Obviously, [the candidate must be] a good communicator, internally and externally. Somebody who can effectively demonstrate good awareness and the ability to communicate across a broad spectrum of players, cultures and personalities.
....
I would certainly like that manager to have some defined thoughts about managing the bullpen.
over 2 years ago
xrickx
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[translation]
1) The new manager must not dislike Jhonny Peralta for no apparent reason.
2) Somebody tell me how to not construct a historically bad bullpen.
Peralta certainly received more public criticism from Wedge than any other player. But if you take all the positive comments made, particularly in post-game interviews, you’d probably have the opinion that Wedge liked Peralta very much.
“Culture” suggests an issue in dealing with non-American players. Perhaps an inability to communicate with Latin players?
I’m teasing. Sort of.
Granted, we don’t know the dynamic in the clubhouse. Victor just praised Wedge quite heavily during the last series. But Victor spoke English well enough to do his own interviews. I don’t know if Wedge would receive the same praise from those players who aren’t yet comfortable speaking English (see: Fausto Carmona, although I’d bet he’s willing to attempt English with his peers moreso than the media). It might not be fair—Wedge knew Victor much longer and it’s never been an open criticism that he was culturally insensitive. Choo thrived. Raffy Perez did, if only for a bit. Ditto with Fausto in 2007.
You probably can raise an eyebrow at his questionable affection for the likes of Casey Blake, Jamie Carroll, Todd Hollandsworth, David Dellucci, and Trot Nixon . Or maybe he was just using the pieces he was given. After all, he found a way to bench LaPorta. And never seems to have nice things to say about Jensen Lewis.
Still, maybe a communication issue is partly to blame for the inability of the staff to address the struggles of Peralta, Marte, Carmona, and Perez. Giving instruction in Spanish won’t flip a switch back to success, but perhaps it’s part of the problem.
Victor was obviously a fan of Wedge, and vice versa. Victor was a leader in the clubhouse, apparently. The Cubs, back in the glorious days of Sammy Sosa, were divided between Anglos and Latinos. There were two camps in that locker room. A fairly common divide, I would imagine, in baseball. Probably the most significant one, given the paucity of African-American players these days. Wedge obviously had his personality issues, and these were not ethnically determined. He is free to dislike Jensen Lewis (if he in fact does) regardless of Lewis’ culture.
I think Wedge had a difficult time relating to the Latin players. Victor is an exception, of course, and probably served as an interlocutor between Wedge and the Latin players. With Victor gone, maybe Wedge lost the room. The Latin players must look at his treatment of Marte and his public trashing of Peralta and wonder. Latin baseball culture may have been puzzling to Wedge, who argues for grinding and bowing your neck, neither qualities reminiscent of Tito Fuentes.
by odradek on Oct 8, 2009 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
i think wedge had a difficult time relating to certain personality types only. i don’t think it was a race thing.
It’s often pointed out that Wedge seemed to adore Ben Francisco … but then again, Francisco went to high school with Garko, so there isn’t exactly a cultural chasm there.
by Jay on Oct 8, 2009 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions
i just think it’s a slippery slope when trying to find patterns of race here. peralta and marte are latin. phillips and bradley were black. “oh, nevermind victor, jensen, and francisco, they are the exception.” doesn’t float with me. what about ronnie belliard or matt lawton? we tend to focus on a handful of guys that stick out that he didn’t get along with because of information that is public about those cases, but he’s had hundreds of players and i’ve go to think there is no pattern of like-dislike when it comes to race. but i do bet there is one with regards to certain personality traits.
I don’t think anybody seriously believes Wedge is racist. That’s an argument we don’t need to dispel, because there’s no real concern that it’s an issue.
What we might believe more seriously is that perhaps he has trouble communicating with other humans who are dissimilar to him. And if that’s the honest criticism, then it means he’s just being labeled a human being. And it’s probably a subconscious thing more than anything — stay in the zone in which you feel most comfortable. That’s expected behavior from a social context.
What we expect from managers is the ability to communicate with everyone. It’s a requirement to be more evolved. And sometimes, a language barrier might be just too much to overcome. But I don’t thing language is the dividing line. I don’t think culture is the diving line. Like you said, it’s more a personality thing. The connection is that language and culture have serious influence on a personality, and perhaps that’s where this all comes full circle.
What I’m getting at is, there may not be a race thing, but that doesn’t mean that there isn’t a cultural divide. Just about everybody (at last in major cities) faces moments when they just don’t get the way someone else is behaving because the cultural expectations are so different. That has nothing to do with being racially biased, none whatsoever.
