Buffalo Bisons

by APV on Sep 4, 2008 9:55 PM EDT Comment 40 comments

So long, Buffalo. I'm sure our prospects will miss their drives back and forth on I-90. Here are some notes on Buffalo's 5th place, 66-77 season. If you are a prospect-fiend, Buffalo is in many ways the boringest of Cleveland's minor league franchises because it has the highest percentage of washed up retreads who are simply there for emergency big league depth. Guys we can call up for a 2-week stint and now worry about losing when we outright them off the active roster. But nevertheless....

Asdrubal Cabrera turned his season around with a positive stint in Buffalo (.326/.375/.475). As a warning, though, he did so by getting pretty luck on balls in play (.375) and not walking (5.2%)
As LGT's official Trevor Crowe apologist (n.b. Shapiro plays that role for the organization), I have to point out he put up a respectable .834 OPS in Buffalo after putting up a .887 OPS in Akron. His Ks went up a lot, but so did his power. Also had what are likely unsustainable BABIPs (+.350)
I'd like to say something good about Jordan Brown's .281/.337/.417 season...he hit right-handers OK (.858 OPS) and got sort of unlucky against lefties (.252 BABIP)? On the offensive side of things, might have been the prospect to hurt himself the most this season in the Indians system.
Michael Aubrey stayed pretty healthy and (finally) made his MLB debut. But his power isn't there (only 38 XBHs in 97 games).
Brad Snyder, Jason Cooper, Ryan Mulhern and Jeff Harris can probably direct you to great things to do if you visit Buffalo.
Josh Barfield. Josh Barfield. Relative to his 2007 season in Cleveland, his BB% went from catastrophic (3.2) to merely terrible (4.7). His power went from non-existant (.081) to slightly visible (.118). His K% went from uncomfortably high for a player of his skill set (20.3) to awkwardly high (18.0) for a player of his skill set. And of course he went from the majors to AAA.
I'm open to anyone's explanation of the difference between Wyatt Toregas's numbers in Akron and Buffalo.
Scott Lewis took advantage of his 4 Buffalo starts (21K, 4BB, 24IP)
David Huff might be a stud. His final line for the entire season is 146.1IP, 112H, 29BB,143K, and a 2.52ERA. And the better part of those numbers were in Buffalo.
Tom Mastny remains the Lucy-football-Charlie Brown component to Cleveland's bullpen. 43Ks, 12BBs and only 1 HR in 35 Buffalo innings.
Jeff Stevens put up good raw numbers again (29.2IP, 44K, 16BB), but for some reason, maybe the olympics, I don't feel nearly as good about them as I did last year
If John Halama ever pitches in a Cleveland Indians uniform I'm going to vomit into a funnel and pour it into my ear (ditto for Jeff Weaver)
Bryan Bullington, one of our many 1st round relcamation projects, put up decent periperphals (particularly good control), but got hit to the tune of a .300 BAA. Maybe if he can reclaim just a little bit of movement or deception he's got a chance.

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About Stevens … I think he’s just had a couple of bad games to give him a crooked ERA. The K rate is outstanding at 12.5 K/9 this year and batters just can’t seem to hit him. He has blown a few saves and took a few losses late in games, but the stuff’s certainly there for him to become a closer. If he doesn’t have the right mentality (I don’t put much stock in that), then he’ll atleast be a very solid setup man. Right now though, there’s no reason why he shouldn’t be in the majors next year.

btw … a bullpen of Stevens, Perez, Meloan, Lewis, Sipp and Betancourt doesn’t seem too bad.

by JP_Frost on Sep 4, 2008 10:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

A few seasons ago, we thought a bullpen with Fernando Cabrera didn’t look bad, either. Point being, as this year shows, you can’t count on three pitchers—and maybe Lewis—to be big-league ready, and to improve steadily.

by odradek on Sep 4, 2008 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

Look, I want to believe this kind of thing. However, I really think guys who are exclusively relievers need to be very, very good to be counted on in any substantial way and Stevens, Sipp and Meloan simply aren’t that good. They’re all sort of good in very different ways but they don’t approach the kind of level where I think any of them can be counted on coming out of spring training.

