Cleveland Indians @ Chicago White Sox GameThread, Sep 28, 2008 2:05 PM EDT

Hey, guys? Sal Fasano’s on this baseball team. How great is that?

by fleerdon on Sep 28, 2008 1:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

from Castrovince:

Hafner is in a 1-for-18 funk.

Hafner is in a ~~1-for-~~18 month funk. Fixed.

by APV on Sep 28, 2008 1:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

This might be my fave Tribe Gameday pic evar.

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In Cliff we trust.

by vbc3 on Sep 28, 2008 1:36 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs

Screw the Browns. It’s time for a relaxing day of baseball as I plan on flipping back and forth between the Tribe-ChiSox game and the CC Sabathia 3-day rest epic performance on WGN.

by obobcatu on Sep 28, 2008 1:40 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Plus there’s the Mets-Marlins game on TBS. Only game that isn’t on local or national TV is Twins-Royals.

by Ryan on Sep 28, 2008 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Baboo!

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In Cliff we trust.

by vbc3 on Sep 28, 2008 2:09 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

BLAAAH

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In Cliff we trust.

by vbc3 on Sep 28, 2008 2:10 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

If we’re going to bring back the 2005 parallels, Bullington has to be Seth McClung.

by Ryan on Sep 28, 2008 2:19 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

JHONNY!!!

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In Cliff we trust.

by vbc3 on Sep 28, 2008 2:19 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Jhonny!

by Ryan on Sep 28, 2008 2:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

more please

by Fios on Sep 28, 2008 2:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Hhome Rhun!

by Logodaedalus on Sep 28, 2008 2:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

who scores more today, Indians or Browns?

by APV on Sep 28, 2008 2:25 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Last week they tied, I think.

by Ryan on Sep 28, 2008 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Tribe.

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In Cliff we trust.

by vbc3 on Sep 28, 2008 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

that was a no-doubter from Jhonny, huh?

by APV on Sep 28, 2008 2:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

That was actually kinda predictable.

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In Cliff we trust.

by vbc3 on Sep 28, 2008 2:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I don’t like that guy

by APV on Sep 28, 2008 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Twins, you’re on your own this time.

by Ryan on Sep 28, 2008 2:30 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Alexei Ramirez is possibly weirder looking than Sweet Baboo.

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In Cliff we trust.

by vbc3 on Sep 28, 2008 2:31 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Is that breaking ball of Bullington’s any good? It’s slow, and the break is interesting to watch, but is it actually, like, effective?

by fleerdon on Sep 28, 2008 2:34 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

This is not a good inning, here.

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In Cliff we trust.

by vbc3 on Sep 28, 2008 2:34 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

(/me covers eyes)

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In Cliff we trust.

by vbc3 on Sep 28, 2008 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ugh. Is anybody available in long relief today? Sowers?

by fleerdon on Sep 28, 2008 2:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Spin the wheel!

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In Cliff we trust.

by vbc3 on Sep 28, 2008 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oh, Baboo.

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In Cliff we trust.

by vbc3 on Sep 28, 2008 2:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Pathet.

by fleerdon on Sep 28, 2008 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Geez, Carroll, that’s two in two games.

by Ryan on Sep 28, 2008 2:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

CC gave up one. Guzman’s dealing.

by fleerdon on Sep 28, 2008 2:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, well, enjoy it while it lasts, fans. We’re getting these back.

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In Cliff we trust.

by vbc3 on Sep 28, 2008 2:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Bad last 30 minutes for Cleveland sports fans.

by APV on Sep 28, 2008 2:42 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I don’t know if it’s been the last 30 minutes, the last 2 years have been killing me.

Fingers crossed, but breathing normally

by Chief WaDrew on Sep 28, 2008 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

what happened w/ the clowns?

by bewwolv on Sep 28, 2008 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

DA has looked like Boekman…the one who’s vision goes blurry when the blitz is bearing down

Fingers crossed, but breathing normally

by Chief WaDrew on Sep 28, 2008 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

DA int

by APV on Sep 28, 2008 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Will he survive the half?

by fleerdon on Sep 28, 2008 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Did LeBron sign with the Nets?

by odradek on Sep 28, 2008 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ok, that could have been a lot worse. We still got this.

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In Cliff we trust.

by vbc3 on Sep 28, 2008 2:45 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Ah, son of gun. The Brewers can’t buy a baserunner. They’re playing tight as a snare drum.

by fleerdon on Sep 28, 2008 2:53 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

The shift dp

Fingers crossed, but breathing normally

by Chief WaDrew on Sep 28, 2008 2:54 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I’m on baseball overload right now. Too many games to keep flipping back and forth to, including, at the request of my family members, the Browns.

by obobcatu on Sep 28, 2008 2:58 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Minnesota up 1-0. Top of 3rd.

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In Cliff we trust.

by vbc3 on Sep 28, 2008 2:58 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Jamey Carroll sucks. If Marte were healthy, Jamey would still be at third today.

by odradek on Sep 28, 2008 3:01 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Beard gets you playing time. Ask David Dellucci.

by obobcatu on Sep 28, 2008 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hafner’s 2009 walk-up music will be Barber’s “Adagio For Strings.”

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In Cliff we trust.

by vbc3 on Sep 28, 2008 3:03 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Downloading “Adagio For Strings” right now.

by obobcatu on Sep 28, 2008 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It pretty well describes my feelings for The Player Formerly Known As Pronk.

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In Cliff we trust.

by vbc3 on Sep 28, 2008 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It should be the jingle from the Subway ad.

by odradek on Sep 28, 2008 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oh….Travis

by Logodaedalus on Sep 28, 2008 3:03 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

In fairness to the Twins, we should have played our best squad. Hafner is not part of that squad at the moment.

by peter m on Sep 28, 2008 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hafner is not part of that squad ~~at the moment~~.

by odradek on Sep 28, 2008 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

C’mon. What happened to cockeyed optimism?

by peter m on Sep 28, 2008 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

He’s sitting on the bench.

by odradek on Sep 28, 2008 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

This is some Big Picture game. Hafner can think about his fine performance all winter.

If we have to start a lefthander at DH, donde est Choo?

by odradek on Sep 28, 2008 3:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I threw my remote when I saw Choo wasn’t in the lineup.

by obobcatu on Sep 28, 2008 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Unfortunately you missed Hafner’s head!

by peter m on Sep 28, 2008 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hafner swung and topped it weakly to Konerko.

by odradek on Sep 28, 2008 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

If the Indians’ best pitcher had to miss his start, it was imperative that the Indians’ best hitter not play either.

by xrickx on Sep 28, 2008 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Kelly’s aiming for the moon again, isn’t he.

