The Indians plucked Pavano out of a discount bin of starters trying to revive their careers after major injuries. The Tribe also looked at Mark Mulder, Kris Benson, Freddy Garcia and Bartolo Colon before ultimately deciding Pavano had the best combination of performance upside and the sheer physical ability to take the mound early and often this season.
about 3 years ago
Brick.
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Bartolo Colon would make a great bullpen coach. READ THIS SHAPIRO!!!
by odradek on Jan 8, 2009 5:40 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Rec for READ THIS SHAPIRO!
The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay
by Buckeye Brad on Jan 8, 2009 10:39 PM EST up reply actions
Bartolo Colon would make a great bullpen mound.
by woodsmeister on Jan 9, 2009 2:20 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
There was never a second quotation mark. I believe this now implies everything we say is involved in the quote. This is a dilemma.
by JRontherim on Jan 8, 2009 6:02 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Byrd was probably too expensive and has less of an upside.
Maybe I’m strangly optimistic, but I think Pavano is going to pitch well this year.
…and add a tick or two of velocity.
by world dictator on Jan 8, 2009 7:12 PM EST up reply actions
Antonetti said that there weren’t that many options in this price range, and that Pavano was just physically more ready to pitch right now, more likely to actually contribute some innings than the other guys, which I assume means guys like Mulder.
by Jay on Jan 8, 2009 7:25 PM EST up reply actions
The Indians clearly seem focused on not effing up the beginning of the season, knowing that the rotation may look very different from July on then it does during the first three months of the season. With the potential of Westbrook returning and one of the Columbus rotation forcing their way into Cleveland, even without injuries, I am expecting a 40% turnover in the rotation after the All-Star break.
by APV on Jan 8, 2009 7:34 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe this was a lesson of 2008: the season is played out in parts. In Moneyball, Beane talks about the first two months to find out what you have, the middle two months to do something with what you have, and the final two months to win. (Something like that.) A different viewpoint may make it possible for the Indians to start the season better.
And yet the Indians recently, like the A’s earlier in the decade, have consistently made great runs in the second half.
by Jay on Jan 8, 2009 8:17 PM EST up reply actions
I agree the Indians want to get off to a fast start, but I think they have a better chance of doing that with Huff and Lewis in the rotation at the beginning of the year.
The problem with that is two-fold: 1) I think the fear with young pitching is that it wears down over the course of a long season, and pushing them in the first half isn’t going to make them any more fresh in the second (not that they’ll be skipping turns in the Columbus rotation to keep them fresh, so this argument might eat itself), and 2) If you star the young guy in the rotation and he falters, is it possible to get a Pavano and plug him in the rotation in May or June?
i don’t think there’s any way the Indians would allow Huff to make 30 starts with the big league club. one of the things (I think) will Carroll likes to say is that, for whatever reason, innings pitched in the bigs are more straining on young pitchers than innings pitched in the minors. I think the Indians are hoping Huff makes 30 starts, but only half (or so) of those with Cleveland.
by APV on Jan 8, 2009 8:02 PM EST up reply actions
I agree, and to xrickx’s point, just because you start them in the majors doesn’t mean you can’t slow them down later in the season, by sending them down, limiting innings and skipping starts. There are many ways to keep innings under control, and I don’t see starting a guy in the minors as necessarily the only way to do that.
The point about signing Pavano now, vs. finding a guy like that to plug in later, is totally valid. But then again, we already have that guy in Westbrook.
by Jay on Jan 8, 2009 8:16 PM EST up reply actions
I guess the thinking is you won’t limit innings later in the year if you need them.
Starters can be on strict pitch counts in Columbus. But if Huff is pitching a 2-1 game against the Twins in August and reaches his pitch count after 5 2/3 and all you have in the pen is Guillermo Mota (how’d he get there?), you’d probably take your chances with Huff, and let the devil take the hindmost.
I love the idea of Willis opening the door to the bullpen and finding it empty sans Guillermo Mota, with a tiny trickle of blood on his jersey.
by Voltaire on Jan 9, 2009 12:46 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
i don’t love this idea at all
Anti-Ben Fran before it was cool.
by Gradyforpresident on Jan 9, 2009 3:09 AM EST up reply actions
How confident are we that Westbrook is going to be back, and fully effective, by mid-season??
by CaptainPenny on Jan 8, 2009 10:15 PM EST up reply actions
From my understanding, and vague recollection, it takes a pitcher a seaon and a half to fully recover from tommy john surgery. A season to heal physical and a half a year to regain his velocity, command,etc.
I might be overestimating the timeframe, but I absolutely do not believe Westbrook will be 100% vintage Westbrook when he comes back.
Of course he might be fully “recovered” in time for the playoffs.
by world dictator on Jan 8, 2009 10:58 PM EST up reply actions
don’t ask why, but all this got me thinking:
if jamie moyer had TJ and came back too early, would his velocity be anywhere near most interstate highway speed limits?
You know Selig? Ombudsman.
by rolub on Jan 8, 2009 11:05 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I agree – I think we can’t expect Westbrook to be “vintage” Westbrook in the 2009 season. At best, we MIGHT see “vintage” Westbrook in the postseason (provided we get there), but I think even that is optimistic and probably unlikely.
After all, didn’t Westbrook have TJ surgery mid-summer (July or August – not sure); if that is true, 18 months wouldn’t be until around early 2010, so expecting Westbrook to be himself in the 2010 season would be realistic, but not during the 2009 season. As I mentioned, at best, MAYBE late 2009 (i.e. postseason), but it’s unlikely.
Recall that Tony Sipp wasn’t 100% recovered yet when he was pitching in the Minors last season – about now, it’s been 18 months or so, so now you would expect him to be 100 percent. He does have the shoulder issue now (which hopefully won’t be a long-term, serious issue), but in regards to the TJ surgery, he should be 100 percent recovered now according to the usual TJ recovery timetable.
Just my 2 cents.
The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.
Tony Sipp may not have been 100%, but he was damned good anyway.
by Jay on Jan 9, 2009 1:43 AM EST up reply actions
Hello Jay,
I agree – Sipp did quite well even before he was 100, which is why his possible shoulder injury and possible extended injury time to begin 2009 is so disheartening – I think he could have really played a factor in our bullpen this year, and he would have been 100 recovered from TJ surgery.
Let’s hope his injury isn’t as serious and as long-term as it seems at this point – it’d be nice to see him continue to develop and be in position to help out our bullpen in 2009 and beyond.
Just my 2 cents.
The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.
I looked into this further. He isn’t injured at the moment, he just had a minor setback in his rehab that put him behind schedule for winter ball. They slowed him down a bit, but at that point, it didn’t make sense to get him geared up for just the last two weeks of winter ball, rather than just letting him get more rest in. If pitchers and catchers were reporting this week, he’d be there, getting ready to pitch.
I think it’s prudent not to bank on Westbrook returning at full strength
Burn on, big river, burn on...
by Turkmenbashi on Jan 9, 2009 11:28 AM EST up reply actions
Right. Isn’t Pavano, even with the maximum incentive package, cheaper than Byrd straight up?
"Lotta heart in Cleveland." - Ian Hunter
by Denver Tribe Fan on Jan 8, 2009 8:20 PM EST up reply actions
Do you have a link? Thanks.
Yankees and Red Sox - MLB's Axis of Evil
(And ESPN is right in the middle)
Whatever happend to the honor system? :-)
But seriously, thanks for linking to the quote. I saw it as I was falling asleep, so I decided to post about it with my one last waking breath.
by world dictator on Jan 10, 2009 2:34 PM EST up reply actions
“When you’re down, you expect your organization to pick you up, not kick you when you’re down,” Pavano said. “I’ve had to pick myself up quite a few times the last four years.”
His keyboard looks different from all of ours. Haven’t you figured that out by now?
"Lotta heart in Cleveland." - Ian Hunter
by Denver Tribe Fan on Jan 9, 2009 9:30 PM EST up reply actions
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