Acta, Lovullo, Valentine, Mattingly
According to Castrovince - To be more specific, Acta is interviewing today (Tuesday). Castrovince says Lovullo will be in on Friday. Valentine is on the list but it is unclear when he is interviewing. And the fourth, according to Shapiro, is busy at the moment (in the playoffs), from which Castrovince speculates given Mattingly's previous statements that it is the former Yankee firstbaseman.
3 months ago
APV
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Seems like Acta would have to be a favorite. I’d guess Mattingly being the wildcard.
by APV on Oct 20, 2009 4:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Valentine seems like he’d cost too much (although maybe not – he might be desperate enough to get back to MLB), and Lovullo seems like Eric Wedge v2.0
by APV on Oct 20, 2009 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
why do you feel Lovullo would be a Wedge v2.0? is it because he is from the our system or does he manage like Wedge?
Fan in Texas
by fanintexas on Oct 21, 2009 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This whole "Wedge v2.0 discussion needs to stop. Immediately.
Saying that something can be “Wedge v2.0” directly implies that we had a Wedge 1.0. In no way, shape or form was Wedge ever a production ready MLB manager. While he came to the league as E. Wedge 0.45 Alpha, he did manage to fix enough bugs to advance to Wedge v0.8; however, he never really reached a full release candidate.
Like the chat window in Gmail, we just learned to live with the bugs (bunts).
by gte619n on Oct 21, 2009 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
haha this did at all not go where i thought it would after reading the first sentence.
If you don't respect Aaron Laffey, I will fight you.
by Cap'n Snegiryov on Oct 23, 2009 8:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
*not at all go
still pretty bad syntax, but at least comprehendable
If you don't respect Aaron Laffey, I will fight you.
by Cap'n Snegiryov on Oct 23, 2009 8:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s just the idea that doing what we did last time (and I know, obviously Lovullo and Wedge are different), even if it isn’t really the same thing but only looks like it is, is unappealing to me. And I’m guessing I’m not alone in that perspective. Also, I do really feel like an outside voice would be a welcome addition.
by APV on Oct 21, 2009 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s nice that we’re suddenly tying this episode into the manager search.
Steel Nick
by nickjs21 on Oct 20, 2009 9:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wedge was the wild card. Won them over with his energy and leadership. And grit. And warmth and punch and clarity. Wait, which forum am I on?
by Jay on Oct 20, 2009 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It would be amazing if you actually did post on Cleveland.com as a completely different persona that fit in with the crowd there, to appease some sort of primal caps-lock loving portion of personality.
Il faut d'abord durer.
by CU Adam on Oct 21, 2009 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don’t follow. Is this some sort of cage match at the next WWE event? We can talk about this but not the NFL here?
"You are an LGT success story" -- Jay
by Turkmenbashi on Oct 20, 2009 4:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I have lost all capacity for generating humor on this website
"You are an LGT success story" -- Jay
by Turkmenbashi on Oct 20, 2009 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Should’ve went with a law firm joke.
Wait 'til next millennium!
by emd2k3 on Oct 20, 2009 8:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
BenJarvus Green Ellis?
Resident Take the Football References One Step Too Far Guy
by westbrook on Oct 21, 2009 12:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
how does castrovince know it’s not charlie manual
by Brick. on Oct 20, 2009 4:31 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Oof…I hope it is not Lovullo. I’m casting my lot with Acta.
by MooneysRebellion on Oct 20, 2009 4:32 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
not really. didn’t it take hodges or someone getting hurt to get him in there regularly?
by Brick. on Oct 20, 2009 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, but that was organizational directive.
by Jay on Oct 20, 2009 8:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would think so, considering his apparent intelligence.
LGT's resident moderate Yankee hating fan.
by Joe. on Oct 21, 2009 3:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
As long as he doesn’t turn into a pillar of salt, we’ll be ok.
by talonk on Oct 21, 2009 7:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Anyone know if Acta has managerial experience in any of the Caribbean Winter Leagues?
by APV on Oct 20, 2009 4:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
man, i feel like this is a joke that i am missing. anyway, here’s this:
Acta managed for three years in the Dominican Winter League: in his first year he made the playoffs managing the Estrellas, and he spent the last two seasons at the helm of the nation’s most popular and successful team, the Licey Tigers. Acta won the League’s championship and Caribbean World Series in his first year with the Tigers, and lost a seven game Final Series against the Cibao Eagles this past January.
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=3920
by Brick. on Oct 20, 2009 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks – I was just curious how much he had gotten around the managerial circuit, particularly in Caribbean
by APV on Oct 20, 2009 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ah. glad to help. i had looked this up before acutally, i thought because of some conversation here, so i wasn’t sure if you were referencing said conversation somehow , but it looks like i never mentioned it so there was no conversation other than the imaginary one in my head.
by Brick. on Oct 20, 2009 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
there was no conversation other than the imaginary one in my head
I find these are often some of the best ones
by APV on Oct 20, 2009 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I find these are often some of the best ones
I agree
by APV on Oct 20, 2009 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Insert obligatory “I see what you did here” line
by stuart dean on Oct 20, 2009 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are you talking to Adam, or Adam?
Steel Nick
by nickjs21 on Oct 20, 2009 9:39 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
somehow I knew you’d be posting on this topic
by talonk on Oct 21, 2009 7:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just wondering….this has nothing to do with my personal preference, but Castrovince mentions Mattingly as the Dodgers hitting coach…..isn’t he the bench coach, or was Castro right?
by GoTribe028 on Oct 20, 2009 4:54 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Nope, hitting coach. He was Torre’s bench coach in 2007, though.
by FredOx on Oct 20, 2009 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ah, I see said the blind man
Thanks!
by GoTribe028 on Oct 20, 2009 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Aren’t Garth Iorg and Willie Upshaw available?
Valentine
Acta
Lovullo
Iorg
Upshaw
Mattingly
by stuart dean on Oct 20, 2009 4:55 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Acta: as the anti-Wedge?
Players Wish Acta Had Been More Stern
I wonder if this URL is available?
by stuart dean on Oct 20, 2009 5:09 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Sounds like he needs an angry bench coach
by APV on Oct 20, 2009 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He’ll be calling Hoynzie any minute…
by stuart dean on Oct 20, 2009 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tony Lastoria’s twitter page:
http://twitter.com/tlastoria/statuses/5026898588
So according to him Fryman isn’t one of the finalists.
by JP_Frost on Oct 20, 2009 5:16 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Maybe he took himself out of the running, siting his commitments to Mahoning Valley?
by GoTribe028 on Oct 20, 2009 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he knows that he’s in line to get the akron job when sarbaugh moves on. why would he leave with a chance to manage such a proven winner?
by Brick. on Oct 20, 2009 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also according to Castrovince, the 4 finalists are Valentine, Mattingly, Acta, and Luvollo. He says the “internal candidate” being talked about lately was not actually Fryman as a finalist but Luvollo as a finalist. Maybe Fryman had a phone interview only…
In the new Geico commercial, Marte sings "Let me be myself" on Wedge's front lawn (with the cavemen).
by V-Mart Shopper on Oct 20, 2009 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That was always the case, it would seem.
Steel Nick
by nickjs21 on Oct 20, 2009 9:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m curious — this is not a criticism or a challenge: what is it about acta that seems to have won over the majority of the regulars here on LGT? The more i read about him, the more I like him, too, but he’s the early leader in the clubhouse by a large margin in the poll and many of the comments are decidedly “pro-acta” on here. Anyone care to extol his virtues to someone who is trying desperately to form an opinion?
by Ockus_NYC on Oct 20, 2009 5:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
He thinks bunting is usually stupid. That’s basically it.
by Jay on Oct 20, 2009 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Really though, isn’t that enough?
LGT's resident moderate Yankee hating fan.
by Joe. on Oct 21, 2009 3:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Um, well, isn’t that kind of like asking whether Shapiro’s obvious intellectual strengths are enough?
by Jay on Oct 21, 2009 5:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
In fairness, I voted twice.
The once and future
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Oct 20, 2009 6:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
“pro-acta” sounds like some kind of facial wash.
by mixmasterasia on Oct 20, 2009 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Anything Diddy promotes, I’m on board with.