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In Cliff we trust.

by vbc3 on Sep 28, 2008 3:12 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

He doesn’t understand that a leadoff walk is actually a good thing

by Logodaedalus on Sep 28, 2008 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

FSN Wisconsin speed gun is broke— every CC pitch is registering at 105mph.

by xrickx on Sep 28, 2008 3:15 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

He’s on roids…not a misfunction

by Tribe_Hippie on Sep 28, 2008 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

AAUUGGGHHHH

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In Cliff we trust.

by vbc3 on Sep 28, 2008 3:16 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

gah

by Voltaire on Sep 28, 2008 3:16 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Well, friends, I’ve had enough regular season baseball. Thanks, everybody.

by fleerdon on Sep 28, 2008 3:16 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

This looks more like spring training.

by xrickx on Sep 28, 2008 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

blargh!

by Logodaedalus on Sep 28, 2008 3:16 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Two batters chased ball four and the one that reached base got picked off. Just hand them the game.

by xrickx on Sep 28, 2008 3:19 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

going down in three batters is almost as good as having the bases loaded and nobody out, right?

by Logodaedalus on Sep 28, 2008 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Both the Mets and Brewers down 1-0.

by Ryan on Sep 28, 2008 3:24 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Cubs aren’t running out their relief aces…I was hoping Braun/Fielder could do some damage.

by xrickx on Sep 28, 2008 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

yeah, this one’s on the Brewer offense.

by Ryan on Sep 28, 2008 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

At least Baker looks good for the Twinkies.

by xrickx on Sep 28, 2008 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Perez walked in a run – Mets down 2-0

by Ryan on Sep 28, 2008 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

oops, Joe Smith walked the run in.

by Ryan on Sep 28, 2008 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Go Marlins.

by xrickx on Sep 28, 2008 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I just noticed that Carlos Zambrano played for the Cubs today. As a pinch hitter!

by LeCavs Matt on Sep 28, 2008 3:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

The Cubs are going with “staff” today.

by Ryan on Sep 28, 2008 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I might have misheard this on WGN but …
“Do you think CC is on a pitch count today?”
“N-yeah. Maybe about 315.”

by LeCavs Matt on Sep 28, 2008 3:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Jeezus, effing double plays

by Logodaedalus on Sep 28, 2008 3:31 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Ugh … and look what happens next.

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In Cliff we trust.

by vbc3 on Sep 28, 2008 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ben Francisco finally doesn’t pull a ball….and it’s a double play. Commence pull-everything approach.

by xrickx on Sep 28, 2008 3:31 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Why is everyone discussing the Brewers, Cubs, and Mets…..The Friends of the Feather are trying to ruin the Sox season here

by Tribe_Hippie on Sep 28, 2008 3:31 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

As much as I want to knock out the Sox, the Brewers have a real impact on the Indians.

by LeCavs Matt on Sep 28, 2008 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

PTBNL in CC deal depends on Brewers making the playoffs, which requires them beating the Cubs. And it also depends on the Mets.

by xrickx on Sep 28, 2008 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Frikkin Frick!

by Logodaedalus on Sep 28, 2008 3:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Rich Rundles!

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In Cliff we trust.

by vbc3 on Sep 28, 2008 3:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Has an aversion to Jim Thome, apparently.

by xrickx on Sep 28, 2008 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not a bad day for Bullington. He didn’t have very good command, but it’s a different ballgame, probably 1-1, if Carroll handles that groundball.

by xrickx on Sep 28, 2008 3:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Or if Carroll doesn’t play.

by LeCavs Matt on Sep 28, 2008 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

With Marte out for the year, I’d rather see Carroll than Barfield.

by xrickx on Sep 28, 2008 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Mussina with a 3-0 lead in the 4th inning in his quest for 20 wins.

by xrickx on Sep 28, 2008 3:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

CC just missed a homerun. No doubter but just foul.

by xrickx on Sep 28, 2008 3:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

dang

by Voltaire on Sep 28, 2008 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Mets just tied it up.

by Ryan on Sep 28, 2008 3:42 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Lefties reaching, righties hitting into double plays against Rundles

by Logodaedalus on Sep 28, 2008 3:43 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Pedroia now hitting .327 with a 2-2 day, while Mauer, with an 0-3 so far, is at .328. Luck is with Boston, as Pedroia hit a routine grounder that hit a rock, bounced up and hit the shortstop in the chest, and he was awarded a base hit by the home scorer.

by xrickx on Sep 28, 2008 3:44 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Tigers are about to secure at least a tie for last place in the AL Central.

by xrickx on Sep 28, 2008 3:48 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Ugh. Haf chased ball three and four. Probably should have sat this one out.

by xrickx on Sep 28, 2008 3:51 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Golden opportunity for the brewers here.

by Ryan on Sep 28, 2008 3:53 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, if they can’t get this guy around, they don’t deserve it.

by LeCavs Matt on Sep 28, 2008 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ballsy move by Durham. When the ball was hit I started thinking to myself about whether I’d have Durham try to steal 3rd since I thought he’d be stuck on 2nd.

by LeCavs Matt on Sep 28, 2008 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

He hobbled into 2B on the double. He used to be fast.

by xrickx on Sep 28, 2008 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

bases loaded, one out.

by Ryan on Sep 28, 2008 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wow

by LeCavs Matt on Sep 28, 2008 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

MOTHER BLESSED GOD BLOODY ACK FFFFFFFFF

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In Cliff we trust.

by vbc3 on Sep 28, 2008 3:56 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

This is Jamie Moyer v. Roberto Alomar territory.

by xrickx on Sep 28, 2008 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

+1

by Logodaedalus on Sep 28, 2008 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

God bless Grady Sizemore

by Tribe_Hippie on Sep 28, 2008 4:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Might have lost his bat a month ago, but he has been A-OK with the glove.

by xrickx on Sep 28, 2008 4:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

GRADY!!!

EAT THAT, HAWK.

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In Cliff we trust.

by vbc3 on Sep 28, 2008 4:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

“Dag Gummit!”

by Logodaedalus on Sep 28, 2008 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

nice catch

by Logodaedalus on Sep 28, 2008 4:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Wow. Crap at-bat by Corey Hart.

by xrickx on Sep 28, 2008 4:03 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, that was pathetic

by Ryan on Sep 28, 2008 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

So was that.

by xrickx on Sep 28, 2008 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Corey Hart isn’t all that good, IMO.

Travis Hafner is overrated. Clarity is underrated. David Dellucci is David Dellucci.

by westbrook on Sep 28, 2008 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Nice play by Carroll

by Tribe_Hippie on Sep 28, 2008 4:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Brewers tie it up

by LeCavs Matt on Sep 28, 2008 4:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

A break!

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In Cliff we trust.

by vbc3 on Sep 28, 2008 4:06 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Wow, both NL games tied with just a couple innings to go.

by Ryan on Sep 28, 2008 4:07 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I can’t juggle all these games. This is heaven.

by xrickx on Sep 28, 2008 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

F—-

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In Cliff we trust.

by vbc3 on Sep 28, 2008 4:07 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

It’s Juan Rincon. This story’s ending was written long ago.

by xrickx on Sep 28, 2008 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It’s on the Twins now.

by Ryan on Sep 28, 2008 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

and/or the Tigers

by Logodaedalus on Sep 28, 2008 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

well, there goes that.

by Logodaedalus on Sep 28, 2008 4:08 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

And really, what’s the point in taking out Rincon now? It was a bloop.

by xrickx on Sep 28, 2008 4:09 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

CC is doing his part, that’s for sure.

by Ryan on Sep 28, 2008 4:13 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

That’s the truth. He has to be done at 8 and 106 pitches, right? Or will he go all 9 on all this short rest?

by LeCavs Matt on Sep 28, 2008 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

And he’s due to lead off.

by LeCavs Matt on Sep 28, 2008 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Certainly some personal redemption. He’s been very Josh Beckett.

by xrickx on Sep 28, 2008 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Marlins take the lead!

by Ryan on Sep 28, 2008 4:16 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Sabathia is batting. He’s staying in this game.

by xrickx on Sep 28, 2008 4:17 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Rincon made another appearance? LORD…

Travis Hafner is overrated. Clarity is underrated. David Dellucci is David Dellucci.

by westbrook on Sep 28, 2008 4:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Blobby Jenks warming.

