Valentine, Acta or Fryman
Hoynsie says those three are in the final mix. Might be more, including Don Mattingly although that might be problematic whilst the Dodgers are still in the playoffs. No mention of Lovullo.
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mjmarble
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It will suck if Mattingly is our manager. I really, really don’t want to be in a position where I need Mattingly to succeed.
Il faut d'abord durer.
I would enjoy Mattingly…. if he does a good job.
In the new Geico commercial, Marte sings "Let me be myself" on Wedge's front lawn (with the cavemen).
by V-Mart Shopper on Oct 19, 2009 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
That he does a good job…. and I appreciated him as a player. If he’s the best man for the job, then bring him in. I can’t see how people can be upset about that. And if he does a good job and we win, how can a person be unhappy with that.
In the new Geico commercial, Marte sings "Let me be myself" on Wedge's front lawn (with the cavemen).
by V-Mart Shopper on Oct 19, 2009 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Because he used to be a Yankee? It’s not like he even won a world series. I just don’t get that.
In the new Geico commercial, Marte sings "Let me be myself" on Wedge's front lawn (with the cavemen).
by V-Mart Shopper on Oct 19, 2009 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions
There actually would be something cool about Mattingly enjoying more success as an Indian than as a Yankee.
You’re missing the point about what I was saying. They are complaining that we might need to “look to Mattingly” to help us succeed, and that that is a tragedy of some kind. My point is, if we succeed who cares who we looked to to do it?
And it was also about his fielding at first base.
In the new Geico commercial, Marte sings "Let me be myself" on Wedge's front lawn (with the cavemen).
by V-Mart Shopper on Oct 19, 2009 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree with your basic point. However, you have yet to mention a single trait of Mattingly’s that has anything to do with being a good manager.
I never really claimed he was one. All I said was “I would enjoy Mattingly…. if he does a good job.”
In other words, I don’t care who he is if he ends up doing a good job. In contrast to the very bizarre posts (or which I thought were bizarre) I was responding to.
In the new Geico commercial, Marte sings "Let me be myself" on Wedge's front lawn (with the cavemen).
by V-Mart Shopper on Oct 19, 2009 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions
I had an idea that Shapiro wanted a manager who had really strong views on pitching. I’m not suggesting that Mattingly doesn’t, but it would surprise me if his expertise extended beyond hitting. But maybe the man best able to identify a good pitching coach is one who has never been too involved in the process.
Steel Nick
Valentine made almost $4 million as the Marines’ manager this year.
I assume this means Bobby V. is only interviewing because he wants a job back in the MLB, not because he thinks there’s a payday at the end of this.
My uncle says you've got a screw loose.
Your uncle molests collies.
by gorilla_baller on Oct 18, 2009 11:21 PM EDT reply actions
Fryman more likely finalist than Lovullo, although he has limited managerial experience. Some mention that Hargrove could be bench coach if the manager is relatively inexperienced.
I also heard the name Chris Chambliss mentioned as another coach if Fryman is hired; he was Fryman’s manager as a minor leaguer in the Detroit system. He’s well-known as the hitting coach of the Yankees in the 90’s and is currently the AAA manager for the White Sox.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 19, 2009 8:24 AM EDT up reply actions
So there are at least six names on the list that I haven’t heard. I do know that names not on the list are former manager Mike Hargrove, Yankees bench coach Tony Pena, Buck Showalter, and Phil Garner. Hargrove could end up being a bench coach if the team hires a younger manager.
Nice try, but I’m afraid neither I nor anyone on this site has ever heard of this “Terry Pluto.” If you were going to make someone up, you could have thought up a less ridiculous name.
Steel Nick
by nickjs21 on Oct 19, 2009 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Is this somehow funnier/more worth watching than the first 20 seconds imply? That’s all I could deal with.
Il faut d'abord durer.
That whole video was pretty incredible. Imagine having a conversation with that guy. Wow.
by supermarioelia on Oct 20, 2009 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Hah, check out his other youtube videos….he’s like Ohio’s version of Michael Moore.
by supermarioelia on Oct 20, 2009 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions
That guy would’ve dominated the 90s lineup quiz game.
by supermarioelia on Oct 20, 2009 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions
All of these would seem like hiring a “name” to me. Which is…just something, really. No point to noticing it.
I think Fryman might be more than that if they really like what he’s been doing with the younger guys. And palcal’s mention of Grover possibly being a bench coach is very interesting.
Chugga-chugga chugga-chugga, Choo Choo!
Just so long as he has no input on pitching…
by stuart dean on Oct 19, 2009 7:24 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I have no reason to think the Indians would hire Hargrove as bench coach, or that Hargrove would accept it, or that anyone has mentioned it.
I’ve seen in mentioned by both Terry Pluto and Paul Cousineau.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 19, 2009 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions
paul, while i love him, is not really any more of a source than you or i. besides, he’s using the pluto reference as his point of departure when considering it.
Yes, no disrespect to him—I can’t imagine he’d take it that way—but he’s not an insider, and him saying he heard it from Pluto does not add a second source.
Steel Nick
Agreed, although I can speak a little in Paul’s defense. Like Paul, I am not an insider, but that doesn’t mean I don’t have legit sources who provide useful information and insights from time to time. Like Tony, Paul is probably better connected than I am, but unlike Tony, Paul is probably discreet and realistic about his sources.