I’m sold, Acta is the man.
by JRontherim on Oct 20, 2009 9:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Generally he just comes off as a smart guy with sound baseball understanding. Maybe it’s bias, but anytime a player/coach/manager admits to understanding some of the more advanced stats, they’ll get points from me.
Other than that, I have very few reasons to back up why I wouldn’t mind Acta getting the job.
by JP_Frost on Oct 20, 2009 7:01 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
for me, it’s these things:
1. he’s an outsider.
2. he’s the only bilingual candidate, as far as i know (well, i suppose bobby V might know some japanese)
3. he is clearly an intelligent guy, and isn’t afraid of using new information. he’s also got some background in scouting and talent evaluation.
4. none of the other finalists are clearly superior talent evaluators. this is the organization’s biggest need, and i think we really need a guy who can bring this perspective to the table. however, it doesn’t look like any of our choices for manager can be that guy, so for the preceding reasons, i think acta is the best of the bunch.
If you don't respect Aaron Laffey, I will fight you.
by Cap'n Snegiryov on Oct 21, 2009 8:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jay, this thought just occurred to me this morning. Perhaps Shapiro’s belief over the past few years was that Wedge was his "old baseball mind" personnel guy and that’s why Wedge had such a large role in personnel decisions? Perhaps Farrell and Huntington left not only because of Antonetti’s position as the eventual successor but also because they disagreed with Wedge and Shapiro kept listening to Wedge?
Relatedly, it seems to me that the hiring of a new manager is likely to signal some of the Indians intentions about the direction of the franchise going forward. Viewed in that light, the differences between Bobby Valentine and Manny Acta are pretty striking, right? I’m making the assumption here that Valentine’s far less familiar with stats than Acta.
Me, from the Fire Shapiro thread, this morning. I moved it here after being asked. Thoughts?
by NickFantana on Oct 20, 2009 7:19 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I think Huntington left because he found somewhere he could be a GM. That’s got to be the ultimate goal for most people. I don’t think it really said much about the Indians as an organization to be honest.
LGT's resident moderate Yankee hating fan.
by Joe. on Oct 21, 2009 3:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was just watching Baseball Tonight (yeah, I know), and I can only hope Valentine gets alot of money for being on that show, because if that’s representative of his baseball philosphy, he’s definately out of the race for me.
Mariano Rivera is the best pitcher ever? Really?
by JP_Frost on Oct 20, 2009 7:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
What I took away from that was two comments he made:
1) You have to put players in a position where they can best succeed (I wish I could remember what he was referring to as I was on a treadmill, but that seemed astute if at the same time, somewhat fundamental; all I could think about was Garko in the outfield)
2) When discussing Rivera… admittedly I did NOT realize it was a discussion about best pitcher ever, I assumed it was best pitcher in the postseason. That said, he kept carping on if pitchers could just somehow harness late movement, late movement, he must have said that 4 times. Pitchers who have numerous pitchers but don’t have late movement just can’t compare to the a one-pitch pitcher that always has that late movement.
Anyway, hardly anything really noteworthy. But I came away feeling pretty good about him.
by cheech99 on Oct 20, 2009 8:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, to me he didn’t come off as terribly smart, but noone does on that program, so maybe I shouldn’t read too much into it.
by JP_Frost on Oct 20, 2009 8:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So, he wouldn’t have recommended we trade for Carlos Carrasco, eh?
by Toxicadam on Oct 21, 2009 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hm. I’d go:
1.) Valentine
2.) Acta
3.) Mattingly
4.) Lovullo
Really want someone out of the organization. I want to like Acta, but just can’t get totally convinced on him. Mattingly is really really intriguing. I’d want him to say something like the Yankees suck before we hired him.
by Ryan Kelsey on Oct 20, 2009 9:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The SBN Nats site is reporting that the Nats have asked permission to talk with Donnie Baseball.
by SuddenSam on Oct 20, 2009 9:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The site also has a photo of Acta arguing with C.B. Bucknor.
by SuddenSam on Oct 20, 2009 9:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Resident Take the Football References One Step Too Far Guy
by westbrook on Oct 21, 2009 12:38 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
“This is how many calls you’ve gotten right since 2005.”
Steel Nick
by nickjs21 on Oct 21, 2009 5:10 AM EDT up reply actions 25 recs
awesome
Resident Take the Football References One Step Too Far Guy
by westbrook on Oct 21, 2009 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m thinking of joining under another name so I can re-recc…
by stuart dean on Oct 21, 2009 7:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
CB Bucknor was in line to work the World Series for the first time this year. But he missed two calls in Game 1 of the division series between the Red Sox and Angels, damaging his chance to get picked, one of the three people said.
Resident Take the Football References One Step Too Far Guy
by westbrook on Oct 22, 2009 9:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How can anyone look so calm, talking with Bucknor? You can’t bring an index finger to a Bucknor fight, you need dirt, second base, anything handy at all you can throw on the field.
by MTF on Oct 21, 2009 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This was just him giving Bucknor the lineup card. Saying, “try not to screw this game up to badly”
by Ryan Kelsey on Oct 21, 2009 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was in the car and heard Greg Brinda (I know. I know.) reporting on Acta’s “press conference.” I expected Brinda to be a little wary of someone like Acta, but instead he came away very impressed and said he has to think Acta is the favorite.
Steel Nick
by nickjs21 on Oct 20, 2009 9:44 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
…about the Acta interview and press conference. He says the right things and sounds like he’d really like to manage the team. It says he spent a lot of time watching Indians games after he got fired because he knew there would likely be a job opening… I find this funny.
by baerga1 on Oct 21, 2009 2:21 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The guy’s W-L record is 94 games under .500, of course he’s going to jump at any chance.
It was pretty obvious that everyone in the industry knew Wedge was a goner. People went out of there way to say nice things about him for weeks ahead. It’s a small industry, everyone knows everyone.
by Jay on Oct 21, 2009 5:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m torn between Acta and Mattingly but I admittedly don’t know much when it comes to managers. On the one hand, we have a manager that actually believes in advanced baseball statistics and on the other hand we have a manager that would probably help the offense a lot. Still, I think I prefer Acta.
LGT's resident moderate Yankee hating fan.
by Joe. on Oct 21, 2009 3:13 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Our offense doesn’t really need the help. I still think there’s a good chance Shelton will be back.
by Jay on Oct 21, 2009 5:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I still really want to know who these guys want as pitching coach. We know it’s a really important part of all this.
Steel Nick
by nickjs21 on Oct 21, 2009 5:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You’re living in the past. This Indians’ offense needs help. They’re no longer a top-tive offense. They may also need some rehabilitation from the Wedge “quality at bat” indoctrinations.
by odradek on Oct 21, 2009 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Quality at bats are actually good.
Steel Nick
by nickjs21 on Oct 21, 2009 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sometimes they are good. For certain players they are excellent. I think some players don’t perform well in such mandated situations. Would Vladimir Guerrero need to improve the quality of his at bats? Some players—Jhonny comes to mind—seem to suffer from the various voices, and swing at crap while letting thigh-high fastballs pass.
by odradek on Oct 21, 2009 8:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, Guerrero’s at bats in ALCS game 1 and 2 looked and were absolutely horrible. They looked much improved in game 3.
In the new Geico commercial, Marte sings "Let me be myself" on Wedge's front lawn (with the cavemen).
by V-Mart Shopper on Oct 21, 2009 9:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Vlad’s on the downslope. I’ve heard that he’s hit homeruns on balls that bounced in front of the plate. He was an extraordinary bad-ball hitter in his prime.
by odradek on Oct 21, 2009 9:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Vlad is a very unusual hitter. Most hitters wouldn’t be successful with his approach.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 21, 2009 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Absolutely. But he would have suffered if he had been subjected to a “quality at bat” regimen.
Casey Blake came up in the NLCS tonight with the bases loaded and two outs. I watched with amusement because I’ve seen this one before. Casey fouled off a few pitches to the right side. He kept stepping out of the box, jutting out his chin, and then gets back in to foul off a few more. “What a battle,” says the witless announcer. As if Blake were doing anything other than prolonging the inevitable (ground out to short). As if his fouling off pitches were somehow heroic. Wouldn’t it be better to have Vlad Guerrero come up with the bases loaded and hit a bouncing fastball to right center?