I think the odds are probably that one of them is a major contributor next year.

by afh4 on Sep 4, 2008 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hello Andrew,

I agree that those three should not be thrust into being on the Indians’ bullpen to start 2009 – I think all three, and especially Sipp with the time he missed from TJ, should start next season in AAA and work their way into the ML bullpen over the course of the first half of next season.

I think all three can be factors, even main contributors, to the Indians’ bullpen in the future – even as early as early to mid-2010, but I agree that we should not thrust them into starting the 2009 season at the ML level. They would have to have a comparable spring training to what Adam Miller did in 2007 (flat-out dominate) to make me even consider it, and even then, I’d probably still lean more toward the cautious side and have them begin the season in AAA unless all the other options we expect to fill out the bullpen falter considerably.

Instead, I’d hope that Mastny (might be a false hope, but what more does he have to prove in AAA – it’s his time to either swim or sink) and Rundles (might as well find out about him) and even Bullington (who looked better in the bullpen than in the rotation), as well as a FA or trade acquisition or two, could mix in with guys like Perez, Lewis, Betancourt, Kobayashi (presuming he’s still here), etc. to be our initial 2009 bullpen.

Just my 2 cents – no offense.

The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.

by indiansfan on Sep 5, 2008 2:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I have to say I’m a lot higher on Meloan than you are. Just looking at his minor league numbers, excluding this year (which I think is fair, because he didn’t relieve in Vegas and spent the first 12 appearances in Buffalo adjusting to the bullpen): Between Rookie ball and AAA, his age 20-22 seasons, he struck out 236 batters and walked 61 in 157 innings, giving up 14 HRs in the process. And he had all the shiny ERA and WHIPs to go with it. I would be genuinely disappointed if Meloan doesn’t end up having a good career in the majors starting next year. I understand what you’re saying, that if a guy is only relieving in the minors he needs to swing the Hammer of God if we’re going to count on him. I’m still willing to bet he’ll do fine.

That’s not to say he should join the team out of the gate. I think it depends on what he shows the club in ST and how badly we need him. I’m fine with letting him get back into reliever mode in Columbus if he needs it.

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on Sep 5, 2008 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hello Nick,

I think Meloan is also very good and put up those eye-popping numbers that Andrew seems to be referring to. The fact he struggled in a starting role recently has put a bit of a damper on his ability.

Before Sipp got hurt, his numbers were pretty eye-popping as well, though the TJ surgery put a bit of a damper on it.

And, as mentioned elsewhere, Stevens’ numbers were pretty eye-popping in their own right, but the fact he didn’t fare well in the Olympics has put a bit of a damper on them.

Bottom line: I think all three can be major contributors to the bullpen in the future, based on their overall track records, but it’s probably better to be cautious and give them the extra time in AAA, just to make sure they’ll all the way back from injury or ineffectiveness.

Just my 2 cents.

The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.

by indiansfan on Sep 5, 2008 7:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don’t see what’s so complicated about this. I’m not going to give a guy credit for year old numbers when there are current reliever numbers that don’t match up. He hasn’t been as good since going back to the ‘pen. And he’s not young.

by afh4 on Sep 5, 2008 8:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

He put up absurd strikeout numbers last year though, not even just good numbers. Playing at the same level as last year something had changed if you were to look at his numbers. If you look at the external factors at play though, the only thing you would notice is that he moved into a starting role instead of a relievers role. I remain optimistic and don’t expect a player to become dominant again after switching roles and systems like he did mid-season. This is not science as you want to make it, and given his dominant last season, I think there is no shame in thinking he has serious potential as a high leverage reliever.

by Roger Dorn on Sep 7, 2008 12:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Andrew,

Granted, that’s true, but at the same time, he hasn’t been back to relieving for even a full season. Transitioning from a starter to reliever and vice-versa is likely not as easy as putting on a pair of shoes or getting out of bed in the morning. It’s likely a little more complicated than that. Let’s see if he finds his dominant self again by starting off the 2009 season from ST as a reliever, not as a starter.