I was speaking of the “someone has mentioned it”, not necessarily that it was a source with insider knowledge.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 19, 2009 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions
What Brick says is right…Pluto had the first mention of who was and who was not on the list and noted that Grover could be the bench coach.
The Chambliss thing was just interesting because I remembered the B-Pro interview with Laurila that Fryman did and thought it was interesting that Chambliss was mentioned. That led to the notion that surrounding a guy like Fryman with veteran coaches with more experience (Grover, Chambliss, etc.) was an interesting concept.
by The DiaTriber on Oct 19, 2009 9:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Duties of bench coach:
(1) In charge of coffee machine.
(2) Takes naps on bench until manager makes a mistake.
(3) Points out mistakes to manager.
(4) Maintain a presence in hotel lounge.
I simply mean that he would be a “name” in the sense that I’ve heard of them and they have a track record. Which, honestly, would be kind of nice, since we don’t really know what managers can do anyway.
It would be hard for them to hire someone less well known than Acta. I mean, what, just randomly you’re going to dig up the bench coach for the Padres who never played in the majors?
Maybe we still hire someone no-one has ever heard of, but that’s what I was expecting. Like, your new Indians manager, former Tulsa Drillers manager, Ron Gideon.
Speaking of possible managers, he’s a question from this Sunday’s Hey Hoynsie:
I was sorry to see Omar Vizquel absent from your list of possible managerial candidates. Since fan unrest essentially drove the Indians to fire Eric Wedge, it just makes sense to pick the most popular Indian in memory for the job. Fans would love him as the Tribe’s first player-manager since Frank Robinson. I think major-league managing experience is overrated for the kind of team the Indians are going to field in 2010.
Yes, picking the most popular former Indian in order to please the fans is a great way to hire a manager. Besides the stupidity of the suggestion, hasn’t this person figured out yet that Dolan and Shapiro aren’t going to make their moves based on what the fans want?
Oh come on Brad. Why not?!?
He could be player/manager too. Can’t they just do what the garden variety fan wants for once??
-Erik
huh. i thought fryman way early on but figured it was too soon for him. that maybe he’d be our next next manager….
Fryman seems like a taller Wedge to me. And not really in a bad way. The same thought process, the same soundbites, the same attitude. More Marte.
Steel Nick
You know, I think they wouldn’t even consider Fryman if he hadn’t impressed them with being able to communicate with players of all backgrounds and personalities. You’d think at this point, they wouldn’t feel they can compromise on that.
Yeah, it seems to me that the next manager has to be able to deal with a team full of disparate personalities instead of trying to mold those disparate personalities into what he feels to be the correct mindset. That’s why I think they’re going to hire someone that has managed before, and has a track record of dealing well with major-league egos.
Yeah. Rickey and Bobby Bo in ’99.
The once and future
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Oct 19, 2009 9:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Isn’t Bobby Bonilla still getting paid? Hawk Harrelson traded him away from the White Sox. I’ll always like Bo for that.
That’s the rumor, but I’ve only heard it here. And I’m not going to Cot’s if you’re not.
The once and future
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Oct 19, 2009 9:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Can’t find his current contract (my attentions are divided), but here’s the start to his big-league career:
July 11, 1981: Signed by Pirates as amateur free agent. December 10, 1985: Drafted by White Sox from Pirates in rule 5 draft. July 23, 1986: Traded by White Sox to Pirates for Jose DeLeon.
Jose DeLeon was a pretty promising pitcher, but Bonilla was 23 years old, with a good first season under his belt in Chicago.
Yea, its just funny to think that 1.1 million for the next 25 years was more intriguing to the Mets than paying his final year salary of 5.5 million.
Bobby V looks like a guy I bought a car from. I’m just not crazy about him. But I’m not crazy about anyone. I don’t even know enough about about the styles of the other candidates.
But hey, let’s get to know Bobby’s Way.
Steel Nick
Hoynes isn’t saying those are the 3 finalists, only that they are three names among the unknown number of finalists
It’s an old corporate ploy where they float a trial balloon. In this case, the trial balloon contains 3 choices. 2 of those choices have very obvious limitations associated to them. The audience draws the obvious conclusion as to the best choice. Then, when the choice is Acta, the audience is more likely to accept it by thinking the alternatives were less deserving. It circumvents a lot of the “why didn’t we hire Omar” questions.
Why Fryman? I liked and admired him as a player…he was a classy guy. But if you pick from inside the organization and pass over Lovullo to grab Fryman, why not consider Sarbaugh instead? He’s had a superb record at every level he’s managed.
I know it’s important to fill the job as early as possible, but there are some good coaches on teams still in the playoffs that might be better choices than the three mentioned above. Why not wait until the W.S. is over to interview? Come on, we’re not going to contend in 2010. What’s the hurry?
If you believe it's just a game, you're also probably wondering why Santa keeps skipping your house every year.
You know they interview these people, right? It’snot like they just picked Fryman to pass over Lovullo or Sarbaugh, willy nilly.
Steel Nick
Agree. My guess with Sarbaugh is that he would be better suited with the development of minor leaguers, and thus they want to keep him where he is.
by MooneysRebellion on Oct 19, 2009 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions
Um, I think I mentioned “interview” in my post. Why are you asking if I know that?