I will continue to point out, in all of these conversations, that Milton Bradley should be separated out from any attempt to generalize or categorize. Milton Bradley is in his own category, i.e., people with severe anger management issues that have produced felony charges. That isn’t a racial thing, and it isn’t a cultural thing, either.
Wedge’s seeming inability to communicate with or get through to Phillips, Marte, Peralta, etc. has nothing to do with Milton Bradley, who has been and will continue to be a liability and a distraction on every club.
by Jay on Oct 8, 2009 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions
okay, i’m seeing the culture side more that the race side. but i still am not sure that’s the crux of it all. how different is victor’s culture from marte’s? jensen’s from garko’s?
Victor could be an exception in a way that is the equal and opposite of Milton Bradley. He is just a charming, great person that transcends cultural divides.
okay. how different is valbuena’s from marte’s?
i guess the kicker is that wedge can’t bridge the gap and do the transcending from his side of the river.
Victor is the exception to rule but Valbuena does seem to be the one that breaks the rule. I didn’t expect Wedge to handle him in such a manner and am glad he did.
Chugga-chugga chugga-chugga, Choo Choo!
this is exactly where i start to not buy this line of thinking what’s the rule, then? “this guy’s an exception, that guy breaks the rule, don’t mind that fellow behind the curtains…”
i don’t like when any broad/blanket statement that is loosely based on a few examples gets to ignore more examples to the contrary than the ones that formed the rule in the first place…
Did Valbuena really get treated much differently?
I understand the need to rest your players, but Valbuena was platooned in a 97-loss season. Why in the hell would it not behoove the Indians to let Valbuena get some ABs against lefties? He got 39ABs against LHP.
Why? So Jamey Carroll can, for the second straight season, can prove that he’s a valuable back-up? In 2008, he played 3B at the expense of Andy Marte. In 2009, he played 2B at the expense of Valbuena.
Did the young guys struggle? Sure. But what’s the difference between 97 and 98 or 99 losses? Aside from two losses—-nothing. It was again Wedge playing favorites with a utility infielder who, by the way, is 35 and a free agent.
by xrickx on Oct 8, 2009 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think Valbuena was treated vastly different than say, Marte. Valbuena was hardly hitting at all for awhile, but Wedge stuck with him, even on a platoon basis, where I don’t feel like he stuck with Marte or others. Maybe I’m wrong, but that’s how I see it.
Chugga-chugga chugga-chugga, Choo Choo!
You’d have stuck with Valbuena, too, if your alternative was seeing Barfield’s tired ass every day. Don’t forget, much of that sticking-with-Luis period coincided with a trip to the DL for Cabrera.
With Marte, Wedge had the alternative to stick with Blake and live with Michaels (or whoever) in the outfield, and for whatever reason, he found that more palatable. Later on, he had Carroll as an attractive alternative. Carroll was not a factor with Valbuena because at that point, Wedge needed both of them.
by Jay on Oct 8, 2009 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions
this is exactly where i start to not buy this line of thinking what’s the rule, then? "this guy’s an exception, that guy breaks the rule, don’t mind that fellow behind the curtains…"
I appreciate what you’re getting at, but, well, you’re still wrong.
The point isn’t (and never was) that Wedge has trouble dealing with people of a certain culture in blanket and uniform way. The point was (and still is) that Wedge seems to have more trouble communicating with players where there is a cultural divide.
You’re always going to have exemplary players of every culture who aren’t any trouble simply because, well, they’re not any trouble. But with other players who are more of a coaching challenge, it’s not acceptable to only be able to deal effectively with the ones who are American.
by Jay on Oct 8, 2009 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions
i still think the pattern is tenuous at best. if he does deal with someone of a different culture effectively, it’s chalked up as all thanks to that player’s exceptional people skills. what about when the player is “american” and he can’t deal with him anyway (barfield, jensen, and recently shoppach)?
It seems like you’re saying that we’re equating a player sucking with Wedge having a communication issue with that player. That isn’t the argument. Beyond performance issues, we have specific reason to believe there were communication issues with certain players. There is no doubt that Barfield struggled far worse than Peralta, but the communication issues reportedly were entirely with Peralta, not Barfield. That’s where the cultural discussion comes from.
Not to put too fine a point on it, but Valbuena is Venezuelan. Victor took care of him, made sure he played right and took care of business, presumably. And put in a good word for him with the boss. Marte, Peralta, Perez, Betancourt, Carmona are Dominicans and Puerto Ricans. Caribbean players.
My mistake: Betancourt—who Wedge admitted he had problems getting through to—is also from Venezuela.
Betancourt, at least on the surface, appears to be someone who I could describe as “difficult.”
Strong-headed, perhaps? Opinionated?
Wait 'til next millennium!
Great story I heard once about the Cubs when Wood and Sosa were on the team. Sosa used to blast salsa music on his jukebox all the time, and everyone was getting tired of it. One day Wood took a baseball bat, walked over to the jukebox, and smashed it into pieces. He told Sosa, “Turn this f’ing sh off.”
You can get away with that stuff when you’re pitching the way he did back then.
"Lotta heart in Cleveland." - Ian Hunter
by Denver Tribe Fan on Oct 8, 2009 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions
With the way Fausto has pitched, can he really be upset with anyone at this point? If anything he should be thankful he is still making 5 million next year and will have a place in the starting rotation despite his performance.
In the new Geico commercial, Marte sings "Let me be myself" on Wedge's front lawn (with the cavemen).
by V-Mart Shopper on Oct 8, 2009 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Or whatever he’s making…. Not sure if it was 5 mil or something less…
In the new Geico commercial, Marte sings "Let me be myself" on Wedge's front lawn (with the cavemen).
by V-Mart Shopper on Oct 8, 2009 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s irrelevant.
The question is not: Who has a right to be mad?
The question is: Why has Fausto not recaptured even the slightest semblance of what he has previously shown. We’re not talking about why a guy didn’t reach his potential. This is something we’ve seen before.
The answer is, in part: It’s a difficult game. Adjustments must be made. The responsibility ultimately falls on the player, but those with experience, wisdom, and a proficiency in whatever aspect of the game is at issue (managers, coaches) can help the player make adjustments and achieve whatever their ability allows.
I would guess she’s a fan of high socks, but she’d have to ask her producers.
by fleerdon on Oct 8, 2009 8:24 PM EDT up reply actions
No idea who this is.
No, not you. Your helmet!
by PatBordersHelmet on Oct 8, 2009 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions
This.
My right-clicking aptitude is greater than westy assumes. That doesn’t change the fact that I needed to right-click, and that I still didn’t know who the person was by name. I’m not trying to find out who she is, just pointing out that (possibly many others and) I have no idea who she is on sight.
by Jay on Oct 8, 2009 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Okay, this young lady’s name is Lauren Conrad. She’s an actress, late of Laguna Beach and The Hills, neither of them shows I would expect to be much cared about by LGT posters.
The joke dates to this FanShot, in which I first suggested that Ms. Conrad should be our new manager. I’m saying, by that joke, not that I think she’s the hottest thing on two legs or whatever, but that I have no preference for our next manager, because I know essentially nothing about any of these people. I do not know Larry Bowa from Joey Cora from Tom Runnells from Clint Hurdle from whatsisface in Boston from … Lauren Conrad. And I’m implying that, generally speaking, none of you people do either. It’s my own way of saying, gosh, what a useless topic to discuss.
It would also amuse me to break the gender barrier in baseball with a minor celebrity totally unrelated to baseball.
Now that we’ve totally deflated the joke, here’s another picture of Lauren Conrad.
by fleerdon on Oct 8, 2009 8:23 PM EDT up reply actions
ESPN has done us all a favor and compiled a book of all the managerial candidates (Insiders only – hint: they’re all nekkid).
Am I the only one who isn’t remotely attracted to this girl? I think its because when I look at here I hear things such as.. “like, OMG, what?!”
/vomit
Chugga-chugga chugga-chugga, Choo Choo!
So if she came up to you and said “Oh, Mr. USSChoo I’m so lonely, will you buy me a drink?” You’d say no? (Marital status and the like aside).
I’m not sure what I said that would make you think I don’t. If he attracts cute girls, good for him. If he can say no based on a personal thing, good for him. I’m not trying to be misogynistic and I’m certainly not trying to insult our new manager.
And this has gotten way off track.
But what if she came up and said “Oh, Mr. USSChoo I’m so lonely, will you buy me a drink and help me decide whether Joe Smith is effective after one inning of work or not?”
Then I may have judged her wrong, but I’m still not buying her a drink.
Chugga-chugga chugga-chugga, Choo Choo!
If she’s attractive and intelligent then she has used these assets to acquire wealth of some sort, she can afford her own drink.
Chugga-chugga chugga-chugga, Choo Choo!
To a point, I agree with USSChoo.
Oh, Mr. USSChoo I’m so lonely, will you buy me a drink?
That quote smacks of desperation and an utter lack of confidence. Not my type of woman.
Wait 'til next millennium!
Seems to me like neither one of you gets it, but you both think about it a whole lot.
by Jay on Oct 9, 2009 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I’m awestruck that two guys on an internet message board are puffing their chests because they’d refuse to buy a drink for a good-looking woman (assuming both parties are single).
Steel Nick
I think that’s what fwembt meant with “marital status and the such aside.”
Everybody should get ice cream every day.
Who’s puffing their chest? This makes me no better than anyone else, just pointing out that I feel I’m always different than most guys when it comes to these types of women.
Chugga-chugga chugga-chugga, Choo Choo!
I see. And how old were you when you first realized that you were different?
by Jay on Oct 9, 2009 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions
and by “nope,” you must mean either
a.) “nope” I’m not at the bar
b.) “nope” I can’t breath
c.) “nope” my heart isn’t beating
d.) “nope” I’m buying drinks for Ms. Alba, whom I’ve met a few minutes prior.
Let’s be real, guys. This ain’t a bar girl.
A.) I’m at the bar
b.) I breath fine
c.) my hearts still beating
d.) I’m drinking with the girl that has interests of substance and doesn’t look like plastic
Chugga-chugga chugga-chugga, Choo Choo!
Suprisingly, LC is one of the more ‘real’ looking people on MTV. Unlike her counterpart Audrina Partridge.
Wait 'til next millennium!
I’m still astounded. In what way is anything there “gross?” Is it linking to the same picture for both of us?
In the new Geico commercial, Marte sings "Let me be myself" on Wedge's front lawn (with the cavemen).
by V-Mart Shopper on Oct 12, 2009 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Leaving aside the part where USSChoo is doing some over-the-top posturing … it is not really appropriate for guys to sit around critiquing women’s physiques on this site. It’s just not something we do here.
Thank you for reminding me to make note of this.
I’d certainly buy AP a drink. And if LC approached me with her, I’d buy them both drinks. Then I’d completely ignore AP and chat it up with LC a little in order to get AP interested in me.
In the new Geico commercial, Marte sings "Let me be myself" on Wedge's front lawn (with the cavemen).
by V-Mart Shopper on Oct 9, 2009 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m so lonely, will you buy me a drink?
This right here is the question though. I think I’d be nice enough to buy her the drink and chat briefly and that’s about it.
Resident Take the Football References One Step Too Far Guy
Tell me, how does Albert Belle not fit the bill here?
Nobody made an impression on his teammates – gringo, Latin, Mormon, whatever – like Albert did.
Resident LGT results-oriented boob.
Do you mean an actual impression? Like knuckles?
Steel Nick
by nickjs21 on Oct 8, 2009 8:40 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Everytime i see Fernando Vina on TV, part of me hopes Joey will come running out with his patented forearm shiver.
As General Manager of this team, I demand to know when I'm getting a start.
by bigbrabbs on Oct 8, 2009 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Shapiro didn’t say too much, but he was a little more forthcoming than I thought he would be.
I might be guilty of just assuming Jack Z in Seattle knows what he’s doing based on sound bites and their turnaround in record, but I’d like to know what process he took and what he liked about the guys that didn’t end up getting the job.
Steel Nick
I wonder if “I’m not looking for short-term popularity” is a signal that they’re actually not looking at Farrell.
"Lotta heart in Cleveland." - Ian Hunter
by Denver Tribe Fan on Oct 8, 2009 11:11 AM EDT reply actions
I interpret that line as being about bigger names (Valentine et al.)
by cleveland teamer on Oct 8, 2009 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Since canning Wedge was in part a concession to irate fans, the fans shouldn’t expect that the next hire will also be based on their fickle demands for a “favorite” or big name the fans all know. Shapiro will hire based on who he thinks will do the best job and perhaps be the best “partner,” not based on pop appeal. Hopefully, that is the case.
In the new Geico commercial, Marte sings "Let me be myself" on Wedge's front lawn (with the cavemen).
by V-Mart Shopper on Oct 8, 2009 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions
SInce I don’t dare make this its own fanshot …. here is another attempt at a TH ….
Come one, come all …. we know how boring the color choices were, so new order your Designer Snuggie in Zebra or Leopard print!!!!!
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