Indians sign Carl Pavano
UPDATED: As reported by Jerry Crasnick for ESPN.com, the Indians are a "strong candidate" to sign have signed Carl Pavano, who might be called a "recovering jackass" in the parlance of our time, to a one-year deal for an undisclosed sum, presumed to be less than $161 million.
At the end of the season, Shapiro listed the club's main needs going into 2009 as an infielder, a closer, and a number-three starter, roughly in that order. Having already acquired one of the very best infielders and one of the very best closers available, the Indians have basically spent down the bulk of their payroll flexibility for 2009, so it's been fairly clear for some time that the Indians would have to go bargain-hunting for a starter.
Crasnick's report characterizes the potential deal as similar to the famously well-structured and happy-ending Kevin MIllwood deal in 2005, only perhaps a bit smaller in terms of dollars. Pavano would joins Anthony Reyes as the two serious candidates for the last three rotation spots who don't have minor league options remaining. Aaron Laffey, Jeremy Sowers, Scott Lewis, Zach Jackson and David Huff will also be competing for those spots, but any or all of those five can be stashed in Triple-A and called up as needed.
Those seven pitchers combined for 69 starts in the majors last season, plus 66 starts in the minors and a smattering of relief innings.
about 3 years ago
Jay
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Yeah. And that’s with Adam Miller moving to the bullpen.
by Jay on Jan 6, 2009 2:06 PM EST up reply actions
What are you talking about? It’s the International League! Unless MLB becomes the Intergalactic League I don’t think it gets bigger than that.
by APV on Jan 6, 2009 8:16 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Not sure where I’m going with this, but in 2004 Shapiro was hot-on-the-heels of Pavano and Clement (remember how this dominated our discussions?) and wound up with Millwood, whose contract turned out to be infinitely better than the terms for Clement and Pavano.
A quick search of LGT turned up this gem, from Ryan in Nov 2005, revisiting the decisions of 2004 and showing how:
free agent pitchers are at best a crapshoot, and at worst, a spin at the roulette wheel.
(whoops, posted before i finished. premature posting problem.)
anyway, the indians’ front office clearly has certain philosophies and beliefs and also seem to learn from their past experiences. investing multiple years and tens of millions into free agent pitchers is something the indians, wisely, see as too risky for their market. makes me wonder just how serious they were about signing cc … though of course they did sign westbrook … who is now injured ….
I hope you realize that this site did not exist in 2004.
My recollection is that we were never (reportedly) in on Pavano. In addition to Clement, we went hard after Jon Lieber, who signed with the Phillies but had gushing things to say about the Indians organization, not unlike Trevor Hoffman a year later. Lieber worked out decently for the Phillies, but nobody signed that year worked out better than MIllwood-then-Byrd did for us.
by Jay on Jan 6, 2009 2:29 PM EST up reply actions
you’d hope i’d realize that, but my memory is quite poor … no wonder i couldn’t find anything from 2004 about pavano on the site! could it have been in the days leading to ST 2005? i digress …
and, yes, that’s the other interesting angle: how shapiro seems to build relationships/create goodwill with some of the athletes, even if they don’t sign with cleveland. FO intangibles?
Nice find on that old piece. Ryan has always been a sucker for WARP.
by Jay on Jan 6, 2009 2:31 PM EST up reply actions
If we spend the money on Pavano, how will we be able to afford Adam Dunn!?!?!?!
Il faut d'abord durer.
by CU Adam on Jan 6, 2009 2:21 PM EST reply actions 4 recs
Obligatory rec.
I don’t like it, but it’s obligatory and all.
by Jay on Jan 6, 2009 2:26 PM EST up reply actions
Why?
The evidence that he was dogging it was always just anecdotal. It looked bad, but it wasn’t necessarily what it looked like.
Has he had other clubhouse issues?
by Jay on Jan 6, 2009 2:40 PM EST up reply actions
Got in a car crash going 120 MPH, cracked a few ribs, lied to his teammates and management about it for 11 days… I just can’t see Shap being interested in that kinda noise.
by JulioBernazard on Jan 6, 2009 2:52 PM EST up reply actions
This naplesnews.com link seems to confirm what I vaguely remember from his Marlins days. He was considered a high character guy until he came to the Yankees. This reinforces my opinion of New York fans and media. Anyone have any other insight into Pavano’s attitude?
Pavano, however, will trade fame for fortune any day.
Crazy ominous quote there.
by JulioBernazard on Jan 7, 2009 2:20 PM EST up reply actions
It just hit me.
Carl Pavano goes 6 2/3, giving up 2 runs on 6 hits, in Game 6 in Yankee Stadium to clinch the ALCS, out-dueling CC Sabathia, whom the Yankees started on short rest.
by NickFantana on Jan 6, 2009 2:43 PM EST reply actions 5 recs
You’re calling the heroic how-is-our-number-4-starter-doing-it performance?
Paul Byrd spoiled you.
by Jay on Jan 6, 2009 2:54 PM EST up reply actions
On that rotation, he’d be our number 2, right? We don’t start guys on short rest, so Game 6 is the second start for the #2 guy.
So I guess I’m inadvertently calling the terrible-injury-to-Carmona-or-Lee-followed-by-Pavano’s-inevitable-ascent scenario.
What a weird signing that would be. I really need to look at his numbers, but really there are no numbers to look at. It’s all a crapshoot.
What are we hoping for here? 120 innings? 90? Or do we think he can actually go a full year?
Steel Nick
From the Fangraphs Profile, posted by mrich on the other thread:
… we turn to Marcels. The monkey has Pavano pitching 78 innings with a 4.60 FIP. That is an optimistic projection and one not completely based in reality, considering Pavano hasn’t thrown that many innings combined since 2006 … if Pavano does reach such a point he’ll be worth roughly a win over a replacement level starter, and if he can give a team 100 innings around his career FIP (4.21), he’ll be a worthwhile pick-up out of the junkyard.
Pavano’s velocity also went from low 90’s to high 80’s (90 to 88), which might explain some of his problems in New York.
While that normally would be discouraging, Pavano is just getting back from TJ surgey. There’s probably a decent chance his velocity is back up.
by world dictator on Jan 6, 2009 6:10 PM EST up reply actions
With him and Westbrook, we could have the all TJ surgery recovery team.
"Lotta heart in Cleveland." - Ian Hunter
by Denver Tribe Fan on Jan 6, 2009 9:12 PM EST up reply actions
It’s believed that Pavano is looking for a contract with a low base salary and incentives based upon his workload.
Who believes that? I suspect Pavano is looking for a high base salary. Even if nobody would pay it.
by cleveland teamer on Jan 6, 2009 3:14 PM EST reply actions
I guess I’ve decided that this deal
A) Will not work out.
B) That won’t matter because it’s not a lot of money.
Steel Nick
Just as an aside, but the Tribe is paying Pavano less to pitch in 2009 ($1.5 base) than the Yankees paid him to go away in 2008 ($1.9). Yes, these are unrelated facts but the comp goes to show you are right in saying it’s not a lot of money in MLB terms. You never know, he might work out for a couple of weeks or months, and the money will have been a good flyer investment.
even further aside…we’ll be paying Pavano just $300,000 more than the Mets will be paying Bobby Bonilla every year between 2011 and 2035. Bobby Bonilla. 2035. And yes, he will be 72 when his contract officially ends.
by APV on Jan 7, 2009 11:34 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
The Mets released him on January 3, the first workday of the new millennium and a few weeks after he guaranteed “fireworks in the millennium” if he didn’t play regularly in 2000. Bonilla has been unable to back up his inappropriately loud talk with his play, but a contract that guaranteed him $5.9 million for 2000 served as a major threat to the Mets, who tired of his act. Bonilla was holding all the cards, so to speak.
The best the Mots could do was get him to defer his pay—with interest—for 11 years. Under terms of the agreement, Bonilla will be paid nearly $1.2 million every year from 2011 to 2035. The total will come to approximately $29.8 million, or about $835,000 more than the club gave Bonilla in December 1991 when they made him the game’s richest player.
by APV on Jan 7, 2009 2:15 PM EST up reply actions
the second part should be boxed too, not sure why it isn’t
by APV on Jan 7, 2009 2:15 PM EST up reply actions
That’s about what Dan Denham and J.D. Martin cost, right? BTW, I still haven’t given up on J.D. Martin. Or Fernando Cabrera. I let go of Jason Davis sometime last year.
Well you both are fans of the Nationals then, since he signed with them this offseason. Along with our old friend Matt Whitney. Both are spring training invites.
They’re sort of our reverse-AAA affiliate. On the way up, you stop by Columbus. On the way down, the Nats.
by Jay on Jan 7, 2009 2:14 PM EST up reply actions
I think most diehards would admit to being psyched if we got him back on a minor league deal. Still, I would fully expect eventually we’d release him and be aggravated all over again.
As I recall, he was annoyed to have been DFA’ed and insisted that he’d only had two or three bad outings. As if.
by Jay on Jan 7, 2009 4:04 PM EST up reply actions
The Oakland debacle is what ended my affection for him. Although that was a Borowski-Cabrera blown save combo platter
Like corned beef and pastrami, those two. If cold cuts were blown saves.
by Jay on Jan 7, 2009 4:47 PM EST up reply actions
Pavana doesn’t have Millwood’s history. If signed, I’d expect his results to be more Paul Byrd than Kevin Millwood.
Also, what’s with the PD’s picture:
After getting his Yankee deal, Pavano’s head actually did grow to that size.
Signature to be named later.
How’d that dude (briefly) get Alyssa Milano?
by JulioBernazard on Jan 6, 2009 5:24 PM EST up reply actions
According to Castrovince, done deal:
Pavano and the Indians have agreed to a one-year Major League deal that was to be announced Tuesday afternoon. The deal does not include an option. 1B Michael Aubrey was designated for assignment to clear Pavano’s spot.
Bye, Michael Aubrey
You had such great potential
Never to fulfill.
by woodsmeister on Jan 6, 2009 3:30 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Keith Law is adding Michael Aubrey to the list of players he thought would be good but didn’t pan out.
Law’s Facebook status.
Steel Nick
by nickjs21 on Jan 6, 2009 5:05 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
circle of life.
You know Selig? Ombudsman.
by rolub on Jan 6, 2009 4:04 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Pavano is really good when not pitching for the Yankees.
by Jay on Jan 6, 2009 3:43 PM EST up reply actions
We got our Marlin after all!
Travis Hafner is overrated. Clarity is underrated. David Dellucci is David Dellucci.
Travis Hafner is overrated. Clarity is underrated. David Dellucci is David Dellucci.
by westbrook on Jan 6, 2009 4:09 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
It’s mostly a numbers game thing. It’s a depth signing, but the depth option is going to get the first priority. Lewis has only four starts at AAA. Huff has none. Reyes’ peripherals are scary, but him being out of options gives him the edge. Jackson is not a legitimate option. Sowers’ AAA numbers insist he can pitch at the major league level, and Laffey’s MLB numbers suggest he can pitch at the MLB level. I’m fine with everyone with the exception of Laffey starting in AAA.
And it’s going to be a cheap deal, so much so that I’m sure he’ll get the boot if he’s not doing his job. I just have fears of Livan Hernandez, Ramon Ortiz, and the like, blocking the real talent with their “veteran” status.
According to Castrovince here are the terms:
Pavano is guaranteed $1.5 million for ’09, with the chance to make another $5.3 million in performance-based incentives.
Now that’s cheap. Definitely the “creative contract” Shapiro was talking about. I just wonder how easily attainable are the incentives. At least it’s a cheap guarantee.
Denver Post is saying the incentives don’t kick in until 18 starts and 130 innings. Fair timing for Cleveland, who’ll have a few other options mid-season (Huff? Sowers? Lewis?), the ability to go get a starter on the market if they are in a pennant race, and the option to cut Pavano with having paid him very little.
That’s slightly more than the bag of chips and leftover frozen pizza in the fridge I was hoping we signed him for
by APV on Jan 6, 2009 8:20 PM EST up reply actions
damn you for making me look.
i stopped when the guy was assuming pessimistic cases for Lee and Carmona, but pretty much locked in 10 wins for Byrd.
You know Selig? Ombudsman.
Payroll now at approximately $79.5M (including Westbrook and estimates for pre-arb guys) if Shoppach gets $1.5M in his first year of arbitration eligibility.
He’ll get more than that. Hell, Broussard got $2 million.
I’d pencil in 3 for him, especially considering we may give him a little bonus as part of a multi-year deal.
by Jay on Jan 6, 2009 4:22 PM EST up reply actions
Well, I generally come in at least fifteen minutes late, ah, I use the side door—that way Lumbergh can’t see me, heh—after that I sorta space out for an hour. I just stare at my desk, but it looks like I’m working. I do that for probably another hour after lunch too, I’d say in a given week I probably only do about fifteen minutes of real, actual, work.
by Jay on Jan 6, 2009 4:24 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I’d love to find a job where I could get paid $1.5 million with no expectations.
Please just don’t beat Juan Gone’s record for quickest dead comeback ever.
proverbial "moron in a hurry"
I think if it has to include playing time in the bigs to qualify, Juan Gone’s safe. That was a classic Cleveland sports moment.
Don’t forget our buddy Keith Foulke, he needs to be included in this discussion as well
by millionairesrow on Jan 6, 2009 5:02 PM EST up reply actions
I thought we were being Cleveland specific
by millionairesrow on Jan 6, 2009 5:15 PM EST up reply actions
I think Keith Hernandez still ranks fairly highly on this list.
by ganatz on Jan 6, 2009 5:21 PM EST up reply actions
That’s the closest I’ve come in my young life to a truly “Cleveland” moment. I still remember where I was when I heard Hammy describe that event.
so from the overthinking it department – if jordan brown got selected in rule 5 would they have DFA’d Aubrey here?
That sound you barely hear is the soft tossing of various belongings into a duffel bag labeled Z. Jackson.
by NickFantana on Jan 6, 2009 5:21 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Polaris?
OMG, I just realized I haven’t lived in Ohio for 6 years. I bet there are better malls than Polaris now, but that one was to become the big deal when I leaving.
This post was very baseball relevant…
If you like inside malls, Polaris is still #1. If you like the outside mall “lifestyle center”-type development, then you would want to go to Easton.
by woodsmeister on Jan 7, 2009 12:32 PM EST up reply actions
Eh, Easton is kinda ghetto. We hardly go there — of course, we live 5 mintues away from Polaris. Not that we go there much, either. Thankfully, my wife isn’t much of a shopper; she’s the kind of woman that knows what she wants to buy, finds it, then leaves. I like that.
The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay
City Center is pretty much an empty shell that people pass through on their way from the Statehouse to the parking garages. I believe that you can count the open stores on one hand. It has been dying a slow death for the last 5 years. It was so dead that it was, essentially, repo’d by the City. The problem is that the City has absolutely no clue what to do with it. Step 1 was taking down the overhead walkway that connected the mall with what once was Lazarus. Step 2? Anybody’s guess.
::very nearly resists the urge to say something like, “don’t worry, I’m confident it will open again”::
by Logodaedalus on Jan 8, 2009 11:12 AM EST up reply actions
Polaris is adding “outside mall” stores where Kaufmann’s used to be. There’s also a Cheesecake Factory and other restaurants and bars. A new British-style pub called “The Pub” just opened and I met some friends there New Year’s Eve. It’s pretty nice and has a vast array of beers.
The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay
I also visited “The Pub” while I was home for the holidays. It does have a nice beer list (Bellhaven on tap!), but the food was terrible and I found the place to be pretty cheesy. The staff was wearing kilts and they were televising European Soccer that nobody was watching.
Really, you thought the food was terrible? I had the fish and chips and I thought the fish was fantastic, even better than at The Old Bad of Nails.
The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay
Flag…. This is crazy talk…. No one beats ‘the Bag’ at fish sandwiches. Grady batting second – OK, Easton is ghetto – huh? But this.
You’re all wrong. The best fish and chips are at the Dublin Pub in Dayton, Ohio. I know there’s a small Dayton presence here, someone help me out.
Steel Nick
YES!
As a graduate of UD, a minor regret is not venturing off campus more often to go there.
on the other hand, other than Dublin Pub and 5/3 Field, there was really no reason to leave campus.
You know Selig? Ombudsman.
While the Dublin Pub didn’t open until my Senior Year, it was where I took my family during graduation weekend.
And, yes, it was one of the only reasons to ever leave campus.
by The DiaTriber on Jan 7, 2009 4:39 PM EST up reply actions
i’m pretty freaking sure i ate at dublin pub in eilat, israel
Anti-Ben Fran before it was cool.
by Gradyforpresident on Jan 7, 2009 4:52 PM EST up reply actions
fighting words
Anti-Ben Fran before it was cool.
by Gradyforpresident on Jan 7, 2009 6:35 PM EST up reply actions
Actually, having recently eaten at The Pub, I pretty much have to agree with Brad. Both my wife and I thought the fish and chips there was better than Old Bag of Nails. However, I agree with ClarkM about the cheesiness.
Thank you!
Also, that place must be doing some great business. It only opened two weeks ago and already three LGT readers have eaten there.
The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay
http://www.letsgotribe.com/2008/12/15/692626/mark-shapiro-was-targeting#10789923
Jackson should get a fourth option year for 2009, since he’s only played in four full seasons as a pro.
I don’t think Shapiro would have acquired him if he were out of options.
by Jay on Dec 16, 2008 7:37 PM CST up actions 1 recs
I think we’re going to see a trend start of high-profile Yankees leaving in free agency to the Indians.
Enjoy them while you can, New Yorkers. I almost feel sorry for that city.
Steel Nick
by nickjs21 on Jan 6, 2009 5:08 PM EST reply actions 6 recs
oh how i miss the grog shop. i once interviewed built to spill in the taco place next door…what was the name of that taco place?
well its since been a qudoba, but I imagine your interview with built to spill occurred many a year prior to that. By the way what were you interviewing him for? magazine?
Isn’t BtS a band, not a guy? I love the album You in Reverse.
by JulioBernazard on Jan 6, 2009 5:33 PM EST up reply actions
BtS is a band, but fronted by Doug Martsch who does almost all the talking and press work. It was great fun to interview them. I was a broadcasting major in college and used my limited contacts with label reps to get a press pass for the show and interview with BtS. I think I still have that interview on minidisc some where, now if I only had a functioning minidisc player…
yeah, being a college dj was a blast. shortly thereafter, i decided the professional side of things were exactly the opposite.
rec for college DJing
It never got me any very cool interviews though.
by cleveland teamer on Jan 6, 2009 10:10 PM EST up reply actions
qdoba or que tal?
i know that chipotles like to move into qdoba neighborhoods, but not the other way around.
You know Selig? Ombudsman.
1. Lee
2. Fausto
3. Pavano
4. Reyes
5. Laffey*
6. Victor
7. Shoppach
8. Hafner
9. Garko
10. Asdrubal
11. Jhonny
12. DeRosa
13. Francisco
14. Grady
15. Choo
16. DDeelluuccii**
17. Carroll
18. Wood
19. Perez
20. Lewis
21. Betancourt
22. Smith
23. Mujica*
24. Masa**
25. Marte**
Travis Hafner is overrated. Clarity is underrated. David Dellucci is David Dellucci.
by westbrook on Jan 6, 2009 5:30 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
and by pictures I meant pictured…… oh my god I’m talking to hans, my doppleganger!
by hans on Jan 6, 2009 5:30 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
rec for correctly spelling umlauts.
Travis Hafner is overrated. Clarity is underrated. David Dellucci is David Dellucci.
by westbrook on Jan 6, 2009 6:37 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
rec for rec’ing the rec of a rec, ironically.
by Ryan Kelsey on Jan 6, 2009 7:50 PM EST up reply actions 6 recs
rec for identifying irony.
Travis Hafner is overrated. Clarity is underrated. David Dellucci is David Dellucci.
by westbrook on Jan 6, 2009 8:09 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
rec for Christmas tree reference.
"...leading the league in most offensive categories. Including nose hairs."
by sarcasmdave on Jan 6, 2009 9:57 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
rec for sarcasm from sarcasmdave
Travis Hafner is overrated. Clarity is underrated. David Dellucci is David Dellucci.
by westbrook on Jan 6, 2009 10:08 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
Rec for LGT going green.
Il faut d'abord durer.
by CU Adam on Jan 6, 2009 10:09 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
rec’d um? damn near killed ’em!
You know Selig? Ombudsman.
by rolub on Jan 6, 2009 10:22 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Rec for me being a conformity whore.
Steel Nick
by nickjs21 on Jan 6, 2009 10:25 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
No recs for me for being a party-pooper.
by Voltaire on Jan 7, 2009 12:42 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Rec for failed attempt to end the tree,
by KevinV on Jan 7, 2009 12:46 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Rec for aw man are we running out of subthread room?
Steel Nick
by nickjs21 on Jan 7, 2009 12:51 AM EST up reply actions 4 recs
rec for not realizing that every christmas tree needs a trunk. unfortunately(only in this case), there’s no optional brown highlight.
Travis Hafner is overrated. Clarity is underrated. David Dellucci is David Dellucci.
by westbrook on Jan 7, 2009 12:54 AM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Rec for not realizing that the trunkage stays beigey tan as long as you ‘Z’ through life and mark everything transparently white. Smell the evergreen and take in the joy of the trunk. Although I do have to admit the actual color looks a bit more “Buff” “Old Lace” or “Cornsilk” to me.
Still the local "Barfield Bounces Back Believer" and confident that Gutz will succeed in Seattle.
by mjmarble on Jan 7, 2009 1:00 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Wow. I knew there was a reason I came to LGT for all my serious baseball analysis needs.
Burn on, big river, burn on...
by Turkmenbashi on Jan 7, 2009 9:28 AM EST up reply actions 4 recs
now we can go green, white, green, white…
Travis Hafner is overrated. Clarity is underrated. David Dellucci is David Dellucci.
by westbrook on Jan 7, 2009 5:45 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Rec for the original post that was recced still not being green.
by still ill on Jan 7, 2009 7:17 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Don’t rec it! You’ll ruin it.
Steel Nick
by nickjs21 on Jan 7, 2009 8:08 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
red, but DO NOT REC THIS ONE
Travis Hafner is overrated. Clarity is underrated. David Dellucci is David Dellucci.
by westbrook on Jan 8, 2009 12:48 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
flag?
Travis Hafner is overrated. Clarity is underrated. David Dellucci is David Dellucci.
by westbrook on Jan 6, 2009 10:08 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Yes, LGT is where they come for their serious analysis …
by Jay on Jan 6, 2009 11:33 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
“[H]e was in a group of pitchers that we were interested on,” said Shapiro, who added that he didn’t have a lot of money to work with. “His physical conditioning was the separator. He’s strong and he’s healthy.”
I’m assuming this is your projection for the line Pavano puts up this season
by APV on Jan 6, 2009 8:23 PM EST up reply actions
Brick’s post says Grady should stay in the leadoff spot?
"Lotta heart in Cleveland." - Ian Hunter
by Denver Tribe Fan on Jan 6, 2009 9:19 PM EST up reply actions
so Laffey, Lewis, Jackson, Sowers, and Huff are going to battle it out in spring training for the #5 spot in the rotation. i think it’s only safe to assume whoever wins will also win the Cy Young.
by Brick. on Jan 6, 2009 5:54 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
UPDATE No. 6 (5:20 p.m.): If you’re incredibly curious about this contract, it breaks down as follows, according to a Major League source. Pavano gets $100,000 each for reaching 18, 20 and 22 starts, $200,000 each for reaching 24, 26 and 28 starts, $250,000 for 30 starts, $300,000 for 32 starts, $350,000 each for 33 and 34 starts and $400,000 for 35 starts.
He gets $100,000 each for reaching 130, 140 and 150 innings pitched, $150,000 each for 160 and 170 innings, $200,000 for 180, $250,000 for 190, $250,000 for 200, $300,000 for 215, $400,000 for 225 and $500,000 for 235.
I have, but I print out Cot’s pages to read in the bathroom.
by Jay on Jan 6, 2009 7:44 PM EST up reply actions
what a waste of trees
Travis Hafner is overrated. Clarity is underrated. David Dellucci is David Dellucci.
“read”
"Lotta heart in Cleveland." - Ian Hunter
by Denver Tribe Fan on Jan 6, 2009 9:20 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I thought LGT was going green?
Steel Nick
by nickjs21 on Jan 6, 2009 10:27 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
This feels a lot like Who Wants to be a Millionaire: Reclamation Project Edition.
End of the 8th inning
Carl: Yeah Reeg, I’d like to use a lifeline. Bring in The Wood.
ominous music followed by a victory dance
by supermarioelia on Jan 6, 2009 6:16 PM EST up reply actions
Here’s some scenarios …
1-17 starts — 1.5M
18-19 starts — 1.6M
20-21 starts, <130 IP — 1.7M
20-21 starts, 130-139 IP — 1.8M
22-23 starts, 130-139 IP — 1.9M
24-25 starts, 140-149 IP — 2.2M
26-27 starts, 150-159 IP — 2.5M
28-29 starts, 160-169 IP — 2.85M
30-31 starts, 170-179 IP — 3.25M
30-31 starts, 180-189 IP — 3.45M
32 starts, 190-199 IP — 4.0M
33 starts, 200-214 IP — 4.6M
33 starts, 215-224 IP — 4.9M
34 starts, 225-234 IP — 5.65M
35 starts, 235+ IP — 6.55M
I would say that Pavano’s salary rises to about $4 million if he has a solid full season as a #3 pitcher. The bulk of the bonus money is if he essentialy is a #2 guy and/or innings-eating monster.
by Jay on Jan 6, 2009 8:04 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah
I dunno, this deal seems fine? Even if we pay him $6.5MM for #3 production, that’s pretty darn good, isn’t it?
Webmaster of Driveline Mechanics
http://www.drivelinemechanics.com - An Unconventional Look at Scouting
That would be an astoundingly good deal. Number-three starters are getting $12 million minimum on four-year, fully guaranteed deals.
This would be about half the money, with almost no downside risk, and a one-year deal.
by Jay on Jan 7, 2009 7:53 AM EST up reply actions
If we pay Pavano $6.5 million it will be because he was a legitimate ace, not a #3 guy. No one last year acheived both of the escalators he would need for the $6.5. Sabathia and Halladay had the innings, but not the starts. A laundry list of pretty good pitchers (Bronson Arroyo excepted) hit 34 starts but only Johan Santana was close to 235 IP. In Pavano’s best year, and his last healthy year, he threw 222 1/3 innings in 31 starts. If we pay him $6.5 million this year, everyone will be thrilled.
Shap is awesome. except when he trades away defensive OFs with hitting potential.
Travis Hafner is overrated. Clarity is underrated. David Dellucci is David Dellucci.
"Carl was very impressed with everything when he visited Cleveland,‘’ agent Tom O’Connell said. "He’s excited to be there and he feels like this is a tremendous opportunity.’’
And have good command of that improved fastball so he can become dominant. :-)
The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.
Hello Joe,
Often when a guy gets an improved fastball (i.e. throws harder), it can come with a lack of commanding it; the command is the real key to whether the improved fastball is a benefit or not. I agree though that Pavano’s strongest asset was his command, so let’s hope that command trend continues.
Jay – nice antithesis. Exactly the opposite of that. :-)
The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.
That sentence is as inspirational as Roots.
by JRontherim on Jan 6, 2009 7:54 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
seriously
Anti-Ben Fran before it was cool.
by Gradyforpresident on Jan 6, 2009 11:16 PM EST up reply actions
Have you seen the Carl Pavano Yankeeography?
It’s titled: Carl Pavano, the Bronx Buttocks
I also tried to find something positive in Pavano’s numbers. Best I can come up with is that he appears to still be alive.
by APV on Jan 6, 2009 8:26 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
He was traded for Pedro Martinez once.
Hey, he’s better than Brian Rose, and possibly better than Jeff Suppan.
The real downside is that a significant segment of fans will focus on this signing as though it’s a negative — insert dumb quote here — rather than recognizing that the Indians hit a couple of solid doubles by acquiring Wood and DeRosa and are really just going for a sac-bunt on this guy.
by Jay on Jan 6, 2009 8:57 PM EST up reply actions
And Wedge’s hand finds its way into offseason….
by hans on Jan 6, 2009 9:06 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
if you’re trying to stifle my irreverent negativity with a valid point, you fail to appreciate the power of spending a full day at airports and on planes
by APV on Jan 6, 2009 9:55 PM EST up reply actions
I agree. I think the real danger is just that the fans might see this as a more significant signing than it is — inevitably being disappointed by failure. The average fan doesn’t remember the contract details, doesn’t realize that failure was, by the very nature of the contract, always considered a significant probability.
I heard a radio interview with Shapiro two days ago, mostly discussing the DeRosa trade. He indicated that the Indians were basically done dealing, specifically noting that going into the offseason they had wanted to sign or trade for a starter, but that the market dictated that relief pitching and, to a far lesser extent, infield were positions that they were able to find value. He further stated that any other deal would either a) not involve adding payroll unless they could subtract somewhere else or b) involve a lot of creativity. I think it’s safe to say the Pavano deal was already on the table at that point. Shapiro, though, was clearly already trying to hedge against the fans viewing this deal as significant.
from the locked thread (jay)
Here’s a scary fact: Lee racked up more PRC last season (139) than Carmona, Sowers, Laffey, Reyes and Westbrook combined (33 + 32 + 31 + 25 + 17 = 138).
You’re intentionally leaving out all of the PRCs that Bullington gave us to put the group over 139, aren’t you?
Travis Hafner is overrated. Clarity is underrated. David Dellucci is David Dellucci.
Dude-that’s why the thread got locked. Because a bunch of us we’re closing in on that fact.
by afh4 on Jan 7, 2009 12:40 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Of course Bullington was left out because it’s a list of our 2009 starters.
The rest of the list:
Jackson – 15
SLewis – 12
by Jay on Jan 7, 2009 2:22 PM EST up reply actions
or didn’t realize the obvious sarcasm in the words “all of the PRCs”
Travis Hafner is overrated. Clarity is underrated. David Dellucci is David Dellucci.
No, I was just subtly suggesting that I could have done that joke better than you.
by Jay on Jan 7, 2009 3:17 PM EST up reply actions
Zach Attack*
A few people have e-mailed about Zach Jackson’s Minor League options status, related to his mention in yesterday’s Pavano story.
Jackson has a fourth Minor League option. How did he pull this off? Well, there’s a stipulation in the rulebook that players entering their fourth or fifth professional season who have already been optioned out in three separate years receive a fourth option. Seasons spent entirely in short-season leagues don’t count toward that tally, so Jackson’s 2004 stint in the New York-Penn League doesn’t count.
So there you go.
* Zach Attack should not be confused with Zack Attack, which was the name of Zack Morris’ band in my — and hopefully your — all-time favorite Saved by the Bell episode, “Rockumentary.” It includes the classic scene in which Zack and his much-despised girlfriend enter the recording studio and insist that the band play their newly penned song, “Love Me Now.” The other members of Zack Attack are quite displeased at this development, and yet … they nail the song! On the first take! It’s unbelievable! An incredible band.
Our friend Castro. Normally I would never quote so much but I really like the footnote, and the only relevant part is the note before it.
Steel Nick
It irks me that someone else has figured out the fourth options rule. I thought it was just me, Callis and Law.
by Jay on Jan 7, 2009 5:41 PM EST up reply actions
Four people for the fourth option rule. The fifth person to figure it out will die a horrible death. Watch yourself, Brickford.
by NickFantana on Jan 7, 2009 5:51 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
So you do know what it feels like to listen to indie rock.
Steel Nick
by nickjs21 on Jan 7, 2009 6:12 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
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