Will Ohman?
by stickpiano on Jan 7, 2009 3:39 PM EST
96 comments
The Indians don't have a lot of left-handed relief depth. Rafael Perez is beyond fine, but then it drops off to Rich Rundles and Tony Sipp. Sipp has potential, of course, but it is a position of need for the Indians.
A couple of links that demonstrate the Indians interest in Ohman can be found here, here, and here. The quality of the links aren't high, but lots of outlets keep including the Indians in a laundry list of teams that are in on Ohman.
Do you think the Indians still have the cash available for another signing? My guess is Ohman could be had for 2 years, 5-6 million. Bill James and Marcels project him as a decent lefty out of the pen, he looks even better a second lefty behind Perez.
Are there other LHRPs you'd rather the Indians target? Do you think Shapiro has access to a little more scratch to get another signing like this done?
Wood
Betancourt
Perez
Smith
J. Lewis
Kobayashi
Ohman
That looks like a pretty solid bullpen, with big arms like Miller, Meloan, and Sipp a phone call away.
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I want MIller and Meloan in the bullpen NOW dammit.
Beimel’s also out there. I’m sure he costs more but everyone’s price is dropping.
Steel Nick
by nickjs21 on Jan 7, 2009 4:04 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I think Miller a little bit more than Meloan. Miller in AAA (in any role) is wasting his time. He is ready for a ML reliever role right now.
by hans on Jan 7, 2009 4:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Miller and Meloan are not LHPs. I think they are great too, and I think we’ll see both in the pen this year at some point. I don’t think we’ll resign Betancourt and just work Miller or Meloan or J.Lewis into his position.
by stickpiano on Jan 7, 2009 4:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Who said they are going to demand to have more than one LHP in the bullpen? I think when it comes down to it, they go with the better pitcher over the “needs to be a LOOGY” in the pen philosophy.
by hans on Jan 7, 2009 7:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hello stickpiano,
I can understand Miller and Meloan not being LHPs, but their type of stuff usually doesn’t just relegate them to a righty-on-righty role. Arguably, if Sipp is healthy (a considerable IF at this point), he’s not just a lefty-on-lefty type guy either, though Perez has shown to this point that he isn’t either.
I’m not that familiar with Ohman, though it sounds like he’s more the left-on-left type, so we’re talking more “apples” and “oranges” here when it comes to Ohman and guys like Sipp, Meloan, and Miller, all three with the stuff and ability to not be hampered by batters from the other side.
Rundles is more of that left-on-left type reliever – it probably will depend on what Ohman’s salary demands are and how much competition there is for him; as Hans moreless implied, some may see a second lefty as more of a luxury rather than a necessity, if the Indians can get him relatively cheaply, they may, but they may just feel that saving the money and putting Rundles in that role (at least to start the season) may be the best way to keep some financial flexibility, especially for a possible mid-season trade.
Just my 2 cents.
The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.
by indiansfan on Jan 7, 2009 7:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
My feeling is that we are out of money
by Roger Dorn on Jan 7, 2009 4:08 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I think they’ve made that pretty clear. My sense is that if Pavano’s incentive clauses kick in in any substantial way, we’re deficit spending at that point, but that Dolan considers that to be a sensible trade-off. If that happens, either we’re in a pennant race and/or he becomes a trading chip far more valuable than the cash.
by Jay on Jan 7, 2009 5:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
And Pavano pitching like a good #2 pitcher? C’mon. Not even Pavano believes he’s going to get that money.
by world dictator on Jan 7, 2009 5:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It’s like Tony Pena Jr. getting a bonus clause in his contract if he’s the MVP. Or Marte getting incentive clause that kicks in after 300 plate appearances.
by odradek on Jan 7, 2009 7:05 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Pavano is very unlikely to earn all of the incentives, but stranger things have happened. For example, I bet both Cliff Lee and the front office didn’t think his 2010 option would be increased from 8 Million to 9 Million by winning the Cy Young in 2008 or 2009. Cliff also earned 100 grand for being an all star and 250 grand for winning the Cy Young. Cot’s is awesome.
by ClarkM on Jan 7, 2009 7:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
But when Cliff signed that contract it wasn’t the most improbable thing in the world.
Steel Nick
by nickjs21 on Jan 7, 2009 8:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He signed the extension in August of 2006, so these things were still unlikley, though much more likely than at the start of the 2008 season. Cliff was not having a very good season, he needed a good September to push his numbers slighlty above league average. Granted, in 2005, Cliff had finished 4th in the Cy Young voting, so it may seem like it wasn’t that unlikely, but Cliff’s success in the voting was due to an unsustainable won-loss record.
by ClarkM on Jan 8, 2009 10:58 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Will Ohman do what exactly? You never finished the phrase ;)
by talonk on Jan 7, 2009 4:16 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
As long as he takes Mujica’s spot on the 40-man…
by Let'sPlay2 on Jan 7, 2009 4:38 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
We’re probably linked to Ohman simply because we were linked to him earlier this offseason.
by world dictator on Jan 7, 2009 5:13 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I’m fine with Rich Rundles as our second lefty, but I don’t think we necessarily have to carry him.
by ClarkM on Jan 7, 2009 5:20 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
i only clicked on this because i thought it said “will oldham.”
by emil minty on Jan 7, 2009 5:22 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
I like the idea of signing Ohman just because it would be fun to chant his name.
by cleveland teamer on Jan 7, 2009 5:33 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
We already have Will Ohman. Our model is called Rich Rundles.
by NickFantana on Jan 7, 2009 5:52 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
will ohman is a proven commodity. rich rundles is not.
will ohman has put together some decent years in the bigs against mlb hitters.
i’m okay with not signing him, but saying that we already have will ohman and his name is rich isn’t going to cut it.
by stickpiano on Jan 7, 2009 8:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I said it and it seemed to cut it so far, as they haven’t signed him. I’ll keep you posted.
by NickFantana on Jan 7, 2009 8:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I have a pet rock. It keeps this guy named E5 away. I haven’t seen him around since I bought it. Guess it works.
by world dictator on Jan 8, 2009 7:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ok, you certainly can’t be that glib about it.
by fwembt on Jan 9, 2009 12:48 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It was glib, and perhaps a little dickish, but I’d note it’s still working.
by NickFantana on Jan 9, 2009 11:47 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Last year Joe BLOWrowski was OH #^%! MAN
by Let'sPlay2 on Jan 7, 2009 6:04 PM EST reply actions 4 recs
he’s hiding in the bushes somewhere around here…
by Brick. on Jan 7, 2009 7:21 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Ohman’s a luxury the Indians can’t afford right now, and I think there’s a larger gain to be had. The plan should be to make Adam Miller throw a substantial amount of innings out of the bullpen in 2009 (80-90 innings in two or three inning stints ), perhaps setting him up to join the rotation in 2010 with the ability to throw 150-170 innings. Maybe Miller is needed at the back of the pen if Wood and friends have issues. Maybe Miller can’t stay healthy as a starter and will spend his first two or three years as a set up man before taking over as closer. Maybe Miller amounts to nothing. Or, hopefully, he has a healthy 2009 in the bullpen and rejoins the rotation in 2010, because pitchers with his stuff should at least be tried in the role if health will allow.
by xrickx on Jan 8, 2009 2:40 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Do we really need another LOOGY?
Webmaster of Driveline Mechanics
http://www.drivelinemechanics.com - An Unconventional Look at Scouting
by Kyle Boddy on Jan 8, 2009 10:42 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Sorry, in the habit of it from Athletics Nation (and every other blog)
Webmaster of Driveline Mechanics
http://www.drivelinemechanics.com - An Unconventional Look at Scouting
by Kyle Boddy on Jan 8, 2009 2:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
if we start letting kyle use them, then next thing you know everyone is going to want to use them. GFP will start using rally caps in the subject line. mario will start talking with chuck about medical stuff there…. i don’t know about you, but i have no interest in talking about adam dunn in clickable bold.
by Brick. on Jan 8, 2009 3:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No, honestly, I typed sarc inside < > and it didnt show up .. weird.
by talonk on Jan 8, 2009 6:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The engine strips out html that it doesn’t know how to interpret.
by Jay on Jan 8, 2009 6:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Try this:
</sarc>
To get this:
</sarc>
It’s a pain, but you have to ask yourself what kind of standard you want to set with your commenting, i.e., does this comment belong on a championship-caliber blog?
by Jay on Jan 8, 2009 6:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
At what point do the Indians reciprocate their championship caliber blogs with a championship of their own?
by Roger Dorn on Jan 8, 2009 7:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
This is the Indians fan ethic. Regardless of how hard the organization is trying in any given season, our standard for ourselves remains high.
by Jay on Jan 8, 2009 7:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m sliding head first into my posts next season
by APV on Jan 8, 2009 7:35 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I decided to go post at Pinstripe Alley. I hear the recs are great, which is important because I’m a family man. Also, I’m committed to a winning blog.
Steel Nick
by nickjs21 on Jan 8, 2009 7:47 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
Standing-O for both you guys. That is some serious championship caliber commenting!
by Jay on Jan 8, 2009 8:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
So you’re like LGT’s David Eckstein. Are you 5’6"?
The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay
by Buckeye Brad on Jan 8, 2009 10:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
YOU CAN CLICK SUBJECT LINES???!!!!!!!
Burn on, big river, burn on...
by Turkmenbashi on Jan 9, 2009 5:30 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Hello Turk,
It seems when you click on the “Subject Lines,” they close up the comments (in Kyle’s case, his sig. files), so if you used subject lines, the threads might be more compact.
However, I get the feeling you guys won’t be using subject lines any time soon, for that reason or any other, LOL. :-)
The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.
by indiansfan on Jan 9, 2009 8:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i think we do need another loogy, because i don’t think we have one. perez is a full inning guy. i don’t trust rich rundles as the primary matchup lefty. i just don’t.
by stickpiano on Jan 8, 2009 10:56 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’ll have to agree to disagree. I’d like to go to spring training with him and have him in the roll specifically. If it’s not working out, then we can make a move to get someone else into that spot.
-Erik
by drerikbrady on Jan 8, 2009 10:59 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I have to say, this is just plain irrational.
Ohman has been a pretty ordinary reliever for most of his career. His fluctuation around 100 ERA+ is likely just noise, and 100 is nothing impressive for a reliever at all.
Rundles struck out 34.1% of the lefties he faced last season and allowed them to slug just .203 against him — that is dominant.
We don’t even necessarily need a matchup lefty, but there is little reason to doubt Rundles could be effective in that role, and little reason to think Ohman would be a revelation in it.
“You just don’t.” Got it — that’s your argument. It’s been stated. Unless you’ve got something more than that, time to move on.
by Jay on Jan 8, 2009 11:23 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Can we trust you to be objective? LGT sponsors Rich Rundles’ page at B-Ref.
by ClarkM on Jan 8, 2009 11:45 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
We do? I don’t know who did that. Thanks, whoever did that. Suspecting Andrew.
by Jay on Jan 8, 2009 1:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
A likely story.
Webmaster of Driveline Mechanics
http://www.drivelinemechanics.com - An Unconventional Look at Scouting
by Kyle Boddy on Jan 8, 2009 2:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, my initial thought was “Jay did that to make fun of me.” I don’t know who did it.
by afh4 on Jan 8, 2009 6:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That would be me. Gotta keep adding talent, you know.
by Ryan on Jan 14, 2009 1:38 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
btw, here’s the players LGT currently sponsors:
Scott Lewis
Jhonny Peralta
Rich Rundles
George Uhle
Stan Coveleski
Unfortunately, I let the Rafael Betancourt sponsorship lapse, and it was quickly snapped up. Oh well.
by Ryan on Jan 14, 2009 1:42 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Nicholas Weglarz is unsponsored.
Steel Nick
by nickjs21 on Jan 14, 2009 9:43 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Unfortunately a player needs to have a major-league page in order to be sponsored.
by Ryan on Jan 14, 2009 10:32 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, add Luis Valbuena, Zach Jackson, and J-Barf to that list.
I also noticed Grady is currently not sponsored.
by Pronktastic on Jan 14, 2009 11:27 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
wow, Grady’s available? Can’t pass that up.
by Ryan on Jan 14, 2009 12:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Would you mind cluing me in on what sponsorship accomplishes?
by Roger Dorn on Jan 14, 2009 11:58 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
First of all, it’s my way of thanking Sean Forman for running the best baseball site in the world.
And secondly, it’s exactly the target audience Let’s Go Tribe caters to.
by Ryan on Jan 14, 2009 12:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That’s a good point about the ad. I was mainly curious if it costs money
by Roger Dorn on Jan 14, 2009 12:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Different players have different costs I believe. Check out any unsponsored player’s page and it says right there how much it will be to sponsor.
Steel Nick
by nickjs21 on Jan 14, 2009 12:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I was really hoping Justin Chamberlain’s page wasn’t sponsored so everyone could know It’s May Baseball.
Steel Nick
by nickjs21 on Jan 14, 2009 12:16 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
rec
Anti-Ben Fran before it was cool.
by Gradyforpresident on Jan 14, 2009 12:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Dude, if you’re around the computer tonight, drop me a line at the e-mail on my profile. I’m in Iowa.
by NickFantana on Jan 14, 2009 11:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
shooot. just saw this. still around? (also, iowa is kind of a big state?)
Anti-Ben Fran before it was cool.
by Gradyforpresident on Jan 15, 2009 2:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Pronk is now available as well, as is Looch.
by woodsmeister on Jan 14, 2009 1:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I wonder if the ads are different in different countries, because I’m seeing ads for all of these guys. And Jhonny’s page has an AIG ad for me.
by supermarioelia on Jan 14, 2009 1:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Peralta is still sponsored by LGT. It’s right above where it says “batting.”
Steel Nick
by nickjs21 on Jan 14, 2009 2:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Out of curiosity, are you financing all this sponsoring yourself? I’d be happy to chip in, as appropriate. I also haven’t taken the time to find out how much that costs so this question may seem laughable if its 25 cents a decade or something.
by NickFantana on Jan 14, 2009 9:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’d like to see an answer here too.
-Erik
by drerikbrady on Jan 14, 2009 9:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Seriously, it isn’t that much. The bits of ad revenue from the previous incarnation of this site is still paying for the sponsorships.
by Ryan on Jan 14, 2009 11:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Isn’t there a chance of missing the forest for the trees if we get so caught up on getting another LOOGY if, in fact, a lot of our right-handers can get lefties out?
Steel Nick
by nickjs21 on Jan 8, 2009 3:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
logic?
what is this logic you speak of
Webmaster of Driveline Mechanics
http://www.drivelinemechanics.com - An Unconventional Look at Scouting
by Kyle Boddy on Jan 8, 2009 3:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The way I see it is that we have six spots locked up: Wood, Perez, Betancourt, Lewis, Smith, and Masa. That leaves the rest of the potential relievers to battle for the last spot: Rundles, Miller, and Meloan.
The appeal of Rundles is that Masa and Smith probably shouldn’t face very many lefties, and Rundles is nasty against lefties. Miller, while pretty clearly the better pitcher, has shown somewhat of a split in his minor league career, being tougher against righties. Meloan, however, has been tougher on lefties than righties in his minor league career.
In the end, it doesn’t really matter as all these guys (Miller, Rundles, Meloan), as long as they pitch well and remain healthy will get their shot at the bigs this season.
by ClarkM on Jan 8, 2009 3:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
With the crowding of talent at the bottom of the bullpen I wouldn’t be surprised if Masa wins the DFA sweepstakes before Dellucci or anyone else this season.
I’d love to have Masa pitch well enough for that not to be necessary, but eh.
Steel Nick
by nickjs21 on Jan 8, 2009 4:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t see it. Sipp and Meloan have two options remaining, and Masa is unlikely to be so bad that he can’t even mop up. Jensen and even Perez (I think) can be sent down, and so can Joe Smith. It’s a pretty flexible bullpen, which will make it easy to avoid DFAs.
by Jay on Jan 8, 2009 5:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i don’t see miller starting the year with the big club. they will want to break him into a routine at AAA and make sure he’s healthy and adjusted to the pen. i could see them to a lesser extent wanting meloan to do the same thing after the dogders experiment at starter last year – that and both i think would be somewhat wasted a la tom mastny at the bottom end of the pen – scratching for opportunities to get in the game. but, our rotation won’t go as deep this year so that may not be the case.
anyway i think rundles is the best fit for the reasons you point out.
don’t forget mujica. i’m not convinced they’re ready to punt on him yet. i could see him getting the breslow treatment to start the year.
by Brick. on Jan 8, 2009 4:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
This also.
I think they’re about as attached to Mujica as to Marte at this point, i.e., not completely detached but close. Fair to say both guys were kept in lieu of Aubrey, but that’s about it.
by Jay on Jan 8, 2009 5:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Masa pitches okay if he’s kept under 60 innings. He didn’t pitch more than 57 2/3 in his last seven years in Japan.
He pitched pretty well in the first half of the season, though he was used up, pitching 40 innings in April, May and June. He fell apart in July before Wedge stopped using him. He pitched 15 some innings in final three months.
So maybe Wedge can wear him out in the first half and have Miller ready from Columbus when Masa runs out of gas.
by odradek on Jan 8, 2009 5:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i like this plan. i want to use the same plan for pavano re: westbrook and/or huff
by Brick. on Jan 8, 2009 5:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
RR has only a small sample size-granted-but 3BB in 5IP ain’t gonna cut it for a match-up guy. Villone and Guardado are available but are they injured or just done? Probably not worth a roster spot anyway…I know he’s 42 and a righty but check out Mark Whiten’s pitching line from ’98…pretty funny…
by Let'sPlay2 on Jan 8, 2009 1:35 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Rundles does walk a few too many guys, but he does it less against lefties.
I think the correlation between a player’s first five innings in the majors and his total career is essentially zero. Look at Rundles’ splits from last year in Triple-A, there’s a little more to see there.
Also, learn to use the “reply” button.
by Jay on Jan 8, 2009 1:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Speaking of this. If anyone can find video of Mark Whiten’s home run in game 3 of the ’98 ALCS, I would be forever grateful
by Roger Dorn on Jan 8, 2009 2:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
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