If you believe it's just a game, you're also probably wondering why Santa keeps skipping your house every year.
by LeftyCatcher on Oct 19, 2009 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Because it’s easy to assume that if two men go into an interview and one comes out favored over the other, the interview probably had something to do with it. You’re asking why Fryman is favored over others in the system, and I’m speculating that he gave an impressive interview.
Your question was almost rhetorical, just like most of our discussions during the managerial search. We’ll never know what was said or what kind of opinions were formed during the research and interview process, only who came out on top.
Steel Nick
I like the idea of Fryman somewhere on the staff, though not necessarily as manager. I also wonder why you never hear Sarbaugh’s name. Of the coaches in our minor league system, he seems far and away to have had the most success.
Maybe they expect he (as manager) will be working with Chisenhall at 3b very soon, and they like how he helped him along so far? But with a line of reasoning like that, perhaps the new manager should hire Fryman as a coach.
In the new Geico commercial, Marte sings "Let me be myself" on Wedge's front lawn (with the cavemen).
by V-Mart Shopper on Oct 19, 2009 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Seems odd to hire a manager based on one player (nobody say Ichiro).
If in fact Fryman gets passed over, I don’t mind him becoming a coach provided he’s qualified. Is there a history of men interviewing for a manager’s job and being asked to fill in as part of the winner’s coaching staff? Or them accepting? I usually don’t follow the process that closely. I don’t think anyone who interviewed in Seattle last year became part of the staff, and that’s as far as I can remember.
Steel Nick
Who hired the Lone Gunmen.
Want out of Cleveland? Easy - mess with LeBron's entourage.
by woodsmeister on Oct 19, 2009 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions
No one’s gonna really be free until nerd persecution ends.
Want out of Cleveland? Easy - mess with LeBron's entourage.
by woodsmeister on Oct 19, 2009 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions
I remember back in the summer I was totally calling for bobby valentine. So now I hope he becomes manager.
by I'd give my legs for Wegz on Oct 19, 2009 10:49 AM EDT reply actions
I was hoping for Davey Johnson. But in order I’d like to see:
1. Valentine
2. Acta
3. Fryman
With Valentine and Acta pretty close and Fryman way behind. I’m surprised he’s even on the short list.
I’m really not doing this to be an antagonist, I just really don’t know what’s so appealing about Valentine. I really can’t understand why someone would have Acta and Valentine so closely at the top of their list. They seem to be such opposite personalities. Can anyone who favors Valentine above the rest please explain it to me? I’m open to changing my mind.
Steel Nick
LOL!
In the new Geico commercial, Marte sings "Let me be myself" on Wedge's front lawn (with the cavemen).
by V-Mart Shopper on Oct 19, 2009 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions
What do you mean?
In the new Geico commercial, Marte sings "Let me be myself" on Wedge's front lawn (with the cavemen).
by V-Mart Shopper on Oct 19, 2009 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Don’t say “LOL” unless you are actually laughing out loud while typing, and then say “Legit LOL”. Text-speak = bad.
Well it was a ‘Legit-LOL,’ but what exactly does “text-speak = bad” mean? We are speaking here with text aren’t we?
In the new Geico commercial, Marte sings "Let me be myself" on Wedge's front lawn (with the cavemen).
by V-Mart Shopper on Oct 19, 2009 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Do 16-year-old girls also write LOTI?
And did they actually invent the internet, or did Gore?
In the new Geico commercial, Marte sings "Let me be myself" on Wedge's front lawn (with the cavemen).
by V-Mart Shopper on Oct 19, 2009 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t ever want to see another “Gore invented the Internet” joke ever again.
Want out of Cleveland? Easy - mess with LeBron's entourage.
by woodsmeister on Oct 19, 2009 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Sounds like “snopes” is grasping for straws, and true or not, it’s way too late for this joke/reference to ever be repealed…
In the new Geico commercial, Marte sings "Let me be myself" on Wedge's front lawn (with the cavemen).
by V-Mart Shopper on Oct 19, 2009 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, the way he phrased it makes the joke funny regardless of the actual facts behind his statement.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 19, 2009 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions
On any forum, there is an inverse relationship between the frequency of “LOL” and the quality of the discussion. By strongly discouraging the use of standardized moronic memes, we keep the quality of discussions higher.
Exactly!
In the new Geico commercial, Marte sings "Let me be myself" on Wedge's front lawn (with the cavemen).
by V-Mart Shopper on Oct 20, 2009 2:01 AM EDT up reply actions
Well, you two are entitled to your opinion on that, of course.
Now then, could you please send me the link to the internet forum that you moderate, which exhibits outstanding quality of intelligent discourse?
I’ll wait.
Sorry for the bad joke, Jay. I swear it sounded funny last night after drinks.
I think what I was going for is that using “LOL” is like using AVG, RBI, etc. It doesn’t make the user an idiot, but if everyone does it, we end up with bad baseball discussion.
Is this the whale section?
by sarcasmdave on Oct 20, 2009 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Valentine has an overall winning record as a manager, is very experience and not quite too old (I think he’s 59). Acta just seems like a smart dude, I’m not going to look for them but I seem to remember him giving quotes that sound promising.
And yes, I know that manager’s winning percentage doesn’t mean much and hiring retreads sort of sucks and all that. But I’d rather have one of those two guys than a pretty inexperienced Fryman.