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In Cliff we trust.

by vbc3 on Sep 28, 2008 4:19 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Tribe in full suitcase mode. Let’s go out of here, boys.

by odradek on Sep 28, 2008 4:22 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Let’s get out of here.

by odradek on Sep 28, 2008 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

If I were a rational man, I would switch to the Brewers game now. And yet, I keep clinging to that little thread of 4-run 9th inning rally hope

by Logodaedalus on Sep 28, 2008 4:23 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

thread? that should probably be “shred”

by Logodaedalus on Sep 28, 2008 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Brewers up 2! Braun homer

by LeCavs Matt on Sep 28, 2008 4:23 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

nice!!

by Logodaedalus on Sep 28, 2008 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

So Torres in the ninth? heh

by Ryan on Sep 28, 2008 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

No way. I’m sure he’s up, but this is CCs.

by LeCavs Matt on Sep 28, 2008 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAA

by xrickx on Sep 28, 2008 4:23 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Whoohooo

by supermarioelia on Sep 28, 2008 4:24 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

YES

Travis Hafner is overrated. Clarity is underrated. David Dellucci is David Dellucci.

by westbrook on Sep 28, 2008 4:24 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

CC could literally pitch the Brewers into the playoffs.

by Ryan on Sep 28, 2008 4:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Let’s Go Brewers!

by APV on Sep 28, 2008 4:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

So you want to be a major-league manager?

Tough call here for Sveum.

by Ryan on Sep 28, 2008 4:31 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Edmonds can’t hit lefties.

by LeCavs Matt on Sep 28, 2008 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Do you pull him if another guy reaches?

by LeCavs Matt on Sep 28, 2008 4:32 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Good thing CC has a reputation for thriving under pressure. Oh, wait…

by cleveland teamer on Sep 28, 2008 4:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I want Chuck to explain C.C.’s performance down the stretch.

by Voltaire on Sep 28, 2008 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Brewers win!

by LeCavs Matt on Sep 28, 2008 4:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Wow, he is the man.

by cleveland teamer on Sep 28, 2008 4:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Ballgame!

by Ryan on Sep 28, 2008 4:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

We win!….or something like that….

by APV on Sep 28, 2008 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I’m thinking Big Picture here.

by Ryan on Sep 28, 2008 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

What if the guy who looks like the better prospect now ends up being the worse one? Then we lost today.

Travis Hafner is overrated. Clarity is underrated. David Dellucci is David Dellucci.

by westbrook on Sep 28, 2008 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

So true. Remember when we wanted a major leaguer and couldn’t get the Expos to give up Brad Wilkerson, so we had to settle for this low-minors guy Grady Sizemore?

by Jay on Sep 28, 2008 8:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

2 on, 2 out for the Mets in the 8th

by LeCavs Matt on Sep 28, 2008 4:34 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Inning over

by cleveland teamer on Sep 28, 2008 4:34 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

or is it a pitching change? they were cutting away as I flipped to the channel

by cleveland teamer on Sep 28, 2008 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

nevermind, still 2 on

by cleveland teamer on Sep 28, 2008 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The perfect end to the season.

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In Cliff we trust.

by vbc3 on Sep 28, 2008 4:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

and so it ends

by APV on Sep 28, 2008 4:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

That was fairly fitting. C’mon, Minnesota!

Il faut d'abord durer.

by CU Adam on Sep 28, 2008 4:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

CARSTEN FUCKING CHARLES

Travis Hafner is overrated. Clarity is underrated. David Dellucci is David Dellucci.

by westbrook on Sep 28, 2008 4:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Milwaukee should give us an extra PTBNL for this

by cleveland teamer on Sep 28, 2008 4:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Will CC have anything left in the tank for the playoffs? Do the Brewers dare trying to trot him out twice in the first round?

by LeCavs Matt on Sep 28, 2008 4:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

i think no and no…but we’ll see. cc is a stud.

by APV on Sep 28, 2008 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

This is hilarious.

Hurry Mets! Time is almost up!

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In Cliff we trust.

by vbc3 on Sep 28, 2008 4:40 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

That Aaron Heilman shot made it worth reading, lol.

by obobcatu on Sep 28, 2008 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

What’s going on at Shea? I can’t seem to get the game going, or even the scoreboard page

by Logodaedalus on Sep 28, 2008 4:40 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

It’s on TBS. Mets down 4-2 in the 9th.

by LeCavs Matt on Sep 28, 2008 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't know what's going on with my computer. Even Gameday won't open. I don't have actual TV, so I can't watch it on TBS either.

by Logodaedalus on Sep 28, 2008 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Gameday is frozen. Even ESPN feed is stalled.

by odradek on Sep 28, 2008 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I finally got it running…

by Logodaedalus on Sep 28, 2008 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

4-2 the team that isn’t the Mets

by Voltaire on Sep 28, 2008 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

So, is CC going to get the NL Cy Young award, which should rightfully be his?

by obobcatu on Sep 28, 2008 4:46 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

He should probably get MVP

by Logodaedalus on Sep 28, 2008 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Good point.

by cleveland teamer on Sep 28, 2008 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Lincecum’s been pretty legit. Webb probably gets it because of the wins and the innings, but it should go to TIm Lincecum or Johan Santana, even before Webb.

by xrickx on Sep 28, 2008 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

But…CC has to get something, right?

by obobcatu on Sep 28, 2008 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Um…his paycheck, the respect of his teammates, and a huge contract this winter.

by xrickx on Sep 28, 2008 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

What player has been more singularly valuable to their team’s postseason chances than him? The MVP deck is stacked against pitchers, but I can’t think of anyone who deserves it more.

by Logodaedalus on Sep 28, 2008 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I’m with Chuck now. C.C. has done his job for the PLTBN, but he is dead to us. He is on his way to becoming a Yankee or Red Sox.

by odradek on Sep 28, 2008 4:56 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I personally can’t wait for him to prove what a postseason choke artist he is a second time.

by salome on Sep 28, 2008 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Whoa did Ozzie just walk in during the Wedge post-game?

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In Cliff we trust.

by vbc3 on Sep 28, 2008 4:56 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Based on today’s game, I would conclude Wedge prefers Ozzie to Gardenhire.

by odradek on Sep 28, 2008 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Mets are down to one more out.

by xrickx on Sep 28, 2008 5:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

HUZZAH! We “win”!

by Voltaire on Sep 28, 2008 5:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

PTBNL, here we come!

by Logodaedalus on Sep 28, 2008 5:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

“We” win!

by Logodaedalus on Sep 28, 2008 5:06 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Commence the demolition of Shea Stadium, now.

by odradek on Sep 28, 2008 5:08 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

by odradek on Sep 28, 2008 5:10 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Yankee pen trying to deny Mussina his 20th.

by xrickx on Sep 28, 2008 5:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I am conflicted over this. Years ago, Mussina was perhaps my favorite non-Tribe pitcher. Then, to my great horror, came The Pinstripe Years. Somehow, I still find myself pulling for the guy at odd times such as today.

