the exception.
All players are in that state by default. The only way they’re not is if they sign a “lockup” deal.
This also is what arbitration is mostly used for — to set the salaries of players still 1-3 years from free agency.
slightly OT:
has anyone ever done a game theory type look at arbitration?
i just learned how it worked the other day and it seems like whoever designed it had the purpose of getting the two parties involved to reach a “nash equilibrium” of sorts with their offers. . . prime game theory stuff, what with one party’s actions being all dependent on whether or not they can anticipate the other’s.
sorry if i sound like a big ol’ douche here.
by Cap'n Snegiryov on Sep 20, 2008 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions
so “no” as in, my question is kind of pointless because the whole process was based on game theory and so it would be kind of pointless to do an analysis of it framing it in that way?
by Cap'n Snegiryov on Sep 20, 2008 10:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Pretty much. I wouldn’t say “pointless,” but this is hardly the first time two parties have agreed to use this kind of arbitration.
ok
i was pretty proud of myself when i finally learned what arbitration was.
it was one of those “black box” terms for me for such a long time.
by Cap'n Snegiryov on Sep 20, 2008 10:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Check the left sidebar on the front page, there’s a whole section of old entries under the heading “Contracts & Salaries.” Have fun, we’ll talk tomorrow.
cool, i’ll take a look through them
would be nice to gain a working understanding of that stuff
by Cap'n Snegiryov on Sep 20, 2008 10:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Rule of thumb: if a player has six years’ service and doesn’t have a contract, he’s a free agent. If he doesn’t have six years’ service time, he’s property of the club he’s on.
and kevin millar
amirite? damn scabs!
by Cap'n Snegiryov on Sep 20, 2008 10:49 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah i thought you were referring to the fact that donnelly isn’t a member of the players’ union. . . neither is millar, according to my wikipedia sources
by Cap'n Snegiryov on Sep 20, 2008 10:56 PM EDT up reply actions
No, I’m not someone who regards the MLBPA as a real union, therefore “scabs” not worthy of the same type of scorn by any stretch of the imagination. These are millionaire entertainers, not stevedores.
The Indians granted Donnelly an unusual contract clause by which they agreed to release him at the end of this season, even though he isn’t eligible for free agency. I am only aware of maybe two other cases ever where a player has been promised free agency without the service time to qualify, and the others were very high-profile signings, not trash-heap guys. It is a weird situation, and one I don’t like.
duly noted
i probably should read through that sidebar information eh? ha ha
by Cap'n Snegiryov on Sep 20, 2008 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Not really, the Donnelly thing is pretty obscure. There probably aren’t a half-dozen fans who know about it and could explain it, and most of them are on this site.
i see
well, as bad of a precedent as it may or may not set, my heart will not be broken when they exercise his little mandatory release clause
by Cap'n Snegiryov on Sep 20, 2008 11:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Mine either, but what annoys me about it is, why are we wasting time with the guy at all if we don’t control him for at least one more season?
I mean, wouldn’t you rather watch Jon Meloan every single time?
by Jay on Sep 20, 2008 11:10 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
yeah i can’t really think of any situation where we should trot out donnelly. completely pointless—he’s a trash reliever on a non-contending team.
have we even used meloan since expanding the roster?
by Cap'n Snegiryov on Sep 20, 2008 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions
i see that we’ve used him once. nice
by Cap'n Snegiryov on Sep 20, 2008 11:16 PM EDT up reply actions
I had my 494 queued in case we lost, but this is better
by Logodaedalus on Sep 20, 2008 10:41 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m not at all hardcore, but I think the idea was that it reduced The Force from being a universal spiritual force to a mundane chemical thing that can be measured. Before, it was like being clutch. Now, it’s like having a good fastball.
by Jay on Sep 20, 2008 10:48 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Kai Haaskivi remains my favorite member of the Force.
by PatBordersHelmet on Sep 20, 2008 10:49 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
I don’t really know, though, you’d have to ask someone who’s really into it.
I own, like, zero Star Wars anything.
I’m really not that kind of a geek… really I’m not!
by Logodaedalus on Sep 20, 2008 10:57 PM EDT up reply actions
because it sounds really, really, really bloody stupid. (i once was way into star wars.) it took something that was mythical and mysterious and turned it into a freaking faux-chemistry mutation. blah.
by Gradyforpresident on Sep 21, 2008 1:51 AM EDT up reply actions
We have a brand new season!
Oh wait
by Logodaedalus on Sep 20, 2008 10:39 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I have a fever, queasiness and two tickets behind home plate for tomorrow’s game.
You think I’ll make it?
by PatBordersHelmet on Sep 20, 2008 10:43 PM EDT reply actions
I think you can get there on time if you take the D Train
by Logodaedalus on Sep 20, 2008 10:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I’m trying not to look too forward to D-Train coming off the rails and SLewis extending the streak.
by PatBordersHelmet on Sep 20, 2008 10:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Anyone expect in April that the high point of our September would be reaching .500? Nobody? Sigh.
http://hasthelargehadroncolliderdestroyedtheworldyet.com -- just in case.
For me the high point might have been watching Fausto kick Sheffield’s ass… or…. punch his head, rather. But I like .500 okay. Either way, your point stands.
by Logodaedalus on Sep 20, 2008 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions
punching someone’s head is kind of the opposite of kicking their ass, in a way, isn’t it?
by Logodaedalus on Sep 20, 2008 11:40 PM EDT up reply actions
saturday night live is god awful.
and yes i meant to put that in the subject line.
by Gradyforpresident on Sep 21, 2008 1:59 AM EDT reply actions
i mean, i know people are trying to say james franco is the new james dean.
but man he looked awkward as hell. him – and every cast member – was simply bad at reading off the teleprompter. ugh.
by Gradyforpresident on Sep 21, 2008 2:00 AM EDT up reply actions
Wow, I am so sorry I missed this game (and thread). So, let’s see. We’re .500, our injured regulars are starting to get healthy, we’re still not in the top 15 teams, we’re ahead of the Tigers, and we’re giving some playing time to the guys we need to know more about (ok, except for Marte’s 1.5 PA per game). It’s almost as if one of us magically wished for the season to end this way a few weeks ago, but asked if that was too much to ask.
"Lotta heart in Cleveland." - Ian Hunter
by Denver Tribe Fan on Sep 21, 2008 2:54 AM EDT reply actions
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