My only beef with this is that every great manager was inexperienced at some point, and this team isn’t going anywhere next year. I’m not pushing for someone wet behind the ears, I just don’t place too much emphasis on experience.
Steel Nick
I normally agree and would rather an inexperienced guy. That’s the trend in the NFL that sort of started with the Steelers grabbing Mike Tomlin and having success after doing the same thing with Cowher and Noll.
But I just like Valentine, I think he’s been exposed to plenty of situations and different types of players and teams, especially since he’s been in Japan. And Acta, I’m pretty sure, has claimed to read Baseball Prospectus and other such things that make me think like he knows what he’s doing.
And with this team, I don’t know that they are in total rebuilding mode (well if they had held onto Lee, maybe they wouldn’t be), so I don’t want to go with a young inexperienced manager that grows with the team, ala Wedge, I want something different.
Valentine would bum me out. I was in NYC when he was managing the Mets and his self-love and need for attention is really, really exhausting. He’s no dummy so if he does get hired, hopefully he’s grown up.
Is it really out of the question that he’s matured, or that he would behave differently in a Mark Shapiro organization than he did in a Steve Phillips organization?
For that matter, why do we excuse Acta for that Nats’ poor performance, but we don’t excuse Valentine for only getting one playoff appearance with Phillips as the GM?
But I’m not saying I prefer an inexperienced guy. I don’t think I care about experience.
That’s the trend in the NFL
We have got to start banning all these NFL references.
And Acta, I’m pretty sure, has claimed to read Baseball Prospectus and other such things that make me think like he knows what he’s doing.
This made me LOTI.
Steel Nick
Yeah, just what this site needs, more things we can’t talk about, like general hiring trends in other sports as it pertains to this managerial search.
And I don’t understand 1. what LOTI stands for, and what about the last quote makes you do it.
But, back on topic, why do you want Fryman more than the other two guys?
I don’t. My general approach to this process is to be cautious and skeptical regarding any name that comes up until I get a better handle on what they would actually do for this team.
LOTI is Laughing On The Inside. Geeze, just because I made it up on the spot without any preceding explanation isn’t an excuse for not understanding it.
I love football. But this is not a football site, and bringing up football leads to long subthreads about football. Also! The structures of the two sports are incredibly different. We can’t necessarily apply something that works in football to baseball.
Steel Nick
And Acta, I’m pretty sure, has claimed to read Baseball Prospectus and other such things that make me think like he knows what he’s doing.
Having a take is okay but have defensible reasons for them. The above is only a half skip and a jump away from choosing a manager based upon what his favorite action figures may be.
I hope it was a suggestion of where proper placement might be found.
Steel Nick
by nickjs21 on Oct 19, 2009 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
What’s wrong with liking a manager because he’s claimed to read BP? That’s certainly relevant to baseball, so I don’t get your “action figure” analogy.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 19, 2009 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions
In reality, Manny Acta is a total stat-nerd manager and we would likely all swoon for him after a couple of pressers.
Steel Nick
I read that interview and didn’t get an impression of his being overly obsessed with stats. Aware of them, of course, but not much more.
Where did he claim to read BP?
SB: What’s your favorite blog?
MA: Squawking Baseball, of course. I read Baseball Prospectus a lot too. Will Carroll writes some of my favorite stuff. I also loved Mind Game.
Another article where he says smart things about stats.
Stealing: “We will run selectively. I think one of the things that doomed this club last year is that they were first in caught stealing. I am not going to be running all over the place just because 25,000 people in the stands are saying I am aggressive while people are getting thrown out on the bases. Not everybody will have a green light here. The guys who are going to run are the guys who are going to prove to me that they will be successful most of the time trying to steal a base.”
Bunting: "It’s been proven to me that a guy at first base with no outs has a better chance to score than a guy at second base with one out. That has been proven to me with millions of at-bats. I don’t like moving guys over from first to second unless the pitcher is up or it is real late in the game.
Here’s something else from Castrovince.
Two things about Acta that might appeal to the Indians: he’s a statistically minded manager who does not shy away from discussing and applying sabermetrics, and he’s a bilingual Dominican native who can develop a good relationship with Latin players.
Hire Manny!
Seems insane that anyone desiring to be a big league manager isn’t Rosetta Stone-ing nicely to pick up Spanish.
It’s really not that hard and it has to be a huge help.
Gammons once said “Manny Acta is a sabermetrics student and the only manager who ever dropped a VORP on me.” Of course, Gammons followed that up with “he has the worst team in baseball,” making the point that the SABR-happy teams weren’t doing that well in 2008.
SABR-happy teams stunk up the jernt in ’09, too.
by JulioBernazard on Oct 19, 2009 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions
does someone have this list?
or is this just what people say when oakland doesn’t make the playoffs?
For what it’s worth, the context of that discussion (in 2008) included Washington, Cleveland, Detroit, Oakland, Toronto, San Diego, Kansas City, Tampa Bay, Boston and Arizona.
I refuse to believe that KC is SABRmetric, and as proof I give you Yuniesky Betancourt and Jose Guillen.
Want out of Cleveland? Easy - mess with LeBron's entourage.
by woodsmeister on Oct 19, 2009 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, including KC in that list is pretty silly. I’ll bet Rob Neyer and Rany Jazeryli and Joe Posnanski would have a thing or two to say about that.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 19, 2009 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s becoming increasingly clear that SABR-happy is a euphemism for poor and/or bad.
by jakesinger777 on Oct 19, 2009 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I was thinking of CLE, OAK, and TB.