--
In Cliff we trust.

by vbc3 on Sep 28, 2008 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Whatever will we do without a New York team in the playoffs?

by Ryan on Sep 28, 2008 5:13 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

at least we have Boston for the media to fawn over

by Logodaedalus on Sep 28, 2008 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Finally have the luxury of focusing our hate toward one team, assuming the White Sox don’t make it.

by xrickx on Sep 28, 2008 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hate Boston even more

by APV on Sep 28, 2008 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs

Rec

--
In Cliff we trust.

by vbc3 on Sep 28, 2008 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

familiarity breeds contempt

by bewwolv on Sep 28, 2008 7:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I recall that when Miami and Cleveland went to the WS, the paper quoted an NBC exec saying that he hoped for “four and out.” If Boston falters early, I can easily imagine a repeat of that line.

--
In Cliff we trust.

by vbc3 on Sep 28, 2008 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Soo, sorry I’m late. What is the situation now with the Twinkies and Sox? The Sox have to play against the tigers, right? If they win that, then what happens?

Don't be stupid. PUT IN MELOAN.

by gte619n on Sep 28, 2008 5:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

That forces a game vs The Twins on Tuesday, no?

--
In Cliff we trust.

by vbc3 on Sep 28, 2008 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Then they play Tuesday in a one game playoff.

by obobcatu on Sep 28, 2008 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Gotcha. Word. Go… Tigers……………………………………………………………..?

Don't be stupid. PUT IN MELOAN.

by gte619n on Sep 28, 2008 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah. I feel like I need to wash.

--
In Cliff we trust.

by vbc3 on Sep 28, 2008 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It’s all gross, but it’s all great, too.

I think I want the White Sox to win tomorrow, then get beat down by the Twins on Tuesday.

Even if they win on Tuesday, they go into the postseason all bloody.

I mainly think that after this weekend, nobody’s thinking the Twins and Chisox look any better than the Indians, or for that matter the Royals.

by Jay on Sep 28, 2008 8:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The Sox have to beat both the Tigers and the Twins in the next two days, otherwise it’s the Twins in the playoffs

by Logodaedalus on Sep 28, 2008 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Freddy Garcia goes for the Tigers tomorrow in Chicago. And the Tuesday game, if it’s played, will be in Chi as well.

The Tribe really crapped the bed today. Didn’t even stress the White Sox bullpen.

Maybe the Ozzie Choke picture should come down? They didn’t choke, as the Tribe did when Ozzie made the gesture.

by odradek on Sep 28, 2008 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yes, they did. They were facing Scott Lewis, Zach Jackson and Bullington, on a weekend the Twins lost 2 of 3 to the Royals, and they still have to win two more just to make the postseason. They didn’t get swept, but they did choke.

by FredOx on Sep 28, 2008 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Tribe was playing a post-celebration Sox team in Cleveland needing one win, and couldn’t do it. Couldn’t win even one. Indians had a chance to end the Sox’ season today, and spit the bit.

Almost doesn’t do it.

by odradek on Sep 28, 2008 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hello odradek,

No offense, but do you realize how much harder the Indians have made the White Sox’s postseason run, presuming they even make it?

The White Sox have to use Gavin Floyd, who is probably their 2nd-best pitcher at worst, maybe their best pitcher (especially down the stretch) to win on Monday against the Tigers, then have to play on Tuesday against the Twins if they win that one. I presume Danks is going in that one – not sure, but again, their rotation is really going to be messed up for that first round against the Rays, if they even make it to the postseason. Then that leaves them with Buerhle, who pitched today, but has been pretty erratic for most of the second half, and Vazquez (uh-oh!) for the first two games against the Rays. You don’t think that inspires the White Sox with much confidence, do you?

Never mind the fact that James Shields, Scott Kazmir, and Andy Sonnanstine will be pitching on at least regular rest and the rest of the team gets a few extra days to get healthy (such as Crawford who was out for 6 weeks with a broken finger and Pena who was out the last two games with an illness).

Trust me, this is NOT the way the White Sox wanted to go into the postseason, and I doubt they really thought this Indians team would take two games from them on the final weekend of the regular season, especially when Cliff Lee wasn’t going to pitch in the series. And without us taking those first two games, we wouldn’t have even been in a position to end Chicago’s season. And if the Royals had won today, a loss still wouldn’t have ended Chicago’s season, so it just happened that the White Sox are still alive, but on life support.

In my mind, the White Sox choked – yes, they may still be alive, but they’re at a severe disadvantage if they do make the postseason. And before this game today, would you have been happy for us to take 2 out of 3 from the White Sox before this series even started?

Give the Indians some credit – they didn’t roll over in the second half of this season like the Tigers and a few other healthier teams did, and very few teams come back from 16 games under .500 to finish at .500, especially after their ace is traded, their second-best pitcher to start the season (Carmona) is injured for a good portion of the season and is relatively (compared to 2007) ineffective when he did pitch, and our third-best pitcher to start the season (Westbrook) makes barely a handful of starts before he’s out for all of 2008 and most of 2009. Never mind the fact that we likely have the 2008 AL Cy Young Award winner on our staff and some encouraging performances from young guys like Shoppach and Choo that could help the Indians return to the postseason in 2009.

So they lost one game today out of three in the series – big deal in my opinion. It’s hard to sweep a team anyway, and as I said above, I doubt the White Sox thought we’d win this series, especially with Lee not going in the series. Maybe the White Sox stepped up their game today because they knew there was a solid chance they’d be going home if they didn’t and only played their “B” game the first two games, thinking that’s all it would take to beat the young and banged-up Indians. Therefore, in my mind, it is a choke – they had the chance to take advantage of the Royals’ unexpected wins against the Twins, after Chicago failed to win any games against the Twins earlier in the week, and didn’t take advantage of it. That constitutes a “choke” in my mind – the fact they still have a faint pulse for the postseason doesn’t negate the fact that they “choked” away an opportunity to put themselves in a better position to win the World Series. Now they’re taking arguably the hardest road you can take to get there, as they, a relatively “old” team, don’t have any time to rest or get their pitching staff in order, AND they have to play 2 extra games just to get to the postseason. All they needed to do was win one more game against us, either against the rookie Scott Lewis who was hit around a bit in his last start, or the once-heralded, but underachieving, Zach Jackson, at home to avoid this, but they failed to do that. That’s still a choke. They should be counting their blessings they still have playoff life, because their play over the last 7-10 days really doesn’t look reminiscient of a playoff team. We did enough damage to pay them back in my opinion because we put them at a severe disadvantage for the postseason, provided they even make the postseason, which is hardly a given at this point, especially since Detroit showed more fight against Tampa Bay than was expected. Combine that with the fact that it’s former White Sox pitcher Freddy Garcia, a key component of their 2005 World Series pitching staff, facing them, and I’m pretty certain this is NOT how the White Sox wanted to finish up this Sunday evening, especially with the Twins unexpectingly losing 2 of 3 to the Royals at the Metrodome, where the White Sox only managed to win 1 game out of 9 against the Twins all season.