And while being age 23 in 2008 isn’t super-young for AAA, it’s certainly not old by any means. His age 24 season is in 2009 – that’s still more on the “young” side than “old” side. Again, let’s wait until next season before we discount him being a dominant reliever prospect again – his track record would suggest he’s more likely to be dominant out of the bullpen again than not.

Just my 2 cents.

The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.

by indiansfan on Sep 7, 2008 12:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hello JP_Frost,

I’m not that worried about Stevens either – we have to keep in mind that the Olympics were a hectic time of year, with limited scouting reports and arguably more adrenaline running through your veins than even playing at AAA, being that you only have a very limited number of games and you’re playing for your country with teammates you’re not that familiar and against opponents you’re even less familiar with.

In other words, I wouldn’t put much stock in what he did in the Olympics – that’s arguably a much different world than AAA baseball, and even ML baseball. I’d concentrate more on what’s he done in his Minor League career to this point, and I think most would agree that he’s done very well, probably better than most of us expected when we acquired him from Cincinnati for “you know who.”

As JP also mentioned, he did have a couple of AAA games that distorted that ERA a bit; outside of the BB rate being a bit higher than one would like, the H/IP and K/IP are very strong, so his chances of being an effective bullpen contributor in the not-too-distant future seem pretty good to me, with likely the normal growing pains you’d expect, just as we’ve seen at times with Perez and Lewis.

Just my 2 cents.

The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.

by indiansfan on Sep 5, 2008 3:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The main difference between the Olympics and the majors is that the opposing batters aren’t as good.

Tiny sample, but let’s not sugarcoat this, it was awful.

Not “one bad game” awful, but Carmona-as-closer awful.

by Jay on Sep 5, 2008 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

In an effort to reduce air pollution within Beijing and to lower the Olympics carbon footprint, Chinese officials prevented Jeff Stevens from “bringing the heat” to the games

by APV on Sep 5, 2008 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

In an effort to reduce air pollution within Beijing and to lower the Olympics carbon footprint, Chinese officials prevented Jeff Stevens from “bringing the heat” to the games

by APV on Sep 5, 2008 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

They did it twice!!

by peter m on Sep 5, 2008 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hello Jay,

I understand your point, but at the same time, the lack of scouting reports and increased adrenaline flow likely didn’t help – it’s not like he was the only US pitcher who struggled over there. And as you said, tiny sample size – I wouldn’t worry that much about it. I’d rather he dominate the competition he’ll regularly face than guys who he may never even see again.

As for “Carmona-as-closer awful”, let’s hope Stevens can bounce back like Carmona did, though likely to be in the bullpen rather than in the rotation.

Just my 2 cents.

The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.

by indiansfan on Sep 5, 2008 7:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

If he can’t control his adrenaline on the fourth try, how’s he going to do in the majors?

Stevens doesn’t have Carmona’s talent, track record or youth. It was the same kind of awful, but not coming from the same caliber of pitcher.

by Jay on Sep 6, 2008 7:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Again, Jay, I don’t think the Olympics and ML baseball are that similar in terms of experience – you’re facing hitters, even if they’re worse, a few times over a 7-10 day period, with limited scouting reports, and you’re playing for your country on an International stage.

That’s considerably different than playing ML or Minor League baseball for a specific team, facing players you have considerably more scouting data on and see much more often.

No offense, but Matt LaPorta didn’t have a particularly great Olympics either – does that mean LaPorta is doomed to fail in the Majors as well? Granted, LaPorta is a little younger than Stevens, but again, it’s a SSS – I really don’t think you can read THAT much into it.

Just my 2 cents.

The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.

by indiansfan on Sep 7, 2008 12:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

If you vomit into a funnel you’re going to have to block the end while getting it to your ear, thus getting vomit on your finger tip.

Instead, vomit into a bucket and then have someone pour it into an ear funnel for you.

David Huff made Buffalo 1000x more interesting than Lake County. Lake County was the worst this year.