I can’t count BOS, because they fling too much cash around.
I don’t know anything about how ARI is building their team, but they sucked.
by JulioBernazard on Oct 19, 2009 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Using advanced statistics and having lots of cash are not mutually exclusive.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 19, 2009 11:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Werd. But any team that thinks Smoltzie can thrive in the AL East needs to re-crunch their numbers.
by JulioBernazard on Oct 20, 2009 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions
Considering how cheap they signed him for, it wasn’t a big risk. I certainly don’t think it was un-SABRmetric.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 20, 2009 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions
You dropped a VORP on me
Want out of Cleveland? Easy - mess with LeBron's entourage.
by woodsmeister on Oct 19, 2009 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I was just pointing out a trend in a different sport and explaining that normally I’m a big fan of hiring new people instead of retreads. I don’t think it was over the line or anything.
I don’t think it was either, you’re just unlucky to come on the tail of a rash of NFL references.
Steel Nick
solid infectious disease reference here.
Also, I missed the memo where H1N1 is referred to as “hiney”, but it’s happening.
by supermarioelia on Oct 19, 2009 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions
great point. And why not give an inexperienced guy a freebie year to get experience next year. The year is essentially a lost cause anyway. Let an inexperienced guy take his lumps with the rest of the team.
by MooneysRebellion on Oct 19, 2009 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions
How come when i suggest this everyone treats me as a moron, but the second someone older says it it becomes acceptable?
by ClevelandCrazy29 on Oct 19, 2009 9:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Correction: Martedom is the first step toward sainthood.
by gte619n on Oct 20, 2009 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions 8 recs
Nice.
Want out of Cleveland? Easy - mess with LeBron's entourage.
by woodsmeister on Oct 20, 2009 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions
If Marte ever gets released, this better become the banner for LGFT.com
by supermarioelia on Oct 20, 2009 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions
FRYMAN!
AhhhAHHHH!
CHAMPION OF THE NIGHT MAN!
AhhhhAHHHH!
Steel Nick
by nickjs21 on Oct 19, 2009 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Why Acta? The guy lost 200+ games with the Nationals what makes you believe that he will win more with another horrible team. I could see if he was going to New York where at least they have talent, but come on, we are talking about Cleveland, The CLEVELAND INDIANS!!!
by ClevelandCrazy29 on Oct 19, 2009 8:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Crazy, the reason the Nationals lost all those games is because they suck. Not because they had a bad manager.
The reason teams suck is hardly ever because of the manager. However, there is always a scapegoat. So you tell me why we would hire another teams scapegoat?
by ClevelandCrazy29 on Oct 19, 2009 9:47 PM EDT up reply actions
OH MY GOD WE’RE HIRING JIM BOWDEN?
The once and future
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Oct 19, 2009 9:48 PM EDT up reply actions
You’d hire him because he’s a good manager. A scapegoat isn’t the cause of bad fortune. It just takes the blame for it. See Leviticus 16:8.
Scapegoat: a goat upon whose head are symbolically placed the sins of the people after which he is sent into the wilderness in the biblical ceremony for Yom Kippur
2 a : one that bears the blame for others b : one that is the object of irrational hostility
When did i say scapegoat meant the cause of bad fortune? I said someone always has to be the scapegoat or someone who they can blame it on, regardless of if it is there fault or not.
by ClevelandCrazy29 on Oct 19, 2009 9:56 PM EDT up reply actions
If the reason teams suck aren’t always because of the manager, and that a manager isn’t always the cause of “bad fortune” then what does it matter if the person hired was fired from another managing position? By that logic it probably wasn’t his fault and there shouldn’t be any harm in taking a shot.
Because if he sucked due to the personel situation, how is cleveland going to make it any better. Are our players that much better than Washington’s?
by ClevelandCrazy29 on Oct 19, 2009 10:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, the Indians have better players. And also: The Nationals didn’t suck because of their manager. They sucked because the players weren’t very good.
Alright this is a stupid argument. You win, I lose. Obviously all you have wanted from me was for me to admit defeat and stick my head back into a hole.
by ClevelandCrazy29 on Oct 19, 2009 10:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Thats the thing, even when i try to do that it turns into a 5 on 1 and i began to fight a losing battle.
by ClevelandCrazy29 on Oct 19, 2009 10:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh, i know i was dogging the indians but it isn’t exactly the best time to feel good about them.
by ClevelandCrazy29 on Oct 19, 2009 10:19 PM EDT up reply actions
If our players continue to stink, I don’t think anyone is expecting that a “lucky miracle manager” is going to come in and somehow win with them despite their continuing failure as players. Nobody expects Manny Acta, Valentine, Fryman, or even Omar, to come in and win 100 games with a subpar Nationals-esque roster. We are not pointing out names of possible miracle-workers.
What we ARE expecting is that over the next few years, the current players will improve/develop, the roster will improve from trades, from within (minors prospects), from drafting, perhaps from signing free agent, etc and the new manager will be a good man to help this process along (that of helping develop the players/prospects), and then be in a position to win with an improved team and more competitive roster in a few years if all goes well. So we are naming names of people who perhaps might be good at doing this and know what they are doing as managers.
There’s not much science to it, but experience could be a big factor, and that certainly separates Acta from Omar, who’s never managed before.
In the new Geico commercial, Marte sings "Let me be myself" on Wedge's front lawn (with the cavemen).
by V-Mart Shopper on Oct 20, 2009 2:18 AM EDT up reply actions
All right, enough Nationals comparisons. This season was a disaster, but come on, the situation isn’t that bad.
by cleveland teamer on Oct 20, 2009 9:40 AM EDT up reply actions
I wasn’t “comparing with the Nationals,” I was trying to clarify for Cleveland Crazy29 why people took issue with his/her comment and why I (and likely others) do not agree that Omar is a better candidate than Acta. As much as I agree with those who disagreed with CCrazy29, it’s clear that CCrazy29 needed some explanation, and it wasn’t being provided. This was supposed to be helpful.
In the new Geico commercial, Marte sings "Let me be myself" on Wedge's front lawn (with the cavemen).
by V-Mart Shopper on Oct 20, 2009 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions
You said “why hire another team’s scapegoat?” – This question only makes logical sense if the asker is assuming that there is something wrong (or, to blame) about the other team’s scapegoat. If not… Then why NOT hire another team’s scapegoat? He hasn’t been blamed for anything in Cleveland (yet)…
In the new Geico commercial, Marte sings "Let me be myself" on Wedge's front lawn (with the cavemen).
by V-Mart Shopper on Oct 20, 2009 2:13 AM EDT up reply actions
I believe the Indians decided to fire Wedge on Yom Kippur, as it happens.
by Jay on Oct 19, 2009 11:08 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Do i want to even ask why my post got deleted? Is this not the site where “personal opinions” count. It appears to me this site is becoming a social hierarchy where the stronger guys opinions get considered but the weak get stomped. Deleting my question was un-called for.
by ClevelandCrazy29 on Oct 19, 2009 9:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Not sure what you’re talking about. Your user account shows no sign of a comment being deleted today. It may be that it was deleted “downstream” — if we delete one comment, all the replies also get deleted automatically, we have no choice in the matter. So if you reply to a comment with profanity in it, for example, odds are it will end up being deleted.
Or maybe it just didn’t post properly?
That was me. I accidentally said sh**. Although I was told I had a stick up my ass in a previous thread. I thought it would be OK.
Not including Tangy Old Mint?
Want out of Cleveland? Easy - mess with LeBron's entourage.
by woodsmeister on Oct 19, 2009 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Didn’t feel this was worth it’s own fanshot, and since this is about the next possible manager I wanted to pass this along
On Castrovince’s newest Q&A
Q: Why not bring back Hargrove to help train the many new players and bring in Alomar and Vizquel as new coaches?
Castro’s answer – I’ve got a better idea. Seek out a copy of the “1997 Indians: A Cleveland Sock-cess Story” DVD, pop it in and live out your nostalgia in the comfort of your own home. Just don’t kill your feel-good vibe by watching the last 15 minutes. Unless, that is, you find a director’s cut with an alternate ending.
by GoTribe028 on Oct 19, 2009 2:50 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Seriously. This is the crux of the Hargrove/Vizquel argument:
I have only ever heard of and recognize about three dozen names in the history of baseball, and since for me as a Clevelander the period after 1994 was when it became cool to watch baseball, why don’t we hire the only person/people I can think of that aren’t currently part of the organization?
Steel Nick
Let’s just rename the team the Cleveland Omars, let Omar be the player/manager/GM/coach/trainer/PR flack/beat reporter/organist/PA announcer and be done with it.
i will say, though, i hate to play into this game, but i do think robbie alomar would make a great coach of some kind.
Right, I mean there are former/current players who would be excellent managers, but the criteria used to determine that should be more substantial than ‘he was on _ team that we love’.
by jakesinger777 on Oct 19, 2009 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions
I am honestly shocked at this, from you. Robbie, with the head-first slides, with the appeals to scorer’s decisions, with the bitchy attitudes? If I had to pick a former Indian to be our next manager, he wouldn’t be in my top 100 choices. If I had to pick a former Indian to watch play a single game in his prime, he’d be first on my list.
coach of some kind
he struck me as one of those players who saw things in the game in a way others don’t. i always remember in ‘the comeback’ game when he was explaining to lofton something he saw about his hands in his swing…
Or, the way he bunted (and slid head first) every time there was a man on first with no outs. If he got out and moved the runner over (what usually happened) he got a sacrifice with no effect on the BA, but if he reached safely he got a free base hit.
If he did this “every time,” I think he’d have a hell of a lot more than 54 career sac-bunts with only a man on first base.
If I had to pick a former Indian to be our next manager, he wouldn’t be in my top 100 choices.
I’d like to see your 98, 99 and 100. George Hendrick should be on that list.
If I had to pick a former Indian to watch play a single game in his prime, he’d be first on my list.
Joe Jackson. The shoeless one, not the chinless one.
Just thinking of ones I’d actually seen before. Never enjoyed watching any player as much as Robbie. Having said that, he seems like an immature jerk.
All-time, Joe Jackson is a great pick, but maybe I’d go with Tris Speaker, or maybe Herb Score’s rookie year.
He looks so young.
The once and future
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Oct 19, 2009 9:45 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s fantastic — I wish Hoynes would have given that response to the question I posted above.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 19, 2009 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions
But Hoynes did give a good response, and one that was more to the point.