The White Sox choked away a great opportunity – period. The fact they still have playoff life doesn’t negate the fact they could have been in a much better position going into this week than having to play two tough games to begin the postseason, when arguably, they may be the weakest of the 4 AL teams and need to gain every advantage they can get, and having a relatively “old” team playing two extra games and throwing your rotation into disarray don’t seem like advantages to me. The Indians, Twins, and Royals all had a hand in forcing the White Sox down this playoff path – and the 4th AL Central team, the Tigers, will play a factor in whether the White Sox can navigate this tightrope or not even reach the postseason. Give the Indians their due credit, not complain about not sweeping the Sox.

Just my 2 cents – no offense.

The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.

by indiansfan on Sep 28, 2008 8:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sorry indiansfan, but I don’t buy the feel-good story. Sure, the White Sox will be at a disadvantage if they get into the postseason. But they still may get into the postseason. This is more than the Indians could accomplish in 2005. Brandon McCarthy beat the Indians on the last day of the season, and knocked the Tribe out of the postseason. When the Tribe had the opportunity today to do the same, they failed.

This is simply rationalization for a disappointing season. This game was emblematic in many ways (bullpen disappointment, 3b disappointment, offensive disappointment) of the 2008 season. The Indians had a chance and blew it. End of story.

by odradek on Sep 28, 2008 8:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

odradek,

If you’ve listened to Wedge, he doesn’t give a “damn” who wins between Chicago and Minnesota, so I doubt he’s going to grade the Indians on one loss at the end of a long season. He also has stated that he never thought about 2005.

I doubt the players are going to fuss over this last game either. They’ll be disappointed about not making the postseason, sure, but considering all the factors I mentioned above, would any team have overcome that? The Yankees had no more key injuries than us (arguably less than we did) and a bigger payroll and they didn’t make the postseason either. If the Red Sox had lost Matsuzaka, Lester, Ortiz, and Ramirez for the time periods we lost Carmona, Westbrook, Hafner, and Martinez, do you really think they’d be going to the postseason? Very likely not. Give the Indians some credit on going 41-25 since July 10 when they could have mailed in the season like the Tigers did.

It annoys me a bit that you want to grade the Indians on the last game of the season – talk about a very SSS. I was far more annoyed with losing the last 3 games to the Red Sox in the 2007 ALCS than I am with this loss. Quite frankly, I’m not overly concerned with the White Sox making the postseason because I think their chances of repeating what they did in 2005 are close to nil, being that I think they’re the weakest of the 4 AL teams, and are probably weaker than the Cubs, Phillies, and probably Dodgers. Even the Brewers could go toe-to-toe with these guys, especially with Sabathia leading the way and Gallardo with a promising return. Both teams rely on homeruns to score a majority of their runs, so I can’t even say the White Sox are better than them, so I’m not overly concerned with the White Sox reaching the postseason, IF they make the postseason. Without a similar run in 2005, and the elements don’t seem to be there, I don’t see the White Sox winning the WS.

Therefore, the fact they still have playoff life doesn’t bother me – it wouldn’t totally surprise me if the Tigers beat them tomorrow, especially since the Tigers played TB a lot better than I and most people thought they would. Konerko even came out and said that they (the White Sox) need to be ready to play, which makes me think that the White Sox might not be totally focused on this game, thinking the Tigers will just roll over. I doubt Leyland will let them roll over for this one game – he may even challenge his team to salvage something from this disappointing season, sort of like their own playoff game.

And, even if they do get past them, the Twins will be just as eager to win as the White Sox will, so that’s no lock for the White Sox either. Then, if they do get past both of them, they have the eager Rays waiting for them, in front of a sold-out home crowd. Trust me, the White Sox do NOT have an easy road, and just making the playoffs for the White Sox is not going to sit well with them, and at this point, I don’t see them doing what they did in 2005 – that team was considerably better in many areas – fundamentals, starting pitching, bullpen pitching, defense, etc. I don’t see all four areas turning around just like that, especially when they have to win two more games just to get in.

With all due respect, you need to get over 2005 – that’s ancient history now. As I said, these teams are much different from those teams back then. Wedge isn’t worried about what happened in 2005, and it’s likely the players aren’t either. Considering the state the Indians are currently in, taking 2 out of 3 from a team that is considered to be better and healthier than we are should encourage you for 2009, not cause you to knock them because they lost one game, which can happen to any team at any time.

Look at the Mets, for instance, who needed to beat a scrappy Marlins club on their home field, and didn’t do it. And that’s two straight years they haven’t gotten it done over the final weekend, which should show that collapses like what happened to us in 2005 do happen to other teams as well. And if the Mets hadn’t collapsed again, the Brewers would have, so again, collapses like what happened to us in 2005 can happen to any team. It’s unfortunate we collapsed in 2005, but there’s nothing we can do about that now, just like there’s nothing we can do about the 2007 ALCS collapse. All we can do is look forward and hope that when we get another opportunity, we learn from the past collapses and deliver the next time around. Reliving past failures will obscure your viewpoint of the positives that we had this season, and there WERE positives to this season, as many LGT posters, local media, and even national analysts have pointed out, which is why many of them have realistic high hopes for the 2009 Indians.

Just my 2 cents – no offense.

The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.

by indiansfan on Sep 28, 2008 8:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I’m not judging the Indians on the basis of their 162nd game. I said it was emblematic of their 2008 season.

I recognize that positive thoughts prevail around here. I’m more of a skeptic, even a pessimist. I am not as sure as you seem to be that we can have “realistic high hopes” for the Tribe in 2009. I have been a fan of the Indians for a long time, and I have learned to temper my hopes and expectations with the disappointments of experience. I’m not a sunshine-and-daisies kind of person by nature, but sometimes optimism collides with reality.

Yes, I’m not over 2005, or the ALCS in 2007, or 1995, 1997 or even 1994. I don’t think I ever will, but it’s not like these disappointments dominate my life. There were positives this season: A strong finish, the emergence of Choo and Shoppach. But it was a lousy season. The team went 13-15 in April, 12-15 in May, 12-16 in June and 10-14 in July. That’s four months of failure. It was a good thing, in hindsight, that the Tribe played its best ball in August and September, because had it gotten off to a 34-21 start, Matt LaPorta and Carlos Santana probably wouldn’t be here..

I think the Indians went on the field today with a certain sense or resignation, complacency and self-satisfaction. Playing Hafner today, bringing in Rincon (for whatever transcendent reasons Wedge had for playing him), these were kind gestures on the part of Wedge. But they weren’t acts of someone trying to win at all costs. Maybe that’s considered bush league to do, something only a lunatic would want. But I guess I dislike the White Sox more than most.

As to your question about the Red Sox if they had had such injuries: Manny played with them this year for 100 games; Ortiz for 108. They’re both better hitters than Hafner and Victor. I think if Boston had lost Matsuzaka and Lester (they did miss Schilling—a nonfactor—and Burnett for some time) they would have gone out and bought somebody new.

by odradek on Sep 28, 2008 9:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hello odradek,

I appreciate your thoughts.

Truth be told, I flash back to the failures of the past, such as 2007, 2005, 1999, 1997, 1995, etc. I still see the Renteria hit Nagy just missed catching and the 3-1 collapse in the ALCS last year from time to time, so I do understand how you feel – it sucks. I just try to bury those memories and hope that I see the one ending I and every Indians fan wants to see, the Indians raising their hands in triumph after the final out of the World Series is made. I hope that’s in the near future.

I too am not without some reservations about 2009 either; I think Shapiro and company do have some work to do to improve this club to be a 2009 playoff contender, but I think it is realistically possible for them to be in the 2009 playoffs, based on both the core of this team, the hopeful bounceback of bullpen arms like Betancourt, Perez, and Lewis (where I think the long 2007 season took a toll on them, especially stamina-wise and command-wise), and the future of the AL Central. As mentioned in another thread, the Twins will likely be a threat long-term, but certainly not insurmountable, being that their offense is a bit erratic and their pitching is a bit of a question mark. The White Sox are a relatively “old” team, and not much left in the farm system to help make it younger any time soon. I think they will start declining in the coming years, as even this season was not a great season, but merely a solid to good one at best (less than 90 wins). The Royals could be a force if they ever get everything together. The Tigers are also an “old” club for the most part, and like the White Sox, they too have a thin farm system that will not help to make that ballclub young in the near future, so I think the AL Central can be won by the 2009 Indians if the front office makes sound moves and things work out. That’s not a given, but certainly it’s a realistic possibility in my opinion.

In regards to the game today, there was no reason for the Indians to risk anyone, such as Lee – as Mike Hegan mentioned after the game today on the radio, you’re not going to risk Lee for one start that really doesn’t mean much for us, so starting Lee was not realistic, and in reality, a much smarter decision long-term than trying to keep the White Sox from the postseason. I’d rather Lee pitch close to the level he pitched this year next year rather than risk him pulling something that could keep him out for a long while and affect his ability long-term.

As for having Hafner in there, Wedge was just going by the, “Get Hafner his ABs every other day.” Certainly, Hafner is a big question mark long-term, and personally, I’m not confident about him returning to his 2004-2005 form, let alone his 2006 form – I’m not convinced his shoulder is the real problem behind his inability to hit, as his plate discipline doesn’t look the same. He’s not going after the pitches he can do damage with, while often chasing pitches that are out of the strike zone. That’s what made him such a good hitter (as good as Ortiz in my opinion before 2007) – he went after the pitches in the zone and did damage with them, whereas after the early part of 2007, he takes such weak swings at pitches out of the strike zone, often missing the ball entirely. I hope Hafner proves me wrong in 2009, but I’m not holding my breath on his returning to being one of the better hitters in baseball.

Regarding Rincon, Wedge just wanted to see him one more time, plus he probably didn’t want to use Perez on back-to-back days. Wedge had commented about a week or so ago that Perez seemed to be tiring a bit (which makes me wonder why Wedge kept going to him; I personally would have shut him down and saved his arm for 2009), and he used Betancourt later (I probably would have used him sooner if you wanted to have the best chance to win the game, but like I said above, the game didn’t mean much for the Indians).

I’m not particularly fond of the White Sox either (2005 is part of it, but I think it’s more Ozzie and some of the players on that ballclub, particularly A.J. and his attitude, that make me not like the White Sox very much), but again, I’d rather err on the side of caution when the game doesn’t mean much for us. I mean, does us going 82-80 make much of a difference as compared to going 81-81? Does the White Sox making or missing the postseason really matter to us and our future? Not really to either question – sure, it would have been nice to end the White Sox’s postseason hopes, but we’ve already made it 10-100X harder than what it had to be. Considering the shape the Indians are in and being 16 games under .500 at one point this season, along with losing (I think) every game at U.S. Cellular Field before this series, I don’t think taking 2 out of 3 from them is too shabby.

As for the Red Sox, you’re right about them going out and getting somebody else, though it still would have been more difficult for them to reach the postseason (they did miss in 2006, finishing 3rd behind Toronto). That was part of my point about the Yankees – they too had the resources and went out and got Nady, Marte, and I-Rod, yet still failed to make the playoffs (not even winning 90 games). Also recall that Bay, an established hitter, though not Manny’s caliber, played the rest of the season after Manny left, so it’s not like they replaced Manny with an inexperienced or relatively inexperienced player like Gutierrez, Choo, or Francisco, so I still think the Red Sox had the advantage health-wise over us. Ortiz missed a good amount of time, but Hafner missed more and Martinez missed close to that amount of time as well. While Ortiz is certainly a better hitter than Hafner is now, I think you could have made an argument for either being better just a few years ago. As for Victor and Manny, Manny certainly has more power, but Victor is well-above-average in his own right, while playing a more difficult position, so it’s not like Victor’s absence wasn’t felt, even with Shoppach’s emergence.

I forgot about Schilling, but we lost CC as well for the final 3 months of the season and replaced him with a toss-up of Sowers, Reyes, Lewis, and Jackson. Additionally, I really don’t think Schilling was in the Red Sox’s plans after the early part of the season – Beckett and Dice-K were there main 2 cogs in the rotation, and they were expecting big things from Lester. Perhaps Buchholz wouldn’t have been pushed so quickly, and his inability to stick this year caused them to go out and get Byrd, but I think that was a lesser loss than us losing 3/5 of our rotation for a good chunk of the season. If I recall correctly, Beckett only missed a few starts (2-4 at most), so he wasn’t gone all that long – Carmona missed more starts than that.

Again, I appreciate your thoughts. Happier days will hopefully be here again in the near future (i.e. next year)!

Just my 2 cents.

The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.

by indiansfan on Sep 28, 2008 11:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well, 89 games wins the AL wild card this season, and I think Boston could handle that. They have a lot of promising young players—Masterson, Bailey, Lowrie—and can always go buy someone if they need to (e.g., Byrd).

I agree with you that Hafner used to be good, even better than Ortiz. But he wasn’t (as you indicate) on a two-day schedule (one day playing, one day on the bench). I think Wedge just was hoping Hafner would have a big day and would go into the winter with positive thoughts. Maybe he wanted to show faith in him. Whatever. And as much as I like Victor, he doesn’t compare as a hitter to Manny, who may be the best righthanded hitter ever.

Juan Rincon, I mean, what in the hell do we still need to see? The only benefit for using him today was to reconfirm Cleveland’s reputation as a good-guy place to play, a supportive environment for the Rehabilitating Pitcher. This has paid dividends before (with Milwood and Howry), but if we’re going to toss in the towel, I’d rather see Meloan pitch.

Today was a sentimental, feel-good story, with Wedge saying in the PD that he’s never been prouder of any bunch of guys, etc. But this year sucked.

I’m ready for April 2009, though.

by odradek on Sep 29, 2008 1:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Also, Joe, no problem with not starting Lee. I agree with you 100 percent there. Bullington pitched well, kept the Tribe in the game, and would have given up only one run if Marte had been at third.

The Twins will be tough in 2009. They played over their heads this season, and will probably be due for a regression, but they have good young starting pitching and Gomez, Casilla, Span, Young and Kubel to supplement Morneau and Mauer.

This season for the Royals was only the second time in the past eight years they’ve had fewer than 93 losses. Wow.

by odradek on Sep 29, 2008 1:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

If you only read this site, you’d think that the Twins play over their heads every season.

Resident LGT beer kinda sewer

by mauichuck on Sep 29, 2008 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hello odradek,

Again, appreciate your thoughts.

And, no bragging intended, but as I was thinking might happen, the White Sox are out!

As Konerko himself said today (I’m paraphrasing) – “It’s hard to play playoff baseball for 2 weeks and keep it going. We ran out of gas.”

The constant pressure of having to beat the Indians, Tigers, and Twins just to get in, then face the upstart 97-win Rays who had home-field advantage – too tall of a mountain for the White Sox to climb.

And unlike what Pierzynski said, the Rays do play “real baseball.” :-)

Just my 2 cents.

The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.

by indiansfan on Oct 6, 2008 11:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Joe,

I was beginning to doubt you. Today was their fifth elimination game in eight days. It finally did catch up with them, but I was worried about the hot streaks of Konerko and Dye.

What did Aj say? I didn’t hear that.

by odradek on Oct 7, 2008 12:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hello odradek,

After the White Sox lost the first two games at TB, Pierzynski said something along these lines:

“Now we’re going home to play some ‘real baseball.’”

Granted, it could have been about the stadium (Tropicana Field) itself, but the way he said it and his past reputation make me think that at least part of that remark had to do with TB’s ability to run around the bases and cause much havoc to the White Sox pitching staff, things the White Sox weren’t able to do to the Rays in the first two games.

While the White Sox survived game 3 (mostly because Danks got off the hook in that first inning when Longoria didn’t get the ball far enough to the OF or deliver a clutch hit, keeping the score 0-0 after a half-inning instead of at least 1-0, and possibly more), the White Sox ran out of gas and their lack of fundamentals this season and living and dying by the long ball came back to bite them.

In fact, all the teams that often live and die by the long ball and have trouble manufacturing runs were out pretty quick in this postseason.

White Sox & Brewers both often lived (and died) by the long ball.
Cubs – much like in past seasons, they also largely live and die by the HR ball. When your offense goes totally cold (partly the Dodgers’ pitching, partly just not good at-bats), that’s when you exit the postseason quickly.
Angels – they used to emphasize fundamentals and speed to help manufacture runs, but partly the fact they solidified their middle-of-the-order more with Teixeira and partly the fact their “table-setters”, outside of Figgins, did virtually nothing in this series, they were mostly middle-of-the-order power/hitting and nothing else. That’s a main reason why they didn’t go nearly as far as most people thought they would.

Quite often in the postseason, the teams that emphasize and execute the fundamentals of good hitting, including utilizing speed and executing bunts, hits-and-runs, and hitting the ball where it’s pitched are the teams that usually do the best in the postseason. Teams that live and die by the HR ball often fall in the postseason, and in my opinion, that is showing true again in this postseason.

Sure, you’re bound to hit some HRs in the postseason from time to time, but teams that rely mostly on that to score their runs are not likely going to get enough pitches to hit HRs where they can score enough runs to win 11 games in the postseason, especially if their pitching doesn’t throw shutouts or near shutouts (3 runs or less), and that certainly wasn’t the case with the White Sox.

That’s why I was not overly concerned about the White Sox – they lived too much by the HR ball during the regular season to think they’d be able to hit enough HRs to win the whole series. The quality of pitching you face in virtually every postseason start is not likely to yield THAT many HRs in order for you to advance. After all, you are facing the best-of-the-best pitching from other teams on a repeated basis – you’re not often going to face junk pitchers or pitchers who have such poor command that they’re going to miss on the plate repeatedly. If you can’t manufacture runs based on what they give you, chances are, you will fall short of winning the WS, and personally, that is the main reason why the White Sox (and those other teams I mentioned above) are out.

Just my 2 cents.

The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.

by indiansfan on Oct 7, 2008 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I hear you. The White Sox seemed to swing for the fences even more than they did in the regular season. I don’t know if there is any less power in the postseason—maybe there is, I haven’t checked—but power is susceptible to random blackouts, whereas speed never slumps.

by odradek on Oct 7, 2008 10:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It would seem to stand to reason that there would tend to be less power in the postseason. The teams that make it usually have good pitching, plus rotations are shorter, so overall there are higher quality pitchers out there. As a result, I would speculate that there should be fewer “mistake” pitches that get hammered — and when home runs are hit they should more often be solo shots. On the other hand, even good pitchers allow several baserunners a game most of the time, and if you can manufacture a run here and there with steals, bunts and sac outs, you may only need one baserunner in an inning.

Haven’t looked at any numbers, but that’s what I would predict. Then again, if you depend on hitting lots of singles, that ought to be even harder than scoring on home runs, since bunching several hits together should be less likely against good pitching.

by Logodaedalus on Oct 8, 2008 1:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Another factor: the weather. I heard the Boston announcers say, “On a night in July that would have been out of here.” The White Sox offense was limited by wind, rain and cold.

by odradek on Oct 9, 2008 12:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Strangely enough, there have been slightly more home runs hit in the post season as in the regular season. From 1990 to 1997, there were 1,002 HR in 488 postseason games (2.053/game) and 83,577 in 41,015 regular season games (2.037/game).

To be fair, you’d really want to compare only the teams in the postseason against those same teams in the regular season, but I’m hoping that excluding the Pirates bats (not very many HR hit) and arms (lots of HR given up) kind of balances each other out.

by FredOx on Oct 9, 2008 9:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Okay, but a) that’s a pretty tiny difference, so we should probably say that there have been about the same number of home runs/game in the postseason and the regular season.

But b) I think what might be more important to look at than the number of home runs is the number of runs produced by the long ball. That is, I would predict that a higher percentage of postseason dingers were solo shots, and fewer were 3 and 4 run bombs, because postseason pitching could be expected to do a better job of scattering hits (and limiting walks). If that proves to be true, it would support the notion that long ball teams have a harder time in the postseason.

I could find out this information if I weren’t so lazy, but…can’t fight nature. Besides, it’s much more fun to make wild, theoretical speculations than to have evidence…

by Logodaedalus on Oct 9, 2008 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I originally said “virtually the same” but then edited myself. Here’s the postseason HR totals since 1903:

Solo 1,160 (58.4)
2-run 548 (27.6)
3-run 228 (11.5)
GS 49 (2.5)

In the 2007 regular season:

Solo 2,812 (56.7)
2-run 1,415 (28.5)
3-run 596 (12.0)
GS 134 (2.7)

by FredOx on Oct 9, 2008 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well, wouldja look at that? Staggeringly similar.

Just because I’m a nerd, I did a chi-square test trying to fit the 2007 regular season to the historical postseason results. If you assume that the postseason numbers are the “true” distribution, then you would expect deviations equal to or greater than those observed in the 2007 numbers to occur purely by chance about 11% of the time. Lower than it looks by the numbers, but not “statistically significant” by conventional 5% rules.

If you just look at two categories (solo vs. multi-run homers), then the difference should arise less than 2% of the time.

In any case, with such a large sample relative to the number of categories, it’s an extremely tiny effect even if it is real (although it is in the direction I predicted).