My explanation for Wyatt Toregas numbers is Chris Giminez. Whatever that means.

by afh4 on Sep 4, 2008 11:31 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Hello APV,

Great job as usual.

Regarding Toregas, I think he just needs more time to adapt at AAA. Granted, I’m not expecting him to put up his second-time AA numbers at AAA (though it’d be nice), but he really didn’t get a tremendous amount of time to adapt to AAA.

I’d like to see him return to AAA and see if he can improve, much like he did at AA, though probably not to the same extent. But, even if he only hits .250-.280 at the AAA level, with his defense, that would at least be good enough to back-up Shoppach (provided Victor plays at 1B, which is still to be determined).

Just my 2 cents.

The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.

by indiansfan on Sep 5, 2008 3:00 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I love that David Huff line.

The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay

by Buckeye Brad on Sep 5, 2008 12:57 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Also, 51% of his balls in play were grounders.

by Peter Bendix on Sep 5, 2008 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Did anyone else see this, that the Brewers might be the ones to pick the PTBNL in the CC deal? That seems crazy, to base such an important decision on whether another team makes the playoffs…

http://www.cleveland.com/tribe/index.ssf/2008/09/indians_insider_tribe_may_be_a.html

by kwoog on Sep 6, 2008 1:50 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

this is also a comment in the lucroy fanshot — maybe it should be a separate fanshot?

by macasson on Sep 6, 2008 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not sure what this has to do with a review of the Bisons’ season.

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on Sep 6, 2008 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Nothing, but I respectfully didn’t want to create a whole new fanshot if it had been referenced somewhere else already. Hence the “did anyone else see this.”

On this site people just throw new news things on threads all the time, w/ similar caveats. As a regular you know this.

by kwoog on Sep 6, 2008 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Some people suffer from FanShot shyness.

Creating a whole new FanShot is almost always a good thing, unless it duplicates an existing FanShot. If it’s a significant story, you want it in a FanShot, not just deep within a thread.

by Jay on Sep 8, 2008 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

HAHA — I love this comment.

Theres a twist we didn’t know about. Course with Shapiro’s talent evaluation history, whether the Tribe gets to pick or the Brewers send the player, it will probably be the same player.

Yeah, Shapiro ALWAYS gets screwed over in trades. Remember that time he gave up Einar Diaz, a promising young catcher, along with another quality starting picher, and all we got back was some DH. Or the time he gave up Eduardo Perez for Asdrubal Cabrera. Cabrera can’t hit this year and Perez is, like, totally awesome on Baseball Tonight. We could use him on STO right now!

The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay

by Buckeye Brad on Sep 6, 2008 9:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I saw that, too.

Comments like that really give me perspective on the whole cleveland.com thing. What they tell me is that the obsessive negativists don’t just have a critical view of the Indians, they are so single-minded that they can’t even recognize the areas where Shapiro obviously, obviously has a great track record, i.e., getting quality prospects in trades.

They tell me, basically, that people like that just need to be ignored completely.

by Jay on Sep 8, 2008 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Don’t forget the Colon trade. Colon won a Cy Young! How many awards has Sizemore won? And Lee was sent to the minors last year!! Shapiro sucks. Also, Dolan is cheap!

by FredOx on Sep 8, 2008 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Fact: Sizemore has 0 wins as an Indian

Disgraceful…

by APV on Sep 8, 2008 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Fact: Sizemore’s back is not big enough to carry a team. Colon had room enough for the entire division.

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on Sep 8, 2008 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Who the bleep cares what people on cleveland.com think and write?

by ClarkM on Sep 8, 2008 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It’s a great place to go for entertainment.

by Voltaire on Sep 8, 2008 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I’m with you on that one. Tonight I read this line: “Dolan needs chumps like you.”

by odradek on Sep 8, 2008 11:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I read the comments on ESPN, too, and for the same reason. Go read the story about Brady and watch the Pats fans try to talk themselves into believing their college backup, NFL backup quarterback is the Second Coming, or that Belichick (who has a losing record when his starter is Someone Other Than Tom Brady) can win the next 15 games all by himself.

by FredOx on Sep 9, 2008 8:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs