Bo Still Knows
Bo was maybe the most amazing athlete I've ever seen. No, not an Indian ... but WOW! The injury that ended his pro football career was awful ... and yet he still played several more years of baseball.
Nice to see how well he's doing today. Very inspiring guy.
about 1 year ago
rden
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Yeah, when most of us are crotchety old geezers, we’re going to talk about how great Bo Jackson was.
by Ryan on Jan 26, 2009 4:00 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Especially in Tecmo Bowl.
Il faut d'abord durer.
by CU Adam on Jan 26, 2009 4:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
More seriously, Bo was awesome. I need to now go look up the video of him running across the outfield wall for KC.
by APV on Jan 26, 2009 4:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
A.) He owns a bank- that’s pretty cool.
B.) Love this quote, “[Playing two pro sports] came easy from the standpoint that God blessed me with speed like a spooked deer,” he notes. “He blessed me with an arm as if somebody tied a rifle to my shoulder and blessed me with great hand-eye coordination.”
C.) He could have been a HOF’er, no?
by Ryan Kelsey on Jan 26, 2009 9:32 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Bo was a spectacular baseball player, as in he did things that qualified as spectacles, but he wasn’t all that good. Obviously, there’s some argument that if he had focused on baseball he would’ve been better but the facts are that Bo was not anywhere near on his way to a HOF career when injuries cut him down. His baseball statistics are decidedly ‘meh.’ Similar batters include Craig Wilson, Craig Monroe, and Russ Branyan. Through age-25, Greg Vaughn.
He would’ve been a football HOF’er, no doubt.
by afh4 on Jan 26, 2009 9:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If he’s not already a football HOF’er. I have no idea.
by afh4 on Jan 26, 2009 9:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
In saying he “could have been” a HOF’er, I did mean if focused on baseball, implying that he would have been better. First, he would have had more games played and better counting stats. Also, more time and energy to focus on, you know, hitting a baseball instead of outrunning DBs. Is baseball cube correct- did he really only play one minor league season? I don’t think he got anywhere near his potential were it not for football.
But I do think its a bit unfair to say that his stats that he did put up were just “meh”. In his only season with over 500 ABs he put up a nice 124 OPS+, driven by SLG, but still very very good. He other two near full years were 108 and 142. If he put 12-15 seasons like that together, with his good SB numbers, you are talking at least that almost-HOF level of Rice, Dawson, Parker, etc. range, no?
by Ryan Kelsey on Jan 26, 2009 11:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t really think of those guys as hall of famers.
Jackson had two good years out of a 700 game career. I mean, if you want to say he could’ve been a hall of famer in a scenario that involves all kinds of weird contingencies (focusing on baseball, reaching some full potential), then I can’t really argue that.
But there’s really not a lot of evidence. A lot of guys are absurd athletes and have weird little careers in the majors.
He got injured in 1991, at 28. From 1986 to 1990 he’d already lost too much prime of his career as a baseball player to, well, mostly average play for a corner OF to ever be thought of as a hall of famer. The only way you can say that he was a potential HOF’r is if you don’t just give him credit for time after the injury but if you go back and give him better stats than he actually had in some effort to reflect a true talent level.
I’m not arguing his talent level wasn’t that high but it’s a pretty difficult game to play. He’s not exactly at the very top of the wasted baseball talents list-he’s in line behind Herb Score, a whole bunch of VFWs, a whole lot of minorities, Dwight Gooden, and a number of stories similar to Jackson-huge talent, deferred.
To put a finer point on it, not focusing on baseball and as a result not being all that good at it is a failing as a baseball player when it comes to a HOF discussion.
by afh4 on Jan 27, 2009 12:04 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ok, so there are a couple issues here that I sorta mashed together.
First, the numbers that Bo did put up. I was responding to your post that his numbers were “meh”. I think they are a little better than that. Seasons with 30+ homers and OPS+’s in the 120-140 range are damn good. In supporting that such a season is a good one, without explaining myself, was comparing Bo’s few full seasons with the average seasons of guys like Jim Rice and Andre Dawson. Regardless of what you think of them in relation to the HOF, they are very good hitters.
Second, my original comment was that Bo could have been a HOF. I get that circumstance and wasted talent and simply deciding to do other things (football, and then retire early to watch the outdoor channel) does defeat your HOF chances and I’ll give you that he is behind the Herb Scores, the Negro leaguers, etc. when it comes to that. I simply think that Jackson is in that rare category of person that had the raw talent to become a HOF. Of course one needs a lot of other things besides talent to actually end up in the Hall. He needs coaching, dedication, health and luck. But exceptional talent is a primary characteristic for a HOFer. And I believe that Bo had it. If he could put up 3 darned good seasons with no minor league background and while playing NFL football (at the most physically demanding position in sports, in my opinon), I would have loved to see him if he would have had those other HOF characteristics and circumstances. Of course this is a lot of what ifs and conjecture. But its Bo Jackson. Isn’t that how the conversation is supposed to go? Plus its January on a baseball blog.
by Ryan Kelsey on Jan 27, 2009 1:00 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I am actually not convinced that talent is the limiting factor to being a HOF. That seems sort of intuitive but I’m not sure it’s empirically true. We can’t ever know how many people had the talent to be HOF level players; we can’t even tell which current players have that sort of talent.
For all we know, the talent is relatively prevalent, especially among major leaguers. It’s the dedication that isn’t or the right coaching at the right age or whatever.
Since 1985 there have been 200 seasons put up by corner outfielders with OPS+ over 140. That list includes seasons by guys like Rich Aurilla.
Is it a good season? Yeah. But in the context of a career, two seasons with an OPS+ over 120 from a corner OF before the age of 28 aren’t exactly staggering. For context, Jim Rice OPS+ over 120 every year from age 22 to age 27.
Also, the minor leagues thing doesn’t really impress me at all. Jackson spent a whole season in the minors at age 23, then was bad/mediocre in the majors at 24 and 25. He was rushed, certainly, but it’s not like his raw talent overwhelmed being rushed. He played like a 24 year old who should’ve been in the minors.
I get that you’re not saying he was one of those guys, just that he could’ve been. And I guess my response is “How do we know?” and, even if that’s true, “So what?” I think there’s an equally solid argument to make that Richie Sexson, or maybe as an even better example Russ Branyan, could’ve put up this kind of career if he’d just gotten better coaching or had a better ability or had more of an ability to make adjustments or any myriad of other things. Bo’s talent is more easily identifiable because we saw it in football and because it very well defines the word “athlete” for us but Branyan and Sexson’s power also enter into rarefied talent categories-especially Branyan’s.
To try to refine it again, Bo really didn’t do anything in baseball statistically to make it seem like he was on a whole other plain. He did lots of things in football. But not in baseball. If we’re going to try to establish “talent tiers” for an imaginary HOF (which is sort of an interesting idea) Bo doesn’t sniff the upper ones.
The guy you are talking about is Josh Hamilton.
by afh4 on Jan 27, 2009 9:19 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
As I’m sure you know, Hamilton’s 2008 was a 136 OPS+. Jackson’s best was 142 (and while Hamilton did play more CF, I’d say Jackson had more non-hitting contributions when you add in his SBs). The thing is, Hamilton’s 32 HRs in 2008 was 8th in the league, while Jackson’s 32 HRs in 1989 in was 4th.
He is Hamilton if Hamilton was badly and incredibly hurt right now, was serviceable for 4 more years as a backup and then quit.
Its a close comp, but it might be one that comes around every 25 years (partially because of talent, but also because the circumstances are just rare).
I think Sexson and Branyan are the exact opposite types of players. They are guys that being, as full time baseball players their entire lives and as pretty healthy guys their entire careers, managed, with full training of major and minor league teams were able to put up nice little careers as major leaguers. Bo put up similar numbers while playing running back in the NFL in the off season in his only years as a full time player. He didn’t get more ABs precisely because some of his teams didn’t want to risk relying on him too much. Branyan didn’t get ABs, even his prime, because he wasn’t very good.
by Ryan Kelsey on Jan 27, 2009 10:47 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
They are guys that being, as full time baseball players their entire lives and as pretty healthy guys their entire careers, managed, with full training of major and minor league teams were able to put up nice little careers as major leaguers.
Sorry, worst sentance ever.
by Ryan Kelsey on Jan 27, 2009 10:48 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That ranks up there even among sentences….
by Logodaedalus on Jan 27, 2009 12:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Do you know what a vowel is? Then you’re fine.
by Logodaedalus on Jan 27, 2009 7:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I dunno. I think there’s a bias towards athleticism as the incredible talent. What somebody like Branyan had and somehow squandered might be just as incredible.
My point is that stumbling blocks in a career, whether they be failing to make adjustments or injury or playing football, aren’t worth quibbling over.
Hamilton’s bat to ball ability is pretty clearly superior to Jackson’s. Jackson is not similar to Hamilton or Rice in that he didn’t hit for average. Now, hitting for average isn’t a great thing all by itself but it does indicate a skill that will age relatively well. If Jackson hadn’t gotten hurt I don’t think he was on a Rice path; I think he was probably on a Dave Kingman path. That’s not a bad thing but it’s not exactly inner circle.
by afh4 on Jan 27, 2009 11:52 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
A.) He owns a bank- that’s pretty cool.
I never thought banking was particularly “cool,” and after the dreadful ’08 the financial sector foisted upon us, I thought bankers would be held in even lower regard.
Guess not.
by JulioBernazard on Jan 27, 2009 2:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Depends on what kind of bank and what kind of securities they deal in.
Those that packaged sub-prime mortgages took on a terrible risk and it bit them in the rear (and helped bite us collectively in the rear, too.)
Some banks don’t deal with mortgage investments.
Also, I’m not sure the financial sector ‘foisted’ anything upon us. It was a bubbling cauldron of bad ideas that took over a decade to boil over. Congress’ lack of proper oversight did not help either.
Signature to be named later.
by emd2k3 on Jan 27, 2009 2:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Without getting into the political aspects, the fact is that local banks and even many regional banks did not tend to engage in the kinds of risky lending practices that led us into this mess. So there is no reason to hold “bankers” in any lower regard as a rule.
by Jay on Jan 27, 2009 3:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Nor is there a reason to hold every employee at a large bank in low regard
by Roger Dorn on Jan 27, 2009 3:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That too, but the discussion was in reference to an owner.
by Jay on Jan 27, 2009 8:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
as i understand it, it was not major investment banks, but rather state-licensed non-depository mortgage banks that actually engaged in the risky lending practices. issuers then packaged and securitized them, credit agencies gave them good ratings, and then the major investment banks bought them, which was the problem. i think we are finding, and will continue to find, that regional banks carry more of these securities on (or rather, slightly off) their balance sheets than previously expected. retail and local commercial banks don’t really have the same use for MBSs and CDOs that the major houses do, i don’t think it’s because they’re smarter or more ethical.
by emil minty on Jan 27, 2009 8:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I never thought banking was particularly "cool," and after the dreadful ’08 the financial sector foisted upon us, I thought bankers would be held in even lower regard.
What Jay and emd2k3 said.
Plus, its not that banking is cool its just cool that Bo Jackson, former MLBer and NFLer owns a bank.
by Ryan Kelsey on Jan 27, 2009 5:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I believe Nolan Ryan does, too. I don’t find it particularly exciting/interesting.
by JulioBernazard on Jan 28, 2009 10:32 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
So does A-Rod. It’s called his checking account.
The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay
by Buckeye Brad on Jan 28, 2009 4:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He is the biggest “What If…” of my lifetime. And I don’t see him getting topped by anyone.
by Chief WaDrew on Jan 27, 2009 2:52 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I am the biggest “what if” of my lifetime.
Signature to be named later.
by emd2k3 on Jan 27, 2009 2:23 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
This
Burn on, big river, burn on...
by Turkmenbashi on Jan 27, 2009 5:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
My name is Eric Davis. And when the other Eric Davis was a rookie with the Reds, I met him at Spring Training. He was very softspoken.
I suppose this would be more interesting if my name were Karballos Rippleswilski and I met another Karballos Rippleswilski.
Signature to be named later.
by emd2k3 on Jan 27, 2009 10:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think I went to elementary school with one Karballos Rippleswilski.
/lie
by Logodaedalus on Jan 27, 2009 10:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, I just thought you meant you were someone intelligent who has failed to live up to his potential thus far and don’t see any prospects for doing so in the immediate future.
Because that’s what I meant.
Burn on, big river, burn on...
by Turkmenbashi on Jan 28, 2009 7:49 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, I meant that too.
Signature to be named later.
by emd2k3 on Jan 28, 2009 9:43 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
solid copy
Anti-Ben Fran before it was cool.
by Gradyforpresident on Jan 28, 2009 3:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Davis had a string of poor circumstances that plagued his entire career. Bo we can go to a single moment in time.
by Chief WaDrew on Jan 27, 2009 4:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i’m actually thinking gooden and strawberry for different “if’s” of course with regards to baseball.
by Brick. on Jan 27, 2009 4:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What if they hadn’t been so in love with the nose candy?
by Chief WaDrew on Jan 27, 2009 4:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I went to a game in Royals Stadium in 1987. It was the first game after the All-Star break, during which Bo had announced that he was going to play football “as a hobby.” This obviously didn’t sit too well with the KC partisans, especially considering his NFL team was going to be the arch-rival Raiders.
When Bo came up to bat the first time he was greeted with a mixture of cheers and boos. Later in the game, he made a spectacular diving catch in LF. From that point on, it was nothing but rousing ovations.
by SuddenSam on Jan 27, 2009 12:10 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
It’s hard to separate Bo from his persona. If he hadn’t played football as well (just like Deion) and he hadn’t been such a charming dude in his Nike commercials, would we be talking about him? Without looking at the numbers, I think Dave Parker was a lot better player. Kevin Mitchell was a better player, to my memory.
by odradek on Jan 27, 2009 2:05 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Dave Parker never destroyed Brian Bosworth on National TV.
Signature to be named later.
by emd2k3 on Jan 27, 2009 2:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Dave Parker also, to my recollection, never broke a bat over his knee.
Signature to be named later.
by emd2k3 on Jan 27, 2009 2:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Dave Parker never allegedly shot a bear and drug it back to the camping area.
by Chief WaDrew on Jan 27, 2009 4:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
All I heard was Dave Parker and Drug.
Signature to be named later.
by emd2k3 on Jan 27, 2009 10:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I can’t find a video still, but do I need to remind you that he ran horizontally across an outfield wall? I know these days that kind of thing is common in a certain sub-section of urban street artists, but Bo didn’t plan on doing it or practice it. He was just running really fast towards the wall and didn’t want to stop, so he spontaneously decided to run horizontally across the wall. Awesome.
by APV on Jan 27, 2009 2:45 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Bo Jackson, Parkour Pioneer.
Signature to be named later.
by emd2k3 on Jan 27, 2009 10:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
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