I understand that “quality at bats” means not doing anything stupid like swinging at a 3-0 pitch, but I think there’s a limit to the micro victories attendant to “quality at bats.”
by odradek on Oct 22, 2009 1:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I turned it off. I actually sort of like the Phillies, though I’m getting more and more frustrated watching Lee just light up the National League for someone else, but it was too painful to watch Blake do that.
Il faut d'abord durer.
by CU Adam on Oct 22, 2009 1:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So… What would you have Blake do instead? Hit a home run? Brilliant strategy. Why didn’t Wedge ever tell his guys that?
Steel Nick
by nickjs21 on Oct 22, 2009 5:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not comparing Blake to Guerrero. I’m comparing their styles. Vlad is clearly a much better hitter, or was before his knees went. I’d rather have a guy who swings at a lousy pitch and hits a double than a guy who puts up a quality at bat and grounds out to short.
by odradek on Oct 23, 2009 12:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ok. But is Vlad a better hitter because he’s such a wild swinger, or is he just a rare player who has had a lot of success going after pitches he shouldn’t?
I just don’t see how it’s bad if a guy’s approach at the plate is to wait for a good pitch to hit. Whether he has the talent to then squarely hit it is not what we’re debating.
Steel Nick
by nickjs21 on Oct 23, 2009 5:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My argument is that Vlad can get away with his incredibly awful approach at the plate because of his incredibly amazing knack of putting the bat on the ball.
Chugga-chugga chugga-chugga, Choo Choo!
by USSChoo on Oct 23, 2009 6:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But his ‘approach’ looked downright terrible in game 1 and 2 (he was made to look like a little leaguer), and I notice that in game 3 and certainly last night in game 5 his approach was much better than it was in games 1 and 2. A big disparity in the results games 1&2 vs. other games this series.
In the new Geico commercial, Marte sings "Let me be myself" on Wedge's front lawn (with the cavemen).
by V-Mart Shopper on Oct 23, 2009 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right, it is fair to see how his approach looked, but I’m doubting that Vlad had significantly changed that approach. The thing about being a free swinger is, when you look bad, you look really really bad.
Chugga-chugga chugga-chugga, Choo Choo!
by USSChoo on Oct 23, 2009 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Vlad is a rare player who is successful going after pitches he shouldn’t. I’m saying I don’t really care that much if a guy waits for a good pitch to hit if he doesn’t hit it well anyways.
I understand there is some incremental benefit, but it is not in and of itself some great accomplishment. It’s not bad to do it that way, but you shouldn’t expect a medal for it if you don’t hit (or walk) in the end.
by odradek on Oct 23, 2009 9:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the Indians and Wedge in particular are guilty of overrating the approach over the result in exactly this way. The Blake worship.
by Jay on Oct 23, 2009 9:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’d rather have a guy who swings at a lousy pitch and hits a double than a guy who puts up a quality at bat and grounds out to short.
Obviously. Any manager would agree. But the point is that Vlad is an outlier; the majority of baseball players get better results by putting up a quality at-bat and waiting for a good pitch to hit rather than swinging at lousy pitches. So there is nothing wrong with wanting players to put up quality at-bats. As with almost everything, there are always a few people who go against the norm, but just because that approach works for Vlad doesn’t mean it’s a good approach for most hitters.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 23, 2009 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s somewhat like the discussion we’re having somewhere else re: Blake and our admiration for a player who has to try a little bit harder than those with a higher degree of ability and natural talent.
Vlad can crush a ball that the catcher is preparing to block/dive for. Blake needs to work the count and take a lot of close pitches to make sure he gets a much easier pitch to drive. Even then he doesn’t always smack it like Vlad will, but the point is the path to Vlad’s results is not to hack, it’s to make sure you’re getting a pitch more suitable to your abilities (down the middle, in your zone).
There’s a bit going on in the background right now so I hope this isn’t massively confusing.
Steel Nick
by nickjs21 on Oct 23, 2009 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the argument is (or atleast the one I would make) that it is better to teach to a person’s strengths rather than stubbornly try to mold that player against their natural strengths.
Did the Indians under Eric Wedge stress a “specific” type of approach to the game (maybe one statistically backed up as on average being the approach that garnered the best results) and dogmatically ignored the differences in abilities they had to work with? I don’t know really. I don’t think Victor Martinez fit the casey blake mold per se. Though it can be argued that playing time decisions were effected by this (specifically Andy Marte vs. Casey Blake/Jason Michaels/Franklin Gutz). In the grand scheme of things there is a benefit to the team that can tire out the opposing starting pitcher quicker by running up pitch counts, so in assembling a team on a tight budget it can be a shortcut to improving an overall offensive production. Get that starter out of their earlier and hit the bullpen.
by hans on Oct 23, 2009 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And now I see all of this is said below, so yeah, milk steak.
by hans on Oct 23, 2009 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
it is better to teach to a person’s strengths rather than stubbornly try to mold that player against their natural strengths.
That seems to be true, but the goal here isn’t some theoretical optimization, it’s to be a major leaguer. Once you conclude that playing to a hitter’s strengths isn’t going to result in his being a major leaguer, you have to abandon that. This is true even if strength-playing is generally the better strategy.
Let’s say that there’s an 80% chance that strength-playing will result in better overall hitting than approach-rebuilding. However, that “better” overall result is going to leave the player at replacement level or worse. The approach-rebuilding likely will make him even worse than that, but there is still some chance that it will make him far better, and possibly a viable major leaguer. And you can’t know until you try.
by Jay on Oct 23, 2009 7:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My point is, Casey Blake is not Vlad Guerrero, and that’s not Wedge’s fault.
For what it’s worth, Vlad is an outlier and a pretty bad example for what our hitters should aspire to be.
Steel Nick
by nickjs21 on Oct 22, 2009 5:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Indians hitters should aspire to hit the ball. Blake is all process. Fouling off pitches, stepping out. You knew what the result would be, and it wouldn’t result in a hit.
by odradek on Oct 23, 2009 12:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So you’re actually saying the Indians’ goal at the plate is to not hit the ball. Just want to say that out loud.
Steel Nick
by nickjs21 on Oct 23, 2009 5:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sure, if you want to look at it that way. That’s how I define a “quality at bat.” If you take a lousy approach to a pitcher and somehow get a hit, you have violated the approach. It’s better to ground out with a quality approach because you will eventually get your reward. This is how I interpret the Wedge worldview. Good outs are better than bad hits, because bad hits are not reproducible, I guess.
by odradek on Oct 23, 2009 9:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s better to ground out with a quality approach because you will eventually get your reward.
That’s true … but only to the extent that it’s true.
You do have to trust the approach above all else, but then again …
by Jay on Oct 23, 2009 9:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree. Getting on base is always better. It’s between two plate appearances that result in outs that the coaching staff distinguishes, “Did he at least approach that at-bat correctly?”
Steel Nick
by nickjs21 on Oct 24, 2009 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It seems that it did result in a hit about 27% of the time.
In the new Geico commercial, Marte sings "Let me be myself" on Wedge's front lawn (with the cavemen).
by V-Mart Shopper on Oct 23, 2009 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But those times don’t count because they don’t “prove” his point.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 23, 2009 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So what’s your point — you’d rather have Vlad up in that situation instead of Casey Blake because he’s a better hitter? That’s brilliant!
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 22, 2009 7:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Straining not to give the same reply as everyone else but something a little more nuanced.
Vlad is an extreme contact hitter, aside from his overall quality as a hitter, which itself is quite diminished at this point. The Indians have shown some sensitivity to players who have exceptional bat-to-ball ability, where stripping off some aggression is going to significantly inhibit the player’s raw hitting ability. Ronnie Belliard was a prime example of this. They just didn’t believe that Brandon Phillips, for an obvious counter-example, was one of those guys who can succeed that way. Few hitters can.
Blake is an extreme on the other side. I think working counts like crazy works well for him, i.e., it optimizes his ability into real production. But that doesn’t make him a great hitter. It just means he’s a decent hitter who gets to that result by way of a grinding approach.
by Jay on Oct 22, 2009 8:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m having a hard time finding something in your statement I can disagree with. My original point is that Tribe hitting under Wedge seemed to follow a “one size fits all” model. All hitters must bow their necks and put up a quality at bat. Maybe if Jhonny were allowed to be more aggressive—he does have a good eye—he would drive the ball more. How would Vladimir have performed under the Wedge regimen? He’s one of my favorite players, probably a Hall of Famer. He is quite unusual. He’s never struck out more than 95 times in a season. In four seasons, he’s walked more than he’s struck out. His season high in walks is 80. Would he be expected to conform?
by odradek on Oct 23, 2009 12:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I doubt Wedge would’ve tried to “change” him. That’s a pretty big assumption.
Victor was the closest thing the Tribe had to Guerrero in pure freak ability. And Wedge just let Victor go.
by TribeJay on Oct 23, 2009 12:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That’s a good point. Victor does have some of that wild-swinging thing working.
I also think batters like Casey get points for fouling off pitches and mounting a real batter with the pitcher when actually that’s not all that impressive.
by odradek on Oct 23, 2009 12:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wild-swinging, maybe. I was more referring to the ability to square up the baseball in a variety of different zones.
I understand your point, as Blake was less likely to eventually do something noteworthy than other big-time hitters would. But a 10-pitch at bat early in the game can mean the difference between a starter going 6 innings or 7, and that does have value.
It was always interesting to me that when you saw leaderboards of pitches per PA, Blake was always surrounded by All-Stars. Sort of a “what doesn’t belong in this picture?” But as Jay pointed out in some other thread, maybe Blake needed to hit that way just to be able to survive and become a major leaguer.
by TribeJay on Oct 23, 2009 12:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree about the pitch-count stuff, but I’d rather have a guy who averages 1.6 P/PA and hits line drives. It’s a small victory to point to pitch count. The value of getting into another team’s bullpen earlier is not to be dismissed, and I don’t want to suggest it’s nothing, but I think it’s grasping at straws. Blake probably does need to hit that way, and it’s worked for him more or less, but I don’t see it as heroic or valiant or particularly praiseworthy.
by odradek on Oct 23, 2009 1:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
TribeJay — right, Victor is the best example we’ve had on the team this decade. When a player’s natural eye and aggression pay off with stretches of hitting .370, you have to let him go, and the Indians do. They didn’t try to change Victor as a rookie, and I highly doubt anyone was going to mess with Vladimir after what he did in Montreal.
They did, however, look at BP and conclude that he wasn’t going to maximize his potential, or perhaps even survive in the majors, if he didn’t make adjustments. Given how miserable he was a rookie, it’s hard to fault them for making that conclusion.
by Jay on Oct 23, 2009 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I had the same thoughts during the Blake at bat. Was laughing to myself as I awaited the ground out.
by Roger Dorn on Oct 22, 2009 8:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Would you prefer “sucky” at bats instead?
Want out of Cleveland? Easy - mess with LeBron's entourage.
by woodsmeister on Oct 21, 2009 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, we need more “productive outs”.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 21, 2009 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bye bye Derek Shelton
http://blogs.tampabay.com/rays/2009/10/new-hitting-coach-will-be-derek-shelton.html
by The Grimace on Oct 21, 2009 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It does now. Shelton’s gone. I also thought they would bring him back, but I guess he wasn’t going to sit around waiting for them to decide, with the risk of ending up unemployed.
In the new Geico commercial, Marte sings "Let me be myself" on Wedge's front lawn (with the cavemen).
by V-Mart Shopper on Oct 21, 2009 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Shelton won’t be back with the Tribe as he just got hired by the Tampa Bay Rays as their hitting coach.
by SpringTrainingFun on Oct 22, 2009 8:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And don’t just give us any link… here’s the catch: It’s gotta be twitter.
Resident Take the Football References One Step Too Far Guy
by westbrook on Oct 22, 2009 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hiring Mattingly would be the equivalent of hiring Jeter 15 years from now.
by DixonCayne on Oct 21, 2009 8:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mattingly has better range.
Wait 'til next millennium!
by emd2k3 on Oct 21, 2009 9:44 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
If they are going to hire Mattingly, he will need to shave off those sideburns.
by LondonTribe on Oct 21, 2009 6:28 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
ha! i was just about to post that exact same image. awesome.
If you don't respect Aaron Laffey, I will fight you.
by Cap'n Snegiryov on Oct 21, 2009 8:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This must be the version Choo has seen. I wonder if he knows the ‘softball’ song?
by cleveland teamer on Oct 21, 2009 9:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
we don’t need no hippies in Cleveland. Although Mordecai Three Finger Brown might help bolster the staff….
by Ockus_NYC on Oct 21, 2009 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is all a red herring. It’s Fryman. I bet they have us right where they want us.
by tabler84 on Oct 21, 2009 8:52 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
As soon as we turn broadside, they’re going to fire 2 fish into us.
by elsandito on Oct 21, 2009 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Would that be a Fish Fry?
Is this the whale section?
by sarcasmdave on Oct 22, 2009 3:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If this man knocked on my door, I would not let him in.
He looks like he reeks of Yukon Jack.
Steel Nick
by nickjs21 on Oct 21, 2009 12:23 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
It’s Donnie Highball!
Wait 'til next millennium!
by emd2k3 on Oct 21, 2009 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
he looks like a cast member of “Deadliest Catch”
by APV on Oct 21, 2009 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yukon Jack? Then he’s hired in my book.
Chugga-chugga chugga-chugga, Choo Choo!
by USSChoo on Oct 21, 2009 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow. WOW. Talk about falling off the deep end in regards to epic facial hair. THIS:
is the ‘stache of someone who is ready to manage an MLB team. Whatever the heck that is above… well… forget it. He’s off the list.
by gte619n on Oct 21, 2009 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, sorry for that picture. Here’s one that might be a little less biased:
by gte619n on Oct 21, 2009 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Looks like a Wonder Bread “we’re not going to ante up the cash for the logo let’s just airbrush it out” baseball card.
Wait 'til next millennium!
by emd2k3 on Oct 21, 2009 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
you could have gone with historical accuracy and said Tetley Iced Tea.
You are reading my signature.
by rolub on Oct 22, 2009 9:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think it’s an L.A. thing… the whole “soul patch” … I think he just felt like an outsider and tried to fit in more in his new city. Gotta believe that Cleveland is a more stache-appropriate place. Hell, Wedge had one for a while. It’s precedent.
In the new Geico commercial, Marte sings "Let me be myself" on Wedge's front lawn (with the cavemen).
by V-Mart Shopper on Oct 21, 2009 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Donnie Baseball has gone totally LA on us while we weren’t looking.
Want out of Cleveland? Easy - mess with LeBron's entourage.
by woodsmeister on Oct 21, 2009 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Does that mean he’s no longer a “True Yankee”? Oh, wait, he never won a World Series, so he never was a “True Yankee” in the first place.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 21, 2009 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey, Indians fans, I came across an interesting little tidbit in a Joe Sheehan chat over at Baseball Prospectus yesterday. I’m not going to provide a link because I pay to access the site, and I think that means I’m not supposed to link to it.
The question was simply Manny Acta or Bobby Valentine?
His answer: Manny Acta. He’s the next Terry Francona.
Now I don’t know how you all feel about Joe Sheehan’s opinion-heck, I don’t know how accurate he’s been-I just like the way he writes. I do find it interesting that he said that.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
Oh, and could you get Mike Adams for the bullpen, please?
by jillsinmo on Oct 21, 2009 6:22 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
You know, I was actually thinking the same thing. Francona is a thoughtful guy who lost control of the clubhouse in Philly and Acta did the same in DC. That is as far as I got with it…
by stuart dean on Oct 21, 2009 7:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I also was starting to construct an Acta-as-Francona theory. And now I’m mad that I didn’t post it before anyone else.
by Jay on Oct 21, 2009 7:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was actually thinking that a few months ago. I even mentioned it to a cab driver.
by odradek on Oct 21, 2009 8:15 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I find myself regularly disagreeing with Sheehan, particularly when he ventures into Cleveland territory, but I agree with him here. I think if Acta was given a very solid team, like Francona has received, he would be considered a good manager.
by APV on Oct 21, 2009 8:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, as a rule, Sheehan knows a little less than he thinks he knows. Still a fan, though.
by Jay on Oct 21, 2009 8:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
haha yep. particularly when he gets questions about a team’s farm system or its young players, he’d be better off simply passing.
If you don't respect Aaron Laffey, I will fight you.
by Cap'n Snegiryov on Oct 23, 2009 8:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not sure that means anything. Terry Francona isn’t the next Terry Francona without the Red Sox.
Steel Nick
by nickjs21 on Oct 22, 2009 5:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
On a separate note….
I pulled the Phillips fanshot as it wasn’t going anywhere good. I ran it as it was news and it was Steve Phillips – an enemy to thoughtful baseball anywhere and held in low regard by all of us here. I would not have posted it if it were say, Jayson Stark. Apologies if I should have perhaps not run it in the first place.
by stuart dean on Oct 21, 2009 7:06 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Castro speculates that up to two additional people are finalists, one of which could be Clint Hurdle.
by Voltaire on Oct 21, 2009 11:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Just saw this in today’s Columbus Dispatch, but they didn’t specify Hurdle.
Wait 'til next millennium!
by emd2k3 on Oct 21, 2009 11:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mark Shapiro said Tuesday that there are two other potential candidates that might still emerge. It’s believed that former Rockies manager Clint Hurdle could be one of the two, though that’s not confirmed.
by Voltaire on Oct 21, 2009 11:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
“It’s believed” — by whom?
F’ing weaselly passive voice.
by Jay on Oct 21, 2009 11:07 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Clint Hurdle’s mother — she recommended him.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 21, 2009 11:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
“Could” also is a weasel word. “It could be true!”
by odradek on Oct 22, 2009 1:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hate when a paid journalist writes a sentence that says absolutely nothing.
by Jay on Oct 22, 2009 7:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He implied this is more of a contingency plan if they are not totally satisfied with the other set of finalists after all the interviews. Then they will bust out the 2 mystery men and get more perspective.
In the new Geico commercial, Marte sings "Let me be myself" on Wedge's front lawn (with the cavemen).
by V-Mart Shopper on Oct 22, 2009 1:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
In case anyone cares, Casey Blake just finished (in all likelihood) what must be one of the all-time worst LCS performances by a position player.
In 19 trips to the plate, two singles. That’s it, and he’s grounded into two double plays. In tonight’s elimination game, he hasn’t gotten the ball out of the infield, and he just left the bases loaded in a do-or-die situation in the 8th.
by Jay on Oct 21, 2009 11:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I dunno, I kinda feel bad for him. He wasn’t utilized properly in Cleveland, but I hold no grudges against him and generally want him to succeed — he’s a class act, as trite as that sounds. I mean, yeah, he’s getting paid, but I take no particular delight in his failures. Not sure why so many other people seem to.
"You are an LGT success story" -- Jay
by Turkmenbashi on Oct 22, 2009 12:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not taking much delight in it, it’s just kind of staggering.
by Jay on Oct 22, 2009 1:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Blake is the kind of guy you want at the plate when the game is on the line.
by odradek on Oct 22, 2009 1:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Provided you are a fan of the other team, I presume.
by bewwolv on Oct 22, 2009 1:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Blake was 27th in the majors this season in WPA. As would be expected, the WPA leaderboard is heavy with players who are in the postseason.
by odradek on Oct 22, 2009 1:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Stubhub thinks the top 60 are two guys per team. 30 and 31 are the same team; as are 1 and 60.
Resident Take the Football References One Step Too Far Guy
by westbrook on Oct 22, 2009 2:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I walked right into that one.
Blake had what appears to be a career year this year, at the age of 35. I think that says more about the NL West than it does about Casey Blake.
by bewwolv on Oct 22, 2009 10:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with you. Blake is evidence of clutch hitting. More properly, the lack thereof. He gets so tense smoke comes from his ears.
by odradek on Oct 23, 2009 12:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That’s why we can’t get anything better than a .280 hitter who hasn’t gotten a single hit in the majors.
Steel Nick
by nickjs21 on Oct 22, 2009 5:10 AM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
But has 2 minor league MVP awards. Hmmmm….
Wait 'til next millennium!
by emd2k3 on Oct 22, 2009 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This needs more recs
"You are an LGT success story" -- Jay
by Turkmenbashi on Oct 22, 2009 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Done.
The once and future
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Oct 22, 2009 7:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
To me, he didn’t look healthy at all. He sat out much of the last two weeks with that hamstring. It looked like he couldn’t drive the ball. On pitches away, he was just slapping at the ball in an effort to make contact.
That’s three straight LCS losses that Blake has experienced.
by TribeJay on Oct 23, 2009 12:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Should we be concerned by the comments of Nats fans on the SB nation blog for the nationals, and their negative comments/views of their former manager?
In the new Geico commercial, Marte sings "Let me be myself" on Wedge's front lawn (with the cavemen).
by V-Mart Shopper on Oct 22, 2009 1:26 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn’t. When Wedge’s name comes up for managerial consideration down the line, we probably won’t have great things to say.
Il faut d'abord durer.
by CU Adam on Oct 22, 2009 1:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We also don’t have as sucky players as they do, so our points would be more valid.
Chugga-chugga chugga-chugga, Choo Choo!
by USSChoo on Oct 22, 2009 3:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, but don’t we assume that our complaints about Wedge are actually valid? Why aren’t their claims about their ex-manager valid? And it’s not like they are delusional about the level of talent on their team. It seems that his problem may have been a “developmental” one… or that they regressed…
In the new Geico commercial, Marte sings "Let me be myself" on Wedge's front lawn (with the cavemen).
by V-Mart Shopper on Oct 22, 2009 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They may not recognize how awful their GM was.
by Jay on Oct 22, 2009 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I had read that site a bit before, there were some Bowden apologists. In summary, any Bowden apologist should be ignored.
by Roger Dorn on Oct 22, 2009 8:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Today I was called a Harry Truman apologist! That’s only because I argued he was a better president than Woodrow Wilson.
Wait 'til next millennium!
by emd2k3 on Oct 22, 2009 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Whoa! A haughty position! Tread carefully emd – the merits of pre-Cold War presidents is nearly beyond controversial.
by joeee on Oct 22, 2009 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The wounds are still fresh for me.
Steel Nick
by nickjs21 on Oct 22, 2009 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No way! You obviously aren’t aware of advanced metrics for analyzing Presidents. Woodrow Wilson had a career 148 OPS+ (Overall Presidential Skill), much better than Harry Truman’s 115.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 22, 2009 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, but those deadball era stats were all over the place.
by Jay on Oct 22, 2009 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The “idiot stats” say otherwise. And I’m a traditionalist when it comes to Presidential analysis.
In the new Geico commercial, Marte sings "Let me be myself" on Wedge's front lawn (with the cavemen).
by V-Mart Shopper on Oct 22, 2009 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are you tryin to say Woodrow Wilson can’t hit a curve ball?
Before taking Pro-Acta, please consult your doctor. Do not taunt Pro-Acta.
by Ockus_NYC on Oct 22, 2009 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Lastoria posted a pretty interesting article on his site about Valentines interview today, it’s worth going over and checking out.
by GoTribe028 on Oct 22, 2009 6:57 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I’d prefer a guy who is going to take the job seriously.
by ASP on Oct 22, 2009 7:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
hoynes made it sound like a disaster.
by emil minty on Oct 22, 2009 8:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Doesn’t seem to have changed the minds of anyone that reads Hoynes though.
by GoTribe028 on Oct 22, 2009 8:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And the Indians.com article, which I link to only because it has the most direct quotes from Valentine’s interview.
I mean, really. Either
a) The interview went well but Valentine has no interest
b) Shapiro was blunt at some point in the interview that Valentine doesn’t seem like a fit
c) Valentine made it clear during the interview that he had a very high price tag, meaning
c.1) Shapiro does not think Valentine is worth paying that much for
Steel Nick
by nickjs21 on Oct 22, 2009 9:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I read the same articles you read and all I can say is, HIRE BOBBY VALENTINE
by NickFantana on Oct 22, 2009 9:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m serious. It’s the antithesis of the polo-shirt mission statement BS that Jay tackled in the Fire Everyone series.
In short, he’s not a tightass like Wedge was, and that would be good for a bunch of players that seem to have a lot of trouble staying out of their own heads.
by NickFantana on Oct 22, 2009 9:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also! It doesn’t matter at all what he says to the media, it matters what he said to Shapiro and what he knows about baseball. In fact, several folks here have openly wished for someone who is a disaster in the media, to draw the attention away from the players.
by NickFantana on Oct 22, 2009 9:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But it wasn’t his reaction with them, it’s what he said. He doesn’t necessarily want this job, he wants a job, and he’s not sure it’s worth it if they’re going to rebuild. He can’t tell you a thing about the players and he doesn’t know enough about the team as someone interviewing for the job should. His words.
I don’t know how this jives/doesn’t jive with the mission statement, it just seems like a guy that doesn’t want to be here but will if you pay him. He also doesn’t know anything about this Mystery Cleveland Team’s opponents, either (I’d like to add at this point that he’s getting paid by ESPN to analyze baseball teams and their players).
Yes, it matters more what he said to Shapiro. But talking to the media was Shapiro’s idea, and I also can’t imagine he said anything better to Mark and his colleagues. And if he did, he has to know they’re going to see this interview.
I keep trying to picture this being an interview for any other job. The only place I see it working is Office Space. It’s possible Valentine is a genius, but it’s safer to assume otherwise.
Steel Nick
by nickjs21 on Oct 22, 2009 9:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
“First, Mr. Samir Naga… Naga… Naga… Not gonna work here anymore, anyway”
by JP_Frost on Oct 22, 2009 10:16 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think he was just being brutally honest more than indicating he didn’t want the Indians job. He’s saying that he doesn’t know very much about any MLB team becase he’s been in Japan the past five years, not just the Indians’ oppenents specifically. But you left you the part where he said he’d work “28 hours a day” to get caught up if he got the job, so as long as he’s ready to go by Opening Day next year then that’s all that matters.
Sure, maybe he just wants any MLB manager’s job and not just the Indians job specifically, but so what? Do we need to hire a guy who really wants to be in Cleveland, or is it okay to hire a guy who will be a good manager no matter where he’s working. I mean, let’s face it, as much as we love the Indians, there’s really nothing special about this team as its currently constructed which would make people rush to Shapiro begging for an interview. We’re probably going to have at least one or two seasons of losing before we can contend for the playoffs again.
Now, I’m not saying that I think Bobby Valentine should definitely be hired, because I like what I’ve heard about Acta, just that I don’t think these quotes should eliminate him from contention.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 23, 2009 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ehh, I think someone not being qualified is reason enough not to hire him, whether or not he’s being honest about it (of course you and I can disagree about his qualifications). I can’t go into an interview for a programming job being away from the specific software needed for that job for a decade and think it’ll be enough to say, “Sure, I might not know how to use the tools required for the job, but I promise I’ll figure it out after you hire me*.” It may be sincere but color me unimpressed (and badd).
Do we need to hire a guy who really wants to be in Cleveland, or is it okay to hire a guy who will be a good manager no matter where he’s working.
No, I agree with you. But I don’t think Valentine will be a “good manager no matter where.” You might, but our disagreement doesn’t matter much. If Shapiro is okay with Valentine’s lack of updated MLB knowledge and accepts his willingness to bone up, it all depends on how impressive the front office considers his resume to be. Those are a couple of big IFs, and frankly I think we might have better options.
*Unless it does work that way for programmers. In which case, get bent. Nerds.
Steel Nick
by nickjs21 on Oct 23, 2009 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I never hire skills. I hire aptitude. You can’t evaluate skills in an interview or on a résumé anyway.
by Jay on Oct 23, 2009 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well then, still, Valentine’s chances come from an evaluation we don’t know about from an interview we weren’t sitting in on.
Damn it.
Steel Nick
by nickjs21 on Oct 23, 2009 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Part of his evaluation will come from that, but I imagine only a small part is based on the interview. My feeling is that the totality of his accomplishments thus far, will play a bigger role.
by Roger Dorn on Oct 23, 2009 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So are you saying Acta’s screwed?
Steel Nick
by nickjs21 on Oct 23, 2009 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can’t agree with this. Evaluation of “accomplishments” is extraordinarily vague as regards managers. How could that be the main focus?
by Jay on Oct 23, 2009 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
To address both your and Nick’s points, I am not talking solely about W/L record, but taking the guy’s entire career into context. I understand the vagueness which is why more than just his record should be evaluated. I am saying that both Acta and Valentine have had enough time to demonstrate how they will manage, how they interact with the players, how they manage different cultures in the same clubhouse, etc. Perhaps “accomplishments” was the wrong word choice, but all of this should be looked at and should be far more important than the interview.
by Roger Dorn on Oct 23, 2009 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with this.
I think Valentine has to get the benefit of the doubt on cultural issues. I mean, the guy is zero-percent Japanese, and the Japanese players and even fans adore him.
by Jay on Oct 23, 2009 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I should have been more direct and said explicity that I think in several cases, Valentine was being glib and the answer he gave is not a direct and honest answer. I think instead of doing the corporatist double-speak thing, he just said things that made himself sound stupid.
Also, if he was as disinterested in this job as all these quotes make him seem, how on earth did he get a second interview after the phone thing? If he didn’t say anything better to Shapiro on the phone, there’s no way they fly him to Cleveland. Or is it that he aced the phone interview but then went on a two-day bender and ruined his chances with this in-person performance?
by NickFantana on Oct 23, 2009 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m torn as to why he’s here. Sometimes I think the Indians are straining to climb out of their little box, bringing in Valentine to challenge their assumptions as to what kind of person would be an asset. Say what you will, we should all agree that Valentine brings a wealth of experience and a completely different perspective. If he’s part of a monoculture, it sure as hell isn’t this one.
It could also be a PR thing, maybe even mutually expressed. It benefits both the Indians and Valentine for him to be a finalist. It puts him out there as an elite guy, but ultimately, everyone knows he’s ambivalent. At the same time, when the Indians hire Acta or Roenicke or whomever, they can say they picked him over Valentine.
by Jay on Oct 23, 2009 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
…and I hope they give him a long look.
by NickFantana on Oct 24, 2009 12:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think it is both.
This is a easy way to score PR points. And
bringing in Valentine to challenge their assumptions as to what kind of person would be an asset. Say what you will, we should all agree that Valentine brings a wealth of experience and a completely different perspective.
this is what I’m hoping. It is the best thing that can come out of this manager change.
by Ryan Kelsey on Oct 24, 2009 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He doesn’t necessarily want this job
Seemed to work out pretty well for Lou Brown wouldn’t you say?
by hans on Oct 23, 2009 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No matter who you like or how you look at it, I have to imagine the way they’re going about their search this time around is a marked improvement on the last time they were in this situation:
Shapiro: So… you agree with everything?
Wedge: Yes.
Shapiro: Deal!
Before taking Pro-Acta, please consult your doctor. Do not taunt Pro-Acta.
by Ockus_NYC on Oct 23, 2009 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
You know what, I’m just going to include the quotes.
Why do you want this job?
“I’m a baseball manager and they’re looking to hire one of those type guys,” Valentine said. “They have a Major League Baseball team and there are 30 of them in the world. I think those 30 people are special and lucky people. I consider myself lucky to be considered.”
For the record, I heard the first five minutes of this interview, and this was question number 1. The immediate follow up was, paraphrased, “But why do you want this job, with Cleveland?” He paused for maybe a full minute. Then didn’t answer the question and talked about his days managing in Texas or something.
More excerpts! This one’s good.
“From afar, I’ve had a chance of hearing about and observing the baseball culture of the Cleveland Indians,” Valentine said. “I got to see it first hand. I’m very impressed.”
On rebuilding:
“I don’t know that’s exactly the thing I want to do right now, either. I’m not sure that’s what I want to do, but, again, I haven’t been offered a job so I don’t have to decide whether or not I definitely want to do this.”
“I really am a lousy loser,” he said. “As a matter of fact, we talked about that in the interview process. If, in fact, all I was going to do was sign up to manage a losing team and all I was going to be hired for was to get one more win than another guy, I don’t think I’d be here. I think I’m being asked to be part of a process that might be lasting and might be special. I like special things.”
My favorite.
“I don’t know as much about Cleveland as someone interviewing for their manager’s job should,” Valentine said. “I could have crammed for the last six days and read every article and called every friend and got every little bit of information, just in case one of you guys asked me who the starting third baseman should be next year and I didn’t do it.”
“I can tell you I don’t know about the American League,” Valentine said. “I don’t know about the [AL] Central and I don’t know about the Indians, but I sure as heck am willing to learn and spend about 28 hours a day, if necessary, to know everything I could possibly know.”
Steel Nick
by nickjs21 on Oct 22, 2009 9:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for consolidating this. This whole thing is ridiculous. Imagine going for a job interview for any other job on the planet:
Interviewer: “Why are you interested in this job?”
Job Seeker: “There are only a few of these jobs out there, and I feel honored to be a finalist for this one.”
Interviewer: “But why are you interested in our company, specifically?”
Job Seeker: “Umm, (keep in mind the stigma of struggling for answers in a job interview), I have been working in another sector of this industry for the past several years, and I have heard people say good things about your company. After being here, I agree with them.”
Interviewer: “So what do you know about this part of the industry, and more specifically, our competitors?”
Job Seeker: “Well, I don’t know a whole lot. And I guess I could have studied up on it before this interview, but I didn’t. Believe me, though, if I get the job I will study really, really hard!”
Interviewer: “Our company may go through some growing pains over the next year or two. How do you feel about being a part of that?”
Job Seeker: “Well, I’m not really sure. I don’t really want to go through that, but, I haven’t been offered the job, so we will cross that bridge when we get to it.”
In any other context, this whole charade would be like a bad SNL skit.
by bewwolv on Oct 22, 2009 10:47 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
He must have a tom tom or he might not have gotten there…
by stuart dean on Oct 23, 2009 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is essentially my approach to grad school. Hey, I don’t know anything about the subject, but I’m willing to learn. Difference being that I’m looking to pay someone else an exorbitant sum of money.
"You are an LGT success story" -- Jay
by Turkmenbashi on Oct 23, 2009 12:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
28 hours a day
I despise impossible hyperbole. I want no part of this guy now.
by fwembt on Oct 23, 2009 12:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
At the very least he might as well go nuts and claim to study for a billion hours a day.
Steel Nick
by nickjs21 on Oct 23, 2009 5:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But what if he promises to give 110%?
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 23, 2009 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Only 26.4 hours per day. Not good enough.
by kennesawmountainwahoo on Oct 23, 2009 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Maybe he is going to study on the Moon, maybe he has a nice little dorm room up there we don’t know about, now couldn’t he?
by hans on Oct 23, 2009 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The most annoying thing is, why didn’t Shapiro expect this from Valentine? Why was this guy a ‘finalist’? Sheesh.
by cleveland teamer on Oct 23, 2009 12:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"I really am a lousy loser," he said. "As a matter of fact, we talked about that in the interview process. If, in fact, all I was going to do was sign up to manage a losing team and all I was going to be hired for was to get one more win than another guy, I don’t think I’d be here. I think I’m being asked to be part of a process that might be lasting and might be special. I like special things."
To me, this is a good quote. He ends it awkwardly (I like special things?), but the point he is making is very important. He is being asked to step in here and engage in proactive Player Development to mold a young team into a contender. He is not being asked to come and “hold down the fort as a losing team” for a few years until ready to compete and then be replaced by a guy who’s a winning candidate, or better, or just stay in the role but just know that you have no real purpose until we get a better roster. That is not what the tribe envisions for the managerial hire. And Valentine understands that and seems to enjoy the actual task in front of him, which is to develop a team.
In the new Geico commercial, Marte sings "Let me be myself" on Wedge's front lawn (with the cavemen).
by V-Mart Shopper on Oct 23, 2009 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nevermind, I think I retract this based on what he said next…
In the new Geico commercial, Marte sings "Let me be myself" on Wedge's front lawn (with the cavemen).
by V-Mart Shopper on Oct 23, 2009 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You mean where he said it’s not the manager’s job to develop young players, but the player’s job to develop themselves based on “guidance”?
by FredOx on Oct 23, 2009 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, but now that I think about it and his full answer there, I think I shouldn’t really take back the above.
In the new Geico commercial, Marte sings "Let me be myself" on Wedge's front lawn (with the cavemen).
by V-Mart Shopper on Oct 23, 2009 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ok, it stands. Valentine threw a curveball with that question when they asked how is he with young players and developing them? First he says, he thinks he’s had success with that, some would say a lot. Then he says, it’s not really the manager that develops players, the team has to draft right, develops in the system yadda yadda, the player has to develop himself and it’s him that is doing it, not the manager. Then he ended his answer by saying it would be a ‘stimulating opportunity’ to manage young players and develop them. So he framed it with what we wanted to hear, but inside his answer he was also downplaying the role of the manager in developing young players. And perhaps he’s right about that.
In the new Geico commercial, Marte sings "Let me be myself" on Wedge's front lawn (with the cavemen).
by V-Mart Shopper on Oct 23, 2009 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
d) Valentine read LGT first and wanted to seem like Ozzie.
(He did a terrible job if he went for D. I want no part of him now.)
Resident Take the Football References One Step Too Far Guy
by westbrook on Oct 22, 2009 11:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My two cents is that I hope the media interviews have no impact on the decision, and I don’t really think who came across better at it really has any bearing on who the better manager will be. That said, I would want Valentine to want to be the manager of this team if he were to be offered the job.
by Roger Dorn on Oct 23, 2009 9:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It would be funny if his interview with the media was completely different than what he said to the front office, and he purposely said outlandish things to throw the media for a loop and get the blogs going. That would be his way of saying to Shapiro, let me show you what you can expect as far as the media and my interaction with them is concerned… That being said, it seems this was truthful.
In the new Geico commercial, Marte sings "Let me be myself" on Wedge's front lawn (with the cavemen).
by V-Mart Shopper on Oct 23, 2009 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yea, maybe he was giving a little taste for Shapiro as to what will come with him as manager. Contradicting himself, etc.
I found the headline amusing, can’t remember which source, that said Acta impresses, Valentine Bombs…but it was referring to the press conference. That headline is really misleading because in no way does it reflect the actual interview itself or give us any impression as to how they fared with Shapiro.
by Roger Dorn on Oct 23, 2009 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How different from the press conference do we think the interview was? If anything, the softball questions he was getting in the press conference had to be easier to handle than the questions Shapiro was asking. The fact that he bombed those doesn’t lead me to believe that he dazzled Shapiro with his answers to more difficult questions.
Also, it was mentioned over a month ago that the candidates would answer questions in front of the media, and I am sure Valentine was informed of that in his first interview as well. There is simply no excuse for being that unprepared.
by bewwolv on Oct 23, 2009 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And lets keep in mind the press conference was the front office’s idea as part of the interviewing process.
Steel Nick
by nickjs21 on Oct 23, 2009 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let’s. Let us.
Go Tribe.
Steel Nick
by nickjs21 on Oct 23, 2009 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t necessarily view the interview process as something to ace. Giving the best answer in an interview or to the press to me does not indicate that he will be the best guy for the job. I am hoping and assuming that Shapiro understands this as well. The question is, then, why conduct the interview in the first place? I view it as a means to get the guy’s general feelings on how to manage a team and his overall desire to be the coach of the Indians.
by Roger Dorn on Oct 23, 2009 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
At this point I just pray Houston either doesn’t offer Acta the job or (better yet) he turns it down and accepts the Indians’ offer.
Steel Nick
by nickjs21 on Oct 22, 2009 9:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Pluto:
Valentine vowed not to let anyone throw 160 pitches in Japan, but seemed to think up to 135 a game could be acceptable for some starters in certain circumstances.
Ehhhhhhhhhh I’m not a fan.
Steel Nick
by nickjs21 on Oct 23, 2009 5:18 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Acta can cite you stats on how often a guy scores from first with no outs vs how often a guy scores after being bunted to second. Valentine doesn’t know what OPS is. Now maybe I’m too focused on stats, but I know which I prefer.
by FredOx on Oct 23, 2009 9:40 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think this might be an area where a coalescing LGT consensus is a bad thing.
by NickFantana on Oct 23, 2009 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well my point wasn’t even a stats thing. I just don’t like the idea that he might push a lot of developing pitchers.
Steel Nick
by nickjs21 on Oct 23, 2009 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And I’m not really talking just about you and Fred or the stats thing. I was just making the point that I’ve read a lot of positive comments about Acta and not much other than the quote about bunting to back it up.
For me, I’m not going to talk myself into any of them. We can’t be privy to the interview process, so the best course is to wait until next spring and see how they run the team. Just like we do in the NFL….whoops.
by NickFantana on Oct 23, 2009 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s always a good thing to be aware of the overall statistical history of past decisions. It doesn’t imply that he’ll be a slave to the numbers. It means he’s a student of the game and isn’t too lazy to investigate different ways of seeing the game. I am not a believer in “Once you go stat, you’ll never go back”.
by elsandito on Oct 23, 2009 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Up to 135 a game could be acceptable for some starters in certain circumstances.
I can think of certain circumstances where this would be acceptable. Say you had C.C. Sabathia for only a few more starts, and you knew he was going to cash in with the Yankees. Why not run him up to 135 pitches?
by odradek on Oct 23, 2009 9:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Brewers basically did this, although moreso with days of rest than pitch counts.
by Jay on Oct 23, 2009 9:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Acta please! I haven’t read one thing that would indicate he isn’t perfect for this job.
by jakesinger777 on Oct 23, 2009 10:29 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
In a way, it seems like this interview was “Bobby being Bobby.” He is a likable personality, which I had forgotten (I was not excited about his candidacy originally), but will the front office want something like that?
His admitted unfamiliarity with stats also hurts, but unfamiliarity is not necessarily an unwillingness to employ such stats in his decision-making once explained to him or once he learns what they are.
In the new Geico commercial, Marte sings "Let me be myself" on Wedge's front lawn (with the cavemen).
by V-Mart Shopper on Oct 23, 2009 11:22 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Shapiro: Do you know what VORP is?
Valentine: Sure, it’s that trail mix stuff with peanuts and raisins and M&Ms, right? I love that stuff. Are we going to have that in the dugout? Did we get a VORP sponsorship? That would be cool. I could totally get behind that.
Want out of Cleveland? Easy - mess with LeBron's entourage.
by woodsmeister on Oct 23, 2009 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
To say he bombed is an overreaction. The video that is currently up on indians.com presents him in a fairly good light – he thought it was somewhat innovative that the Indians made him talk to the media directly after his interview. Of all the things he said in the process, the only one I really can’t defend is that he came out and said ‘I could have crammed for 6 hours but chose not to’. That’s sort of ridiculous. Why not? What the hell else are you doing? I suppose he’s trying to say ‘hey, I could have pretended that I know all these things just from watching baseball, but really it would have just been a result of cramming, and I thought that would be disingenuous’, but perhaps he could have found a better way to express that.
by jakesinger777 on Oct 23, 2009 11:41 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
maybe it’s a silly thing to say out loud, but do you think Shapiro expects anyone but Lovullo to be able to converse on a high level about this organization? isn’t that what the interview process is for? to use the “real world” job interview analogy mentioned above: if you’re sitting across from your potential boss, it’s much more welcomed to pepper him with questions and show interest than to regurgitate a couple nights’ worth of Google searches in hopes of impressing him with cursory knowledge.
Before taking Pro-Acta, please consult your doctor. Do not taunt Pro-Acta.
by Ockus_NYC on Oct 23, 2009 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
maybe they’re not impressed with any of them. they just got permission to talk to Ron Roenicke.
http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/view/124835-indians-talking-to-angels-coach
Before taking Pro-Acta, please consult your doctor. Do not taunt Pro-Acta.
by Ockus_NYC on Oct 23, 2009 12:22 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Rumor had it that there might be 2 additional unnamed candidates as part of the search, so Roenicke might be one. Clint Hurdle just maybe* maybe* could* be the other
- - using some of those fancy journalism words.
Wait 'til next millennium!
by emd2k3 on Oct 23, 2009 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think folks are dazzled by the Mattingly legacy, and by the Valentine name. These are brands, certainly. But they have little to do with managing a sports team.
> I remember conversations I had with Otto Graham when he and I were working on a book about his time in the NFL, and then as coach and general manager. He was such a gifted athlete that he had no understanding at all, he admitted, why it was that “ordinary” athletes couldn’t do what he did. That is, for example, throw a pass to a particular place. This was why, in his view, he was a bad coach.
> I have no idea whether Manny Acta can succeed as manager. But I wouldn’t hold his Washington record against him. Look at Casey Stengel. He was a genius, by consensus, as manager of the Yankees, and a know-nothing as Mets manager. A kind of reverse about what Mark Twain said about his father — when he was 14, Sam Clemens thought his father was ignorant. By the time he was 21, he was amazed at how much his father had learned in seven years.
> The problem with Acta is PR. The team is down now. Fan interest is ebbing. But winning is what will bring people back, not a “big name” who is no better than a small name.
by just a bit outside on Oct 23, 2009 3:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Good point about Stengel. One hopes the media will receive Acta with that kind of perspective. I agree that hiring him is a PR problem — he isn’t going to convince very many fans that the Indians have turned the page into a potentially brighter future, and he’ll be broadly disrespected if he doesn’t manage a major improvement in year one. Roenicke is a more interesting pick in that regard, as he’s not saddled with that awful Nats record.
Is the Graham book still in print?
by Jay on Oct 23, 2009 8:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
“Fired Nationals manager” just doesn’t sound like a great sell to the average fan.
by Voltaire on Oct 23, 2009 9:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How about “Manny is coming to Cleveland”? I’ll bet the fans would love that one.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 23, 2009 9:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But winning is what will bring people back, not a "big name" who is no better than a small name.
Agreed. Fans will clamor over a new manager, whether positively or negatively, for about six weeks and then forget about it. No manager is going to affect the bottom line. The only objective here is to hire the manager who will maximize wins and thus maximize profits.
by afh4 on Oct 24, 2009 12:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought people were dazzled by Mattingly’s success as a hitting instructor and all the praise he got for his work in NY and in LA, and for his Joe-Torre-seal-of-approval. But yeah I guess his playing career doesn’t hurt either.
In the new Geico commercial, Marte sings "Let me be myself" on Wedge's front lawn (with the cavemen).
by V-Mart Shopper on Oct 24, 2009 8:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
These media interviews strike me as stupid. Shapiro and the whole FO has shown such a level of disinterest in cultivating anything resembling a compelling relationship with the media over the past 7 years that to ask candidates to do this now, directly after they interview, just seems ridiculous.
You’ve just gone through an extended interview process, probably hours long, and then you’re asked to answer questions asked by Paul Hoynes. In the miniscule media market of Cleveland. How seriously are you supposed to take that?
Valentine makes a couple of really solid jokes. Good deliveries, nice timing. I don’t care what he says about OPS, I’m fine with him as long as Shapiro makes the directives clear. If Valentine recognizes that he’s to manage personalities and player technique, not strategy (where he ought to play to the book), he’d be fine.
by afh4 on Oct 24, 2009 12:14 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I agree with this and I think Valentine showed a little irritation with the whole thing in his interview. It seems like an awful lot to ask from a person and, honestly, I don’t like that they did it.
by NickFantana on Oct 24, 2009 12:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m ok with it from the perspective of it simply as a “Are you going to be a constant PR nightmare?” test.
by Voltaire on Oct 24, 2009 12:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was amused at the reactions and conclusions drawn on the media interviews alone.
by Roger Dorn on Oct 24, 2009 1:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
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