Yes, it’s fun to insult the asker of a dumb question, but it’s more productive to specify why it’s a bad idea.
Oh, I know. But it would have been funny and extremely unlike Hoynes.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 19, 2009 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions
how the heck is he going to coach away games from his mother’s basement? does “the internet” have that kind of range?
by Brick. on Oct 19, 2009 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I’m fine with Acta.
Case of the beet bandit. Missing beets from all over the farm, no footprints. Inside job. Mose in socks. Boom. Case closed. -Dwight Schrute
here’s something stupid. i don’t want someone like valentine to get all the credit if we get good again fast. i blame espn for this.
I really don’t care who gets the credit as long as the Indians are good again.
by Cols714 on Oct 19, 2009 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Agreed. That would be a very minor annoyance.
In fact, let’s not kid ourselves, if this happened, we’d find ways to credit Valentine, too.
And who knows, maybe Valentine actually would help. Big shocker that would be.
He ain’t Wedge, we already know that, I think.
I felt saying it was stupid implied that it was not a real concern. Annoyance is a gooder word. I think it can be assumed we all want to win whether a guy has a real or a fake mustache, regardless of which we prefer.
by Brick. on Oct 19, 2009 6:52 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
So … how about that Cliff Lee?
Damn shame we never got to the postseason with THAT guy in the rotation. Wow.
If we subbed in Cliff Lee’s ‘08 or ’09 in place of CC’s ’07, what kind of discussion do you think we would be having at the moment…
Chugga-chugga chugga-chugga, Choo Choo!
Or just substitute one CC 2009 playoff performance for one 2007 CC playoff performance. I’m pretty sure we’d be saying we don’t mind the Indians sucking this year because they won the WS in 2007.
We actually were 2–1 in C.C.’s starts, but with little help from C.C. himself. Insert “knows how to win” joke here.
On a related note, the following appeared in my inbox today. I am also sorry, StubHub. You have no idea the level of confusion that I suffered.
Chugga-chugga chugga-chugga, Choo Choo!
by USSChoo on Oct 19, 2009 8:30 PM EDT up reply actions 6 recs
Where do you want to sit?
Hey Jay,
Be there alongside your Detroit Tigers as they chase baseball immortality. Go to StubHub, where you’ll find a fantastic selection of tickets to every playoff game – so you experience the championship chase live and in person. Check it out. Go to StubHub and get the seats you want today.
bwaahahahahahah … those suckers blew it on the FINAL DAY OF THE SEASON ahahahahahha.
Resident Take the Football References One Step Too Far Guy
Not that anyone cares, but the reason I got that was because I bought 10 tickets to an Indians @ Tigers game on StubHub last season.
You don’t have to defend yourself to us, Jay. And for the record I found my original email as well, identical to yours. I wonder if it went out for all teams? If hiring Manny Acta as manager is baseball immortality, then do I need to purchase a ticket to witness it?
Chugga-chugga chugga-chugga, Choo Choo!
by USSChoo on Oct 20, 2009 12:00 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
StubHub offers tix for Mets, others
Associated Press
NEW YORK — Hey, Mets fans, that awful season was just a bad dream — if you believe StubHub.The company sent an e-mail Monday offering tickets for Mets’ playoff games.
….
StubHub said e-mails were sent to fans promoting several teams not in the postseason.
“This was due to an e-mail glitch,” spokeswoman Joellen Ferrer said in a statement. “We regret the error and apologize for any inconvenience or confusion this may have caused. Follow-up e-mails will be sent to every person that received the e-mail, notifying them of the error on our part. In no way does this affect any transactions that have taken place on StubHub.”
…
Ferrer said similar e-mails also were sent to Cubs fans. She was not sure of the identity of other teams whose supporters received e-mails.
Resident Take the Football References One Step Too Far Guy
As I was walking past Wrigley Field last night, I noticed the lights were on, and something was going on inside. All I could hear though, was the sound of an organ playing. Either the Cubs are playing or U2 is in town, I thought.
it was just wilson, talking to his dead girlfriend.
by Brick. on Oct 20, 2009 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I didn’t really mean it in my own defense, more just explaining that their sending me a Tigers promo in particular wasn’t a totally random malfunction.
Am I remembering 2007 wrong? I thought we were 1-2 in CC’s starts as he lost both starts against Beckett. He did get the win against NYY though, courtesy of being less awful than Wang.
Totally off topic here, but do you think the Indians would consider bringing Omar back as a way to possibly boost revenue?
by ClevelandCrazy29 on Oct 19, 2009 8:06 PM EDT reply actions
That’s to coach or manage.
To play? Maybe they would. I don’t know how many folks will buy tickets to see Omar bunt as a pinch-hitter, but who knows?
Just think about it though, besides the rookies, who exactly are the fans going to be excited to watch?
by ClevelandCrazy29 on Oct 19, 2009 8:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, my guess is most fans are looking forward to having new reasons to bash on Mark Shapiro and Mr Burns, and petition to have the new manager fired for not being Eric Wedge….er, whoever.
Myself I’m interested in seeing how Masterson, Laffey, and Huff either progress or regress as starting pitchers, how Westbrook will perform upon returning to the rotation, and just what the baseball wizards have in store for Fausto Carmona. Looking forward to having a healthy Grady Sizemore, anchored by Choo and possibly Michael Brantley. The eventual promotion of Carlos Santana…..I can honestly keep going, but I wont.
Plus I have a new found love for minor league baseball as the Clippers are only about a 45 minute drive from me
Believe it or not, most tickets are sold to people who are simply excited to go to a baseball game. The team’s reputation is secondary, fan promotions are tertiary, and individual player “attractions” are way, way down on the list.
In no way was i trying to sound like i went for the individual player " attractions", however many people do and i know from first hand experience that many people are not renewing season tickets due to the fact there is nothing to look forward to.
by ClevelandCrazy29 on Oct 19, 2009 9:41 PM EDT up reply actions
people are not renewing season tickets due to the fact there is nothing to look forward to.
But that also has nothing to do with star players, right? That is just success oriented. You can argue that they may dependent variables to a degree, but they are different things.
Chugga-chugga chugga-chugga, Choo Choo!
I agree completeley. I’m not suggesting that it’s due to star players. It is 100% success oriented but, i am suggesting that maybe if we brought Omar back it would give some fans a symbol of what used to be and bring a few more fans to the games. Thats all, nothing more, nothing less.
by ClevelandCrazy29 on Oct 19, 2009 10:18 PM EDT up reply actions
From a PR move, it could make sense, but the payoff isn’t going to be as big as providing a winning team.
Outside of that, Omar doesn’t bring enough to the table for even just one million that would actually improve the club.
I would love to see it provide both, but we all know that isn’t happening!
by ClevelandCrazy29 on Oct 19, 2009 10:21 PM EDT up reply actions
I think the sales folks would tell you with great confidence, the numbers don’t add up on making a move like that.
Yeah, you’re going to get Omar at a minimum of what, a million a year?
How many season ticket packages is that? Even at Diamond Box that’s 200 packages. More realistically, it’s a thousand packages.
Do we think a thousand people are going to find 1,100 dollars to spend on Indians season tickets because Omar appears? And then more on top of that to make it profitable?
I think we can safely put this to bed.
Haven’t you been calling for outside-the-box thinking? Sign Omar for a year. He won’t hurt at the box office. He surely can help younger players deal with the majors. If he’s at all successful—remember, there was a time when he wasn’t considered any better than Felix Fermin at shortstop—you keep him. He might be a disaster in the dugout. If he’s bad, then you have a PR problem in getting rid of him in 2011. But why not? That’s a rhetorical question because I know there are lots of reasons why not, but roll the dice. Maybe if he is a terrible manager it will help still this Cult of 1995.
If nothing else, hire Omar is unconventional thinking.
I don’t find signing Omar particularly outside-the-box. I don’tt hink anyone would find it very interesting; everyone just thinks they would.
Now, make Omar the player-manager. I could get down for that.
I guess i falied to realize we weren’t in kindergarten anymore. You guys had me fooled with all this mocking going on. I gotta admit it used to be funny when I was 5.
by ClevelandCrazy29 on Oct 20, 2009 10:01 PM EDT up reply actions
I am sorry that i was disrespectful, but you at least try to be respectful to me? Whether i am 2 or 22 it shouldn’t matter, we are all human and we all make mistakes.
by ClevelandCrazy29 on Oct 20, 2009 10:31 PM EDT up reply actions
interesting that 22 is the high water mark of age in your mind
Resident Take the Football References One Step Too Far Guy
I was just throwing numbers out there.
by ClevelandCrazy29 on Oct 21, 2009 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Not that this all of a sudden makes it worth it, but they’d probably do a good number on his jersey sales.
Also, what would happen to #13. DRAMA!
Chugga-chugga chugga-chugga, Choo Choo!
Personally, Omar being on the team impacts my likelihood to buy a Vizquel jersey not at all. It’s about .1% either way.
Il faut d'abord durer.
Well, that’s you. Someone who is also probably more interested in the jersey of someone who will be on the team for the next 3-4 years, at least. The casual fan would be a different story, the one who that move would be supposedly geared towards. But like I said, not really supporting such a move for that cause.
Chugga-chugga chugga-chugga, Choo Choo!
Once again why can suggesting Omar being a positive financial man and be treated like I have 2 noses and 4 thumbs but someone other than me can suggest it and they are treated as anyone else in the blog?
by ClevelandCrazy29 on Oct 20, 2009 10:03 PM EDT up reply actions
How much did Griffey’s return help the Mariners this season? I’m guessing it was very little.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 19, 2009 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions
With an infield of Peralt.a, Cabrer.a, Valbuen.a, LaPort.a and Santan.a, try to guess which managerial candidate would lead in the “can communicate effectively” competition?
LaPorta?
"You are an LGT success story" -- Jay
by Turkmenbashi on Oct 20, 2009 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m confused
"You are an LGT success story" -- Jay
by Turkmenbashi on Oct 20, 2009 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Mattingly.a ? Valentin.a ? Ok, I give up.
In the new Geico commercial, Marte sings "Let me be myself" on Wedge's front lawn (with the cavemen).
by V-Mart Shopper on Oct 20, 2009 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions
You know, I noticed that Ryan and Jay are the managers of this blog, but why are APV and afh4 only listed as authors?
Shouldn’t APV be the scouting director and afh4 be the bullpen coach?
by talonk on Oct 20, 2009 10:20 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
This way Ryan and Jay have all the authority while delegating all the responsibility to APV and afh4.
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