I’m certainly prepared to admit defeat on this one, though just out of curiosity I’d be interested to do the same test fitting the all-time postseason numbers to the all-time regular season numbers (or possibly numbers in, say, the last 50 years). At least then, you’re using the larger, more “stable” sample as the reference point. I’m not sure what direction I would predict the effect to go if you did that — I could see it going either way.

by Logodaedalus on Oct 12, 2008 7:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Actually, I realized that the right test was a test for independence of post-seasonness and homer type, since neither category can be considered a stable reference point. There’s no basis whatsoever to conclude that the two aren’t independent.

by Logodaedalus on Oct 12, 2008 11:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yankees knocking around Papelbon.

Good.

--
In Cliff we trust.

by vbc3 on Sep 28, 2008 5:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

So if it’s the list we think, we are probably getting Brantley. Is everyone in agreement?

by Roger Dorn on Sep 28, 2008 5:46 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Yes. After all this.

by odradek on Sep 28, 2008 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hello Roger,

If it’s that list, probably. However, keep in mind the conversation Jay and some others had a week or two ago about where perhaps that prospect would be of a better quality if the Brewers made the postseason.

As I recall, the idea behind it was, Shapiro wanted two top prospects, Melvin didn’t want to give up two, so the compromise would be that if the Brewers make the postseason, the Indians get to pick the prospect and have it be a higher-quality prospect because the Brewers got essentially what they wanted from the Sabathia acquisition, a postseason appearance. (Sure, they want to win the WS too, but they got the 26-year playoff drought off their backs after narrowly missing the postseason last season – their main goal when they acquired Sabathia was to get to the postseason).

Therefore, it’s not out of the question the prospect could be a higher quality than Brantley. I’m NOT saying for sure that it is, just that the possibility does exist, as I think Jay and the others who mentioned the idea made a lot of sense. Just something to keep in mind in regards to the PTBNL.

Just my 2 cents.

The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.

by indiansfan on Sep 28, 2008 8:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Frankly, I think Brantley might be the if-postseason guy, and Green the if-not guy.

by Jay on Sep 28, 2008 8:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hello Jay,

Therefore, you don’t think that it could be a better prospect now as you and a few others were contemplating a week or two ago?

Brantley would be fine – hopefully, he’ll develop. I figured a better prospect would probably be wishful thinking, though I was hopeful. Still, if he develops as expected, or even better-than-expected, I’ll be happy with Brantley. Plus, WE get to choose the prospect that WE want, not have the Brewers choose the prospect for us to take.

The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.

by indiansfan on Sep 28, 2008 8:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

No, I don’t.

I think the Hoynes story, if true, only describes the mechanism for choosing among the prospects that we already knew about, or at least among prospects in that same general range. There was no indication in that story that a second elite prospect was in play.

I’m skeptical about the “elite” guys anyway. Gamel went in the tank to a truly ridiculous degree from the day of the trade clear through the end of the season, and I’m skeptical that Alicedes could be a starting shortstop in the AL.

by Jay on Sep 29, 2008 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I actually was afraid to question Alcides because he has always been held in such high regard by everything I have read. I look at his stats though and don’t see much of a hitter. I would honestly prefer Brantley to Alcides, call me crazy

by Roger Dorn on Sep 29, 2008 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I’m with you. His 806 OPS is great for an age-21 slick glove at SS, but it’s propped up by a .380 BABIP, and meanwhile he’s walking only 31 times in 600 PA. minorleaguesplits says that after you normalize the luck, he’s left with a 751 OPS and a .348 BABIP, but with that walk rate, does anyone really think he can do anything like that in the majors? Add it all up, maybe he can make it work in NL, but I doubt he can in the AL. Looks like another Josh Barfield to me, only with great defense.

by Jay on Sep 30, 2008 12:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Those de-lucked stats do look remarkably like Barfield at age 21 in Mobile, where he had a .748 OPS and 48 BBs in 521 AB.

by FredOx on Sep 30, 2008 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hello Jay,

I too had some hesitation about Gamel being “that” good. I noticed too that he really fell off in the second-half, and unlike LaPorta (to my knowledge), he didn’t have all the distractions LaPorta had to go through, so I think that raises a bit of a red flag. Perhaps he needs good protection behind him (i.e. someone like LaPorta who will force pitchers to challenge Gamel with fastballs) in order to be well-above average as many were starting to think he would be.

I too looked at Escobar’s stats and thought – is he really that great of an offensive player? Are they really that sure he’ll be that great of a hitter at the ML level? I thought maybe I missed something, but I didn’t think he was “all that” when looking through his stats and reading the scouting reports (including the idea of his having to work on his plate discipline, as evidenced by the low level of walks throughout his career). Glad to see I wasn’t the only one who had that thought in the back of my head, as both you and Roger have reservations about him as well.

Just my 2 cents.

The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.

by indiansfan on Oct 7, 2008 12:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Gamel’s first-half numbers were all kinds of BIP-inflated.

As I’ve noted before, it’s not clear that Escobar could ever hit well enough to start for an AL contender.

by Jay on Oct 7, 2008 12:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

This just in…

Jensen Lewis is ready to relax. Goodbye to C-Town.. Hello Nashvegas!

Il faut d'abord durer.

by CU Adam on Sep 28, 2008 10:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

hahahahaha

by Roger Dorn on Sep 28, 2008 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i can’t believe the season is over

by Gradyforpresident on Sep 29, 2008 12:26 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Hello GFP,

I know – it came about sort of suddenly, if not quick, didn’t it? Maybe that was due to last year lasting well into October; this year, it just seemed like the end came all of a sudden.

Before we know it, though, we’ll be heading off to Spring Training (in Goodyear! :-)

Go Tribe!

The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.

by indiansfan on Sep 29, 2008 12:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Suddenly, if not quick …

The season was a slow torture for months but a real pleasure the last two months. Took forever to get through the torture, and then once it got good, it ended way too soon.

by Jay on Sep 29, 2008 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hello Jay,

Yes, I think you’re right on that – it was a slow go when all the injuries and inconsistency were occurring early in the season, and our chances of returning to the postseason started fading away.

When we did start to turn it around with the young talent establishing themselves, the games seemed to progress more quickly and it seemed more fun to look forward to playing more games. Then, all of a sudden, the season ended, just like that. It’s like, “What happened? When’s the next game? I want more.”

Hopefully, April 2009 will pick up where we left off. :-)

Go Tribe!

The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.

by indiansfan on Oct 7, 2008 12:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Word.

by Jay on Oct 7, 2008 12:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It’s tough. I definitely bailed a bit on the season after the series here in Colorado, when I got to meet a few LGTers. But after that I was studying and moving and starting work, catching random bits of games. It was less frustrating, but it sucked not having games to get excited about every night.

Hopefully guys get healthy and ready to go for the spring. Hopefully the Tigers score 13 runs in the first inning tomorrow and Ozzie’s head blows up. Hopefully the Red Sox get swept out of the first round. Hopefully K-Rod gives up back to back to back to back to back home runs in the 9th inning of Game 7 to the Rays. Hopefully CC pitches lights out with the Brewers, but loses 1-0 in Game 7 of the NLCS on a 10th inning Kerry Wood homerun. I don’t know who I’d root for in a Cubs/Rays Series, so I’ll just hope for a last good week of baseball before we have to wait until April.

Il faut d'abord durer.

by CU Adam on Sep 29, 2008 1:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs