Exactly. In every way measurable, A-Rod has been better than Jeter in the postseason (hitting, at least — and we all know about Jeter’s defense). But because the Yankees won multiple WS before A-Rod showed up and haven’t won since, that means A-Rod isn’t “clutch”. Of course, the fact that Jeter was also on those teams that haven’t won is ignored. I guess A-Rod’s chokeness canceled out Jeter’s clutchiness. I wish that sportswriters would actually looks at stats instead of writing what they think is true.

Why is it not falsifiable? In four postseason starts he’s pitched 21.1 innings, giving up 27 hits, 17 runs and 18 walks. To quote Feyerabend: Is that good?

Right up until the end – just like Mesa.

We may never have a better chance of winning the World Series again. You may spend the rest of your baseball fandom watching the Indians play and never see them come that close again.

rec for appropriate spite.

like +20 runs this year. At that level he could be a replacement level hitter and still be an average corner outfielder.

Well, let’s hope you’re not right about his having no trade value! I prefer Gutierrez to Garko any day.

Yeah, I’d sure feel better for 2009 if we could have August and September Garko (.895 OPS) and Gutierrez (.865), but I fear we won’t.

That’s definitely one way to remedy the problem. But I don’t see Garko going anywhere .. or more importantly, no one pushing him out of his spot.

This is the crux of the Indians problem offensively. It’s a team that can go into major funks over weeks and months. Some people forget that for a portion of 2007, it experienced a similar “funk” that we had this year. It just wasn’t as long or as dismal.

Am I the only one nervous about his 6 career homeruns (in more than 1600 plate appearances)? To be honest, for a speedy guy, he doesn’t even have many 2Bs or 3Bs (53 and 7, respectively). Going back through 2006 more than 55% of his balls in play have been ground balls. This doesn’t sound like a guy with much potential to “develop power”.

I agree that he’s got the highest ceiling, but I’m not sure the odds of reaching that ceiling are very high. I’d rather not end up with Alex Cole manning one of our corner outfield slots.

Are we talking about what WILL happen or what you (or I) would do? Because chances are, those are two very different things.

Voters will likely give Sabathia a lot of consideration, just like they will give Brandon Webb and his 22 wins a lot of consideration.

I, personally, do not believe that Sabathia contribued as much to the Brewers as Johan did for the Mets or Lincecum did for the Giants. Therefore, Sabathia would probably rank #3 (or maybe even lower) on my own personal ballot.

I’m a huge fan of the guy (not literally). I’d love to see him win it, because he’s been historically good this year. But he hasn’t contribued enough value to any individual team for me to merit giving him either the AL or NL Cy Young.

how you define NL Cy Young does nothing to change how good of a pitcher CC was this year. I believe most people only credit a pitcher with performances while on a team in the NL, starting or relieving, and combining teams (like Paul Byrd). But I agree it’s sort of lame to not give CC an award this year for being the best pitcher in the majors. The BBWAA doesn’t have an award for that, yet another mark against them.

thank you

But the point, that you use IP to help determine that, is key.

Ah. I never referred to that as being the rule. I referred to the separation between an NL Cy Young and an AL Cy Young:

I’m not saying it’s a good rule, but you only get considered for your time in the NL

Now Jay has argued this isn’t any kind of “rule,” and if so only in theory or something. But anyway, that’s not what you’re getting at.

The innings. Well one of the issues is that we were arguing for the guy with more innings last year (because he was an Indian) and this year we’re making the case for the guy with less innings (because he’s an Indian). That’s just home bias, which is why there’s no “clamoring.”

Beckett pitched 40 less innings than CC last year— partially because of an injury that forced him out of 2 starts, but I’m not sure he would have made up those 40 innings then (just a hunch). Lee has only pitched 20 less innings than Halladay this year. But what’s important is that Sabathia and Beckett had very identical years last year; Beckett sported an ERA+ of 145 and Sabathia had a 143. This year Halladay’s ERA+ is 155 but Lee’s is 175. So when you look at Beckett and Sabathia, you say that they had very similar years but CC just did more of it for his team. When you look at Halladay and Lee you can see that not only was there not as much of an innings disparity, but Lee was better in his innings.

You can argue that Lee pitched against weaker competition, but that’s not within his control. He dominated the teams he played against. But that has nothing to do what your question. The reason we don’t clamor for Halladay is because last year it was a case of “All things being equal, Sabathia pitched more innings.” You can’t say “all things being equal” this year, at least not in my opinion.

This all sounds reminiscent of the "trade Cliff Lee" talk of last year. You know, maybe some idiot GM will think he has some value, he’s old for his development, we’ve seen his apogee.

But what I really am intrigued by is Victor at third, Asdrubal at short and Peralta at second, leaving Garko at first and Shoppach to catch. That line-up just might work. Keep Carroll as a utility and maybe bring Santana up after June/July. We’re gonna need Garko in the future. I wouldn’t trade him just yet.

Yes but the Winner’s Curse or whatever you want to call it is in play for free agents.

Um, performance while pitching for the Indians doesn’t get special weight in awards balloting.

Compared with Cliff, CC pitched an extra month of starts. So he had one bad month? His overall rates absorb it, and he still stacks up with Cliff.

I discount Brad Lidge because saves are a stupid stat no matter how good he was at converting opportunities into completed stupid stats, and his peripherals aren’t nearly good enough to make up for throwing less than 70 innings (35 BB, 1.226 WHIP).